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Slasher
28th Jun 2001, 12:26
Danny you just blew another jugular at sex-threads within JB. Its ok pal because Im the one who first tested the latest edge of the "hotel lobby" envelope and the person your primarily sh!ttey at. As Ive told you time and time before, ANY moderater can delete any of my post(s) or thread(s) without complaint. Youve done it before and you know I havent made a peep. Youve done it again today and Im not bitching am I. Im not into this free-speech or gay-whale rights crap. If you want to boot my stuff out, its your turf bud.
Its complaining parents you say. Well have any of these bloodey so-called parents heard of parental-lock software? Or dont they take responsibility for there kids and instead shift the blame to everyone else for there lack of child-discipline ability?
I dont have a wife or kids. But recentley my brother and his tribe came up a month. My 14yo nephew Donny wants to be a pilot and wanted to see PPRuNe on my computer. I know what JB is about so I told him hed get a bloodey painful boot up his @rse if he went anywhere near Jet Blast. There was no problem. Now if a childless bastard like me can do it why cant these "parents"?

A glaring inconsistentcy Danny. Whats the CLEAR WARNING before entering JB? Youll have to change it because it contradicts your revised new kiddy-friendly JB format mate.

[This message has been edited by Slasher (edited 28 June 2001).]

Release
28th Jun 2001, 14:35
Well done Slasher, top man for finding where JB had sneaked off to. Back to sex, religion and rice krispies!

Engineer
28th Jun 2001, 14:59
Do you think this forum should now be moderated by

Captain Bursterbloodvessel

or the maybe

Mr Blobby for all the children watching!

Well back to Marge in Agony Aunt forum to discuss my deviant sexual problems in details. Remember children do not try this at home

[This message has been edited by Engineer (edited 28 June 2001).]

Engineer
28th Jun 2001, 15:20
NP
You forgot
children toys-no you we will offend the children

[This message has been edited by Engineer (edited 28 June 2001).]

Velvet
28th Jun 2001, 15:23
Perhaps to solve the problem, JB could become a closed forum - like the airline specific fora, only for adults - that way we could at least be more open, without being too offensive, and at the same time allow young readers access to the rest of this very valuable aviation site.

We obviously all need somewhere like this, and it would be a shame for it to subside into a bland mix not really appealing to anyone.

Not complaining, I know Danny is at the blunt (sharp) end of the complaints and no doubt gets a lot of blasts from parents who have difficulty in monitoring their computer literate children. Especially if they don't really understand either computers or the internet.

As I said in Dunnunda - JetBlast by its very nature attracts the people who not only make it appealing, but also create the more controversial posts / threads. A victim of its own success.

Slasher
28th Jun 2001, 15:26
Now dont overdo it guys or youll get his blood-pressure up again. Im primarily the one Dannys got the sh!ts with, and Im just patiently waiting for his response (if any).

Feeton Terrafirma
28th Jun 2001, 15:43
Another sad day in the life of Jet Blast http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Danny, why not ban the perpetrator? Oh yeah, you did that once before..........


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I'm not a PPRuNe addict. (just need one more post)

Engineer
28th Jun 2001, 16:01
You will wait a while for the reply Slasher he must think that the forum is closed.

But when he finds out about the back door approach to JB his blood pressure will be up again. Helmets on and I hope the children are not watching.

[This message has been edited by Engineer (edited 28 June 2001).]

Capt Vegemite
28th Jun 2001, 16:24
Slasher mate a lil dicky bird has told me that while Danny considers you to a be all of the things you claim to be in your profile plus a few others,you're not guilty this time I,m afraid.

Dont fret better luck next time.

New PPlonker
28th Jun 2001, 16:27
Don't hold your breath waiting for that email Slash, Danny doesn't always reply. This included emails sent to his personal address, and are for him personally.

Edited to tone down extent of complaint.

[This message has been edited by New PPlonker (edited 28 June 2001).]

OzExpat
28th Jun 2001, 17:14
Geez, why did I ever decide to stop reading that 'Fetishes' thread? If Slash is not at fault here, I'll never know what caused the problem, as I haven't kept up with it since it went to page 2.

I always seem to miss out on the good stuff. Must be the story of me life! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Onya anyway Slash for having the courage of yer convictions!

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Dispela olgeta samting i pekpek bilong bulmakau!

The Fokker's chocka ocker
28th Jun 2001, 17:20
sorry. typo.
thought I'd entered pprude.
sorry.

old_cross_bound
28th Jun 2001, 18:00
Danny,

I'd like to volunteer to moderate Slasher and those like him. Notice in his original post here, he made no mention of even attempting to moderate his behaviour, at all. Like, that's out of the question.

Here in Texas we have a armed society. A 9mm in each hip pocket and an AK47 behind every pick-up truck and car seat. A armed society is a very polite and respectful society.
We would be glad to welcome Slasher and his kind to Texas where we could rearrange some of their bad habits and give them all a major attitude adjustment.

Then the newly aquired politeness would overflow on Pprune and you wouldn't have to put up with these spoiled babies so much.

Maybe we could even start a business out of it, similar to bear hunting. You catch them and send them my way and I'll skin them for you. What do you think?

ocb

Biggles Flies Undone
28th Jun 2001, 18:08
Slash, I think Capt. V got it right. Don't get too tense mate....

Capt Vegemite
28th Jun 2001, 18:35
OCB you one a them thar Branch Davidians?

Engineer
28th Jun 2001, 18:50
Capt V

Thought I saw some one like him in the film Mississippi Burning wearing a white pointed hat and standing before an old burning cross. Just supposition though


[This message has been edited by Engineer (edited 28 June 2001).]

old_cross_bound
28th Jun 2001, 19:47
Capt Vegemite

So slaughtering eighty men women and children even running over two and three year old little girls with government tanks is good; simply because they have a different opinion on religion than me and you. Those people were misled but they were human beings and could have overcome those circumstances.

Have you seen the documentary,"Waco" the real story, put together by X-FBI agents and Texas Rangers proving a government cover-up of the truth. They could have arrested David Koresh the previous day at Walmart if they had wanted a peaceful solution to the problem.
The leader was a nut but with-in his constitutional rights to protect those people, and yes with guns, no different than some 2500 other cults in the USA and Europe. Separation of Church and State is still in our constitution even if our government refuses to enforce it. So is the right to keep and bear arms in case of government tyranny/slaughter.

I would side with them even if I don't think or believe the way they do, anyday, before I would side with your kind of thinking.
For you: Society says it, you believe it, just like cattle in a feedyard or pre-WWII Germans, you are a luke warm pupit to the new global social engineering and don't even realize it. You're mentally blind and that's much more dangerous than anything that was going on in Waco before the slaughter took place.

Enjoy your very real fanaticism and the New World Order and the WTO while you can. The first United Nations was tried by Nimrod right after the Genesis Flood and God hammered it. What makes you think the hammer isn't coming again?
Oh yea, as it was in the days of Noah so it is today. Everyone eat drink and be merry and ignore the Bible believing nuts and kill them with heavy artilliary and call them white hood fanatics while you run over their kids with tanks and blow their brains out for the fun of it while at the same time you comfortably sit back in your comfortable little world and enjoying your self-indulgence continuously. No thanks, coward!

ocb

Capt PPRuNe
28th Jun 2001, 20:10
It's been a long day. Been up since 0430 and done my two medium haul sectors and to be perfectly honest I couldn't care less whether your don't approve of my actions. :mad:

If you want to post your sexual fantasies, feelings, inadequacies or anything related to what I consider to be outside the rules of PPRuNe and taking into account that this is the Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork and not anything else then be prepared to sod off and go elsewhere. I do not need your petty whingeing about whether I should let you post whatever you want on this or any other forum on PPRuNe.

If you don't like it there are thousands of other sites that cater for your specific needs. PPRuNe is not going to be one of them. That is final! Anyone want to have a moan about it had better email me directly and not use this forum for it. I have no patience left.


------------------
Capt PPRuNe
aka Danny Fyne
The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork

Winston Smith
28th Jun 2001, 21:49
Though I certainly do not agree with the rest of his post, I can't help but recognize the truth of ocb's statement that an "armed society is a very polite and respectful society". An armed society is also the only safe-guard against an evil government like the one who committed the Waco massacre, to name but one case. It doesn't matter whether they were nuts or not - Janet Reno probably thought she could get away with it just because they were different. - old_cross_bound, you would be taken much more seriously if you only stopped clobbering us with His Wrath.

And as far as the real topic of this thread is concerned:

Please do not regard this statement as sycophantic in any way, but - considering the fact that this an aviation forum - we really should appreciate the opportunity to talk with others of our (actual or prospective) profession about almost anything we want, from religion to politics to rice-crispies. As I have already mentioned in the Hijack-A-Plane thread (http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum4/HTML/004294-4.html) , this is not something which we should take for granted: The German PPRuNe-clone (http://www.pilots.de) doesn't offer the degree of freedom we enjoy and is, partly because of this, becoming extremely boring. - And finally, I wouldn't like to have to deal with the lawyers, either. :)

old_cross_bound
28th Jun 2001, 22:51
Capt PPRuNe
aka Danny Fyne,

I applaud your actions and professionalism and I agree 100%. I've been on many other forums and I've seen them deteriorate to the point uselessness. Nipping this behaviour in the bud just makes good sense.

ocb
aka Gary

Slasher
28th Jun 2001, 22:54
Yeh thanks Ozex, Veg, others. Maybe it was me, maybe not. I still have posting rights so thats a good sign. After the boss wakes up I still might get my arse kicked anyway, but nonetheless I stand by every word in my first post.

PS I think Velvets suggestion merits attention. It might work.

[This message has been edited by Slasher (edited 28 June 2001).]

Slasher
28th Jun 2001, 23:08
Everybody knows your only in here to give me the sh!ts OCB. Its so damn obvious. Well I aint biting for the likes of a universal pain-in-the-arse like you. So stop wasting your time and get your nose out of Dannys butt before it bleeds.

[This message has been edited by Slasher (edited 28 June 2001).]

Send Clowns
28th Jun 2001, 23:21
Winston dear boy, if armed citizens are such a threat to the rude and obnoxious how come OCB has survived to be still posting here? I think he personally deserves far more complaints than all the sexually-related threads I have seen here.

OCB certainly is more deserving of complaint and censure than Slasher, who is actually pretty tolerant of people's need to hold their own opinions (however visciously he may attack those opinions, he does not attack an undeserving poster, just the post). Would you rather your child saw a sex-related thread in a light vein (mostly if they understand then it's something they know about anyway) or the nasty, spiteful invective from the pen of the revolting Texan?

------------------
'Me here at last on the ground, you in mid air'

Tricky Woo
29th Jun 2001, 00:23
Dear All,

Please try to keep OCB's above posting in mind whenever you feel tempted to afford him any respect whatsoever. There is indeed greater evil in this world than silly little schoolboys posting links to porn sites. This guy is absolutely bananas.

TW

Winston Smith
29th Jun 2001, 00:33
Send Clowns,

I do not think that ocb is "deserving of complaint and censure". I differ in opinion with him on a few subjects as well, but then we are free to ignore him, as I finally did on the God topic. And if I had a child I would not really mind him/her reading ocb's opinions. As I said, he makes it unnecessarily hard for people to be convinced by his world-view as long as he rams the Bible down their throats.

*** BREAK ***

THIS CONCERNS ALL:

I think we should continue the debate about armed citizenry on the newly created thread Gun Laws" (http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum4/HTML/004472.html) .

Send Clowns
29th Jun 2001, 00:54
Winston,

Him holding his opinions, no problems. Him arguing his opinions, no problems. The way he posted on this forum, lots of problems. It may have been before your time, but when he first arrived here he behaved in such a disgusting manner that I have publicly refused to reply to him unless he apologises to Velvet.

This was pretty extreme for me, as I am usually fairly easy-natured, but he was literally accusing Velvet of every possible sin, in which he specifically included murder. That was simply the peak of a foul tirade over many days from this 'christian' contributor. Many was the call for him to be censored or banned, calls I have only seen once otherwise - for Capt Ed who introduced OCB and was himself banned.

Release
29th Jun 2001, 17:50
From OCB,

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
For you: Society says it, you believe it, just like cattle in a feedyard or pre-WWII Germans, you are a luke warm pupit to the new global social engineering and don't even realize it. You're mentally blind and that's much more dangerous than anything that was going on in Waco before the slaughter took place. </font>

I agree with OCB on this subject, however not absolutly and not with everything. There is a lot going on in the world along the lines of social engineering which is totally hidden from the public eye. You can read a significant amount about it on the internet.

Before you can slag it all off as right wing extremism, you need to read what they've got to say. You've got to read the counter arguement. Wether you choose to believe any of it at all is up to you, but there is one thing that you will come across ...questions that can't be answered.

When you come across these questions, you won't 'realise the truth', you won't suddenly discover just how the world being run, you won't discover who's running the show. What is claimed is so extreme, that you would be nuts to believe it.

However you'll realise that there is 'something there', you'll realise that there is a lot that you don't know about, and that the world isn't run just as the media show it. You'll reaslise that 'stuff' is hidden from us, and we are manipulated by the media's choice of coverage. Mainly, you'll realise that it's not all quite as simple and honest as you'd previously though.

I personally don't trust or believe the press. We are told what they want us to hear, and as the media is our only source of information, of course most people believe it.

For example, there is continued support by the media for Israel against the Palestinians, despite Israel killing 5 times as many Palestinians as vice versa. Why isn't there international criticism by the media of what Israel is doing. Throw a stone, get shot dead(even if you are a child). Doesn't sound very fair, however the media takes sides, and they make it sound fair.

Now, when a Palestinian is executed for allegedly being an Israeli informer, there is worldwide condemnation of this, and the 'wild uncontrolled savage' Palestinians are condemmed for it. Why? Seems strange, but it's what the media have the power to do.

If I owned a newspaper, it would be biased. The Daily Mail is Tory, the Mirror(continuing big drop in readership and poor profit warnings..hehehe) supports Labour. You've probably guessed by now which party I would bias towards.

Each paper chooses how to report a political subject, i.e.

Mail - Hague's sharp an critical questioning left Blair shaken and on unsteady ground.
Mirror - Hague's attempt to criticise Blair leaves Hague defeated as his pointless questions are trounced by the PM's sharp response.

If you're still not convinced, buy a copy of the Daily Mail and the Mirror, after a big personal political debate. You will read two totally different stories about what happened.



[This message has been edited by Release (edited 29 June 2001).]

Engineer
29th Jun 2001, 18:25
Yes and after all that Release I do believe in Chemtrails

OzExpat
29th Jun 2001, 20:36
Geez, has this thread ever been hijacked! Such a pity - it had been going along ever so nicely... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

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Dispela olgeta samting i pekpek bilong bulmakau!

Send Clowns
29th Jun 2001, 22:08
Having now heard why Danny got cross, I can but agree with him. On the other hand I do wonder how we in the UK (and even more in the US) can take offense at sexual content and ask the site owner to remove it, yet accept material that is libelous (some of OCB's certainly was) or even potentially criminal (? I am not a lawyer, so I don't know) (some of the incitement to violence on the 'Bulger's killers' thread) and genuinely nasty, viscious and vindictive.

------------------
'Me here at last on the ground, you in mid air'

Nil nos tremefacit
30th Jun 2001, 01:04
OCB

Interesting that you rally to the cause of the Branch Davidians, but like virtually all Texans you forget the original massacre at Waco. White, God fearing Christian men in cavalry uniforms slaughtered the Comanche and stole their land from them forever.

I don't know where you live in Texas, but your right to bear arms has nothing to do with fighting oppressive governments, but has a lot to do with killing people who were trying to protect their lands from colonisation.

On thread.. I think that Danny is peculiarly tolerant of some very extreme rantings and if he wants to get people to cool it so be it.

I also agree with the view that the sexual innuendos and lewdness are irrelevant compared to many of the abusive and libellous posts that do get through. The parents who complain about the contributions on JB must surely be aware that their kids probably visit far worse sites. I did Y2K checks and desktop audits at a number of schools and found that despite the teachers' confidence that the kids couldn't go anywhere they weren't allowed they had been all over the place - and the little buggers loaded a virus that wiped my boot disk!!!!!!!

Loki
30th Jun 2001, 01:32
Personally, I regard JB as a strange kind of cocktail pary, which I thoroughly enjoy. If mine host decides that the behaviour of some of the guests is not up to scratch then of course he should take action before the whole thing degenerates into something very ugly.

I find some of the smuttier threads rather tedious and prefer ocb baiting when I want some laughs.

126.9
30th Jun 2001, 01:49
Nippin' the problem in the bud is great and I applaud it! Continuously freaking out (not just today or on the JB issue) the way you do Mr Fyne, is by no means a good reflection on this Fine profession! If anybody is giving the kids a bad impression; I'm sorry to say it's YOU!

Go ahead and kick me out. But once you've done it, go back and read your own replies to all the problems you've come up against here at pprune over the last month or so. Although I know you won't admit it here, you'll probably agree; you're headed for Heart-Attack Hotel!!!

Winston Smith
30th Jun 2001, 02:54
P L E A S E ! ! !

I beg the first person with any administrative powers whatsoever reading this to delete the above posting by "126.9" IMMEDIATELY to avert any further damage to the JB community!

Rollingthunder
30th Jun 2001, 03:01
No respect 162.4. Newbies or anyone else should not tread on superman's cape.

EGPFlyer
30th Jun 2001, 03:02
Is 126.9 the frequency for idiots? :)
It's Danny's so he can run it as and how he choses. If something is post on here, then Danny is responsible for it therefore if someone complains then Danny has to remove it. PPRuNe is a website for pilots and JB is a forum within the website where pilots can let out steam. It is not a place for talk of sex...If anyone wants to do that then there are plenty of places on the net where you can.

Think of it this way,
If someone came came into your house, you would expect them to abide by your rules or else leave..It is their choice.

Anyway, another rant over,
P :)

------------------
EGPFlyer
Director of Donkeys and Vodka Mixing
[email protected]

126.9
30th Jun 2001, 14:44
Hey, I'm not kicking the guy in the teeth, and I quite agree with his steps taken here at JB. No argument from me. In fact the guy does a great job of administrating t(his) site.

However, I have been reading his reply posts to numerous problems which have cropped up here at pprune in recent months, and I'm sorry to say; if I was his boss at work, I'd be calling him in pretty soon to check out his psychological status and make sure that the pressures of his "private" life are not interfering in his "professional" life!

But that is just my opinion, and it need not be heeded at all!!!

-------
126.9 is the air-to-air frequency in use over almost all of Africa. How that makes it attract derogatory remarks or insults...? Well, who knows?

GoGirl
30th Jun 2001, 19:39
All I am able to say, after having just read the above post, is that I think you just overstepped the mark....and that's putting it politely :mad:


GG

old_cross_bound
30th Jun 2001, 19:40
Slasher
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
Everybody knows your only in here to give me the sh!ts OCB. Its so damn obvious. Well I aint biting for the likes of a universal pain-in-the-arse like you. So stop wasting your time and get your nose out of Dannys butt before it bleeds.</font>

***Don't flatter yourself. I've talked the exact same way to hundreds of others on multiple forums before you ever came along.
I sure don't mind addressing your pride though as it's an easy target as is send clowns, velvet and others. (see: "Eat your heart out ocb" thread page three!)

***Everyone has their own slant which they seem to believe in wholeheartedly as Release has also said. I saw the tape on the Waco cover-up and it's available for anyone to see. I saw the clothes of the children burned but with tank tracks running across them and I saw the news conferences covering up the truth and how the public at large bought the government story hook, line and, sinker. That is 1930's Germany folks. Think!

Nil nos tremefacit,

That's a very weak argument. The indians were killing each other off continously prior to encountering any white people and still would be today if nothing had changed. They were civilized by what happened in this country, a point you obviously overlooked and have not yet even considered, THINK! You can do it!

Loki,

Your hooked! It's a good thing you can't shoot Pprune into your veins! You would be a serious addict!

It's like when you see someone you had a serious emotional attachment to and your stomach aches and depression over the loss overwhelms you for the moment, it's just like that only different! LOL!

EGPFlyer,

Do you have sex in the cockpit while you are flying or what? Some pilots! You should be grounded until this problem is resolved!
Lets keep this forum clean!

ocb :)

Engineer
30th Jun 2001, 19:54
o_c_b
Would you class playing with oneself as sex in the cockpit. Just a question?

HugMonster
30th Jun 2001, 20:05
126.9, I think you'll find yourself and your opinions in a minority of 1 with your last two posts. It's time to wind your neck in.

Nil nos tremefacit
30th Jun 2001, 20:27
OCB

The natives were not civilized by being virtually exterminated. Most tribes east of the Mississippi have been civilized into extinction. The Trail of Tears, Sand Creek, Waco etc etc were acts of barbarity, period. Given that Andrew Jackson used to hunt the natives for sport I don't think they were well treated by your Government. Only the Seminole were not so stupid as to sign a treaty with your government, every other people were tricked into surrendering land, rights, life the works.

I think you should read more of your nation's history. :)

EGPFlyer
30th Jun 2001, 21:41
OCB,
My Instructor aint my type so there will be no hanky panky in the cockpit for me :)

P :)

------------------
EGPFlyer
Director of Donkeys and Vodka Mixing
[email protected]

Capt PPRuNe
30th Jun 2001, 23:03
Hey, 126.9, thank you for your concern over my mental health but if you interpret the posts I make when I need to fire a 'shot across the bows' as me 'freaking out' and going apoplectic then I have obviously written them well.

All I do when I see that things are overstepping the bounds of what I interpret as acceptable behaviour is wite my post, calmly wording it for the correct effect and then I temporarily withdraw the service to give me a bit of breathing space and I am extremely relaxed. It is the flood of emails from other people who are extremely anxious to know what, why, when etc the problem is and when will it be resumed.

Believe me, I feel fine (excuse the pun) and your concern is indeed touching but not necessary. Thank you.

For the rest who still haven't quite got the 'picture' yet, discuss anything you want but use some common sense and remeber that this is not a porn site nor a race hatred site nor anything else that is so extreme that it requires its own dedicated site to cater for the few extremists. Unfortunately, now that the membership has grown to such a size it gets more and more difficult to keep the 'thickos' out of the threads.

Anyway, carry on discussing this if you like, I am grateful for the support shown and can take the criticism too. As long as the rules are understood I don't mind.


------------------
Capt PPRuNe
aka Danny Fyne
The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork

redsnail
30th Jun 2001, 23:16
Danny,
*wipes tears from eyes*
"calmly wording it for the correct effect "
That is one of the funniest things I have ever read here in PPRuNe!

PS, Why did the US DoD put the Navstar satellites so far into space?

So the Scousers can't nick them. :)

------------------
reddo...feral animal!

[This message has been edited by redsnail (edited 30 June 2001).]

126.9
1st Jul 2001, 02:30
Danny -

I didn't say I'd run this site any better than you do (I couldn't.) Nor did I say my reply post would be any less fiery than yours (they wouldn't.) What I do say is what you tell everyone here that oversteps the line: be careful, watch your back, because; everything you say can and will be held against you...

None of us are without enemies!

-----------------

GoGirl - If you like "Vintage Red, Vintage Men & Vintage Cars in no particular order", perhaps you should correspond with Hug Monster; I'm told he likes the same.

HugMonster
1st Jul 2001, 05:30
Does anyone else detect a little "Taxi Driver" style of debate here?

OzExpat
1st Jul 2001, 11:37
126.9... I DEMAND that you withdraw THAT comment! You know which one I'm referring to.

Nil nos tremefacit
1st Jul 2001, 13:28
The ancient and mystic art of numerology dictates that every letter in a person's name is substituted for a number. The numbers are added together to produce a sum. The sum of the numbers can tell you a persons character and fortune. Where a person's name consists only of numbers the science is made easier.

so.. 1+2+6+9 = 18

1+8 = 9

9 - (from my mediaeval 'Boke of numerology, Divinity expounded in nomberes' by Hensbane the Confounded) - Thysse persone is remarkably slow on ye uptaek. Hysse arrogance knowes noe bounds. He believeth that he knoweth more than ye common man, nay more even than the soothsayers and scholars that doe abound. He despitheth those who do use men as if they were woman, and believeth all of those who do oppose him to be of thate ilk. He thinketh that other men and velvet cladde women do hold hym in esteem and confider hysse words to be wise. In truth wherefor he errs greatly, for they confider himme to be a compleat and utter prycke. Yea even the men from the south and east are sore upsset by hysse ill confidered words and the tone thereof. He will, God wylling, go far, hopefullye unto the ends of the earth and beyond Africs shores where hippogryffes do breath foul and noxious fumes and devils consume the doers of foul deedes and the sayers of foul words and likewise those who have impure thoughts and think that lynkkes to porn sites should be allowed. In all this fort of perfon is to be well avoided because he does bring discord where there is none and because he piffes off even the moft patient saints such as Daniel the Fine - who regularly transporteth the meek and mild and occasionally slightly drunk to the far corners of the earth that they might get laid when the wyffe thinks they are on buzineff - but I digreff.

So, there we have it. Who am I to challenge the great classical scholars? :)

Edited for spelling!

[This message has been edited by Nil nos tremefacit (edited 01 July 2001).]

Slasher
1st Jul 2001, 13:44
Yeh Reds I agree with your comment on page 3 about Danny "calmly wording it for the correct effect".

Well if that is a "calmly worded" post then Id hate to be around when he REALLY cracks the sh!ts! ;)

Engineer
1st Jul 2001, 13:53
NOS
Does that mean that I could take 126.9 and apply the number theory of

26=two sixes and
9-(2+1)=6 another six

Meaning that 126.9 is a disguise for 666

gawd help us the mark

maybe everyone should be careful about this ppruner especally o_c_b and mr pprune. Be warned remembering, he should be given the same rights as the minority subjects that are not to be discussed because of their sensitive nature.

126.9
1st Jul 2001, 14:54
I dread to think that I might've even been a passenger on an aircraft with the likes of NNT, Engineer, OzExpat or GoGirl on the flight deck. Quite clearly, those psychometric tests are not effectively keeping all the nutters out.

In the case of poor old "chip on BOTH shoulders Hug Mon" it doesn't really matter, since he only flies those little "Anvil in Ice" jobbies anyway!

The Nr Fairy
1st Jul 2001, 15:07
Is 126.9 Shh... in a different guise ? If so, the wind-up's already gone wrong.

Tricky Woo
1st Jul 2001, 15:09
126.9,

How are you qualified in ANY way to question Uncle Danny's mental health? You may have read the Ladybird Book of Psychology, run your finger across all the pretty, colourful pictures, and even understood some of the big words, but that doesn't make any of your opinions on such matters even remotely credible.

This 'I wouldn't want to fly with you' cheap shot is getting a big stale around this site. The funny thing is that it's usually bandied about by non-pilots, which cheapens it still further still.

Other than that, thank you for your intelligent, considered posts that have added so much to this thread.

TW

p.s. F**kwit.

Velvet
1st Jul 2001, 15:19
Well I guess anonymity grants even the lowest on the rung of humanity a platform from which to proclaim their ignorance.

You're right engineer - and 6+6+6 = 18. Can't argue that it is indeed the mark of the beast - says so in the Bible and that's absolutely accurate - ask OCB or Guyincognito. :)

Nahh Nr - Ssshhh had the advantage of being hilarious - 126.9 is just mind-numbingly dull.

Now where's Tony Draper when you need him, perhaps we could persuade him to 'mend' 126.9.

126.9
1st Jul 2001, 15:51
Oh yes. I get it now. The more pprune posts you have, the better qualified pilot you are. And then of course, if you have around 800 odd posts, you're already accustommed to shooting people down for having a different opinion to your own. Oh and finally, you've totally ganged up with a bunch of other reprebates to assist in your pathetic stone-throwing quest!

Now in reply to your childish analysis of my postings to Danny; they were all done in good spirit and total honesty. MY HONEST OPINION! Nothing more, nothing less. If you'd read them from a neutral point of view, (as opposed to your Dear Superman having his cape tread on) perhaps the child within you might have remained exactly that.

About the "non-pilot" thingy: I don't even have to begin to prove it to you! Then again, I guess if I didn't know exactly what to say and just felt like saying something stupid anyway... no I guess not!

Slasher
1st Jul 2001, 16:43
126.9 Im not jumpin on your case because you havent jumped on mine but a word of advice:

* honest opinions are acceptable so long as they are informed. Nothin wrong with speculation about people but you have to word it carefuly to avoid offence if your assumptions are proved wrong. If you cant do that its best not to post anything all.

* The "CLEAR FIELDS" and "EDIT" buttons are the best debating tools ever invented

* Criticaly analise every word youve written first before punching SUBMIT REPLY and think about how people will see it from various angles, not just yours

* attack the argument and never the arguer. This will give you credibility in anything you wish to counter whatsoever.

* Where posible dont react. Instead respond

* Dont use worn-out cliches of convenience. They cheapen the debate mate, honest. A well thought-out and reasoned post can be completeley negated by cracks like "I wouldnt fly with you", "nutters in the cockpit" etc

* Never bullsh!t. If you dont have hard facts to back up your claim then just dont say anything at all, because if you statement is entirely subjective or proven false youll get mauled

* If you do get ganged-up on, take a step back and shutup for a while. They may or may not have a valid point. Review your posts and look at them criticaly. If you feel the protaginists are wrong, give sound unemotional reasons why you think so with no name-calling. If you feel they are nonetheless right, pull your head in and apologise. No harm done and everybody soon forgets the outburst. People might recall the good guys but they sure as sh!t never forget the arseholes.

Now if I were you Id cool down for a day or so before posting again.

HugMonster
1st Jul 2001, 16:52
Slash, that's one of the best posts I've seen in a long time. It should be put in the FAQ section.

Nil nos tremefacit
1st Jul 2001, 21:50
126.9 - unlikely that you were ever a pax on the aircraft I've operated as military rearcrew unless you, likewise, were military or press or a very attractive girlie! :)

None of us mind banter, but I think that quite a few were offended by your comments on Danny's psychological state. He's obviously very tense, and I've been guilty of making him more so in the past, but it's his site and he's entitled to make the rules. I don't think that your comment on Hug's sexuality was called for, but he's a big boy (allegedly) and can look after himself.

I was trying to lighten things up because they looked like getting rough, but I have failed miserably http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif Still my shoulders are as broad as my stomach so who cares?

I don't think anyone's ganging up on you. I'm not qualified to say whether you're paranoid, but I could make a cheap shot if I liked. I won't....nah, changed me mind, I will...nah, I can't be @rsed. :)

Slasher, Have you been drinking the erudite juice instead of Tiger? Couldn't you be a little bit ruder? People will start taking you seriously...... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

hassel
2nd Jul 2001, 00:56
Slash can I add one more
*be very careful when you have had a drink!

126.9
2nd Jul 2001, 01:19
So, let me get this right then...? Uh, I could bother.....!

I'll leave you all to it.

Paul Wesson
2nd Jul 2001, 02:48
J for Joke, B for Badly taken!

126.9, a load of us had some fun with our names on an anagram 'machine' that gave all possible combinations of our names, you really should try it. Keep you amused for hours!

Loosen up, this is Jet Blast after all! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

[This message has been edited by Paul Wesson (edited 01 July 2001).]

old_cross_bound
3rd Jul 2001, 16:14
Nil nos tremefacit
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
OCB
The natives were not civilized by being virtually exterminated. Most tribes east of the Mississippi have been civilized into extinction. The Trail of Tears, Sand Creek, Waco etc etc were acts of barbarity, period. Given that Andrew Jackson used to hunt the natives for sport I don't think they were well treated by your Government. Only the Seminole were not so stupid as to sign a treaty with your government, every other people were tricked into surrendering land, rights, life the works.

I think you should read more of your nation's history</font>

***That's the ticket! Get a modern day English pilot (who teaches the bible but doesn"t believe it) to give you a history lesson on the abused American indian and the victimization that occured in america a couple of centuries ago. I suppose you are going to tell me the American cowboy ran Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden next, with gun, no less.

ocb

Tricky Woo
3rd Jul 2001, 16:29
Two hundred years ago, OCB? The vile atrocity of Sand Creek happened in 1864, which is 137 years ago. I suggest that you stop counting on your fingers, 'cos any number over ten is a bit difficult using that method.

If there is any other information you require regarding the history of your nation, then please don't hesitate to ask.

TW

old_cross_bound
3rd Jul 2001, 16:41
Tricky Woo,

Sure, who won the American Revolution war?
Thanks!
Tell mum hello!

ocb

flapsforty
3rd Jul 2001, 17:51
Tricky Bwahahahahaha........ :) :)

HugMonster
3rd Jul 2001, 21:15
Who won the American Revolutionary War? Well, if it weren't for the assistance of the Spanish and French, it sure as heck wouldn't have been you! :) Check the records, OCB - the USA has never won a war without outside assistance!

Winston Smith
3rd Jul 2001, 22:03
ocb, I'm with you all the way on this one.

I suggest all those Americans who have a serious problem with European civilization on your continent come back here. That way they wouldn't have to worry about "gun violence", either!

While no one is denying atrocities against the Indians were commmitted, we must not forget that violence breeds violence. I suspect that attacks on isolated families didn't go down particularly well with the settlers, and those who had to witness the ingenious forms of torture the Indians came up with were probably not too much inclined to fight back in a gentlemanly way, either. Of course, the Whites were actually invading the continent, but that doesn't make the Indians angels. They had been combatting each other before, and I don't suppose they developed their style of warfare only as a reaction to their first contact with us. But then, it's the politically correct thing to generally view White people as bad people.

HugMonster
3rd Jul 2001, 22:28
What a load of old bolleaux, Winston.

Native Americans were fighting invaders. They had every right to defend their land by any means available to them.

That they had internal fights prior to combatting the white men does not justify the means adopted against them. Did you happen to notice, last time you read a history book, how many wars there were in Europe prior to the Pilgrim Fathers departing our shores?

The reasons used to wipe them out were exactly what OCB would approve of - "we" had God on our side - "we" were right - that made them wrong, and heathen, and evil, and little more than animals to be hunted down for sport and killed, the same way the white man hunted for sport the aboriginees in Australia, Maoris, Caribs, Arawaks, Aztecs, Incas, Maya, etc. etc. etc.

Oh my!! They fought back? They used nasty methods of torture or killing? I'm sure "we" would never have done that to them!

[This message has been edited by HugMonster (edited 03 July 2001).]

Send Clowns
3rd Jul 2001, 22:36
Winston, dear boy

Some of the First Nation People of America were warlike. Some were peaceful. As was the case in Europe. They lived as they had existed for centuries, in equilibrium with nature. Then the white settlers arrived. Some of them were peaceful, some warlike. The end result was devastation for the aboriginals and a grim life of low incomes, prejudice and widespread alcoholism for their descendents.

I do not suggest an apology from modern America, just an acceptance that this is what happened and a fair chance for the heirs of those the whites' ancestors robbed of their land, culture and means of subsistence.

Winston Smith
3rd Jul 2001, 22:47
HugMonster, please calm down!

I think you have totally misunderstood me.

I said that Whites were the invaders, and I did not deny the Indians any "right" (if there is such a thing) to fight back. I was explicitly talking about the way in which these confrontations occured. As we can witness in the Balkans and Afghanistan today, brutality will harden those exposed to it and make them cruel and unjust themselves.

Please do not misread my posts.

old_cross_bound
3rd Jul 2001, 23:32
Hug,
That's silly. There are sides taken in every war. Where would the Brits be if the United States had not invaded France during WWII?

As far as the savage Indians who according to you probably never laid a hand on a white person, there has been some evidence that before the Indians were on this continent there were some white people here.

It all comes down to owns the universe like I've been saying and you don't want to talk about God so whose the second choice, the devil parading around like an angel of light or who?

You buy into that pagan philosophy of, poor me and the Indians, victimization so easily. I would have thought you were smarter than that.

ocb

Tartan Gannet
4th Jul 2001, 01:37
OCB oh yeah????? Britain had stood alone against Hitler in 1940 and faced him down at the Battle of Britain. Yanks only came in when the Japs kicked your asses at Pearl Harbour. Lend Lease? No free gift but a load of clapped out WW1 destroyers etc for which we had to pay. Bitter Old Joe Kennedy when US Ambassador telling FDR we were finished, and what about the German-American Bund? Same story in WW1 , came in towards the end then claimed the moral victory. Let us also recall US perfidy against Britain, France and Israel at Suez in 1956. Special Relationship? MY A*SE! That's why I support a United Europe with Britain as an integral part, NOT as the "51st State of the Union"

Send Clowns
4th Jul 2001, 01:58
Remember, TG, that Joe Kennedy agreed with Hitler about the Jews. He must have been a bit miffed when Britain refused to make pace with Germany.

I often got the impression American isolationists expected us to - this would have made US intervention in Europe impossible in practice. Many influential isolationists knew or suspected the dispicable nature of the German regime, and realised that at some stage US popular opinion may favour intervention, so they would not like Britain holding out, allowing the possibility that there nation would be able to fight against something they approved of or wanted to keep out of.

------------------
'Me here at last on the ground, you in mid air'

Nil nos tremefacit
4th Jul 2001, 02:10
OCB

Where your knowledge of 'history' comes from, I know not. Of course the native Americans/Indians developed interesting tortures. Scalping was given to them by the white man as a means of proving the number of rivals killed in battle, burning at the stake was introduced by Roman Catholic Spaniards for heretic natives, I once read an account (by white men) of Puritan Christians barbecueing alive a whole tribe (men, women and children) of non-believers. Indeed the Puritans in new England were particularly cruel. General Crook introduced smallpox to the natives (I think it was Sac-Fox) to thin them out a bit.

Talking of scalping, you must know what a squaw scalp is - it is the female pudenda sliced from dead, but often living, teenage girls and women and then mounted on the front of the saddle as a trophy. The 7th Cavalry got everything they deserved for those atrocities - what if it had been your uncivilized pagan teenage daughter who was pinned down raped and mutilated whilst still alive?

Plains Indians were surprised by white man's killing in battle - wars were really great games with 'coup' being counted when striking the opposing tribe's warrior with a stick. Feathers were marked and decorated to celebrate counting coup. Young warriors were stunned to be shot for striking white people with sticks.

I note that your civilisation also involves banning another man's children from speaking their own language (I know that we banned Gaelic, Erse and Welsh - two wrongs don't make a right). People were rounded up and forced into 'reservations' and compelled to live a white lifestyle. Geronimo's crime was leaving his reservation and going back to his native lands.

You talk of the War of Independence. Fifty per cent of whites left the USofA on it's formation and either returned to their homeland or moved elsewhere on the American continent. The entire Mohawk people left their homeland and moved to Canada to benefit from British rule rather than live under the yoke of American democracy (one man, one vote - unless you were a native or black). In fact more native Americans fought on the side of the British than on the side of the colonials.

OCB, on the subject of teaching the Bible, but not believing it, you misunderstand my position. I was a Christian and did teach Sunday School, but it was the complete @rseholes like you that drove me away.

old_cross_bound
4th Jul 2001, 07:01
Tartan Gannet,

I'm waiting to here you start the argument that it's a British flag on the moon. I will give you guys some credit in South American over the Faulkland Islands though. It was close but you somehow managed.

http://www.geocities.com/grace24u/4thofjul.html

old_cross_bound
4th Jul 2001, 07:11
Nil nos tremefacit,

Your off alittle here. Torture goes way back to assyria and rome where they skinned you alive. But they never had anything on BLOODY MARY, did they?

If people like me drove you away then you were never a Christian in the first place. The bible doesn't say to seek other Christians or their approval. It says to seek JESUS CHRIST. Do you know God personally?

http://www.geocities.com/grace24u/4thofjul.html

ocb

angels
4th Jul 2001, 11:42
Well I'll bet Slash never thought his original post would end up being a slagging match (involving such doyen as Huggy, TG and OCB) about the merits or otherwise of wiping out American Indians!
A classic example of a hi-jacked thread!
Well done chaps!

Edited to get rid of poor spelling. Sigh.

[This message has been edited by angels (edited 04 July 2001).]

Slasher
4th Jul 2001, 12:13
Yeh angels I didnt think that either. But Im not to say who posts what on any thread wether its mine or not (except that prized f**kwit natterjack). His action was a hijack! :mad:

[Edited to replace "uc" with "**"]

[This message has been edited by Slasher (edited 04 July 2001).]

Tartan Gannet
4th Jul 2001, 12:45
I try to avoid OCB but he is like the turd in the toilet that wont flush away. If you leave it alone its still there but if you try to get rid of it you only make a far greater mess and end up in the sh*t!

BTW not surprised that the Septics landed on the Moon. No defensive missiles, no dug in enemy forces, a bit like Grenada I suppose and no chance of the usual "blue on blue" bombing their own or other friendly troops.

Falklands. It should never have got to that stage but when it did we sorted it alone. This was the one thing Thatcher did that I fully supported and still do.

Tricky Woo
4th Jul 2001, 13:24
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">OCB wrote: Where would the Brits be if the United States had not invaded France during WWII?</font>

Congratulations, OCB, yet again you prove what an uneducated f**kwit you really are. I don't suppose the reality, that Stalin constructed the biggest war machine that the world had ever seen, quite got as far as Texas, huh? The European war was won by Stalin using his slightly unsubtle Red Army steam-roller. Just about every other Allied country were helpful bystanders in comparison.

I suppose I can't blame you too much, seeing as the history books in the UK also tend to concentrate on the stuff the Brits did, i.e. "The glorious British victory at Dunkirk, was followed by the still greater Battle of Britain victory, then the Russians did some stuff, and then Churchill made a 'V for F**k You' sign and then it all stopped". Hooray for Blighty!

TW

p.s. Kisses from Mum.

Capt Vegemite
4th Jul 2001, 14:56
A brief visit to Cambodia and Saigon in 1972 convinced me we are definitely lucky to have "Uncle Sam" as an ally.
He is without doubt a fast learner and will never get his butt into one of those deals again.

Final 3 Greens
4th Jul 2001, 17:01
O_C_B

Minor point dear boy....

Didn't the Germans INVADE France in World War II?

I thought that the Allies (of whom the USA was a significant member) LIBERATED France?

Velvet
4th Jul 2001, 17:54
Finals, you don't expect ocb to admit to getting anything wrong surely. He'll either ignore, or make some meaningless or irrelevant comment - I mean what the frig does putting a flag on the moon have to do with a WW2 Hollywood film.

His understanding / knowledge of History (American or European), Science or English (literature or language) is so seriously faulty that one wonders exactly what books (super / action hero comics don't count) he reads apart from the Bible.

old_cross_bound
4th Jul 2001, 18:15
angels

Well I'll bet Slash never thought his original post would end up being a slagging match (involving such doyen as Huggy, TG and OCB) about the merits or otherwise of wiping out American Indians!
A classic example of a hi-jacked thread!
Well done chaps!

***Thank you!


Slasher

Yeh angels I didnt think that either. But Im not to say who posts what on any thread wether its mine or not (except that prized f**kwit natterjack). His action was a hijack!

***crying in the beer again?

Tartan Gannet

I try to avoid OCB but he is like the turd in the toilet that wont flush away. If you leave it alone its still there but if you try to get rid of it you only make a far greater mess and end up in the sh*t!

***What humor!

BTW not surprised that the Septics landed on the Moon. No defensive missiles, no dug in enemy forces, a bit like Grenada I suppose and no chance of the usual "blue on blue" bombing their own or other friendly troops.

***Isn't the blue on blue British as well?

Falklands. It should never have got to that stage but when it did we sorted it alone. This was the one thing Thatcher did that I fully supported and still do.

***It was the greatest victory you've had in while don't you agree? Now crawl back into your green slime and regenerate some more thought electrons. We'll see what sprews out again in a couple of days.

Tricky Woo


Congratulations, OCB, yet again you prove what an uneducated f**kwit you really are. I don't suppose the reality, that Stalin constructed the biggest war machine that the world had ever seen, quite got as far as Texas, huh?

***We agreed with Patton in the matter.

The European war was won by Stalin using his slightly unsubtle Red Army steam-roller. Just about every other Allied country were helpful bystanders in comparison.

***Really, that's why Britian has snuggled up to NATO for the last fifty years too, right?

I suppose I can't blame you too much, seeing as the history books in the UK also tend to concentrate on the stuff the Brits did, i.e. "The glorious British victory at Dunkirk, was followed by the still greater Battle of Britain victory, then the Russians did some stuff, and then Churchill made a 'V for F**k You' sign and then it all stopped". Hooray for Blighty!

***Hey what can you say, Churchill was desperate. The Germans were nailing the island and would have sunk it had he not been.


p.s. Kisses from Mum.

***Tell her it's hot and humid in Dallas but the horse racing is splendid.

Capt Vegemite

A brief visit to Cambodia and Saigon in 1972 convinced me we are definitely lucky to have "Uncle Sam" as an ally.
He is without doubt a fast learner and will never get his butt into one of those deals again.

***Nor will he take the French word for it. They are on their own from now on.


Final 3 Greens

O_C_B
Minor point dear boy....

Didn't the Germans INVADE France in World War II?

I thought that the Allies (of whom the USA was a significant member) LIBERATED France?

***I like to think logically in historical order. I've never considered the reverse but it's an interesting concept, go with that.

ocb




[This message has been edited by old_cross_bound (edited 04 July 2001).]

old_cross_bound
4th Jul 2001, 18:23
Velvet

Finals, you don't expect ocb to admit to getting anything wrong surely. He'll either ignore, or make some meaningless or irrelevant comment - I mean what the frig does putting a flag on the moon have to do with a WW2 Hollywood film.

***Ah! My favorite little dish! Clearification as to whose flag is whose is a good thing.

His understanding / knowledge of History (American or European), Science or English (literature or language) is so seriously faulty that one wonders exactly what books (super / action hero comics don't count) he reads apart from the Bible.

***Nice jab, hang in there sweetie.

ocb

Jack The Kipper
4th Jul 2001, 18:44
Texas, Shmexas. It's that old tosser Ed again.

America never did ANYTHING that didn't suit its own purpose.

Oh yes they did. They signed the NNP Treaty and Kyoto Agreement. Hang on a tick - didn't the latest puppet just decide to dishonour those promises?

Plus ca change.......

old_cross_bound
4th Jul 2001, 22:26
Yack The Tipper,

It's not Ed silly. Ask anyone. But you sound like BlueDiamond to me.

ocb

Nil nos tremefacit
5th Jul 2001, 09:20
OCB

Yet again you have convinced me that a lifetime of sin, followed by an eternity in Hell is a small price to pay to avoid even a day in Paradise with you!

As far as I can see, from reading all of the threads that we have shared, Hell will be populated by erudite, amusing and intelligent people the females of which, if I'm lucky, might even [email protected] me. I will enjoy dinner parties, fine wines (until I'm drunk), more parties, flying and bonking. If I go to heaven I will live amongst sober suited, tedious, self-righteous, sanctimonious gits! I won't be allowed to get smashed, I probably won't get laid, there won't be any parties, only whist drives and coffee mornings.

In hell I won't be corrected and patronised by people who assume I know less than them on every subject under the sun yet cannot spell nor produce worthwhile grammar (what is the language of Heaven?), but will enjoy debate with honest folk who like a laugh.

OCB, wherever you spend eternity, don't invite me!

[This message has been edited by Nil nos tremefacit (edited 05 July 2001).]

Tartan Gannet
5th Jul 2001, 11:34
Nil Nos, wonderfully put. The Heaven envisaged by the likes of OCB and these other "born again" types sounds a total let down and as boring as a wet Sunday on the Isle of Sky. Im glad I wont be going there! I do however feel a little bit sorry for OCB's lot if when they die either A) some other lot were right and it's for example an Islamic Heaven or, more likely, B) It's the "big black" and we simply cease to exist and all systems shut down never to be reactivated. It was Omar Khyam who said "Take but the cash in hand and waive the rest, oh the brave music of a distant drum" , sounds about right to me, but unlike OCB I DONT claim any Divine inspiration for that piece of literature.

Blacksheep
5th Jul 2001, 12:55
Woah! Just to rewind a bit. Tricky and OCB seem to be suggesting that when my Dad and his mates had their lives on the line on Operation Overlord that it was an American affair.

Although Eisenhower was the Supreme Allied Commander for the whole of the allied forces everywhere, Operation Overlord was the work of Montgomery (and his staff of course!) who, I am led to believe, was British. The "Andrew" held the lines open across the channel (Rule Britannia!)and only two out of the five beaches were American landing points. The other three beaches were attacked by British and Canadian forces. And as someone already pointed out, the allies did not invade France, they liberated it from German occupation. (A distinction that would not be too obvious to any French people who owned property in Caen at the time)

The Americans didn't win the war, the Germans and the Japanese lost it by taking on too many opponents at once.

Then there's the American claim to have "entered the war" The United States did not "enter the war" they sat on the sidelines making a fat profit from trading with both sides until the Japanese forced them into the war by bombing Pearl Harbour.

The British don't claim a victory at Dunkirk, what we do claim is that by recovering our army we prevented a German victory. If the BEF had not escaped from Dunkirk Britain would have been forced to surrender and the war would have ended there and then.

Just to set the record a little bit straighter. Ho hum...

**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

swashplate
5th Jul 2001, 13:11
Remember the critical glider-borne operation at Pegasus Bridge also, blacksheep.

If that bridge had not been held, the whermacht could've rolled up the entire op.

------------------
Live long and Prosper.....

Velvet
5th Jul 2001, 15:39
Agree entirely nil nos honey - the thought of heaven with ocb and thousands of singing virgin male slaves................. ;)

Revelations 14:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


but that's okay too because there are at least 3 heavens - so I 'spect you could get away for some peace and quiet if you didn't like their singing ;)

2 Corinthians 12 - 2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth ;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

---------------------

On the question of the D-Day Landings - down in Devon where I used to live stands a memorial to hundreds of Americans, - what it avoids stating is that most of the deaths were caused by the inexperienced Americans who panicked and ordered firing and shelling at anything and everything that moved. Equipment and boats were sunk, drowing men who stood little chance of swiming to the beach in freezing water, weighed down with heavy uniforms, weapons etc. Almost no British deaths were recorded. The German E-boats also escaped virtually intact.

They have now recovered and restored one of the tanks that was sunk.

Part of that memorial reads:
'Dedicated by the United States of America in honor of the 749 men of the 4th Infantry Division, the 279th Combat Engineers, and the 70th Tank Battalion, United States Army, who, along with crew members of the eight landing ships, U.S. Navy, perished off the coast of Slapton Sands, Torcross, while participating in Operation Tiger, April 26-28 1944. A training exercise in amphibious landings, Operation Tiger was a prelude to the invasion of Europe on June 6, 1944. This joint rehearsal by British and American forces resulted in a military tragedy in which the support convoy was attacked during the early morning hours by German schnellboots. The surprise attack resulted in the loss of several fully loaded and manned landing craft. '

It was a sad day, as these men were not only badly needed, but generally well-liked and popular in the area. The Americans till then had little or no experience of real war conditions and were young lads or men who up till then had treated it mostly as an overseas jaunt.

They weren't the conquering heroes so loved by Hollywood, but youngsters far from home who frequently paid the ultimate sacrifice so that we can relish the freedoms we now hold. Ken Small in his book, "The Forgotten Dead", tells the story of the disaster that led to the deaths of many young American soldiers and sailors involved in "Operation Tiger", off the coast of Devon.




[This message has been edited by Velvet (edited 05 July 2001).]

HugMonster
5th Jul 2001, 15:50
With you on that one, Velvet. My father had a good mate who died when his glider crashed. The (American) tug driver panicked and pulled the release, cutting the glider away miles short - crashed in the sea, all killed.

old_cross_bound
5th Jul 2001, 22:49
Nil nos tremefacit

OCB
Yet again you have convinced me that a lifetime of sin, followed by an eternity in Hell is a small price to pay to avoid even a day in Paradise with you!

***Come on now, I'm a sinner just like you and if you knew me personally you would probably like me alot. Who knows maybe you already do know me??!

As far as I can see, from reading all of the threads that we have shared, Hell will be populated by erudite, amusing and intelligent people the females of which, if I'm lucky, might even [email protected] me.

***Are you having problems in the female area of your life?

I will enjoy dinner parties, fine wines (until I'm drunk), more parties, flying and bonking. If I go to heaven I will live amongst sober suited, tedious, self-righteous, sanctimonious gits! I won't be allowed to get smashed, I probably won't get laid, there won't be any parties, only whist drives and coffee mornings.

***Heaven is about freedom unimaginable, it's hell where all the bondage and hate and evil and sorrows and pain exist, eternally. Are you a sinner? Jesus came just for sinners.


In hell I won't be corrected and patronised by people who assume I know less than them on every subject under the sun yet cannot spell nor produce worthwhile grammar (what is the language of Heaven?), but will enjoy debate with honest folk who like a laugh.

***You won't even be recognized among all the misery. There won't be anyone to offer you any kindness, gentleness, human dignity etc.. because they will all be in the same torment.

OCB, wherever you spend eternity, don't invite me!

***It's not my invitation. It's Jesus offer and he is patiently waiting for your response through out the life he has generously given to you so far. He loves you and would have died for you if you were the only man on the planet. He has every hai on your head counted and you mean more to him than the universe itself. BTW, he made you in his image also.

ocb

old_cross_bound
5th Jul 2001, 22:55
Tartan Gannet

Nil Nos, wonderfully put.

***A cheerleader, wonderful!

The Heaven envisaged by the likes of OCB and these other "born again" types sounds a total let down and as boring as a wet Sunday on the Isle of Sky. Im glad I wont be going there!

***You don't know that yet. You may get there before me.

I do however feel a little bit sorry for OCB's lot if when they die either A) some other lot were right and it's for example an Islamic Heaven or, more likely, B) It's the "big black" and we simply cease to exist and all systems shut down never to be reactivated.

***If your right, what have I to lose? If I'm right there may be hell to pay and evil even in this world not mention hell is bad enough. Read Luke chpt.16 and you'll see what I mean.


It was Omar Khyam who said "Take but the cash in hand and waive the rest, oh the brave music of a distant drum" , sounds about right to me, but unlike OCB I DONT claim any Divine inspiration for that piece of literature.

***Live for the moment and claim intelligence. What a foolish notion.

God Bless,

ocb

old_cross_bound
5th Jul 2001, 23:05
Blacksheep

Woah! Just to rewind a bit. Tricky and OCB seem to be suggesting that when my Dad and his mates had their lives on the line on Operation Overlord that it was an American affair.

***Well if not where did the influence come from?

Although Eisenhower was the Supreme Allied Commander for the whole of the allied forces everywhere, Operation Overlord was the work of Montgomery (and his staff of course!) who, I am led to believe, was British.


The "Andrew" held the lines open across the channel (Rule Britannia!)and only two out of the five beaches were American landing points. The other three beaches were attacked by British and Canadian forces. And as someone already pointed out, the allies did not invade France, they liberated it from German occupation. (A distinction that would not be too obvious to any French people who owned property in Caen at the time)

***Normandy meant nothing to the war effort I take it from your point of view.

The Americans didn't win the war, the Germans and the Japanese lost it by taking on too many opponents at once.

***So nobody won now. Brilliant!

Then there's the American claim to have "entered the war" The United States did not "enter the war" they sat on the sidelines making a fat profit from trading with both sides until the Japanese forced them into the war by bombing Pearl Harbour.

***And the British prime minister could have cared less, right?

The British don't claim a victory at Dunkirk, what we do claim is that by recovering our army we prevented a German victory. If the BEF had not escaped from Dunkirk Britain would have been forced to surrender and the war would have ended there and then.

***The British sank Germans greatest Battle ship 450 miles southwest of Ireland. That was a good strategy and saved many British lives I would say.

Just to set the record a little bit straighter. Ho hum...

***Keep going, I'm with you!

ocb

old_cross_bound
5th Jul 2001, 23:25
swashplate

Remember the critical glider-borne operation at Pegasus Bridge also, blacksheep.
If that bridge had not been held, the whermacht could've rolled up the entire op.

------------------
Live long and Prosper.....

*** Have I told you about the Alamo yet?


Velvet

Agree entirely nil nos honey - the thought of heaven with ocb and thousands of singing virgin male slaves.................

Revelations 14:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


but that's okay too because there are at least 3 heavens - so I 'spect you could get away for some peace and quiet if you didn't like their singing


***I was looking for the "slave" part and didn't see it. Did you make that up by yourself?

2 Corinthians 12 - 2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

***Thats right, no problem with that at all.Believing in that which you don't see has always appealed to me. Like love and patients and kindness and truth and, and, and.. Velvet honey!

On the question of the D-Day Landings - down in Devon where I used to live stands a memorial to hundreds of Americans, - what it avoids stating is that most of the deaths were caused by the inexperienced Americans who panicked and ordered firing and shelling at anything and everything that moved.

***Are you just making this up as you go or have you thought about it some?

Equipment and boats were sunk, drowing men who stood little chance of swiming to the beach in freezing water, weighed down with heavy uniforms, weapons etc. Almost no British deaths were recorded. The German E-boats also escaped virtually intact.

***I wouldn't doubt it. The British may have been a tad late for the party just like the French were during the American Revolution but what the heck, it was the thought that counted and they really didn't care for the British, did they?.

They have now recovered and restored one of the tanks that was sunk.

***Did they paint it yellow and sing about it being a place to live. "We all live in a yellow submarine!"

Part of that memorial reads:
'Dedicated by the United States of America in honor of the 749 men of the 4th Infantry Division, the 279th Combat Engineers, and the 70th Tank Battalion, United States Army, who, along with crew members of the eight landing ships, U.S. Navy, perished off the coast of Slapton Sands, Torcross, while participating in Operation Tiger, April 26-28 1944. A training exercise in amphibious landings, Operation Tiger was a prelude to the invasion of Europe on June 6, 1944. This joint rehearsal by British and American forces resulted in a military tragedy in which the support convoy was attacked during the early morning hours by German schnellboots. The surprise attack resulted in the loss of several fully loaded and manned landing craft. '

***As the decoy was in place, the wooden duck supplied by you know who.

It was a sad day, as these men were not only badly needed, but generally well-liked and popular in the area. The Americans till then had little or no experience of real war conditions and were young lads or men who up till then had treated it mostly as an overseas jaunt.

***Right! American had never seen WW1 or the Spanish American war or the Civil war or the war for Independence and had no idea what they were getting into.

They weren't the conquering heroes so loved by Hollywood, but youngsters far from home who frequently paid the ultimate sacrifice so that we can relish the freedoms we now hold. Ken Small in his book, "The Forgotten Dead", tells the story of the disaster that led to the deaths of many young American soldiers and sailors involved in "Operation Tiger", off the coast of Devon.

***Hey, all gave some and some gave all. It's an American thing.

ocb

Nil nos tremefacit
5th Jul 2001, 23:58
OCB

You tell me that Hell is where all the bondage is, as if that's some kind of threat! :)

I think you misunderstood about the American casualties in Dorset. They were killed on an exercise off the English coast. Most of them were killed by their own side. None of them had been in WW1, Civil War, War of Independence, the Alamo - as pointed out, they were mere boys.

I think you misunderstood the bit about the beaches. Normandy does feature, it's just that the US took 2 beaches, the Canadians took one and the British/Commonwealth took 2. Pegasus Bridge was an outstanding action by a small British force. as someone else has pointed out elsewhere, the whole shooting match was as nothing to the Russian push into the Eastern territories. Koniev and Zhukov may well have lost over a million men in the race for Berlin - UK lost 250,000 dead in the whole war in all theatres.

OCB, I really think you do not understand history at all.

Tartan Gannet
6th Jul 2001, 13:54
OCB and anyone else interested.

A few weeks ago I spent 14 hours with my father at the deathbed of my mother. This old lady of 85 was no longer able to communicate with us, she had Alzheimers and had suffered the final stroke some 5 days previously. There being no hope of recovery, fatal complications having set in, and her quality of life now being rock bottom, with the informed agreement of my father and I, the hospital staff did all in their power to help her die with dignity, in no physical pain and with both of us by her side. I did observe that she looked peaceful in Death and that all the great look of anxiety she had shown while suffering the ravages of Alzheimers, (her damaged brain no longer enabling her personality to communicate,) and all the inner conflict that must have caused, was now gone. That she was at Peace, physical or otherwise, was good enough for me, and in my personal sadness I rejoiced for her.

Now this experience and its aftermath conviced me of two things. Firstly, it totally reinforced my long held belief in Euthanasia. Secondly, it convinced me that organised religion is at best a crutch for those who need it but of no other use. All the prayers and observances did nothing in the end for my mother. She unlike myself, WAS a religious person, as is my father. I hope there is some continuation of the human mind (call it the soul if you wish) after physical death but I have absolutely no proof one way or the other. All that religion DID do was to give some comfort to my grieving father in the hour of his great affliction and I most willingly went along with all the prayers and services (with no adverse comments) for HIS sake and to help comfort HIM, they did nothing for me. As far as I am concerned my Mother is now gone for ever as I knew her.

So, if Religion helps someone in such circumstances, fair play to it, Prozac is also of some assistance I believe.

Now Im sure OCB will quote HIS book, The Bible, at me. No point. I could also look in the Ghita, Koran, Garanth and any other Holy Book, but I do NOT believe that any of them is more than Man Made. All cultures have some form of "life after death". I suppose its mankind's price to pay for having the knowledge of your own destiny and that we do not exist merely in "real time".

So, I dont believe in OCB's heaven, and like others here would NOT wish to go there. In one thing my late mother is wiser than any of us, if there IS an afterlife she is there and she knows, we can only guess and perhaps hope.

Live and enjoy your life while harming no other being, there may well be no second chance. You cant "go around" and try a second approach in THAT landing.

swashplate
6th Jul 2001, 14:11
OCB:

What has the Alamo got to do with the landing on Pegasus Bridge?

I was simply making a point that British operations were important on D-Day, not the irrelevance that you seem to imply. Interesting how we in Britain have great respect for US sacrifices in WW2/1, but that does not seem to be replicated from your side.......

Tartan:

Totally agree with you - similar exp with my Dad, but that was cancer. Let those who need 'psychological crutches' have 'em, I say......

------------------
Live long and Prosper.....

old_cross_bound
6th Jul 2001, 21:45
Tartan Gannet,

I have to agree with you on that one. Especially the organized religion part.

Christiianity was never meant to be organized religion as we know it today, for the most part. The "church" Jesus was saying "he" would build was and still is "people" who have, and/or who hold out for, hope in the afterlife, not organizations and buildings and rituals or any man made institution.
He is building his church in spite of these things, in the hearts of people and you are invited. That's all I'm saying when you cut through all the crap and no, I don't need to preach to you or quote you some bible verse, you can do that on your own.

Your experience is all the preaching and or teaching you need. Lifes experiences are always the best lessons in my my of thinking as I've had many of them myself.
God Bless and I hope for the best for you and yours,
ocb


[This message has been edited by old_cross_bound (edited 06 July 2001).]

The Mistress
7th Jul 2001, 00:16
Tartan G

Similar experience with both my parents. They too were Baptised, Confirmed and regular Church attenders and sent all 3 of their offspring to Sunday School. Both parents died in agony. I was a fairly regular Church attender until a few years ago, when I was put off the Church of England for ever by people like OCB. My thoughts and feelings at the time of my parents' passing were very similar to your own.

I've mentioned elsewhere on this site that my Dad used to sing on TV and radio. Naturally we have videos and records to remember him by. My Dad may be one of the few people who sang at his own funeral! I'll never forget the totally bizarre experience of hearing my Dad singing loud and clear as the curtains closed on his coffin at the Crematorium. I was gutted and never did find out whose bright idea that was.

I came home from work one night and unexpectedly found my husband listening to one of my Dad's records. Even though my Dad had been gone for several years by then, the memories of hospitals and nursing homes came flooding back and I'm not ashamed to say I drank more than one bottle of wine that night!

You know the feeling - if there is a God why put someone like my Dad through so much pain, etc ...

My thoughts are with you in your time of loss.

OCB

I am, in fact, Mrs Nil nos Tremefacit. In answer to your question - we're doing just fine thanks :)

PS - Perhaps I should mention that the TV programme my Dad used to appear most on was called "Stars on Sunday", which is a religious programme that was broadcast for years in the UK on the Sunday early evening 'Godslot'. i.e. my Dad sang mostly hymns and songs of praise to the Lord. He lived a totally Christian lifestyle.

[This message has been edited by The Mistress (edited 06 July 2001).]

old_cross_bound
7th Jul 2001, 01:10
The Mistress,

Well it's good to meet the Mrs. Nil! You appear to be looking for a little scrap here. I can see you have been reading the post and would like to pigeon hole me; putting me (as an independent thinker) in one of your little convienant however discriminating boxes for future reference.

But as Nil and others have learned, I won't fit in your box and your attempt is in vain, I'm afraid. Not having the ability to discern the truth does that to a person, you know. You do have your work cut out for yourself I would say as I have no intentions of going into your little box now or in the future. If you want to get to know me as a person in the first place though, I'm always good to go.

ocb :)

old_cross_bound
7th Jul 2001, 01:20
Nil nos tremefacit,

It was a bad war and war isn't good. It's part of life though isn't it. It shows that evil exist.
If the British ever help us take back California or Florida or with some invasion from Mexico or Cuba we would certainly appreciate it.
Lets keep what happened in the war in perspective and not forget what it taught us so we can hopefully avoid it in the future.

There is a plan for the elimination of evil buts it's Gods plan revealed in the Christian faith but no where else nor in any other faith, to my knowledge.

ocb

old_cross_bound
7th Jul 2001, 01:29
swashplate,

Getting kind of touchy here aren't we. The Alamo had nothing to do with it. I was just asking you a question. Take a chill pill and get back with me.

Could the same end results (WW2) have taken place in Europe without the USA?

ocb

The Mistress
7th Jul 2001, 02:06
(Finally manages to breath normally, picks self up off floor and wipes tears of laughter from cheeks)

OCB

Errm, does 'box' mean the same in the US as it does in the UK??? If you don't understand, e-mail me and I'll put you in the picture!!!

I wouldn't allow a thick, ignorant little t*sser like you anywhere near my box!!!

I'm not trying to pigeon hole you. I'm not discriminating against you. I have read practically every word you have ever written on this forum (my open mind) and it is clear to the world at large that you are totally stupid. There, I said it.

I don't know truth? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about (as usual). I could tell you some stories about 'truth' that would make your toes and eyebrows curl. I could tell you some true stories about 'Christians' who think having a car with a newer number plate makes them a 'better' person than you (as if). I could tell you true stories about slick liars who wear Air Force uniforms and try to trash your life because they think they are 'better' than you. But hold ... I'm saving all that for the book I'm writing. You'll just have to buy a copy to see if it has a 'happy ending'. I don't know myself yet as the plot is still in progress :)

Real truth will win in the end. I am a winner. I don't need the crutch of a Church and I don't need the delusions of a God to point me in the 'right' direction. That's not arrogance - that comes from life experience, a great family, a man who loves me and a beautiful child. And you have ... ?

May your God go with you. You need him more than I do.


PS - What do you suppose Nil has learned from you? Methinks YOU need to learn from Nil!!!! He is much more knowledgeable and intelligent than you could ever aspire to be.


[This message has been edited by The Mistress (edited 06 July 2001).]

Eric
7th Jul 2001, 04:46
TG, "Live and enjoy your life while harming no other being", so right. That's what I live by and it works for me.
Just think of all the wars, inhumanities and atrocities that have been committed in the name of organised religion throughout the ages.
How can any decent thinking person justify it?

The Mistress
7th Jul 2001, 05:59
Couldn't agree more.

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o

Someone mentioned somewhere else on JB that they thought more than one person was posting under the OCB name. They may be correct. The style of writing changes as often as the mood. It could be that fellow JBers are corresponding, unknowingly, with half the congregation of a fundamentalist 'church' in Texas.

Slash

Yet another thread taken over by you know who. I'm sorry about your cat. I love cats. They could probably teach evangelists a thing or two about real love and devotion. Yeah, I know I have the dexterity to use a can opener and grill fish but a cat's 'faith' in human beings goes way beyond that.

old_cross_bound
7th Jul 2001, 06:46
The Mistress

(Finally manages to breath normally, picks self up off floor and wipes tears of laughter from cheeks)
OCB

Errm, does 'box' mean the same in the US as it does in the UK??? If you don't understand, e-mail me and I'll put you in the picture!!!

***Hey cat lover, do you have claws like the cats you love?

I wouldn't allow a thick, ignorant little t*sser like you anywhere near my box!!!

***Thick! ignorant! little t*sser! (what ever that means) I do think we have a real problem with definition of box. You can e-mail me if you like, it's all on the profile.

I'm not trying to pigeon hole you. I'm not discriminating against you.

***Thick! ignorant! little t*sser!

I have read practically every word you have ever written on this forum (my open mind) and it is clear to the world at large that you are totally stupid. There, I said it.

***Stupid! Your open mind in your first post was openly rude, don't you think? You sound like sweet Velvet.

I don't know truth?

***It is very good for a man to talk about what he does not understand; as long as he understands that he does not understand it.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about (as usual). I could tell you some stories about 'truth' that would make your toes and eyebrows curl. I could tell you some true stories about 'Christians' who think having a car with a newer number plate makes them a 'better' person than you (as if). I could tell you true stories about slick liars who wear Air Force uniforms and try to trash your life because they think they are 'better' than you.

***You see what I mean. Your not talking about the truth, just poor little ole me, the victim. You tell me God exist by taking the negative implying a need for moral justice of some kind!
Besides, it wasn't me who did this and I've been dealt the dirty hand myself, without all the complaining about it. I already know evil exist.

BTW, I don't think I'm too good for anyone, (It's a Christian trait to be humble, silly). I'm not some nonbelieving, church attending pagan who thinks he's Joe Christian either. So the box opens back up and ocb is again released from the clutches Mrs. Nil!

But hold ... I'm saving all that for the book I'm writing. You'll just have to buy a copy to see if it has a 'happy ending'. I don't know myself yet as the plot is still in progress

***Sure, send me a copy of yours and I'll send you a copy of mine. I'm going to write about all these net forum replys and the real responses people share.

Real truth will win in the end.

***I know that, thats what I've been saying all along, but now you are preaching it to me. Go figure! How come everyone wants to preach to me?

I am a winner. I don't need the crutch of a Church and I don't need the delusions of a God to point me in the 'right' direction. That's not arrogance - that comes from life experience, a great family, a man who loves me and a beautiful child. And you have ... ?

***Your a sinner! Your just like me or else you think you are too good for me, which is it?

May your God go with you. You need him more than I do.

***No I don't! We both need him the same. He is the truth!


PS - What do you suppose Nil has learned from you? Methinks YOU need to learn from Nil!!!! He is much more knowledgeable and intelligent than you could ever aspire to be.

***What is all this "methinks" stuff? Everyone says methinks now. It sounds stupid to me.

ocb
***Thick! ignorant! little t*sser! Stupid!...... NOT!

For the record, I'm one person and not many!

Silly!

[This message has been edited by old_cross_bound (edited 07 July 2001).]

Nil nos tremefacit
7th Jul 2001, 11:43
OCB

Don't you talk to my wife like that!

'Box' is a colloquial expression for a c... well, erm,..(goes all embarrassed talking to strangers).

We are 2 nations separated by a common language.

Dorking is a town, BTW, not what you think. Faggots are delicious meat and herb concoctions, best served in gravy - again not what you think. Tosser is not a person who throws the caber at the Highland games, but you really are one.

So you see, methinks, you will have to be more careful when you post on an international forum.

Hey nonny, nonny!

The Mistress
7th Jul 2001, 19:50
Hi OCB

I can't be bothered to cut and paste, so, taking your comments in turn:

Of course I have claws. You know what they say "the female of the species ..." (my tongue is in my cheek BTW). Sometimes I file my claws and paint them with nice pale pearly stuff, but mostly I'm too busy.

If I were trying to pigeon hole you I would probably say that you were a Bible bashing Evangelist, but I didn't. What I did was express personal opinion - something you do continually on this forum.

My mind is open. I continue to learn new things everyday. I also continue to be amazed and sometimes shocked by the behaviour of some people who regularly attend Church and think of themselves as Christians. Don't (necessarily) take my comments personally. I am actually thinking of the people who live in my home town.

Of course I was openly rude. You dragged me into this with a flippant remark you made to Nil. Don't bother waiting for an apology. As I said, I've read virtually everything you have written. If you are 'teaching' us then I should easily obtain a Masters Degree in "How to Insult our Fellow Humans". You taught me well Obeone :D

No, I'm not Velvet. I've never met the lady, although I have seen her photo's on the Bash forum. I've also read many of her posts. Perhaps I've picked up some things from her too.

Are you paranoid? When talking about the "truth" I was not referring to you. I was not even thinking of you. I was talking about my real life experiences and people I have met in person. I've never met you.

I know that true evil does exist. Some of it lives walking distance from my house. I like your expression "nonbelieving, church attending pagan who thinks he's Joe Christian". Can I add to that patronising, condescending, arrogant and narcissistic. Don't get all hot and bothered OCB - I'm talking about 'Christians' I've met face to face.

Please - stop talking about boxes. I'm trying to keep a straight face here! Don't worry, I have absolutely no desire to 'clutch' you!

Nope. Can't send you any freebies - I have a very expensive teenage spending machine to support. All donations gratefully received :D

Why does everyone want to preach to you? Haven't you figured it out yet? It could be that you nearly always come back with a smart mouthed, ill-informed response. It could be that you continually try to shove your "truth" down our throats. If you are going to do this you have to accept that many will respond in kind.

Well spotted! Yes, I am a sinner. You live your life your way. I'll live my life my way. I'm the product of the "sex and drugs and rock and roll" era ... I never got into drugs!

I stopped being a regular Church attender about 4 years ago for some very strong reasons.

Hey, look - I'm still alive.

Hey, look - I haven't been struck down by lightning.

Hey, look - I have a family who love and comfort me.

Hey, look - I still have my health, am able to work and my sense of humour remains in tact (most of the time).

Hey, look - I've travelled the world and learned a lot about the beliefs of different races/cultures and their "truths".

Why do you think your way is the "truth". It is something I can glady live without.

Goodness - look at the length of my post. Something else I've learned from you OCB. See - I AM listening :D

Velvet
7th Jul 2001, 22:31
Mistress, well said though I've given up with ocb. Like you I'm rarely rude unless provoked beyond measure - and also like you I am quite capable of standing up to offensive bullies. Apart from being unjustified, untrue and defamatory, I found what he accused me of, and the personal names he called me offensive and nasty without the redeeming features of wit or humour. I now refuse to respond directly to him - no matter how much honey or vinegar he uses. He isn't either interesting or entertaining enough - and I'd rather respond directly to those whose posts he so freely borrows from. They, like you have the advantage of being original and worth reading - which is probably why he repeats them.

Methinks ocb could do with some proper English lessons - he is wont to misunderstand certain 'English terminology' which isn't in the American parlance. I think he once tried to give Nil nos some Latin lessons ;)

old_cross_bound
8th Jul 2001, 03:05
Velvet

Mistress, well said though I've given up with ocb. Like you I'm rarely rude unless provoked beyond measure - and also like you I am quite capable of standing up to offensive bullies.

***I just saw your picture Velvet honey on the bash photo thread. Your the firery redhead I take it.

***Beyond measure? How do you measure these things accurately?

Apart from being unjustified, untrue and defamatory, I found what he accused me of, and the personal names he called me offensive and nasty without the redeeming features of wit or humour.

***When? I've never said anything about you I have not said about myself. How many times do you need to hear that?

I now refuse to respond directly to him - no matter how much honey or vinegar he uses. He isn't either interesting or entertaining enough - and I'd rather respond directly to those whose posts he so freely borrows from.

***Sound like send clowns now.

They, like you have the advantage of being original and worth reading - which is probably why he repeats them.
Methinks ocb could do with some proper English lessons - he is wont to misunderstand certain 'English terminology' which isn't in the American parlance. I think he once tried to give Nil nos some Latin lessons

***Methinks!!!!! How nasty are you going to get here, sweet velvet?

***It's got to be the red hair? It's that gene pool thing I suppose. Oh well, you have five stars on your rating and I have one (suprised!)
The world loves you but I'll still call it like I see it. We're all sinners and that includes me and you dear.

Kingdoms cannot change until man changes! I heard it somewhere but can't remember where. I suppose Hug will be around shortly to accuse again. LOL!

Mistress should be fun, we'll see! She's got some long claws and a couple of frying pans behind her back but I'm not sure what else. Hopefully endurance! Enjoy!

ocb

[ 07 July 2001: Message edited by: old_cross_bound ]

OzExpat
8th Jul 2001, 07:46
Pity about what's happened to SLASH's thread. When shall I return to this thread? NOT AGAIN!

old_cross_bound
8th Jul 2001, 10:49
OzExpat,

Are you really interested in saving this thread for some honorable reason or do you just like complaining?
Have you ever thought of being a leader in this area and directing the substance of your remark back on subject?

LOL!

ocb

Tartan Gannet
8th Jul 2001, 13:04
To try to get back to Slasher's original topic after hijacking by Archie Bunker's Vicar on Earth.

Having posted to Jet Blast since Sept 2000 I have derived that Danny Fyne does NOT like sexually explicit postings on what is HIS creation, PPRune.

Now to me that is fair enough. The problem is that is NOT spelt out clearly what constitutes an infraction. I believe that way back in days of yore in England it was said that certain legal principles "varied as to the length of the Lord Chancellor's nose", that is these were subject to change in interpretation depending who was Chancellor. (Davaar, is that correct?). Thus it seems to be with postings of a sexual nature on Jet Blast. The "Hotel Lobby Test" is not particularly useful as what may be offensive in the lobby of some posh hotels or in some cultures is a perfectly good acceptable joke in others. There are jokes and anecdotes I would relate in my work's canteen that I would not at Festive Board after a Lodge Meeting and vice versa.

So unless Danny gives a definitive list of forbidden topics and references, and as for technical and other reasons he does not wish to password Jet Blast, then I feel it is better to leave out the sexual jokes, gags, references etc.

Now as I have said repeatedly, I am no prude or wowser and enjoy a typical "man's" joke as well as the rest but I also subscribe to the "when in Rome" principle. Danny's website, Danny's rules.

old_cross_bound
8th Jul 2001, 18:29
Tartan Gannet

To try to get back to Slasher's original topic after hijacking by Archie Bunker's Vicar on Earth.


***LOL!

Celtic Emerald
8th Jul 2001, 18:52
TG

When you say you subscribe to 'When in Rome do as the Romans do', do you subscibe to when in Rome it is okay to go around pinching women on the you know what as the Italiens do :D

Careful mate with this attitude you might cause the Fall of Rome worse the Ruin of PPRuNe ;)

Emerald

Geez those new Message Icons look like a load of retards to me :(

Tartan Gannet
8th Jul 2001, 20:03
Now C.E., that's an interesting question. :D

If the mores of a country permit a certain action and I am a visitor, then should I overide my own conditioning and participate in the same way as if they proscribe an activity such as drinking alcohol in Saudi I would have to curtail my own habits and comply with local custom?

(Picture of fat bearded man getting punched in the face after pinching a plump woman's bottom- NOT that sort of activity to indulge in at the Hotel Lobby even in Roma).

On a more serious note I still feel that Danny sets the rules and we must abide by them.

old_cross_bound
8th Jul 2001, 21:23
So when in Rome do as the Romans?

Learn to adapt to the language and to the customs and while your at it, to the morality and religious beliefs and be sure and change it from time to time according to the times your living in.

Is this what some of you think? If so, then your flying without tail flaps, your a boat without an anchor, a tree without a root, wouldn't you agree?

Danny is in charge and his rules go here. If I had a problem with them I would choose to leave rather than compromise what I believe but a leaf in the wind just blows wherever doesn't it?

Adapting and improvising is for the warlord and the unknowledgable not the wise.

ocb

Tartan Gannet
8th Jul 2001, 23:39
If I was silly or unfortunate enough to visit Texas I would of course abide by the local customs and mores. "When In Dallas" I suppose. I wouldn't want to be shot by some of your "good old boys". :mad:

Celtic Emerald
9th Jul 2001, 01:18
TG

It wasn't you I was attacked by a while ago on 'Irelands Eye' was it? For the unitiated 'Irelands Eye' is a small island a off Howth north of the city which is on the flightpath for aircraft landing at Dublin :) I was attacked by a bird out there, brought it's talons right across the top of me head. Alot of people said it could back been a gannet, I just knew it was white :confused: but I could have sworn it was wearing a kilt ;)

It was worse than a scene from Hitchcock 'The Birds' :eek:

Emerald

old_cross_bound
9th Jul 2001, 03:38
Tartan Gannet

***So if you came to Texas, and found yourself around a bunch of gun carrying Christians, you would just blend in nicely and agree with those like myself instead of stating your true feelings and thoughts on the subject? If so, why?

Or would you be as assertive as you are here on Pprune about your own belief system, when you arrived here?

Capt Vegemite
9th Jul 2001, 03:43
While the limericks were terrible,you would have to concur Mr PpruNe that this is getting bloody dreary. :mad:

Tartan Gannet
9th Jul 2001, 09:08
OCB the whole concept of "gun carrying Christians" is such a negation considering the message of Peace from the founder of that religion, just look at how he reacted when the High Priest's Servant had his ear struck off in the Garden of Olives , "Those who live by the sword...."

You confirm to me the condemnation of such types as "Christless Calvinists" by Robert Burns and that there are TWO types of "Christian" . The ordinary people of the mainstream religions, Anglicans, (Episcopal), Methodists, RCs etc who live their faith with no rancour for others and the Fundamentalists who suffer from their own bigoted creed and try to inflict it on others.

If I never leave the UK for the rest of my days may I never go to Texas.

HugMonster
9th Jul 2001, 10:04
Tartan, I suspect that in Old Kross Burner's philosophy, that saying has become "He who lives by the sword gets shot by him who does not"

Evening Star
9th Jul 2001, 12:36
Well, I never thought the day would arrive when I find myself agreeing with TG :) :) !

Tricky Woo
9th Jul 2001, 18:31
Ditto.

Velvet
9th Jul 2001, 18:38
Anyone care to lay odds whether ocb would risk his life for his beliefs and go to one of the more fundamentalist Islamic states (like Afghanistan) and tell them they are all going to hell in a basket. In his own rather kindly and benevolent way of course. :D

Nil nos tremefacit
10th Jul 2001, 02:36
You all just reminded me that when in Rome you do as the Romans. Of course it is a very old saying and there is no real way of knowing which Romans. Rome ruled by the Popes, Rome ruled by Mussolini, Rome ruled by Caligula or Nero?

Personally I think we have to look at that brief, but probably very happy, time in Roman history when Rome became a pornocracy. After a succession of iffy rulers, Rome was run by prostitutes! I kid you not! I don't think that the world would be much worse off if prostitutes ran it today. If we eliminate the pimps then we would find that prostitutes are by and large self-employed, sub-contracting small businesswomen in a very succesful service industry. They have a network of high powered political and business clients who would do anything for a free blow job. There is no record in history of prostitutes as a group attacking any other group or invading any other country. Indeed prostitutes are a caring profession who provide for those less fortunate for a reasonable fee (so I'm told).

Cynthia Payne has more experience of dealing with people of all classes than Tony Blair has.

Remember, 'Vote Slapper' - you know it makes sense!

old_cross_bound
10th Jul 2001, 08:31
What a bunch of yelping hounds!

Tartan Gannet

OCB the whole concept of "gun carrying Christians" is such a negation considering the message of Peace from the founder of that religion, just look at how he reacted when the High Priest's Servant had his ear struck off in the Garden of Olives , "Those who live by the sword...."
You confirm to me the condemnation of such types as "Christless Calvinists" by Robert Burns and that there are TWO types of "Christian". The ordinary people of the mainstream religions, Anglicans, (Episcopal), Methodists, RCs etc who live their faith with no rancour for others and the Fundamentalists who suffer from their own bigoted creed and try to inflict it on others.

If I never leave the UK for the rest of my days may I never go to Texas.

***So you found another pigeon hole you would like to stick ocb in I see. Good home work though, I encourage you to continue. I'm not into Truth without Love though. Burns should have named it Loveless Christians.

Sorry, I'm not a hyper Calvinist but your getting close. Try Orthodoxy, you might find the truth that the inerrancy of the bible is the beginning of learning not the end.
Oh I forgot, that would exclude you as being autonomous, a god in your own eyes, when it comes to truth, wouldn't it.

If the bible is false then the entire religion is false silly and there isn't a moral code of any kind for society to use except the blowing winds of the time.

The liberal protestant groups you mentioned: where I use to attend, are in the business of dumbing down folks concerning the truth not helping them. Organized religion wasn't mentioned by Jesus, sorry.

As for the sword thing, those who live by the sword are the goverments with nuclear weapons not some individual called to be good a steward of his family and friends. You didn't mention what the scriptures said about stewardship I noticed. This gets right to the heart of the issue you are driving at.

Velvet,

Lets go to Iraq together and we will both state our true beliefs and we'll see who squeaks first. Want to? My ancestors died at the stake of Bloody Mary. What did your ancestors stand for. What do you stand for as far as that goes?
BTW, if this is Gods will for me, I'll die when it's my time. Notice: I'm old cross bound, get it!

Nil,

Which would you prefer, Sodom or Gomorrha?

ocb :eek:

[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: old_cross_bound ]

Arm out the window
10th Jul 2001, 09:07
Err...may I ask a question there OCB?

Seeing as this is fundamentally an aviation forum, what's this bizzo about 'tail flaps'?

They must make aircraft differently in your part of the world.

Roller Merlin
10th Jul 2001, 18:24
Arm Out..,
from the Esteemed PPrune Dictionary of Ancient Aviation References and Terminology (London, 1963):

Tail Flaps: Aerodynamic control surfaces attached to a barge @rse gluteus maximus, that permit a bloated posterior to be manipulated whilst on final approach. :D

Tricky Woo
10th Jul 2001, 20:08
OCB,

I'm dreadfully sorry to hear about the death of all your ancestors. You must be awfully upset. When did you hear about this? Did it happen suddenly? It's alright, you're amongst (ahem) friends, so you can let the tears flow. There, there...

On a brighter note: All my ancestors are absolutely hale and hearty. A relief, huh? Your dreaful news has given me such a jolt, let me tell you. I must see my own ancestors far more often from now on.

TW

p.s. Mum say hello. She asks if she can have a little oil for her lawn-mower. She heard that your Texan oil is the best, so that's good enough for her.

old_cross_bound
11th Jul 2001, 04:20
Tricky Poo,

I'm tickled you are "dreadfully sorry", Tricky.

Tell mum hello! :D

ocb

Bob Hawke
11th Jul 2001, 05:22
We must respect OCB's religion, but only in the sense, and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful, his children are smart, and Texas is the land of God's chosen people.

Arm out the window
11th Jul 2001, 06:29
Not a pretty mental picture, Roller M!

Capt 4 Bars floating as it were on a jelly-like whopper of a bum, a big fan on the cockpit roof blowing downwards to give some airflow past his gyro-stabilised 'Tail Flaps', which are working constantly to keep his date centred on the seat as he guides his Jumbo down the ILS on a turbulent day.

I think it could catch on!

old_cross_bound
11th Jul 2001, 08:34
Tartan Gannet,
says,
You confirm to me the condemnation of such types as "Christless Calvinists" by Robert Burns and that there are TWO types of "Christian" . The ordinary people of the mainstream religions, Anglicans, (Episcopal), Methodists, RCs etc who live their faith with no rancour for others and the Fundamentalists who suffer from their own bigoted creed and try to inflict it on others.

***I believe I'll go buy and read this one. I'd like to see what those who think they are smart enough to judge Calvinist have on their mind, maybe even on some agenda who knows.

You know, when you judge others this way, you are saying you are on some moral high ground as you think God see's you ( who by the way is infinitely moral and righteous.) So if the Pope on a human scale from 1 to 1,000,000 rates at 988,000 and You rate at 854,000 and I rate at 3, what does that compare to infinity?
From and infinite perspective, we all kind of look the same wouldn't you agree?
The book should be interesting, thanks.

Arm out the window,

I'm reading your post but I have not seen anything worth commenting on yet. If you decide to really think about something interesting and then expressing your thoughts in a logical, reasonable and comprehensible manner, I'll try to reply. Until then nonsense is just nonsense, I agree!

;)

Hi Bob,

When will you decide to get a real life?

ocb

Arm out the window
11th Jul 2001, 08:55
ocb,

I merely used a light-hearted comment to draw attention to the fact that this is an aviation-related forum, and anyone who knows anything about aircraft also knows that the term 'tail flaps', in relation to aircraft, is meaningless.

Therefore, I conclude that you know little or nothing about aviation.

Please refute this if you can.

Tartan Gannet
11th Jul 2001, 09:08
OCB I dont know why I waste my time and effort on you but for the record I dont have a lot of time for the Doctrines and Dogmas of Roman Catholicism either and the way it thinks for and dictates to its adherents. NOBODY thinks for me, tells me what I can or cannot read, etc, etc. I would have thought that this would be clear by now. However, given a choice of YOUR miserable sort of religion and the RCs I would say GOD BLESS THE POPE!

old_cross_bound
11th Jul 2001, 22:42
Tartan Gannet,

God has all of eternity as far as time for you goes. He can touch your heart, revealing himself to you, at any time should he choose to do so. Do you know him? I'm not RC as far as that goes but the point was, it doesn't matter how righteous someone thinks he is, it doesn't compare to infinity does it.

ocb
;)

flyboy_33
12th Jul 2001, 09:27
Just got back from my flying holiday thru Queensland, Australia. Gee I have missed pprune a lot. Please to all you good people out there. Please do not put all christians in the same boat as this old fart OCB. I confess to being a christian (SHOCK HORROR) and along with a lot of other people including my father (he is a minister/priest) we are shocked at what little certain people know about the church. Don't even start to think that I am supporting you OCB. Exactly the opposite, I have turned away from the church much to my father's dissapointment because of stupid ppl like you. They get on their high horse and preach damnation to all that won't believe. The BIBLE clearly states that we each have a decsion to make regarding our own lives. Some ppl will believe othersa will not. However, I will support anyone that tries hard to live their lives to the best. Enjoy life and help others is good and goes a long way to making this society a better place. Being a Texan that has to carry a " 9mm in each hip pocket and an AK-47 in the back of every truck or car seat" to have a "respectful and peaceful" society is not my idea of fun. If you don't have the guns in the first place you won't have the fear thatr you don't have ppl's respect. I enjoy my lifestyle and work hard to get where I am and I know that something in the afterlife is going to be well and good. But right now bring on the party and let me enjoy life and my girlfriends company and to all that may make it to the OZ Bash next year, I will be waiting with a coldie or a bourban for ya's till then safe flying all and OCB get a grip and start actually living life and knowing a bit about history!!

FB

flyboy_33
12th Jul 2001, 09:38
:mad:
Oh yeah I have also studied many other religions so to speak and the American Indian religion is the best of them all in regards to living life in a certain way. They are strict on the fact that they cannot even take the life of an enemy unless they have prior sanctification from the Great Spirit. So the fact that they were so ruthlessly driven from their native lands was an instant invite to the wars that ensued. Like the native poeple of australia, they were directly linked to the land and they knew absolutely every part of it. They were one with the land and they where driven so ruthlessly from it by white poeple that they became what our aboriginal people have done. Straight to drinking and prostitution and murder. It was not their fault, they were thrust into a world they are not ready for and have not been able to adapt to this bleak white man's world of deceit and madness that we see today. The prime example has to be you OCB, and your efforts to "Convert" everyone to your "Christain Faith" I really do believe you are one of the triple K and obviously as smart as one. I know I shouldn't attack a fellow ppruner so straight forwardly but I am sick of the bullsh!t you sprout from youe @rse that I can no longer sit idlely by and watch.

FB :mad:

Winston Smith
12th Jul 2001, 13:20
Sure, flyboy_33,

we all know that "Whitey" is responsible for all the evil on Earth, don't we? Why not lead by example and remove yourself from our midst?

[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Winston Smith ]

Velvet
12th Jul 2001, 14:39
Winston - not a good response to a very fair summing up of what happened to the aboriginal peoples of both America and Australia.

If you have an opposing opinion - by all means state it, if you know different. But don't just dismiss the person with a rather over-reactive tantrum.

[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Velvet ]

flyboy_33
12th Jul 2001, 15:49
Did I actually say that white people where the actual cause of evil? I don't think so. All I said was that white men changed the happenings of certain countries significantly I have no problems accepting the blame for my ancestor's errors. That I have to live with. My great grandfather was murdered by aboriginal people in australia! and he was just a simple merchant. It was neither his fault nor the aboriginal people defending their natural burial ground. But I have the feeling that you are a cohort of OCB's. You seem to take his side in a number of threads I have recently read. (I had plenty of time today) I have no qualms anymore with native people and enjoy many freinds that are called aboriginal or American Indian. Put your mask back on K man or smell the roses in the real world. It is a nice place to live if you just respect people without having to use your petty little guns. You have literary skills (I think) so use them!

FB :confused:

[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: flyboy_33 ]

Tartan Gannet
12th Jul 2001, 20:05
I will probably regret asking this but tell me OCB, how exactly DID God manifest himself to you? Did some inner voice tell you that you had found God, did you actually SEE a vision, if so what? Was it the Old Testament Jehovah, or Jesus Christ? If the latter then what did he look like, the typical Christ painted and sculpted by Eurocentric artists, tall, long brown hair, white, long face, beard, or the more likely and accurate swarthy, small man of what would now be Palestinian origin? Was it any of this or did you either read that book The Bible and feel that it had the answer for YOU or did you follow the preaching of some minister or pastor? Since you are so sure of yourself in this regard I feel that we ought to know what basis you have for your belief and what makes you want to spout it so frequently on every Forum you can find whether people are interested or not.

Before you ask I think for myself and have come to my own conclusions on most things in life but DO NOT state that they are the way to peace, harmony, salvation, etc, etc, etc for anyone else. They suit me that's all. Nor for that matter do I have any "guru" or follow anyone's preaching or teaching.

To everyone else in PPrune land, peace be with you.

Winston Smith
12th Jul 2001, 22:18
flyboy_33,

No, I'm certainly not "a cohort of OCB's" (and much less a Christian, at that), and I don't even possess "petty little guns". I just haven't joined in bashing him regardless of what he actually says. I'm well aware of the fact that some of my fellow PPRuNers refuse to respond to him due to slanderous remarks he allegedly made, but since I have neither the time nor the stomach to delve into tons of old threads I'll have to give him the benefit of a doubt.

Velvet was probably right to say that I was "rather over-reactive". Apart from simply being fed up with this idiotic white self-hate craze, I responded as rudely as I did because I don't like your tone at all. Didn't like it in "TOO MUCH NOISE", either. Why do you think that a lot of people (including Velvet) wondered if you were a wind-up, too?

old_cross_bound
13th Jul 2001, 00:04
flyboy_33,

Actually I'm not all that old. (See the profile)You seem to be rather angry and would like to take it out on someone here at Pprune. I'm not offended in the least; your remarks were alot more emotional than anything else and you have Velvet supporting you for whatever that's worth so go with that. I'm here if you want to talk seriously though.

I'm serious when I say we are all sinners because it's the truth. When I say things like you're a murderer and a liar and a thief etc... you are...so am I.... that's the truth. If we have ever committed one sin, we've committed them all. We are sinners!! Jesus came to help us with this condition in our conscience and has made his offer.

Most indians have a natural pagan religion that denies a creator God if you want to talk about it or explore what they "in truth", believe. The indians I know however are Christians by choice and no one shoved it down their throats, sorry.


Tartan Gannet

I will probably regret asking this but tell me OCB, how exactly DID God manifest himself to you? Did some inner voice tell you that you had found God, did you actually SEE a vision, if so what?

***If you read about Elijah, in the book of Kings, when he was running from Jezzebel he hid in a cave and you can see what I'm talking about here. While in the cave, an earthquake came and God wasn't there and a whirlwind and God wasn't there etc..and then a small quiet voice and God was there.

When I was a teenager just under 30 years ago, I had this experience, a small quiet voice came to my heart saying yes, I am here, proving to me that something outside of myself existed, something, very good, very kind, very wonderful and very real, did in fact, exist.
I had a sense of inner peace, unconditional acceptance and a real lifting of burdens, concerning my acceptance into the kingdom of God and although I knew nothing at the time about any religion other than being raised in the methodist church somewhat, I knew I was forgiven (released) for everything I had ever done against my conscience and others. I was accepted just the way I was by God, into a real eternal reality above and beyond this world and life. I was born again as the scripture discribes it.
You can have this too. It's a choice and a very serious choice not just a mental assent but from your heart. You can know God when your heart is ready and willing and God touches you. He stands at the door to every mans heart knocking and waiting and has been for 2000 years now since pentacost. It's for real not some illusion.

Was it the Old Testament Jehovah, or Jesus Christ?

***Yes Jesus was and is 100% God and 100% man. God mainfested himself in the person of Jesus, the incarnation of God.

If the latter then what did he look like, the typical Christ painted and sculpted by Eurocentric artists, tall, long brown hair, white, long face, beard, or the more likely and accurate swarthy, small man of what would now be Palestinian origin?

***Read Isaiah 53. He was not goodlooking at all, probably around 5'3" tall maybe taller and had nothing that would attract men to him physically. It was and is, all on the inside, in the heart when dealing with God.

Was it any of this or did you either read that book The Bible and feel that it had the answer for YOU or did you follow the preaching of some minister or pastor?

***Didn't learn about Christianity until I was older. I've been reading the bible for about twenty years now. No pastors, no ministers, just other believers who I share the same thing in common with, a conversion experience.

Since you are so sure of yourself in this regard I feel that we ought to know what basis you have for your belief and what makes you want to spout it so frequently on every Forum you can find whether people are interested or not.

***I'm not guessing about something farout in the universe but just a simple, very real, experience, I have had. That's all. I can verify the experience with the bible itself and this is why I know Christianity to be the only real truth among the rest in the world and yes I have looked into most of the other religions and made comparisons.

Before you ask I think for myself and have come to my own conclusions on most things in life but DO NOT state that they are the way to peace, harmony, salvation, etc, etc, etc for anyone else. They suit me that's all. Nor for that matter do I have any "guru" or follow anyone's preaching or teaching.

***Good! I can't disagree with that.

To everyone else in PPrune land, peace be with you.

***and truth and love also. :)

ocb

[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: old_cross_bound ]

old_cross_bound
13th Jul 2001, 00:37
Velvet

***Hey sweetheart, ... yea you!.. with the frying pan behind your back. Are you ready now, to swing at the next ocb comment you can find?

It's that firery red head gene, I'm telling you!

First, there were no aboriginal people here. Wrong country, darling.

Second, there were a bunch of uncivilized Indians who had been through warfare, fighting with each other for hundreds of years.

Third, they are now civil and we have peace and safty here, "thanks" to the male dominated culture of the American West and the American cowboys (my more recent ancestors) who are real hero's and "no thanks" to the comfy homeland you currently reside in.

Forth, feel free to leave the comfy homeland for an adventurous visit to the male dominated culture of Texas, where the criminals fear the gun carrying public more so here than any other place on the planet, dear! :D

ocb

Tartan Gannet
13th Jul 2001, 08:49
Thank you OCB for an honest and straightforward answer to my latest questions to you.

I wont bother you on your latest thread.

However you perceive it, go in Peace.


:)

old_cross_bound
13th Jul 2001, 09:08
Tartan Gannet,

Thank you for the honest question and the honest reply. I appreciate it and the respect you have shown. I am what I believe and I've come to terms in peace with my maker. Go in peace.
Your servant in Christ Jesus, ocb

flyboy_33
14th Jul 2001, 08:50
Ocb,
It is not that I against spreading the word of God. It is how people spread it that pisses me off. A constant blast of doom. I agree with you about the fact that there is only one Dominant Creator. However like I said in a previous response to this thread, I have done extensive research and almost joined a soix tribe for their beliefs. They do beleive in only one Spirit, the Great Spirit. And he sent a buffal child to save His people from the unspeakable evil one. I am not saying that heirs is the right way but they have very similar beleifs to that of christianity.

Winston, I don't think you understand anything of what I am actually saying in my respnses. I am not saying either of the two cultures is responsible for what has happened but we do actually have to take some responsibility for what our white culture has done. I am just aware of the errors of both cultures and how we can both help to make our future bright for us all. I am just a young kid compared to some of you and I may not have much of a say in what goes on. But I am aware of what can and probably will happen when I get older.

If you can't see this then you probably will never understand me. I am just different and that is just as it should be

Enjoy the skies everyone and peace to all

FB :p

GeneralAviation
14th Jul 2001, 13:45
It's raining again

Ocb - why are you not able to check your facts before you start criticising others.

Simple check of any dictionary would save you making a fool of yourself yet again:

Aboriginal (adjective) = existing from the earliest known times

Now unless you're claiming that the native peoples of the American continent weren't there centuries before the white man, I think once again you've opened mouth without engaging brain.

The aboriginal indians of America were no more uncivilised than the white people who displaced them. Many of the tribes co-existed in harmony with their neighbours and the land. It was the white immigrants who brought the most death and destruction with their ever increasing numbers and the complete lack of concern for anyone but their own selfish need for more and more resources.

It was the white buffalo hunters who decimated the millions of bison that roamed the plains. Approximately 60million existed at the beginning of the 19th Century, within 50 years they were virtually exterminated with only a few hundred left.

Entire tribes were uprooted from their homes, and forcibly re-settled. Many massacred if they resisted. Men, women and children indiscriminantly slaughtered because they didn’t want to leave the land where generations of them had lived, mostly peacefully. US Forces killed or harassed them during the 1840 – 1880 period so that more white settlers could travel west.

The Indians were crowded on the Great Plains by a policy of containment by the US Government and Army, many of them totally unused to this environment and suffering from white ailments to which they had no immunity. Many of the Treaties signed in good faith by the Indian Leaders were ignored and repeatedly broken by the Army, settlers and Government Officals (especially the Indian Bureaux representatives).

To the average white settler the only good Indian was a dead one, and few were aware of the disparate nature of the Indian Nations. They despised them as heathens and since they were considered sub-human they could treat them with a total disregard for anything approaching normal behaviour. Additionally, this land which had been promised as sanctuary was increasingly encroached upon by more white settlers.

Yes ocb, I’m sure your recent ancestors were involved in this slaughter – nothing to be proud of though. Your relative peace and safety was bought at a cost of thousands of innocent lives, and destruction of the environment and extermination of many native flora and fauna. I say relative, because what peace and safety is there if you live in such fear that you need weapons to guard against intruders.

Your diatribes here hurt someone I care about very much, at a time when she was already greatly burdened; doesn't matter whether you felt provoked or under threat. Much of what you said was untrue, unnecessary and unjust. Many people read these boards who were not registered and the consequences of our outpourings are not always obvious to us - but we are responsible for what we say and do and what happens as a result of that.

You may try to justify it now, but unfortunately it is too late to put right the harm you caused. So next time you make personal attacks on posters, remember every word, every deed goes in the scales for judgement at the end of your life. Make sure the scales are not weighed too heavily on the negative side.

Winston Smith
14th Jul 2001, 17:38
flyboy_33,

I perfectly agree with you that "our white culture" has not necessarily been good for others. That's why "multi-culturalism" doesn't work.

By the way, being 24 I also am "just a young kid compared to some of you", as you put it.


GeneralAviation,

Ever heard of "Kennewick Man"? - But then, all this arguing about who was "there first" on an unbelievably vast continent is pointless anyway.

GeneralAviation
14th Jul 2001, 18:41
You mean the contention that the Kennewick skeleton dated to around 8000bc may well have been from a Caucasian or white man. There is no evidence to support this ,just that it doesn’t resemble the modern American – however, it is contemporaneous with other paleindian skeletons. That this may well have been the result of migrations thousands of years ago from Asia to North America does not justify the wholesale slaughter of native Americans by immigrant Europeans – just because the Indians were in the way.

Yes, why couldn’t the white invaders allow the Indians to have some land of their own – why did they always want more. No, on that unbelievably vast continent, there wasn’t enough room for the Indians and they needed to be subdued or converted or destroyed – because people like ocb’s ancestors wanted the resources and land that didn’t belong to them, so they stole them – simple as that. It isn’t a question of who got there first – though I’m sure you’d be pretty mad if someone took all you owned away from you just because they were bigger and stronger and were armed with more weapons than you. Then rounded up your people and trekked them across miles to a small enclave, and killed any who disputed this treatment.

It’s to do with how people like ocb view their past (romanticised, idealised and completely devoid from reality), and how they justify crimes against humanity. Those who ignore the lessons of history are bound to repeat the errors.

He views apparently, the death and destruction of millions of people not only with equanimity, but pleasure that the remaining few were converted to civilised Christian behaviour, by extremely brutal means. He calls them a bunch of uncivilised Indians who fought each other for hundreds of years, overlooking many Indian nations who were peaceful and assisted the early American settlers to survive. The cowboys were not heroes (that’s a Hollywood myth), they were mostly illiterate, itinerant louts – who were more likely to shoot someone in the back than the one on one fastest draw so beloved of cinema.

He, like you, would defend his home, family and possessions with whatever means were at hand – but because others did this he considers them uncivilised. Strange don’t you think.

old_cross_bound
14th Jul 2001, 18:58
flyboy_33

Good post. That's why I start my own threads and put the religious titles on them. So everyone will know who started it and what to expect when they read it.

They don't have to click on the topic and read it if they don't want to. This point seems to fly right over the heads of the insulters and complainers who have to, for some weird reason, come into my thread and spew their vomit on my topic.

Case in point: the bark, yet unable to bite, General Aviation. When I picture this person in my mind it reminds me of the thugs in the old movie, "Clockwork Orange". He belongs in a rubber suit it appears.

You may be young but you are sharp, a good thinker and very observant when considering the future. I encourage you to think independantly as you are doing. You have caught the brunt force of this multiculturalism and the older people in your life may not have pointed this out to you, I don't know. Do continue to, think for yourself.
God Bless,

ocb

The Guvnor
14th Jul 2001, 19:41
If religion is all about sweetness and light, why is it that the religious fundamentalists (Christian, Jetwish, Muslim, Sikh etc) all feel that it's their God-given duty to wipe everyone that doesn't agree 100% with them off the face of the earth?

What happened to 'love thy neighbour as thyself'??

GeneralAviation
14th Jul 2001, 19:41
Awww ocb, you'd love me if you met me - really. Now that is hilarious - a rubber suit. :D :D :D :D

Strange that you find it so difficult to accept what you do all the time - post on other people's threads and proceed to insult all and sundry - have you finally realised that others treat you as you treat them. Is that an element of self-pity I detect underlying that whinge.

Think you ought to look again - this isn't your thread incidentally.

Be nice, and they will respond nicely - be nasty and it comes back in full measure, and you can never recoup what you lost or squandered.

[ 14 July 2001: Message edited by: GeneralAviation ]

old_cross_bound
14th Jul 2001, 19:52
GeneralAviation

It's raining again
Ocb - why are you not able to check your facts before you start criticising others.


***Where do you get your facts? The multi-culture library of rewritten history!

Simple check of any dictionary would save you making a fool of yourself yet again:

Aboriginal (adjective) = existing from the earliest known times

***LOL ! AB original = original, primitive. Since the planet is just 6 thousand years old (BTW, you can't prove this to be incorrect but you are welcome to try) and their are traces of a migration through North Korea to Russia and Alaska down through North and South America, none of the Indians should be considered Aboriginal at all. It's just a limited and narrowly bigoted point of view you have adopted for reasons unknown to those of us who cling to sanity.

Now unless you're claiming that the native peoples of the American continent weren't there centuries before the white man, I think once again you've opened mouth without engaging brain.

***No actually you have. It's that barking thing again, chap! We have very little knowledge on the adventures of the Vikings but that's irrelevant.
We can see that none of these people were here very long at all and they were all just squatters like you and me are today, acknowledged or not. No biggy.
It was the nonbelieving, geedy, secular, power hungry, European bigots who were calling all the shots on trade, the driving force behind the corruption which took place on the part of both peoples. The Christians then had to clean up the mess and now today have to listen to the garbage you've been taught.

The aboriginal indians of America were no more uncivilised than the white people who displaced them. Many of the tribes co-existed in harmony with their neighbours and the land. It was the white immigrants who brought the most death and destruction with their ever increasing numbers and the complete lack of concern for anyone but their own selfish need for more and more resources.

***Blanketed statement without merit whatsoever. Some were more civil than others but nice try. Many of the tribes were warriors who would torture and mutulate whites, indians, it didn't really matter to them. Don't try to tell me the American Indians were the apple of Gods eye. They were not any different than us.

It was the white buffalo hunters who decimated the millions of bison that roamed the plains. Approximately 60million existed at the beginning of the 19th Century, within 50 years they were virtually exterminated with only a few hundred left.

***They did this for your ancestors I might add. Kind of like the drug trade today, isn't it?

Entire tribes were uprooted from their homes, and forcibly re-settled. Many massacred if they resisted.

***Sounds Celtic, doesn't it.

Men, women and children indiscriminantly slaughtered because they didn’t want to leave the land where generations of them had lived, mostly peacefully. US Forces killed or harassed them during the 1840 – 1880 period so that more white settlers could travel west.

***All for a European buck too, can you believe it?

The Indians were crowded on the Great Plains by a policy of containment by the US Government and Army, many of them totally unused to this environment and suffering from white ailments to which they had no immunity. Many of the Treaties signed in good faith by the Indian Leaders were ignored and repeatedly broken by the Army, settlers and Government Officals (especially the Indian Bureaux representatives).

***Bigotted thinking does this doesn't it. Would you considered this to be evil in your eyes?

To the average white settler the only good Indian was a dead one, and few were aware of the disparate nature of the Indian Nations.

***Now you are starting to deal with people instead of Goverments, that's good. And all Indians just wanted to love all the white people, right?

They despised them as heathens and since they were considered sub-human they could treat them with a total disregard for anything approaching normal behaviour. Additionally, this land which had been promised as sanctuary was increasingly encroached upon by more white settlers.

***You thinking this up as you go? Who made what promise?

Yes ocb, I’m sure your recent ancestors were involved in this slaughter – nothing to be proud of though. Your relative peace and safety was bought at a cost of thousands of innocent lives, and destruction of the enviroment and extermination of many native flora and fauna. I say relative, because what peace and safety is there if you live in such fear that you need weapons to guard against intruders.

***Another wrong assumption GA, my ancestors didn't kill any indians at all but lived in peace with them. My great grandmother is an Indian on my mothers side, silly. She had first hand accounts of what happened and passed those accounts on. The enviroment was destoyed by Adam and Eve at the fall. Man is responsible for that curse not some other man but us and that includes you. Why did you allow this to happen G.A.? Lets talk senseably, want to.

Your diatribes here hurt someone I care about very much, at a time when she was already greatly burdened; doesn't matter whether you felt provoked or under threat. Much of what you said was untrue, unnecessary and unjust. Many people read these boards who were not registered and the consequences of our outpourings are not always obvious to us - but we are responsible for what we say and do and what happens as a result of that.

***I'm not buying the (sob) story at all G.A., sorry. Good and Evil is in the world. Thats a fact. You want to play the pagan "poor victim" game, go do it with someone unknowledgable of your silliness.

You may try to justify it now, but unfortunately it is too late to put right the harm you caused.

***OH, the hopeless situation :(

So next time you make personal attacks on posters, remember every word, every deed goes in the scales for judgement at the end of your life. Make sure the scales are not weighed too heavily on the negative side.

***You'll make a fine nonbible believing preacher some day G.A.. Go play your "guilt" game elsewhere. I'll tell the truth here. I'll do with love if possible but, I will tell the truth about our present spiritual condition. Keep reading! ;)

ocb

Capt PPRuNe
14th Jul 2001, 20:54
Long threads such as this one are causing too much overhead on the server so I am closing it. Feel free to start a MkII version but once that gets to around 150 replies it too will be closed.