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Iceolareanic
23rd Jun 2001, 04:42
Do you think you are a decent person, realise you aren't, or just don't care?

I have seen some statements here which are truly shocking, and I wonder about the people who wrote them. Do you think you are decent. I don't want to ask if you are or not, because as they say 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. Who judges decency? We have a legal and justice system which attemts to join reason with decency, the church teaches a well founded idea of decency.

But what about you, JUDGE YOURSELF? Do you think you are decent, just don't care or just havn't thought about it. Well, it's a good time to think about it. Look at your life and think about what sort of person you are. Maybe you'll realise who and what you are, and may decide that you want to change yourself.

Rollingthunder
23rd Jun 2001, 04:52
Why does this stuff sound familiar? Too familiar?

Anyone remember the Icelandic in-flight meal in the sixties? Just waiting on flood control.

The Fokker's chocka ocker
23rd Jun 2001, 06:29
I asked some questions of you in another thread, ice-boy.

Why don't you be decent and answer those before posting more diatribe.

BlueDiamond
23rd Jun 2001, 07:10
I've seen a few quite shocking statements here myself including one theory that those who attend church are decent people and that religion - in spite of its truly abysmal track record in the area of humanitarian attitude - is somehow a good thing.

Bio Warrior
23rd Jun 2001, 08:18
Iceo hon' there is no such thing as a decent person ... you attend church the verse "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" mean anything to you. Everyone has days when they look in the mirror and see that they aren't decent .... thats how we know we are trying to be decent people... only psycopaths are ever truely happy with their decency levels... it's like the saying if you think your mad youre probably still sane.... To answer your question Iceo .... I try to be a decent person, I'll leave the judging of how I do up to my God and my fellow human beings.

-Bio

rainbow
23rd Jun 2001, 08:28
Hi Iceolareanic,

Are you 11 years old?
With respect, as any laywer will advise,
your legal and justice system has nothing to
do with reason and decency.

They are mutually exclusive concepts.

Does your church teach decency? Or does it
dictate an orthodoxy?

Perhaps rather than inviting others to change themselves you may be better advised
to start thinking for yourself.

Best wishes, from one of many decent folk here,

rainbow.

Radar Departure2
23rd Jun 2001, 09:14
Now listen here, Icehole! Just because on another thread I stood up for your right to hold uneducated and fundamentalist views doesn't mean we all want to be bashed over the head with them. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

For what it's worth, I still don't believe you are guilty of a wind up, but as of now you have gone into the OCB basket: to be ignored at all costs.

Sheesh!

RD

the_anti_christ
23rd Jun 2001, 10:19
I regret that you limited replies to human beings. I personnally think thats rather biased, but what do you think Iceol?

Anyway, lend me your soul and I'll be happy to show you just how decent I think I am. I promise to give it back. :)

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[This message has been edited by the_anti_christ (edited 24 June 2001).]

Islander Jock
23rd Jun 2001, 11:13
Iceomaniac,

I believe I am truly a decent, caring and sharing person. In fact, let me share some fun with a new game which was just given to me.
www.ownz.dk/kiwi/misc/tele.swf (http://www.ownz.dk/kiwi/misc/tele.swf)

Enjoy :)

Mac the Knife
23rd Jun 2001, 12:08
Thanks for the URL Jock. My kid and I just spent a delirious 20 minutes splatting Teletubbies. Mum is out so she'll never know.

Mac the Indecent

DX Wombat
23rd Jun 2001, 12:41
At last! A use for those moronic Teletubbies! Great! Trust the Aussies to come up with a sensible use for them. Thanks Jock. :) :) :) :) :) :)

Mergatroid Alowishus
24th Jun 2001, 05:17
I don't think you can define the word decency among so many cultures and religions.What would you say the bottom line is on decency? Not intentionally hurting another human being? Doing what you can to help a suffering human being? I would have liked you to be more specific on your questioning. Some people at this sight think throwing an animal from a car into traffic is funny.I wonder if they also enjoyed the suffering the woman felt. Others,think it is okay to cheat on your spouse. Others believe in abortion. These same people probably consider themselves as decent human beings.

Winston Smith
24th Jun 2001, 05:35
Mergatroid Alowishus,

may I venture to presume that you are identical with Iceolareanic? The probability of there actually being two people with your remarkable creativity in inventing names is rather low...

Celtic Emerald
24th Jun 2001, 23:21
I'm the nicest person I know ;)

Emerald http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

Roofus
25th Jun 2001, 00:06
zzz zzz zzz zzz zzz

Juliet November
25th Jun 2001, 01:36
Megaflop,

Abortion is not a believe system, it's about a womans right to decide over her own body. Freedom of choice old chap, not something religious fundamentalist enjoy very much I suppose.

Send Clowns
25th Jun 2001, 02:32
I am decent. I even have trousers on as well as undies, and that is in my own room. Later, talking to my girlfriend I may be indecent, but that is a personal, private phone call.

Anyone say that I am not decent I would remind that I was never caught, much less convicted, for the "skinny dipping in Helston boating lake" incident, so they're looking at libel court.

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'Me here at last on the ground, you in mid air'

BlueDiamond
25th Jun 2001, 07:19
Clowns you promised me you would never mention that incident.

Mergatroid Alowishus
25th Jun 2001, 08:30
Juliet November, Why did you presume I was an old chap, and a religious fundamentalist? Megaflop

HugMonster
25th Jun 2001, 23:57
OK, why have you misspelled "Murgatroyd Aloysius"? :)

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Breeding Per Dementia Unto Something Jolly Big, Toodle-pip

RW-1
26th Jun 2001, 00:40
I am SO tired of these types of posts ...

By whose definition shall we go by? Hmmm ?

When all is said and done, if you believe in a higher power and all that goes with it, when you die and stand in front of that entity, it will be their definition.

You know what? no matter what you think of my posts, conversations, cravings, fetishes, desires, ramblings, what not. I guarentee I could stand there now and be just fine. I don't have to think about it. I KNOW I am. But to better the point, how one views him/her self isn't it, my friends and perhaps some of my enemies will say the same.

Get off thine soapbox, as we illustrated the church is not the savior of all that is wrong in the world, and it has a long history of corruption, etc. That it needs to atone for as well.

The girlfriend asked this of me last night, then was shocked to see my nude form when entering the bathroom ... "Well my dear, I AM decent, I just also happen to be naked ..." :)

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Marc


[This message has been edited by RW-1 (edited 25 June 2001).]

Velvet
26th Jun 2001, 01:15
Iceolareanic <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">But what about you, JUDGE YOURSELF? Do you think you are decent, just don't care or just havn't thought about it. Well, it's a good time to think about it. Look at your life and think about what sort of person you are. Maybe you'll realise who and what you are, and may decide that you want to change yourself. </font>

Let's hear what you think about yourself - you spend entirely too much time preaching at others, but not one mention of how you see yourself.

Most of us in here tend towards tolerance, acceptance of others, no matter what or who they happen to be, and that includes people like you who are intolerant of others, just because they do not fit your narrow parameters of religious observance.

You claim to be shocked by what is discussed in here, as if you are some maiden aunt at a vicar's tea party, suddenly overhearing some tidbit of gossip. You came here voluntarily, you stay like the rest of us, because it is one of the most interesting and informative, lively and entertaining sites on the web.

There are many on here with whom I do not agree - but on the whole I've found them decent, caring and mostly ready to debate just about any subject (within reason) often with humour and wit.

Emerald, good on on you - I've not had the opportunity elsewhere to say anything, but thank you for your sympathy - and I've been enjoying everything you've written. I've found myself agreeing with just about everything you've written lately - amazing I know. :)

We may never become friends, but I think we are on the same side you and I. And yes, I do think you are a decent person, far more so than Iceo what's 'is face. :)

Iceolareanic
26th Jun 2001, 03:45
Velvet and others who've kindly replied to me here;

I started the topic asking how you judge yourself. This wasn't a question about how you see others, or how you think others see you, but how you see yourself. Stop, stand back and take a look in the mirror. Where does your understanding of morals come from. Do they come from you and the people around you? Do you think you are a decent person because you fit in with them?

Or, do your actual morals and standards come from your parents, with a higher standard than is seen today? Do you realise that you infact break and ignore these morals to fit in with modern society, and actually feel frustration about doing this. People will do things that they wouldn't usually do, as a result of peer pressure from people around them.

What do you think about you? If you've had several sexual partners, do you think this is entirly normal an moral, and there's nothing wrong with it? Or on the other hand, do you realise and appreciate that it's wrong, but ignore it because everyone else does.

A thief wouldn't tell an honest person about his exploits. However among other thieves, he would brag about his latest takings. If you have a 'one night stand', you wouldn't tell an elderly friend, as you would feel wrong(like a thief telling a doctor about what he he been stealing). However, no doubt you would tell your same age friends, and this would 'make it feel OK'(Like a thief talking to another thief).

As a result of this type of scenario, you must realise that A)you are breaking previously understood standards of decency, or B)Standards of decency and morals in society are falling. This is why you would be embarassed to tell a much older friend about what you've been up to.

I'm not a serious 'bible basher', just someone who can see and see whats happening to society today, and worries about this downward spiral dive that standards of decency are taking.

Velvet
26th Jun 2001, 04:22
Iceolareanic - you've once again dodged the question you are asking.

Now, you go first and tell us exactly how you see yourself. Not how you judge others and society. Or are you afraid to shine the light on yourself.

Until then, I for one can't take you seriously. I'm not about to bare my soul for your particular prurient interest. You haven't earned that right yet.

Iceolareanic
26th Jun 2001, 17:40
Yes Velvet, I do think I'm a decent person. Looking back over the years I wouldn't have considered myself to always have been entirly decent. In the past, I have made mistakes which would detract from it. Maybe I have too higher standards, and expect that from others too.

I think most people would decide that I have led a decent life, however that was not the question I asked.

I'm also not looking back on life with todays standards, I'm questioning my own thoughts about myself at each time. I have done things which weren't entirly decent, and knew this at the time. This is something which if I thought about at the time, I would have realised that it went against decent standards taught in religeon. However that is in the past, and I now look at my manners and actions very closely, so that I may never again have to face myself having done something that wasn't entirly decent by my own standards.

cadaver
26th Jun 2001, 17:52
no mate, I'm totally indecent.....!!

Steepclimb
26th Jun 2001, 18:37
Ok I'll play the game, Icy, by the way whatever happened to Tartan Gannet?

By my own standards I am a decent person. My standards insist that you treat people properly and as you would you wish to be treated by them. Morality such as it exists is to protect people from other people's behaviour. Unfortunately, morality is also used to by people to oppress people. I make no accusations but certain groups make full use of this to apply their attitudes on other people and enhance their own position. If you disapprove of someone's morality and attempt to enforce your standards on them you are by my standards, immoral and oppressive.
Quite frankly there are aspects of my life which you would find immoral. As I don't inflict them on other people without their enthusiastic consent, I remain true to my moral position.
I keep it a secret partly because of the criticism that would be heaped on my head and for the fact that it might offend other people's morality and upset them. That would be against my moral standards.
So I am a decent person, in that I avoid hurting other people. Your problem I suspect is that personal morality is an anathema to you. You've made it obvious that you yearn for the time when there was a greater certainty in the world and in society. You really didn't have to think for yourself you just followed the unwritten rules. I remind you that this period coincided with most of the major wars and atrocities committed in the main by 'decent' men obeying orders and doing the right thing by the standards of public morality they operated under. Most religious wars were fought for and blessed by the respective clerics. But they were true to themselves. Women were restricted in what they could do, any woman who challenged this was dismissed as immoral, that still happens. You could keep slaves, nothing wrong with that is there? You could hang a man for stealing bread.
Need I go on?
Decency is anything you say it is, I wouldn't dream of stopping you from thinking for yourself. Would you allow me the same privelige?

Tricky Woo
26th Jun 2001, 19:25
Iceola, Rea & Nic,

Which one am I talking to? Is it a multiple personality disorder, or three separate people with the same login?

I can confirm that I am a truly, devoutly and acknowledged 'decent person'. Honest.

TW

OzExpat
26th Jun 2001, 19:39
Ice-whatever... Using my perceptions of your standards, I'm a completely indecent and morally corrupt person. I'm happy with this summation and will face up to my "sins" at a much more appropriate time than here and now.

If you believe you're capable of "saving" me, you're in for some disappointment. If I elect to be "saved", I will choose someone I know. Someone I can have "faith" in.

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Dispela olgeta samting i pekpek bilong bulmakau!

BlueDiamond
26th Jun 2001, 20:28
Ice, you appear to be incorrectly using the word "higher" next to "standards". I believe the word you are looking for is "different". It is not so long ago that it was questionable for a woman to wear make-up at work, to wear pants rather than skirts or dresses or to be seen in public without a hat and gloves.

So, as we put on the lippy and slip into our favourite jeans before going out with bare hands and our hair blowing in the breeze are we conforming to a lower standard or a different one?

When we have a normal adult relationship with more than one partner in our lifetime are we behaving to a lower standard if we have a hundred lovers or a higher one if we have only five? If we remain in a loveless, brutal relationship for the sole reason that we are married, is that following a "higher" standard?

What about your own standards Ice? Have they fallen so low that you will take a woman out who is not properly chaperoned? Perhaps you have allowed your dress standards to slip and no longer bother to carry a sword or keep your visiting cards in a silver case. Have you ever allowed yourself to strike up a conversation with a lady to whom you have not been properly introduced? Have you ever written a letter using a biro instead of a proper fountain pen?

Pretty sad state of affairs hmmm? Or does your definition of "higher standards" apply only to the conduct of the generation prior to your own? At what point does the higher standard become the outdated social practice and your behaviour is considered eccentric rather than correct?

Wholigan
27th Jun 2001, 01:27
Oleo et al,

I have a set of values; some of these have been given to me during my upbringing, but a significant number have been caused by rebellion against some values that I experienced during my developmental period.

Every day I see some things that I admire and some things that appal me. There are also many shades of experience in between those two extremes on a daily basis.

The end result is that I am what I am. As it happens, I am quite comfortable with what I am today. But my real question is "what the Hell has it got to do with you"?

Send Clowns
27th Jun 2001, 01:43
Iceo, dear boy, I think you misjudge my older friends. My father was a pilot, and I count an old RAF colleague of his as a close friend. I would be happy to tell him or his wife pretty much what I would tell my friends from university. You also probably underestimate the ages of some herepresent. No offense to any, but some are no longer teenagers. Even at the bash, face to face, we were all quite happily being as obscene as we ever are here, male and female, young and old. We even had a discussion about having sidestepped Danny's 'Hotel-lobby rule' by bringing hotel lobby conversation down to the level of JB instead of taking JB up to lobby standards. I would certainly talk less overtly about sex with university friends (except the pilots I knew there) who are my age than with people here, many of whom are older.

If standards are slipping, and it's due to social acceptability of extra-marital sex and the reduction in the role of the church, then you approve of prostitution, Icy?

You do realise that in Victorian England, with family values extrememly important and church attendance expected behaviour there were more brothels in London than at any other time in our history, don't you? Or are you actually completely ignorant of historical reality, and just trying to make out that your gang made the world a better place when it was more influential?

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'Me here at last on the ground, you in mid air'

RW-1
27th Jun 2001, 02:47
Ummmmm ...... brothels ...... :)

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Marc

DanAirline
27th Jun 2001, 03:20
No

Winston Smith
27th Jun 2001, 03:58
Iceolareanic,

I consider the question in itself to be an affront. How dare you even doubt one second that I am the most decent person ever to have enlightened this forum? :)

JudyTTexas
27th Jun 2001, 06:42
I'm a sinner saved by Grace. :)

pigboat
27th Jun 2001, 07:39
As a fan of Jefferson Airplane, I've been saved by Grace Slick. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

In the words of the immortal Popeye, "I yam what I yam, an' that's all that I yam."

Wholigan
27th Jun 2001, 13:05
Judy, would you please introduce me to Grace so that I too can be saved (from what - I refuse to say :) ).

JudyTTexas
27th Jun 2001, 17:05
Pigboat, God happened to say the very same thing...except He said "I AM" ;)

Wholi, I can throw in Mercy for you too. :)

Big Red ' L '
27th Jun 2001, 17:46
Icyeo. I am directly responsible for the lives and safety of literally thousands of people each week. At work, i am a totally dedicated professional, i have a lot of responsibility as i say. In here though on JB, i let off steam by posting exactly what i think, its a great way of getting rid of the stress and harmless too. How can anyone compare if i am a decent person just by what i post in here......Get real.

Iceolareanic
27th Jun 2001, 18:03
Big Red L, Most people who are writing in this topic, are mentioning themselves, as well as other points in life. The question as first stated, is how do you view yourself.

I am not trying to assess wether you are a decent person, I was asking wether you, who knows yourself better than anyone else, considers you to be a decent person.

Responsibility and decency are not the same. The person with their finger on the nuclear trigger has more responsibility than all of us put together, but wether they are a decent person is another matter.

Big Red ' L '
27th Jun 2001, 18:15
I get your point Icy. The question sort of gets lost a bit as the thread goes on.

Of course i think i am a decent person....

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Its not the fall that kills you...Its the sudden stop.....

Velvet
27th Jun 2001, 22:09
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Do you think you are a decent person, realise you aren't, or just don't care?</font>

Now Iceolareanic do you honestly expect anyone to turn round and state (not if they are really being serious) 'Oh, yes I don't think I'm decent'. Or, ’hey ice – I’m not a nice guy, but do you think I care’.

From your posts you seem to believe that only Christian church goers are decent, despite much evidence to the contrary.

However, it will come down to how one views decency – as Blue Mountain so eloquently and concisely explained – decency is very much linked to moral standards (personal and social). These have a habit of changing and what is indecent and immoral in one era becomes normal behaviour and totally acceptable only a generation or even a decade later.

You believe yourself to be decent, based on what – your own perception of what is right. Is this really how a decent person thinks, judging others because they don’t fit in with preconceived notions of what is right or wrong. What measure of decency do you use to judge your actions – some arcane religious set of rules, or a more compassionate humane set of ethics.

I may not measure up to your standards of decency, but there again you probably wouldn’t measure up to mine. I do my best to live by a very simple set of rules, one of which is ‘do not willingly harm others’. I have a few other tenets and life rules (given me by a very wise and good woman), but nothing too complicated and certainly not Christian.

Strange, decent can mean so many things - including pure, demure, wholesome, modest, well-mannered, virtuous - now, I don't think these would apply to many who post in JB including you. ;)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2"> Responsibility and decency are not the same. The person with their finger on the nuclear trigger has more responsibility than all of us put together, but wether they are a decent person is another matter. </font>
They’d better be decent, otherwise the whole world is in bigggggg trouble.



[This message has been edited by Velvet (edited 27 June 2001).]

Davaar
29th Jun 2001, 09:55
Ice, the opening sentence in your first post here poses a question to which you cannot know the answer, and yet your last sentence presupposes a negative answer. Your later posts support that, and place you with the Pharisee in the parable. You remember, he like you was not an extortioner, unjust, or an adulterer. He was, as you might put it, very decent. He fasted twice in the week and gave tithes of all he possessed. Sound chap. Oddly enough, Jesus was not much impressed.

I learn a great deal from these religious threads. Contributors are, pretty much, one of (a) “Christian”, (b) not Christian, or (c) formerly Christian, but no longer, and we all bring a life history with us, not one of them easy; or if one has uniquely been easy, it is not always going to be easy.

Not all, I think, but certainly some, of the “Christians” are arrogant and exclusionary. I suspect they through two millennia are the heaviest cross Christ ever had to bear. Well, they are too often what we meet as Christians. For my part, though, I do believe I have met Christ Himself a few times, in different forms; a nursing nun, an RC chaplain, a presbyterian minister, a helpful secretary. He need not be Mother Theresa, but when you have met Him, you know: “Come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest”.

I was once chatting about church history with a presbyterian minister: The Early Fathers, Roman Catholicism, Reformation, Calvin, Luther, Knox, Hus, Auld Kirk, Episcopacy, Free Kirk, Auld Lichts, New Lichts, Original Secession, The Disruption, Covenanters, Cameronians, and on and on. You would have thought it mattered to him, and I think it did.

Then he dismissed all that: “Of course, all this is useless to a suicidal prostitute in Leith. She needs Christ”.

He was a strict abstainer from alcohol ....... and then he hits you with: “You will meet more of Christ from many a bartender than you will in many a church”.

You know, Ice, perhaps Christ is in that very prostitute in Leith. Do you know that He is not? Do you know how her light shines in, let's call it just as a convention, Heaven? Do you?



[This message has been edited by Davaar (edited 29 June 2001).]

BlueDiamond
29th Jun 2001, 20:50
Davaar, that was a beautiful expression of one of life's most profound truths. God lives in all His people, the prostitute as well as the priest. Our arrogance prevents us from recognising and accepting this.

Wholigan
30th Jun 2001, 00:31
Judy,

I have both faith and hope that you will show some charity and introduce me to both Grace and Mercy.

:) :) :)

Release
2nd Jul 2001, 03:40
Decency seems to be flexible, old stlye decency dies and a new one comes along to take it's place.

Anyone mind if I set my standards of decency by what it will have degenerated into in 100 years time? At this rate, by then we'll all be shagging anything that moves and manogomy will be a misspelt bit of wood!

neutral
2nd Jul 2001, 12:59
Whatever happened to "judge not, lest ye be judged"?

Hypocrites exist in all forms and all religions.

Perhaps you are best served to see "the mote in your own eye"

Slasher
2nd Jul 2001, 16:40
I wouldnt say Im real decent but I wouldnt class myself as a total pr!ck either. I must be somewhere in between then.
Ive been described by some ladys as "a rough diamond" whatever that means.

swashplate
2nd Jul 2001, 17:30
What does it matter what you think????

Surely its more important what others think about you.......

Why not come to a bash iceleoranic, then we can all judge for ourselves....???

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Live long and Prosper.....

[This message has been edited by swashplate (edited 02 July 2001).]

redsnail
2nd Jul 2001, 19:35
Well, a few opinions that I had have been confirmed at the various Bashes I have been to.

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reddo...feral animal!