Embraer 170 tours Australia

[Airspeed Ambassador]

So have any ppruners been for a ride?

Picture of the Embraer 170 in Perth (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=547434&WxsIERv=RW1icmFlciAxNzA%3D&WdsYXMg=RW1icmFlcg%3D%3D&QtODMg=UGVydGggKFBFUiAvIFlQUEgp&ERDLTkt=QXVzdHJhbGlhIC0gV2VzdGVybiBBdXN0cmFsaWE%3D&ktODMp=QXByaWwgMSwgMjAwNA%3D%3D&BP=0&WNEb25u=Q2Fyc3RlbiBCYXVlcg%3D%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=UFAtWEpB&MgTUQtODMgKE=Rmlyc3QgdGltZSBpbiBQZXJ0aCwgdGhlIEVtYnJhZXIgMTc wIG1ha2VzIGl0IHZpc2l0IHRvIHRoZSBOSlMgcmFtcCBhZnRlciBmbHlpbmc gc29tZSBTa2lwcGVycyBWSVAncyBhcm91bmQsIGFsc28gbXkgZnJpZW5kcyB LZWl0aCBhbmQgTHVrZS4gUHJvYmFibHkgdGhlIG1vc3QgYWR2YW5jZWQgYWl yY3JhZnQgaW4gUGVydGggYXQgdGhpcyB0aW1lLiBUaGFuayB5b3UgdG8gdGh lIHdvbmRlcmZ1bCBjcmV3Lg%3D%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=MzE4&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwNC0wNC0wMg%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=MDAwNQ%3D%3D&static=yes&size=L)

[Capn Bloggs]

AA,
No, my boss wouldn't let me (a bugsmashing mate of my from $%^work got a ride though!!). But I sat in it before it went: top machine! Seats bigger than QFs, great pitch, wider isle. The cockpit does not have one round-dial in it. Scary. Quite a few nifty TV-like screens to look at too. Look like they'ra big enough to put the paper on! All I'd need is an ADSL connection in the office so I can download The Australian to PDF format before I go out to the ship! Couldn't find the DVD loader though. Perhaps this was only a test-plane, and one with all the cockpit trimmings will come later. Oh, and good-looking Brazilian trolley dolly too!

[Howard Hughes]

What a hot looking Plane!!

Where do I send my application?

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[cunninglinguist]

National Jet Systems
c/o Adelaide Airport

??????????????

;)

[Airspeed Ambassador]

I hear it's doing a presentation for NJS tomorrow in ADL with other capital cities to follow later in the week.

[Pimp Daddy]

National Jet Systems
c/o Adelaide Airport

??????????????
Not necessarily.............

[spinout]

Try

Eastern Australian Airlines
Sydney Airport

:cool:

[Hugh Jarse]

Yeah Spinout,
The boss and co are going for a burn this week, I believe.

[spinout]

Hugh jarse

I can see you in the front of one of them; I think you would make the aircraft look a bit better! Just have to convince the powers to be that you can do it just as cheap as NJS!

What would you prefer EMB 170 or DASH 8 400?

Maybe Qantas mainline might insist on operating any replacement for the BAE 146, so the cadets will have some thing to practice on prior to getting into a 747 400 or A 380
:rolleyes:

[bitter balance]

Do some numbers on the $US25m price tag. I'd send your application to somewhere in the US or Europe, I don't think we'll see too many here.

[druglord]

...is it the same cockpit as the -145? I heard they still have the rams horn yoke.

[Pimp Daddy]

Try

Eastern Australian Airlines
Sydney Airport


Closer... Try the next state north

[cunninglinguist]

I guess you guys have been living in hope for some 13 years now, may as well keep it up.

The question, what would you prefer, emb 170 or dash 8 400, thats a joke, right ?

[spinout]

hay pimp
what are they going to call Eastern and Sunstate when the combine latter this year!
:E

[Pimp Daddy]

hay pimp
what are they going to call Eastern and Sunstate when the combine latter this year!


Smart money would be Sunstern or Eaststate, then the MEL guys could be SouthSunstern or SouthEastState

But I bet the fun police will end up calling it Qantaslink, no imagination.

Fun bit will be combining the seniority lists, especially if there is a sniff of jet slots to come. Handbags at 5 paces go!

[T53C]

Whispers are suggesting the QLD family are looking very favourable. With major centres such as MKY, ROK not having overnights, strong push is for QF colours for business community of early morning services down south. Q300 just doesn't cut it. DJ are overnighting in ROK shortly.

Capacity in QLD is chockers. Don't be suprised if EAA/SSA don't merge to keep seperate AOC's and avoid bickering for management over career progression issues.

[jokeStar]

Heard similar things from within. SSA are VERY profitable with no competition, and require capacity. Word has it they are prepared to expand that part of the business group.

Management have 'noted' certain pilot groups to be slightly militant in the past. Apparently a big part of the equation. :rolleyes:

[ITCZ]

A very sleek machine indeed. Saw it arrive in PH and taxi to NJS. Yummy!

Jarse, don't take this as a windup, but....

Why would QF repeat the pain and suffering of the Ansett/Kendell introduction of a medium jet into a turboprop operation? A very professional tprop operation, yes, but have a look at what would be needed...

... most importanlty from the point of view of a dash driver wanting to sit in an embraer, you would need to import at least ALL the check and trainers for the new type and put them over the top of your most senior dash captains. Probably advisable to also import enough experienced jet left-seaters for initial operations too.

Might sound sexy to lie back with eyes half closed and imagine the dash transforming itself into a sexy brasilian, but the reality might be no progression. You would be watching 'outsiders' fly your company's new toy.

Suspect that QF might shy away from the problems inherent in merging seniority lists, working out progression plans, etc.

I reckon that IF [if!!] the embraer is an option for QF, they will be most interested in the least fuss solution.

Best advice to a tprop driver that wants to get into jets [if that is your thing] -- don't base your plans on your company maybe upgrading to jets. Apply to a company that operates jets!

Repeat, just my 2c worth, not a shot at the very professional QLink dash crews.

[Pimp Daddy]

ITCZ - don't forget that there is a pilot group within the QF regionals that did use to operate jets.

Ideed there was a QF regional (besides Impulse) that operated jets as recently as 18 months ago.

The numbers are dwindling as we speak but they are still there, not sure how many checkies left, but there are a few.

Completely different story to the Kendall goat f*ck.

[Capt Claret]

I can only agree with ITCZ, with all vested interests left aside.

Whilst I don't believe that the Southern/Eastern/Sunstate drivers are not equally as capable of operating the Embraer, as any other professional pilot body, I don't believe that Qantas management will take the route of upgrading at their cost.

The financial experiences of a jet type to Kendell and before them Southern will see Qantas avoid a repeat, if they can.

As ITCZ says, if you want a jet job, apply to a company that operates them. Qantas own the DH8 operating subsidiaries but they're separate companies and as we've seen progression from QF regionals to mainline is almost as scarse as rocking-horse sh!t. :ugh:

[cunninglinguist]

Kendells mentioned, but can't believe no one mentioned Southern ( apart from Clarrie ), after that ( the start up, and shut down ) you can bet your rrss that QF will go down the path of least resistance.

If nothing else, look at how easy it was for them to close MKY, ROK,CBR and most of BNE : " Hello DM, this is GD, just wanted to let you know your services are no longer required in ___ , see ya "
As opposed to how hard it was to shut down southerns jet op.
NJS are still employing some of those guys. ( and no, I'm not condoning what QF did to Sthn )

If, and thats the big question, a new type is introduced, I'm pretty sure Geoff will be looking at the flexibility and the " bend over backwards for QF " mentality of NJS management ( possibly not such a bad thing after all ).

[apacau]

NJS are convinced (have been for a while) and are just waiting for a tick-off from QF, if it ever happens.

Be curious whether they explore the option of the 3-abreast J class cabin up front. Would IMO be crucial for any ADL-CBR-BNE type network.

[Capn Bloggs]

Cunning,
Bend over WHICH way??!!:D

Apa,
It'd be a tight squeeze, three biz seats in a row. The trolley dollies would have a hard time negotiating the S bend.

[Reflex10]

:O I went for a 1 hour ride in it yesterday afternoon. Excellent little aircraft but seat / kilometre cost will be the determinant in the Australian operation at the end of the day. The 146's continue to age and a replacement must be chosen within the next couple of years.

[spinout]

Impulse went from B1900 to B717 now A320’s don’t forget Q may still go for the DASH-8 400 it would be the cheaper option and crewing would not be a problem!

[Capt Claret]

Spinout

Impulse did indeed have that progression but not all of it was under the stewardship of Qantas.

One will never know the answer but; had Qantas owned Impulse before the upgrade to the 717, would the 717 have eventuated @ Impulse?

[Capt Claret]

The beastie arrived in Darwin today, enroute to KL, from where I don't know.

I arrived just in time to have a look inside and outside and admit to being more impressed by its size and finnish than I had anticipated.

It's very quiet and quite spaceous, photos and short takeoff movie on work computer tomorrow.

And, thanks to the F/A for a Brasilian chocolate and an Embraer tie pin. :O

[Capn Bloggs]

Claret,
Dream on. You're too old and too junior to ever get a go. Ha Ha!
PS: Why didn't I get a tie pin??!!:hmm:

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

Here's some pictures of the bird that i took in Portugal:


http://www.geocities.com/pedro_downunder/emb.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/pedro_downunder/emb1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/pedro_downunder/emb2.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/pedro_downunder/emb3.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/pedro_downunder/emb4.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/pedro_downunder/emb5.jpg


---------
Regards
:ok:

[Stick Pusher]

Went for a ride in it when it was in Perth.

Comfortable and airy cabin (helps with the double bubble fusalage). Doors seemed as though they wouldn't take the vigours of day to day ops, may need to be strengthened. Apparently no. 005 (which the aircraft was) didn't have the final insulation installed. Taxi was a bit stiff strutt wise. But I think the huge cost of the aircraft will be one of the big factors of if we see it down under. Yet to see performance figures of if it would be suitable in the unique WA enviroment. Time will tell. Shame Dornier's version wasn't around.

[Capt Claret]

Blogs, you devastate me. Can you give me some pointers to overcome the twin deficiencies of age and seniority. :ugh:

[Wirraway]

Fri "The Australian"

Aircraft nuts just love this Brazilian
By Geoffrey Thomas
April 16, 2004

IT is simply the hottest selling aircraft in the world - and it was in Australia to show off its Brazilian flair to Qantas and National Jet Systems (NJS) last week.

And it's not hard to see why the Embraer (EMB)170-190 family is sweeping all before it.

The aircraft is a real hot rod.

It can fly from Perth to Sydney non-stop, faster than most larger commercial jets such as the A330, has the lowest seat mile costs in its category and can get in and out of short runways in searing heat - critical for operations in northern Australia.

Orders and options now top 600 from a host of the world's major airlines, including low cost specialist New York-based JetBlue, and the EMB 170 is the hot favourite at NJS to replace the BAe146s used for QantasLink services plus mining charters.

Embraer's major problem is delivering the jets, with production sold out through 2006, and according to insiders new un-announced orders will almost certainly close out production to 2008. Those commitments have pushed Sao Paulo-based Embraer's workforce to 12,941, and annual sales - which hit $US10.6 billion ($14.4 billion) last year - are set to soar as the manufacturer starts delivering the new EMB 170 series.

Embraer is a relative newcomer to aircraft manufacturing, as it was founded in 1969. It has grown to be Brazil's largest exporter and the world's third largest civil aircraft manufacturer after Airbus and Boeing.

The Embraer commercial products include the 30-seat EMB 120 Brasilia, 37-seat ERJ 135, 44-seat ERJ 140 and the 50-seat ERJ 145 jet airliners.

Deliveries to airlines of the first EMB 170s commenced last year. Coming in four sizes seating from 70 through to 118 passengers the jet is ideally placed for the regional market.

But rather than a cramped dark cabin typical of many regional offerings, the EMB 170 has a two-by-two cross section with large windows giving a light, airy and spacious feeling.

NJS executives have been working with Embraer to improve the hot field performance of the EMB 170 to match that of the BAe146 - critical for northern Australian conditions.

While NJS was coy about its plans, the industry understands that the Adelaide-based company has secured at least one EMB 170 for delivery later this year for a mining contract.

This lease will introduce the type to the NJS fleet and an order for between 10 and 20 aircraft is expected to follow for delivery starting around 2007-08.

NJS has leases on the BAe146 out to 2008-09.

The secret to the success of the Embraer aircraft is the "clean sheet design" philosophy, rather than a compromise of a larger existing design.

Both Airbus and Boeing have tried with limited success to downscale their respective A320 and 737 families. But that approach carries with it significant weight penalties which compromise the economics.

Embraer has designed an aircraft from scratch that brings together all the latest cockpit and engine technology which optimises the design to the 70-118 seat market.

And rather than the slower speeds typical of regional jets, the EMB 170 clips along at Mach .82.

===========================================

[Stick Pusher]

Oh how I miss Geoff's inaccurate reporting, and quality at that! New paper, new writing style....? Wonder what the hot love affair with NJ's is? His article on Nj's not so long ago was nothing short of just plain advertising (a bit John Law's style) and now this. "The aircraft is a real hotrod" think the writing would be better in 'Pit Moles Monthly'. And they weren't just showing it off to NJ's if accurate reporting was ever to come into his equation. Also faster than a 330? Personally doubt it, which cost index? Yet to see decent Hot High and Short runway payload/range charts, except for the glossy manufacturer one liners. How's the cost per unit?

[CAPT146]

Word around the camp fire is that it's not just NJS/QF who are interseted in the Emb 170. Some management pilots from DJ took it for a spin this week. As JET BLUE are doing it then why cant they. About to take on the Dash 8s regional monopoly they are!

[cunninglinguist]

Don't know about the unit costs but how about:
3-400 litres per hour less fuel burn,
at around 50 knots faster,
somewhere around 15-20 A/C flying 6-8 hours a day, 365 days a year
not to mention reliability and low maintenance costs ( theoretically ) of a new A/C.
Do the math

By the way Stick, you reckon GT has a love affair with NJS, what has caused your hatred of them ?

[easternboy]

I say bring it on, I for one and the other 99% if eastern cabin crew would operate this aircraft for the same pay. Anything has got to be better than the Dash!!

[Stick Pusher]

No hatered toward NJ's, just what and how things are reported by a certain award winning journo. Just got to take a step back and see "what the!" the article I was referring to was blatant much to do about nothing, and this one is just inaccurate info, that's all. just the truth and facts, and good enough reason to be in the paper... simple really, not too much to ask.

Cheers,

SP

[geoffrey thomas]

Stick pusher:
Looking at your posts I would say that perhaps you were anti NJS!
I was just reporting the facts.
There is no question the EMB170 is a superb aircraft and after some work with NJS over the past year the performance has been enhanced to meet its North-West airfield demands.
I think the sales of the EMB 170-190 do all the talking.
As far as NJS is concerned I guess its performnace speaks for itself. I was simply reporting what has happened not what might be or giving any opinion.
Perhaps you can point out where I was wrong in the NJS story.
And in the past six years it is the first feature I have written on them...not quite doing them any favours.
GT

[Sheep Guts]

Looks good. How high are the engine intakes from the ground? You would think it would be prone to F.O.D. more so than their other models. But at 25mil a piece why would bother with Q400?

From what I hear they still have problems with the Q400, especially the Delivery customer in Europe somewhere.
Props are for Boats Gentlemen, bring on the EMB170!

Sheep:O

[geoffrey thomas]

Stick pusher:
BTW I hardly think a jolly for staff of two other airlines in WA constitutes a meaningful interest by those airlines.
The aircraft was flown to Australia to show NJS in Perth and Adelaide. Virgin Blue was an important after thought.
In understand from a Brazilian contact that NJS has secured production line options for the aircraft, unlike any other Australian operator.
GT

[apacau]

GT: anything in the talk that NJS have ordered 4 ERJ170s? I would think it is too small a number to operate as a Qantaslink operation unless however some come from leasing organisations as well.

[geoffrey thomas]

NJS are saying nothing, however I understand from the resource industry that one or two are very interested in switching to the EMB170. I believe that Qantas are of like mind on the EMB170 for the QantasLink operation and want to maintain the relationship with NJS.
The big problem with the aircraft are delivery slots which are sold out through 2006 and there a couple of big orders in the wind that will close out production positions to 2008. So NJS/QF have to move quickly.
GT

[ditzyboy]

easternboy -
Giving cabin crew a decent wage would not break EAAs budget. Is that what they have you all thinking?

[cunninglinguist]

NJS/QF move quickly ? Ha !