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squire
30th Mar 2004, 01:47
I was watching a BBC programme on the Japanese Unit 731 activities last nite. And I just can't fathom why they cannot even now bring themselves to apologise?
http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/germwar/germwar.htm

Anthony Carn
30th Mar 2004, 06:12
Difficult to give an honest personal opinion without my post being deleted.

You've only got to watch the antics in their present-day "game shows" to wonder at the mindset.

:(

Animalclub
30th Mar 2004, 06:35
Wouldn't the Japanese commit Hari Kari rather that say sorry? It just isn't in their nature... mind you when they visit (without arms - I mean guns) they bring great gifts!

Evening Star
30th Mar 2004, 13:35
Wouldn't the Japanese commit Hari Kari rather that say sorry?

If judged by an inability to say sorry or admit making a mistake, I therefore take it that all our politicians, of whichever hue, are Japanese :confused: ?!

Biggles Flies Undone
30th Mar 2004, 13:40
I've never heard a Jap say sorry.

I've heard a few say 'solly' though.

419
30th Mar 2004, 13:47
If the japanese say sorry, they would be admitting that what they did was wrong. That would leave them open to multiple lawsuits for damages from the relatives of the allied soldiers that died at their hands.

You've only got to look at the latest U.S. law suit to see what would happen.
Descendants of slaves who were shipped to the U.S. are suing Lloyds of London. Their argument is that if Lloyds hadn't provided insurance to the ship ownerw, the boats wouldn't have been able to sail to Africa to pick up slaves.

Using this logic, if I missed my flight on an aircraft, would I be able to sue the inflight catering company, on the basis that if they didn't have the meals ready, the flight would have been delayed, and I wouldn't have missed it!

419

angels
30th Mar 2004, 13:51
One of the dealers here is a charming young girl from Tokyo.

She's sorry.

Please don't besmirch an entire nation for the actions of their ancestors and present-day politicians.

Bre901
30th Mar 2004, 15:18
Discussed with some Japanese colleagues in Japan some time ago, and asked "naively" if they had a clue why relationships with Korea and China were a bit tense. The answer was straightforward : because of the very bad Japanese behaviour during WW2.
I have to say they are not exactly mainstream Japanese, as they are working in the Japanese subsidiary of a western company.

Animalclub
30th Mar 2004, 15:24
Evening Star

How do you draw a conclusion from a question? Who is making a judgement?

Evening Star
30th Mar 2004, 16:11
Animalclub

Have you ever heard a politician say they are sorry? Very rare a least. If we also accept the premise that the Japanese do not say sorry, then politicians and Japanese must the same.

Well, it was a tongue in cheek look at the world.:\

Grandpa
30th Mar 2004, 17:27
While Germany went through "denazification", a process that lasted years and resulted in every young German being taught about Nazi crimes and german responsability.................

.............This procedure was never initiated in Japan, because Gl. Mac Arthur and US authorities were afraid of the seizure of the Japanes Communist Party over that nation if they destroyed the Emperor authority.

If they had made investigations about Japanese war crimes, they should have turned against the Emperor , because he was well aware of what was done by his troops in China and the Far East.

So, instead of trying to reeducate the Japanese people to make sure these crimes should not be repeated, they left the Emperor in his quiet Palace.

Mac Arthur had a dozzen of "Japanese war criminals" executed (among them a general who was in fact only responsible for having ordered to stop massacre in Nankin, while the officers guilty of that crime were left aside). That was all for Japanese "denazification".

So it should not be a surprise to find that Nationalists in Japan are denying their crimes, and are doing anything they can to prevent new generations to learn about it (even forbiding history books which tell the truth about it!).

Interesting story also of this Japanese consul in Baltic States in 1940/41 who managed to help thousands of Jews to escape to Japan through Russia, giving them transit visa................ and was sacked from Ministry of Foreign Affairs after the war, because doing so he had disobeyed orders.

DC Meatloaf
30th Mar 2004, 18:16
Why am I not shocked that Grandpa managed to turn this into yet another anti-American diatribe?

Bre901
30th Mar 2004, 18:36
DC Meatloaf

I don't think anyone sensible could call Grandpa's post "yet another anti-American diatribe". His wording was quite neutral and I doubt anyone would contest the facts he presented (except maybe some Japanese nationalists but I doubt they read Pprune)

And yes, I'm aware you were somehow tongue-in-cheek :p

BlueDiamond
31st Mar 2004, 01:17
The difficulty may simply be time. I don't believe it is relevant for a present day Japanese authority to apologise for something that happened sixty years ago. Where would it end if we took such a stance to its logical conclusion? Would we go back to wars of a thousand years ago and apologise for any atrocities then committed? I believe any attempt at an apology from any present day authority over something that happened so long ago would be hollow and inappropriate.

And yes, DCM, I do tend to agree with you. In spite of the careful wording (as noted by Bre901), which is not, of itself a "diatribe," it is difficult to find a post from Grandpa that does not contain some reference to America and/or its people.

Chaffers
31st Mar 2004, 01:31
it is difficult to find a post from Grandpa that does not contain some reference to America and/or its people.

You could replace Grandpa with various other posters too.... :rolleyes:

pigboat
31st Mar 2004, 01:34
Even the Lipizzaner ponies know more than one trick....;)

squire
31st Mar 2004, 02:14
Blue Diamond are you aware that currently there is a disease that still afflicts people in North China called rotten leg disease. Huge ulcerated patches on their limbs today not 60 years ago matey. When they pulled out of China Unit 731 released disease infected rats into the local community (the insuing plagues killing thousands) before destroying the buildings (along with the 400 souls inside). They then bargained for their release with the US with some of the remaining records. Many of these "elite" scientists have gone on to hold prestigious positions in Japan.
Lets not even get started on Nanjing............but how would you feel about German school textbooks denying the holocaust? That is what the Chinese are upset about!:mad:

Animalclub
31st Mar 2004, 02:55
Evening Star

AAAAHHHH SOOOO. Now I see.

Cheers

Bre901
31st Mar 2004, 09:34
BlueDiamond
I don't believe it is relevant for a present day Japanese authority to apologise for something that happened sixty years ago
Why not ?
Mr Chirac did so in 1995, recognizing the responsibility of the French administration in the deportation of Jews during WWII (here (http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/21123/edition_id/23/format/html/displaystory.html))

BlueDiamond
31st Mar 2004, 13:23
Why not ?

Because I feel that in order to be a true apology, it would have had to come from those who committed the atrocities. Since it is apparent that these people were anything but sorry about what they did, for someone else to apologise on their behalf seems false.

Blue Diamond are you aware that currently there is a disease that still afflicts people in North China called rotten leg disease. Huge ulcerated patches
What does my awareness of this have to do with my personal belief about what constitutes a sincere and true apology?

but how would you feel about German school textbooks denying the holocaust?

I would feel puzzled as to how they arrived at their conclusions.

fishtits
31st Mar 2004, 18:56
I've heard a few say 'solly' though.

:E :ouch: :E

If sorry is the hardest word - antidisestablishmentarianism must come a bloody close second....

:E

ratsarrse
31st Mar 2004, 19:51
I work with a number of Japanese people and believe me, they know how to apologise! I have felt embarrassed on a few occasions when someone has apologised profusely to me, accompanied with much bowing, because they have made a mistake that has caused me some extra grief. My replies to the effect of 'don't worry, shit happens' appears to be almost beyond comprehension to some of my Japanese colleagues. So, please don't make generalisations about people based on the position adopted by their politicians.

Gratuitous point only tenuously linked to the topic (well, it is Jetblast):

It appears that there are no swear words in Japanese. WTF?

squire
1st Apr 2004, 01:14
Blue diamond

"What does my awareness of this have to do with my personal belief about what constitutes a sincere and true apology??"

Because the initial statement below makes it sound as though this is not an ongoing "living issue".

"Would we go back to wars of a thousand years ago and apologise for any atrocities then committed? I believe any attempt at an apology from any present day authority over something that happened so long ago would be hollow and inappropriate."

Secondly your initial post never said a word about where you deemed an apology should come from (actually I know of one who has made a personal apology). A personal apology however is entirely different from an official apology and I guess you will have to remain "puzzled" as to the textbook issue as well.

Ratsarse

"So, please don't make generalisations about people based on the position adopted by their politicians."

Sorry (see that didn't hurt at all) I don't remember making any generalisation but last time I looked elected governments are the international representatives of the citizens of the nation. Therefore if they want to educate their children with lies and not attempt to even admit to their actions, I think the international community should react. Nothing personal in that at all. If Germany denied the holocaust and lied to their schools would that tarnish your view of them?