Final Air Niugini F28 into Australia

[Taildragger]

The end of an era came to pass at CNS yesterday wiith the final F28 flight to Australia. Due to noise abatement procedures they
can no longer fly into OZ.

PX had contracted for an F100, BUT , typically, the shebang got stuffed up. NowPX has to wetlease for approx 3 months, some BAE146's (-100's at that!!) which they leased from National Jet while they wait for the F100. There is a rumour floating round that they had an offer of 2 x F100's ex USA - full package including training etc for US 7 million but Pixie didn't take the offer. Instead, they got an Ozzie deal for 1 x F100 for an undisclosed sum and they have to pay for training and everything else and the dea got stuffed up as the F100 providor can't let the aircraft go as they didn't (can't) get the additional 2 F100's they ordered as they nogat money (sound familiar!!???)
(The word is ....the OZ deal for 1 x F100 is around US 5 Million!!)

What an absolute farce!! But Typical PX/PNG. Could this all be thatsomeone has a vested interest and another agenda.??
What say you Oh Wise one.?? This Trutok or nogat.?

In any case, is this the Final Final Final Final Final F28 into Oz, or simply the Final Final one.?? Just asking.

[Sharpie]

AHHhhhhh Taildragger, it does sound so very familiar and so very very sad to see that the fruit-bat gets another bite at the PNG cherry at possibly great cost to the country. I wonder who really orchestrated all that. We will have to rely on the number crunching from the bean counters to extract a bit of save from that lot.

Some recall that the last pixie effort into a fruit-bat foray cost them a squillion dollars over 10 months, is the same person responsible for calling the shots this time? No wonder another air operator is quickly obtaining a gaggle or two of additional Dash 8's; No doubt to pick up the slack when the fruit bat falls over as often as it did last time in peengee.

If I recall correctly, the 146-100 can not make it above the dme departure steps en-route Lae/Nadzab or Girua tracks, circling like the F27 days of yore!

C180's the only way to go!

[4dogs]

sharpie,

and just how often did that fairly new RJ70 fall over?

stay alive

[Animalclub]

Bring back that B737 for the CNS route says I!!

[OzExpat]

Hey Animalclub, were you one of those who got offloaded in POM yesterday?

[Animalclub]

OzExpat
Not been off loaded out of POM since 1999... but I know the feeling (dread) of having to spend another night at the Airways with the PX crew!!!

[Sharpie]

Ozexpat, do not admit that you were a victim of trying to put 100 into 64! somehow that does not work and the angry remainder can give you heaps.

4 Dogs. Me get alive. a live what? a live fruit bat that whether a RJ70 or to a lessor extend, a homely 146-100, neither of which have or will be successful in PNG. Neither are renowned to leap high mountains, outspeed a slow bullet, or carry out 3 engine ferries from anywhere except Nadzab or POM. Maybe you wished me 'get a life'. Ta!

There is ample history to prove that the RJ70 was not a terribly reliable piece of machinery(in PNG) and though I admit, it may be a beautiful piece of machinery in the correct operating invironment, PNG is not that invironment. Can we review its performance after 3 months?

[Capn Bloggs]

Sharpie,
Please invite me to the 1 engine ferry from Nadzab by the big F#kker. I'll take some video and then send it to The Funniest Home Video Show.
I'd be happy to give you a drag to FL180 one engine out. Pick whatever you like: I'll take the fruitbat.:D

[RENURPP]

lets just say no, you don't recall correctly.

If I recall correctly, the 146-100 can not make it above the dme departure steps en-route Lae/Nadzab or Girua tracks, circling like the F27 days of yore!

[dwarfhunter]

Wilkes, Wilkes, Wilkes F$%&#@g won't give up.
His departing gesture!!

[OzExpat]

Likewise Animalclub... even the same year for me too, but I guess it'll happen again some time... :uhoh:

No, Sharpie, definitely not guilty. Just happened to hear a few grumbles emanating from the vicinity of the international terminal. :}

[Sharpie]

Max Conrad flew a Piper Apache( or Aztec) around the world on one with the prop removed from t'other. It can be done if you have enough runway(ask the BN2 pilot who tried a s/e take-off from Kiriwina. He'd know!) The four-enginned fruitbat with one out, is no better than a twin with such runway restrictions for a 3e ferry.

Anyway, as I said previously, the fruitbat is a fantastic aircraft but not in PNG and I wait for completion of the three months to see how much down-time ocurred. One good aspect is by being 5-7 minutes per sector slower than the F28, more overtime can be logged for the same distance.

As far as a 'burn' to FL180,a Beech1900 would give you a run for your money, but I'd bet a 4000 against the fruitbat to FL290 in PNG skies.if both had 64 pax or similar weight.

[Capn Bloggs]

Sharpie,
Drags to the moon with all engines going are not the issue. It is well known that twins will outclimb a 4 holer...provided all it's two motors are turning and burning! Fail one, and now the ball is completely in the other's court. All that counts is the engine-out performance, for CAO20.7.1b is what it is all about.

Max aside, I don't think anybody this side of Mozambique would seriously consider doing a 1 engine ferry in a two engined aircraft. Not if they wanted to keep their AOC. The fact is that the 146 CAN do a three engine ferry, something that will NEVER be done in the pocket rocket.

[RENURPP]

One good aspect is by being 5-7 minutes per sector slower than the F28, more overtime can be logged for the same distance.

POM - CNS the F28 would have to TAS 480kts to save 7 mins

POM - NZ the F28 would have to TAS 460kts to save 5 mins.

Is that about F28 speed???

[tinpis]

What has happened to the Cairns crew? Im prolly way outa date.

[Sharpie]

A Fruitbat in PNG with one out is no more flexible than a twin with one out. (Apart from NZB & POM) it will have to sit on the ground until someone gets the replacement power plant to it. So really, having four engines does not help too much.

As far as sector speed goes, look at the published schedules and why is it the Fruitbat takes 1h 35m CNS-POM against the F28 1h 25m? Other sectors are similarly slow. Some time ago we found that for 8 fruitbats to replace 8 F28's on the then schedule, the Fruitbats would have to fly an additional 1580 hours per year just to cover th same sector miles. Great for more aircrew but an additional cost of some Kina millions just to carry the same number of revenue pax. Put the fares up to cover the cost. I do not think so.

Cairns based F28 crew, mi no save, but if F28's no longer service that port, how can you justify the cost of keeping them there as well as soaking-up valuable revenue seats on a 64 seat Fruitbat when they dead-head each way? I think that they should be based back in POM.
Happy Easter and may the furry bunny bring you a choccy egg.

[Capt Claret]

Sharpie

I've lost something in the translation. Why couldn't the FruitBat fly to where the spare engine is? :ok:

[69s]

Hey Sharpie
Tell all the guys the dangers of landing a pixie under an active TS in heavy metal and the ultimate support...14R:ouch:

[Sharpie]

El Wino.

From pastuse of the aircraft, we were informed that to carry out three engine take-offs, at least 1800 metres were required. Only Nadzab and POM have 1800 +. Also as the aircraft operatedwith lower tyre pressures, it may require whell changes afterwards.

Let's review the situation after the three months operation.

[Taildragger]

Ahhhhhhhhh Oh Wisepela All I said was that the last F28 ex CNS had departed. This game of verbal tennis is very entertaining and illuminating. I assume that all this is being transmitted from the China Coast in Subic.?? (Or similar)
:D

[Sharpie]

Taildragger, that is nearly correct. I am currently sitting in the SBYC Water Sport Office following the progress of the China Sea Race Fleet with one retiree already. The President's Cup Regatta starts Wednesday through to Saturday,so I will not have too much time on the keyboard until next week.

Happy and safe flying as wellas sailing!

[Capt Claret]

Sharpie,

Like any takoff the TODR will be affected by all up weight and environmental conditions.

As for needing new whells, well I must be the ace of the base :p , as neither of the two three engined ferrys I've done, one from just across the border, have resulted in wheel changes.

[Sharpie]

No worries Capt. Claret all fully understood. My comments based on when a RJ70 operated in PNG and from the info provided to ops personnel, 1850+ was the minimum reqd for a 3 engine ferry. Also as the aircraft was operated in PNG with lower than normal tyre pressures, it was also stated that tyres had to be inspected after a 3 engine ferry and all main wheels may have to be changed. Whether that info still exists on file these days, I do not know.

But I stick with my original comment that IMHO, the fruit bat is not really suitable for PNG ops. Think of 8-9 sectors and no APU. What will that do to the 25 minute turn arounds.

Happy easter.

[RENURPP]

The first month is just about over, how are things going so far?