Strange DJ Flight Path

[Soulman]

Hey guys,

As a keen aviator I'm always on the look out for the domestic and odd international jet flying over.

I live in Dimboola, in western Victoria, about halfway between Melbourne and Adelaide. I see the majority of the domestic traffic on the MEL-ADL corridor (weather permitting) and I know to look north of my town for ADL-MEL flights (i.e towards Hopetoun and the Big Desert) and to look south for MEL-ADL flights (i.e towards Hamilton and the Grampians).

This afternoon I gazed skyward, at approximately 5:45pm and noticed a jet high over my house. I thought this was strange as I had never seen it before, so I grabbed the binoculars and managed to make it out quite clearly as a Virgin aircraft. Bright red with a nice set of winglets!

The aircraft proceeded tracking SSE over my home and commenced a sweeping left hand turn shortly afterwards to ESE. Some time later it was seen to be tracking NW (toward Sydney perhaps) before I lost it in cloud.

Now, I'm puzzled as to why the aircraft did this. It was relatively clear at the time as was the path which they would typically follow. At first I thought it may have been Adelaide - Hobart, but then it began tracking towards what I thought was Melbourne and then changed again toward Sydney.

Why did he come so far south if his destination was north?

Certainly would have burnt a few extra kilos of JA-1!

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Soulman.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

May have initially been getting vectored sth and then nth for sequencing. If it was a clear day rules out weather avoidance, so vectors for sequencing would be my bet.

[Soulman]

Just seems strange that it came so far south initially, if indeed it was heading for SY. From a rough map, I'd say he's deviated around 200-250km south of the ADL-SYD path (that is 'as the crow flies' of course).

I've heard of sequencing before, but having never seen it from my backyard before, I thought this was a little extreme.

Soulman.

[contrails03]

Hi soulman, I recon it would have been weather avoidance. You said you lost him in the clouds. We quite often tend to avoid cloud at high levels if we can as it can be a bit turbulent.

I'd say he was a ADL MEL flight who had diverted right of track, and then maybe paralleled track then when he was clear of most of the weather he was recleared direct to a position called chapi, which is north of Melbourne for a star called the Arbey 1 arrival.

Hope this helps, and next time I divert, I'll look down and wonder if I'll make it on pprune :p

Conny

[Soulman]

Thanks for the reply contrails03.

I'm sure the beancounters at Virgin would be p*ssed if they read this!

As for you getting a mention on PPRuNe the next time you fly over - unless you pull a barrel roll or write SOULMAN with your contrail - it ain't happenin!

LoL.

Just toot the horn next time you head over!

Cheers,

Soulman.

[Prop's ????]

I'm sure the beancounters at Virgin would be p*ssed if they read this!

Why would they be p*ssed?
I’m sure they would be allowing for flight diversions due weather or traffic delays. It happens a lot and from what you have mentioned it wouldn't have cost that much.
:ok:

[Kaptin M]

The aircraft proceeded tracking SSE over my home and commenced a sweeping left hand turn shortly afterwards to ESE. Some time later..tracking NW (toward Sydney perhaps) before I lost it in cloud.probably running ahead of sked and decided to lose some time :rolleyes: ........either that, or they were probably lost!! :mad: Any ideas? Yeah...you're a wally of the first order. :O

[Cactus Jack]

Many here would have the same opinion of you Kapt M. After that last post of your's, I certainly do. YOU are the WALLY.

This guy was asking a question. Let him get an answer, without calling him names. Jeezus, grow up.

[Soulman]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Kap - sorry for asking the question. If only everyone was as intelligent as you... ;)

Soulman.

[Hempy]

Yeah...you're a wally of the first order.

I'd say you're an arrogant smart-:mad: of the first order (and I reckon I'm not the only one)

[EPIRB]

Soulman, if you get a scanner you should be able to pick up the area frequency on 127.4 as it gets retransmitted from Mt. William.

[Kaptin M]

To the uninitiated - of which there appears to be a preponderance (except for ANSA and EPIRB) - there are very few reasons for a commercial flight, and especially an airline aircraft, to make what Soulman initimated was effectively a 180.

ANSA suggested one of those - traffic sequencing, which is quite feasible. From my limited flying experience, I might have thought that had the a/c been SYD bound, then speed reduction would have been a more effective and less costly option at this stage of the flight. But then again, I am not aware of what other factors were involved.

Somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I proffered that the aircraft may have been "probably running ahead of sked and decided to lose some time", ie. instructed to enter a hold, and to add further salt to the wound, "either that, or they were probably lost!!" - which might well have been the case :uhoh: but then again they might possibly have just been making a procedural entry into the hold.
After all, it's highly unlikely that any standard routing (except through Russian/Erjan airspace) is going to entail near 180 degree turns.................is it??!!

If you were offended by being called a "wally", Soulman, then I suggest that perhaps you should think the realities of the situation through next time.

Cactus and Hemp....what can I say? :confused:
I guess neither of you fly professionally - but if you do, learn to think OUTSIDE the box, if you're hoping to progress to the next step. Until then, keep smiling :cool:

[amos2]

You're losing the plot M!!! :confused:

[Prop's ????]

Kaptin M, I think you might be going a bit to far.

Probably lost, I don’t think that could happen.

Procedure entry, most en route holding patterns inbound legs are based on planed track.

I’m not saying you are wrong, but maybe taking it a bit to far.

Example ATC asks an inbound aircraft to make good say (Arbey) @ 1203z. If the requirement is unachievable, ATC will issue a heading say 60* off track to lose time (extend track miles). Once time has been lost the aircraft will be vectored back to planed track or cleared to the next waypoint.

It’s that simple.

Come-on guys, lets not try to make this a rocket science lesson. The question was put in for a reason, hopefully it has been answered.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Reading the original post again, I am a bit confused. The aircraft was basically tracking SE in the Dimboola area, so I would guess it was an Adelaide-Melbourne Flight, then you said it was seen going NW(?????) and that made you think it was going to Sydney(????), NW would take it to Alice Springs. I stick to my original theory and that being it was originally tracking AD-ML and then was given a dogleg or 2 to lose some time for sequencing. But I reckon we should get the tapes pulled and find out the reason why.:hmm:

[Cactus Jack]

errrrr, Kapt M? Your arrogance is quite spectacular. Yes I do fly for a living, and Yes I do fly for a large national carrier.

But if someone asks a question, and Soulman even tells you he is an enthusiast, not a professional, then an answer should be provided with all due respect .

You see, guys like soulman have respect for people like you and I, as professional aviators. Thats why you should return the favour, lest he loses his respect for you, and his interest in all things aviation. Surely we want to encourage his interest, not destroy it?

I hope you can learn a little humility, and perhaps have just a little more respect for others in the future.

[Kaptin M]

"You're losing the plot M!!! " - it seems that I'm in pretty good company going by some the other posts here, doesn't it, Amos.

Apparently many of the respondents (including one who flies "for a large national carrier. :ooh: IM PRESS IVE :ooh: ) believe that it's a perfectly normal occurence to see airline aircraft making course reversals.
However my humility prevents me from pointing out the apparent anomaly posted on what is supposedly a professional pilots' forum.

(Stick with those one-liners, ****su - any more than that, and you end up contradicting yourself....as evidenced on another topic :uhoh: )

[HANOI]

Seemed like a reasonable request from Soulman.

Thread ruined by Kraptin M as he has done so many times before

[Soulman]

ANSA, I stand corrected. Looking at the map again and thinking it over, the aircraft did indeed track NNE in the end and not NW as previously mentioned.

This probably clears up alot of things and I guess I should put my helmet on now to protect myself from the bombardment of abuse I will receive from a certain Kaptain amongst the forums.

Cactus - as for losing respect for those who'd rather humiliate an enthusiast than help him out. It was done long ago.

It's all well and good that you have a job with a airline now Kaptain, but I'd put my left knacker on the line to say that you too asked a few questions when you were a keen youngster. Or were you born with ATPL theory? If so, lucky boy...

And as for being moderate, modest & mild... One might sense you're groping your control column a little too hard. Relax a bit - you might make a friend or two.

Soulman.

[Tagneah]

........and so Soulman has the last (and best) word.

Kaptin M. I just hope your attitude does not stop other people from posting questions on this forum. I know it does sayProfessional Pilots rumour network but if all the members of that club had the "mightier than thou" attitude that you so frequently display then we would not get very far.

If you had some doubts about the direction the soulman posted as seeing the a/c track then how 'bout a simple "are you sure that it was NW" question rather than taking the opportunity to belittle fellow human.

Get down off that high-horse and pull ya head in.

Tag

[contrails03]

Soul Man, I bet you didn't bet on opening such a big can of worms... LOL

I still think my earlier theory holds true, either that or ATC wanted them to loose time to make ARBEY or Chapi by a certain time, and they needed vectoring to make it.

As for the accountants being p***ed, I think they would be more so if I did a barrel roll! ;) So I'll stick to giving you a beep when I pass over next time.

Kaptain, I think you're being a bit defensive. The guy just asked a question.

Flying may be a day do day activity for us, and certain things may be trivial to us, but there are guys out there who love the mystery of flight and everything about it. Yes even a diversion, or track adjustment!! I certainly was like that before I started flying, and I still am! :ok:

I think the guys who flew that flight would laugh their heads off if they read this thread:E

[Kaptin M]

I think the guys who flew that flight would laugh their heads off if they read this thread ~ I`d guess you`d be right, contrails.

Some 2 pages on, and a few delicate egoes later, of the 21 replies, there were only 4 or 5 who actually attempted any answer to Soulman`s initial puzzle (which now appears was flawed, according to him).

But don`t stop asking, Soulman - that wasn`t my intention.
With perhaps a little mischief in mind, I challenged your first statement as it seemed HIGHLY improbable that any airline aircraft would have carried out that manouevre, with the exception of the few possibilities thrown up by ANSA, contrails and moir (Yes, the being lost bit was tongue in cheek, Props??? )

My intention (besides "stirring the pot a little" ) was to try to have you understand how important it is to ACCURATELY state the situation as you recall it, AFTER carefully going through the probabilities LOGICALLY.
Otherwise some half smart-arsed, dyslexic, arrogant, friendless piece of cr@p might end up taking the p!ss out of you.

But in all seriousness, one of the most important "strategies" you need to learn in aviation - if you decide to pursue that path - is to NOT rush in......remember the joke about the young bull and the old bull looking at the paddock full of cows?
Young bull says to old bull, "Let`s race down there and grab ourselves each on of those," to which old bull replies, "Why don`t we just stroll on down, and get ALL of them!"

Thanks guys - it was fun. Lighten up and relax.
Oh and next time, how about a few more of you trying to answer the question! :ok:

[Cactus Jack]

Are you dyslexic, Kaptin? You can't read? You certainly can't post a good reply...!!!:ouch: :ouch: :ouch:

Apparently many of the respondents (including one who flies "for a large national carrier. IM PRESS IVE ) believe that it's a perfectly normal occurence to see airline aircraft making course reversals.

Now, do I really have to tell you that I never entered the debate as to what this acft was doing, or do you think you can go back and read the thread again, and this time comprehend what was stated.

But in all seriousness, one of the most important "strategies" you need to learn in aviation - if you decide to pursue that path - is to NOT rush in

So, why did you rush in so quickly to insult Soulman?

Dont bother replying Kaptin. You clearly did not understand my earlier post. A leopard does not change it's spots, and you will always be an arogant fool.

:ouch: :ouch: :ouch:

[HANOI]

You said it Kraptin

In your own words

"Some half smart-arsed,arrogant,friendless piece of cr@p"

What a fitting self description

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

OK guys, question answered I think. Kaptin probably needs to be a touch more welcoming to the enthusiasts with, what seems to him to be silly questions, but to them is of great interest. And at the same time everyone else maybe needs to chill out a little as well. (now I'll get flamed from both sides I guess:ouch: )

I have to admit as a young guy, on holidays in the grampians watching the contrails over head and wondering where they were going and what they were doing. Agree with previous poster, not all on here have to be Pro Pilots, or even pilots (us humble ATC'ers as an example), and we should be chuffed that their are people out there who find the industry we are involved in interesting and worth asking questions about.

Cheers Soulman, happy Sky gazing (BTW got a few friends who live in Rainbow, I think thats in your neck of the woods)

P.S I'm very surprised noone put forward the theory that since it was a Virgin 737, it was simply ducking and weaving around all the stealthy VFR aircraft stooging through our wonderful NAS Dickspace.:E