Censorship, Part deux

[blueloo]

Given the recent discussion on censorship here, I was just wondering on what are suitable definitions for what is considered boring, and devoid of thought or understanding in light of



PPRUNE TOWERS comments
From the UK it's a useful time to point out that we've opened up the Woomeroid job description to allow them to bin the works of the one subject wonders.

Totally kosher if they bin your words of wisdom on the grounds of being boring, repetitive, devoid of thought or understanding. If your views are incapable of accepting someone else feels or experienced something differently to you the Woomeras can use the editorial powers we are passing around the site to get rid.

The mods here are under no compunction from us to explain deletions publicly or privately. There is an element of training going on at the moment - the usual suspects will get the message eventually.

Giving you a voice is pointless if you're consistently spouting one sided bollocks.

Regards
Rob



It seems that these definitions are rather liberally applied here, which as we know is the moderators right - however we are continually reminded that the forums are set up for "the people" to discuss all things aviation. Whilst there is clearly a place for moderation by moderators, where has this all mighty right of random censorship stemed from because the moderator deems an item boring or otherwise?

If as Pprune Towers and others have mentioned it is acceptable and it is the done thingto remove posts, then why do half of the topics in most forums even exist? Especially "Rumours and News" - over the past few months has been one of the most boring forums around - nothing new or exciting has even remotely happened there - its just people discussing issues. A vast proportion of these topics are boring, repetitive and the like - but wait - thats only MY opinion - therein lies the problem - these views be it of moderators or otherwise are merely peoples opinions.

If topics continually appear or degenerate to a particular topic, there must be a reason - namely people still feel as though they have something to say. If it is such a boring etc topic it will die its own natural death - like most posts eventually do. All moderators do is bring a post to its death sooner, and then another springs up, more censorship occurs and then another post etc.

Whats the solution? Who knows - clearly some moderators (and not all i might add) feel as though they want to shape a discussion and censor it - which isnt terribly democratic. If moderators wish to do this - why not go one step further - and just make up the topics people can and cant discuss from
scratch.....


Here is another comment from a mod -


PPRUNE TOWERS other comments

Signal to noise ratio here is ****e - we're changing it.


(My thoughts on that comment are - why not just write what you want to hear and close the forum to all users postings)

I personally think people should be given the right to read what they want and let them do their own censorship - if they dont like the topic, dont read it. If it bores you, dont read it. Let moderators moderate and let readers do their own censorship.

Anyway enough rambling

:} :}
Flush Flush

[Chronic Snoozer]

I think the Towers are trying to apply CDF aka 'common dog' or common sense wrt posts that are in the liberal categories you've listed. I think the vast majority of posters and lurkin PPruNer's do a collective roll of the eyes whenever threads degenerate and the mud slinging starts. To some of us its 'common sense' that you wouldn't write some of the vitriol/insults/defamatory/inflaming posts that appear on D&G. (and I must add snide, cynical comments that do nothing to contribute to the thread other than give a self-adulating sense of gratification to the poster)

Unfortunately it is difficult to define 'common sense'. What makes eyes rollover even more, IMO, is the inevitable claim of unjust censorship. Those crying 'censorship! ' are often the very culprits that require it most. I don't give a fig if the threads are censored because it saves the majority of us from having to trawl through it to find the good bits. And there a great many interesting things posted here, so I agree with the signal to noise ratio quip from the Headshed too.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Chronic Snoozer has got it in one - if you skimmed the post above I really do recommend you re-read it.

blueloo - you also hit the key point:

however we are continually reminded that the forums are set up for "the people" to discuss all things aviation

Some PPRuNers in general and Ozmates in particular traditionally struggle with mastering that concept. Our mods are here to help keep them banging the rocks together and onwards to understanding.

I've given the guidance to the Woomeras with 8 years of running this place under my belt. Average of 5 hours per day over a full 365 days per year. The system logs my time on line and exactly what I do, where I did it and where in the world I did it from.

We understand the roll eyes reaction.

We want to refocus the site for aviation pros

We're halving the number of forums and we're doing some house training in preparation for that. As well as the points made earlier I'm also instructing the mods here to delete brain dead thoughts and opinions from outsiders when they deflect a thread important to professionals.

This isn't a democracy and never has been. It may stick in your throat to have some lousy poms tell you they know best but Danny and I somehow have got the aviation world talking to each other. Nobody has done that before or since - don't care whether you're looking at a worldwide basis or just the Oz and New Zealand scene.

Is that clear enough for you?? We did it , no one else. Our efforts - our style and also the hard won knowledge that you lot hate admitting. Most of you prefer a moderated site otherwise you'd be elsewhere. I've written to the mods today giving them step by step instructions on how to use the editorial and qualitative parts of the software.

Rebutal invited of course:E :E

Regards from the Towers
Rob Lloyd

PS It was the NAS threads and the level of debate some were able to achieve that made this inevitable.

[tobzalp]

I have first hand seen this pprune towers reasons for deleting threads. It was not sent to me so I shall not expand. It does not surprise me however coming from a pom.

I don't know where you come off with your self absorbed BS. Give me the 'OMG THIS IS OUR FR0UM!!!!!' crap all you want but without the one thread wonders this joint would dry up pretty quick. It is the community that makes a web site not the other way around.

You reckon that we want a heavily moderated site? Look at the massive decrease in post since it began. Once more I point you to the ghost town theory.


stfu

[Kaptin M]

..but then - in general - Aussies like to defy authority, and to test the limits!

"One thread wonders" - some of you just don't have that staying power, if that's the case....hit and runs.
I'm in this for the long haul.........in spite of having been censured, binned, exterminated and re-incarnated several times.

Don't let the b@st@rds get ya down!
Oz - and PROUD of it.

[PPRuNe Towers]

You're absolutely right tobzalp,

671 people are on the site at the moment and the tumbleweed is blowing.

There is a problem - what I've written seems extremely arrogant but you have to counter me with a some facts though. The site grows and grows as do the numbers of posts, registered members, bandwidth used and so on. Feel free to slag me off - it goes with the territory but the truth is that if somewhere does it better you'd all be there.

It's simple. It's logical. It's the truth. Folks like a moderated site.

Rob

Kap, if you're living on the edge you're taking up too much space.........

[blueloo]

..theres no need to reply, it would probably be censored !!!

:} :} :}

[Kaptin M]

Kap, if you're living on the edge you're taking up too much space.........Absolutley!!
I enjoy being right in the middle - the thick of it. :cool:
..as, I've noticed, so do YOU, PPT :D

[PPRuNe Towers]

Curses mon brave - don't let all the secrets out.

Remember the old days when Danny just shut down the Oz forums till folks got the message??? Not once but 3 times that I remember. End of civilization and freedom then as I recall. Fahrenheir 451 or whatever temperature monitors melt at was the cry.

Regards
Rob

[separator]

Rob,

I feel that the Poms have shoulder some of the blame, after all it was upstanding British judges who handpicked our ancestors ( well mine, at least) to populate the new land.

To quote Robert Hughes, author of "The Fatal Shores":

'In their most sanguine moments, the authorities hoped that it would eventually swallow a whole class - "the criminal class," whose existence was one of the prime sociological beliefs of late Georgian and early Victorian England. Australia was settled to defend English property not from the frog-eating invader from across the Channel but from the marauder within. English lawmakers wished not only to get rid of the "criminal class" but if possible to forget about it. Australia was a cloaca, invisible, its contents filthy and unnameable.'

With this in mind it is not surprising that some of the D & G contributors still hear the clank of the shackle and feel the kiss of the lash. It is in our nature. It may have been better in the long run if our ancestors were sent business class, with a pocketful of spending money.

However, be grateful that we are mostly here and not there in that green and pleasant land. Just imagine what would have happened to the property values. On the other hand, you would have gained a cricket team.

Let there be a little more light and not as much heat.

Cheers

sep

[PPRuNe Towers]

Good quote and an excellent final thought Sep.

Danny and I push the pom line so that the troops here have a nice easy target - I'm actually Canadian and Danny is Israeli hoping to become Canadian.

That would ruin the fun however so we put on wigs, redcoats and posh accents to give the Ozmates a nice stereotype to rail against.

'Hegemonic Imperialist Canadian spawn of the Devil,' never really has rung true as an insult has it?? Ontarian Bastard, umm nope. Quebecois scumbag - hmmmm, needs a bit more work I think. Much more satisfying to take a poke at a Pom.

Regards
rob

[tobzalp]

I am talking about the decreasing participation on D and G. That is what this is all about. There is much less posting going on of late.

[Sperm Bank]

Tobzalp perhaps it has something to do with all the mind numbing ,vacuous, and pathetically childish diatribe plastered across the forum. If you think people actually enjoy reading that garbage I think you are sadly mistaken. Nothing wrong with having the courage of your convictions and being passionate about a subject. Being able to articulate a point without reverting to all the neanderthal mud slinging would be a pleasant change dont you think? Welcome to the 21st century plebarians!

[blueloo]

Sperm Bank, that is what nearly 99% of all posts are about here - its the same whinging, boring, repitive, slandering, mind numbing rubbish from the same people. Thats why we all read it!

All I can say is


JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!


:} :}

[Buster Hyman]

I don't think that posts degenerating is unique to D&G, just look at the NZ thread on JB!:rolleyes:

I joined this site through word of mouth, not because of it's point of origin. Where else can a humble load controller/ops officer carry out general conversations & observations with aircrew, cabin crew, ATC staff, military crew, Dick Smith and even members of the press? Perhaps the diversity is the reason for so much angst. For example (again) I've had some nice & heated posts with the Kaptin. After a few PM's, I think we've reasonably conveyed each others thoughts & positions to the point that we've been able to move on.

I just don't understand why it's so hard for some others. :confused:

PS. Rob. Out of curiosity, are the Woomeras all from this neck of the woods?


Buster. If you are specifically asking about Canberra, the answer is no - far too risky haveing a Woomeri there! :} However, I can confirm that most states are represented amongst the Woomeri ranks and most aspects of, or professions within the aviation industry are also represented within our collective wisdom. It would be very unusual (but not improbably) for an overseas Moderator to don the Woomera cloak.

Woomera

[amos2]

I reckon it's time Woomera stepped in here, binned Towers and pulled this thread!! :\


Nice thought :E ..... problem is Towers is the boss!

Woomera

[Woomera]

Tobzalp perhaps it has something to do with all the mind numbing ,vacuous, and pathetically childish diatribe plastered across the forum. If you think people actually enjoy reading that garbage I think you are sadly mistaken. Nothing wrong with having the courage of your convictions and being passionate about a subject. Being able to articulate a point without reverting to all the neanderthal mud slinging would be a pleasant change don’t you think? Welcome to the 21st century plebarians!


There’s words of fact and wisdom in that post!

Tobzalp, I’m not sure where you get your statistics from, but consider the facts, freely available to all on this site.

Yesterday, PPRuNe received 998,785 visits, 152,534 from Australia and the Pacific.

The six NAS threads initiated by Voices of Reason resulted in 215 replies and 27,091 visits. The largest VoR thread alone attracted 16,338 visits. Tobzalp, you contributed a number of excellent, professional posts.

Readership of PPRuNe Dunnunda forums exceeds the total readership of all other aviation media in Australia. And the topics are written and developed by YOU - fellow aviation industry professionals, not journalists and spin doctors. Your chance to have your say, on aviation matters of interest, in a rational and sane manner.

Consider Woomeri’s position. Most of us have been PPRuNe users since 1998 or 1999 and, under our various usernames, have been involved in this forum’s development. Every one of the posts in Dunnunda must be read, occasionally edited or removed. Very occasionally a user needs to be either removed or posting rights restricted – a decision not taken lightly by any Woomeri. Additionally, we read and respond to PM’s, Woomera emails etc.

I, like all Woomeri, have a full time job that consumes around 50 to 60 hours per week. Like all Woomeri, I contribute a further ten to twelve hours every week, reading PPRuNe posts - whether I’m personally interested or not……...

Where posts contain repetitious “mind numbing ,vacuous, and pathetically childish diatribe” or do not add constructively to the thread topic or debate they are edited or removed.

And as Rob mentioned, the vast majority of PPRuNe readers want it that way – they too have no interest in wading through lashings of what amounts to nothing more than a high signal to noise ratio!

A Woomera

[Buster Hyman]

Could you imagine if Dunnunda was moderated from CBR!:eek: I meant the region, 'tis all, and you have answered so.

PS. Between you & me...is Winstun a Woomeri?;)


I'm sworn to secrecy!

Hey, you like our new title "Super Moderator"? Now comes the pay renegotiation under the PPRuNe EBA............ :\

Woomera

[Whiskery]

Are you putting your hand up for a Moderator's position Buster ? I'll vote for you! :ok:

PS I don't think Winnie is a Woomeri.

GO PIES !!!!

This one? http://collingwoodfc.com.au/cp2/c2/webi/graphic/357078ao.gif

W

[Animalclub]

Methinks Winstun only comes out to play when Taildragger, or some other ex PNG bod posts!

[Buster Hyman]

Whiskery...you been hitting your namesake too hard ol' son!!!

I'm ineligible due to my current location!:bored:

PS. Good win for the Pies on the weekend...Not!:p :}


:} (Collingwood supporter)

[blueloo]

From Woomeras post......


Readership of PPRuNe Dunnunda forums exceeds the total readership of all other aviation media in Australia. And the topics are written and developed by YOU - fellow aviation industry professionals, not journalists and spin doctors. Your chance to have your say, on aviation matters of interest, in a rational and sane manner


Re-green bit - but we have been told by Pprune Towers that he wishes to "shape" our discussions....so not entirely by "us"



:} :}

Anyway back to my chanting:

JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY!!!!!!!


Then you won't mind me changing your post to highlight in red an important fact you may have overlooked?

Woomera

[Whiskery]

Nice one W !

Buster, the Pies will bounce back against the Doggies this weekend - you'll see :(

[amos2]

Yeh, Yeh, Yeh...in your ear mate!!!!!!!!!! :ok:

LOSER!!!!!

[Buster Hyman]

In your honour, Whiskery, I just threw a pie at my dog. Not only did it not bounce, but it broke up on impact. Luckily for me, the dog just licked it all up....says it all really.


;)


GO.... my team. :O :ugh: :{

[blueloo]

Not at all feel free to edit my posts.....anytime :} :} :} :} :}

[DirtyPierre]

What is it with this "pies" and "doggies" rubbish.

Give it a rest and get back to bagging;

- Dick Smith
- Proplever
- NAS
- Boyd Munroe
- QF senior management
- Impulse Pilots
- and Woomera's cenorship (which I haven't had a problem with, but then Tobzalp me ol' china, I don't get angry like you do!)

[Buster Hyman]

What is it with this "pies" and "doggies" rubbish.

Here, here! They are rubbish!

(Bluddy Queenslanders!) ;)

[Chaffers]

Good grief, do the pods ever stop whingeing?

We have a saying up here, "Nothing whinges like a pod.".

[Buster Hyman]

You spelt pom incorrectly Chaffers!;) :p

[Chaffers]

Nah, pod stands for antipodean.

I believe our illiterate colonial types often mistake the two. :p

Then again I do belive that you were just whingeing about my spelling. :=

[Buster Hyman]

Nah, just a point of order Guv'nor...here...want some hot bread? Just knicked it this mornin'!

:}

[RamAirTurbine]

Well as punishement for stealing the hot bread, we shall send you to a heavenly island continent - where you can live your life on sun drenched beaches with fabulous weather - whilst we important people stay here in the mother country living on a tiny overpopulated island with miserable weather and black pebble beaches.


Furthermore, we shall be happy to come out to your country for a holiday in the sun and then we would be glad to pay you and your fellow convicts err countrymen for this delight.





:} :} :}

[Buster Hyman]

Oh, alright then.:ok:

[Chaffers]

And as punishment for sending such people to supposed paradise we have to put up with half the population of the Southeast being made up of poddy barmen and call girls.

Evidently paradise is worse than a £4/hour job behind London bars, which prolly feels natural. :rolleyes:

Returning to the scene of the crime maybe?