View Full Version : If Osama Bin Laden Surrendered..?

26th Sep 2001, 00:01
What if OBL walked into the NYC Mayor's office and gave himself up? What would they do? Would they find a way to execute him without trial, going against everything the US avowedly holds dear? But how could he have a fair trial, in NYC or anywhere? Would the CIA try to dispose of him on the sly? (Unlikely to be successful, given their pops at Castro)

Lawyers et al out there, what do you reckon?

26th Sep 2001, 00:10
I would make him spend the rest of his days in Liverpool. That way he might come to appreciate Kabul.

26th Sep 2001, 00:25
My bet is, that in the finest tradition of double dealing and skulduggery prevalent in the USA, he would meet with an inexplicable accident which for years afterwards would be argued about by conspiracy theorists. This would make quite a few TV pundits and writers quite wealthy in the process. The aftermath of the assassination of JFK would serve as a template.

26th Sep 2001, 00:53
What if he showed up in Dover and claimed asylum?

26th Sep 2001, 01:05
Apparently Irish soldiers have surrounded the Debenhams department store
in Dublin after receiving information that Bed Linen was on the 2nd floor

They have also stormed Battersea Dogs Homes and shot 40 Afghans....

26th Sep 2001, 01:08
...dude. Please.

26th Sep 2001, 02:41
Surely that's contrary to the Geneva Convention, JPJ?

26th Sep 2001, 04:42
What if your aunt had balls? Would she be your uncle?

26th Sep 2001, 15:38
Bin Ladenīs aunts have balls.

Desk Driver
26th Sep 2001, 18:26

Why the F**k do you even care? :eek:

Apart from the 6000+ people he killed last week. He has been responsible for many terrorist acts already. Kill him, try him, cook him or shag him. I don't Care.

All I want to know is that he suffers in some way :mad:

26th Sep 2001, 20:12

There is no Debenhams in Dublin D*ckwad!!

Tartan Gannet
30th Sep 2001, 19:46
Bin Laden and any of his adherents involved in the inevitable firefight should receive exactly the same "fair trial" he gave all the innocent people who died on Sept 11 at WTC and elsewhere. Shot as soon as apprehended, his body displayed for the world to see (as happened to the late Che Guevara when he was killed), so there would be no doubt that it really was Bin Laden's corpse, then burned without any religious rites and the ashes disposed of in an dishourable manner, eg into the common sewers. As I have said before, Democracy is only for those who abide by its precepts and if ever someone was an International Outlaw then he is one.

30th Sep 2001, 19:58
So, TG, you've decided that he is guilty and, therefore doesn't need a trial?

I would agree in not showing him any mercy once he is found guilty, assuming that he is found guilty.

However, by suspending all civilised values, you lower yourself to his level. You become the terrorist, the person who assumes all the rights of deciding who does and who does not deserve punishment. How then are you any better than he is? What right do you then have to complain when his friends whom you have not yet rooted out do the same to you?

Since you've returned you appear to have suspended all rational thought, all humanity which you formerly had, and which made you a worthy debating opponent. Nowadays you are displaying no compassion or respect for anyone, no intelligence (that we all know you possess), and not much sense. We've all had enough raw violence. Please don't add to it.

Tartan Gannet
30th Sep 2001, 21:47
I dont know why I waste my time with you, but we have tried your way with terrorists of ALL types and it hasnt worked, just look what happened to that Nationalist Journo in Ulster at the hands of Prod Terrorists during a so-called cease fire. Now is the time for more robust measures against terrorism. They have chosen the currency, let us pay them back in their own coin with interest! Good luck to Dubya and the American and Allied Forces out there!

tony draper
30th Sep 2001, 21:59
Get medieval with his ass.
Full pre frontal lobotomy, wipe his disc, then keep him in a small cage and let people stop and p*ss on him for the rest of his miserable life.

[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

30th Sep 2001, 22:01
I don't know why you "waste your time", either. But thank you for being so indulgent.

Which journalist do you mean, precisely?

If you are determined to lower yourself to the level of the terrorists, then there is little I can do to stop you. I would suggest you take another look at the thread that suggested we should let the SAS lose in Northern Ireland.

If all you want to do is to upset Muslims everywhere, and fill them with the desire to avenge Bin Laden, then go ahead. Have you learnt nothing from seeing what has been going on all over the world?

I echo your wishes of good luck for all who are putting themselves in harm's way on my behalf. However, I do not wish them to consider revenge for revenge's sake. I have some respect for myself, and for some basic principles of International Law.

I repeat my request that you go back to using your head, as you used to, and refrain from any attempt to be personally insulting.

Tartan Gannet
30th Sep 2001, 22:25
I have no desire to bandy words with you HM, a mutual waste of time and energy as Im sure you would agree, we have totally different and irreconcilable value systems in this regard.

FYI, a nationalist supporting journalist who worked for a Dublin based newspaper was shot dead on Friday as he came home from his local pub in Ulster. This action was claimed by one of the Protestant Terrorist Paramilitary Groups. Im really surprised that a well read man such as yourself wasnt aware of this murder as it was on teletext, BBC Radio news and most newspapers and has been specifically condemned by Mr John Reid, Blair's NI Secretary of State.

30th Sep 2001, 22:46
The 21st Century West is under attack from people with a medieval value system, which was, for most in the West, ended by the Enlightenment.

For mature democracies to fight medieval values with medieval methods demeans everything that civilised society stands for.

When you say your prayers tonight, TG, please add the line:

"Please God grant me the wisdom and the patience to understand that you have challenged us with complex problems, to which we will not find simple answers"

Amen to that

30th Sep 2001, 22:56
Tartan, as far as I can see you don't have a "different value system" - you have abandoned all values you previously displayed.

If I have been rather busy this weekend as have not watched much TV, and this irritates you, I apologise.

Your simplistic "solution" will not work. It will merely result in the world descending in a tight spiral of violence, terror, bigotry, murder and chaos.

What has happened to you in your absence that you have abandoned all principles, all rational thought, all reasoned response, and have been spewing insult, sarcasm and hatred ever since your return?

I missed the old TG. He was generally fun to dispute with, had good arguments, had a system of values and morals I could recognise (if not fully agree with). I hoped you would return. However, I still miss the old TG. This new TG comes across to me as a vile, hating, unthinking, uncaring, selfish cross-burner, and if he were to leave I would not mourn his absence.

1st Oct 2001, 00:52
This looks like a good thread to add it to.

George W. Bush Ibn George W. Bush (http://bushfordummies.com/images/bush_taliban.jpg)


Tartan Gannet
1st Oct 2001, 01:15
Superpilot, even given the seriousness of the subject, that WAS funny.

HM, you liked the "old" TG did you? REALLY??? I imagined all the sarcastic put downs, the intellectual arrogance then did I????

No more Mr Nice Guy, this Gannet uses its claws and beak.

1st Oct 2001, 01:26
TG, compared to the present TG, the old one was a pleasure to debate with. I couldn't go so far as to say that I liked him, but he had honest views and opinions, honestly held, and he generally argued from logic and experience rather than from raw emotion and cruelty.

This one is unpleasant in every regard, appears to lack any power of logical thought, compassion, reason, or any saving grace whatsoever. You don't appear to have a good word for anyone. Has anyone said anything good about you since your return? I've tried very hard not to attack you directly. I've attacked very strongly the hard-bitten, badly-thought out nonsense you've been posting, and what has been the response? Snide comments and hatred.

Teeth and claws, you say? Well, if that works for you. But you'll find that there are always bigger teeth and sharper claws out there somewhere. If you really like the "new you" then I suggest you go with it. I don't think you'll keep many friends, but that's your choice.

[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: HugMonster ]

1st Oct 2001, 01:29
Gentlemen - order, please!

What seperates us as men from animal (including some of the ******* species) is the ability to CHOOSE OUR REACTION and our response to what life throws at us.

Usama & Co. are apparently so hell-bent in their hatred that they feel able to see past thousands of dead civilians from the WTC in order to fulfill their dreams. This group of fanatics have managed effectively to demonstrate that they hold no personal freedom to choose their actions - their hatred controls them completely.

Had these guys held any princple in their "warfare", they would have hit the Pentagon (DoD - basically soldiers, so they knew they were liable targets) and the White House (CIC of the armed forces - the President). These are military targets. WTC was not, neither were the hundreds of EMS and FD personnel who died. This act of barbarism separates them completely from us - and thus allows us to choose our reponse to their actions...

WE ARE NOT LIKE THEM! If we let our hatred guide us, we LOOSE, big-time! If we choose to use the rules of democracy (including fair trials and appropriate punishment) to beat them, we win physically, economically and morally. This is OUR way - don't let them lead you guys astray!

Do them injustice, kill innocent civilians - and we increase the problem = more fanatics aboard yours and my aircraft. Please, think with your brains instead of your balls and keep them out of our flightdecks!

- or at least out of mine! Please?

1st Oct 2001, 01:45

In your (understandable) irritation and frustration with a Caledonian Raptor (Second Class) please don't lose sight of the fact that dear old Tartan is an essentially comic character. There is not much evil in him, just an abyss of ignorance. IMHO he is best regarded with affectionate, if sometimes exasparated, amusement.

"There is more joy in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth than over nine-and-ninety that are just"

(Sorry, Your PPruneship, that's not really religion - honest).


Tartan Gannet
1st Oct 2001, 03:41
Let me give you two over educated bufoons a bit of my own personal history.

As a teenager I was a thin lad and bookish. I was at school simply to be taught and hopefully pass the exams required to get on in adult life and kept to the rules. Unfortunately as I was also to find in grown up life there were the bullies who had no such intention and frankly were only seeing their time out till 15 as the leaving age then was. They did however make life a misery for many of the more serious students such as myself. Now the victims, myself included, tried complaining to the teachers but our Head was a trendy progessive who instead of wielding his strap, the good old Scots "Lochgelly" tried the , "lets all be pals, talk it over approach". The bully seemed to go along with this in front of the teachers then took it out on the lads who had complained about him. Such "official" means availing us no relief we ganged up on the swine and gave him a bloody good hiding on the way home from school one evening. Result? He lost face and standing with the other hard men at school, and they in turn saw that we would no longer take it and left us in peace. When they all left at 15 to work in the then still lively shipyards and factories in Glasgow we were left to enjoy the remainder of our schooldays learning in peace.

So, I then found that if you turn the other cheek, you get a doubly sore face.

HM if you dont like me, (in either incarnation), I really couldn't care less, same goes for that patronising prig from Oxfordshire. I will stick to my opinions of terrorists and other malefactors and how I feel they ought to be responded to. I suggest you listen to what ORDINARY people feel on such topics, not the received wisdom of the Guardian, BBC World Service and the chattering classes.

In any event the powers that be, Bush and his acolyte Blair, will not be consulting any of us when they take retributory action against Bin Laden and his Taleban hosts.

1st Oct 2001, 04:00
Well, I'm very sorry to hear you were bullied at school, TG. So what did you learn from that? You learned that violence breeds violence. They learned that might is right. Now there's a useful lesson, that forwards the human race - NOT.

The situation over these terrorists is not quite the same.

I'm not quite sure what you think an "ordinary" person is. You clearly don't think I'm "ordinary". Perhaps you think an "ordinary person" is someone who hasn't had a good education (as I've been privileged to receive) or trained to use his brain, or to get his information from more than the tabloids, but to gather information from a mixture of different sources, and then make his own mind up? Perhaps an "ordinary" person, in your opinion, is someone whose received "wisdom" is from what he reads in "The Sun"?

To be quite honest, I can't remember when I last read The Guardian, but it wouldn't have been very long ago. When buying newspapers, I tend to get at least two of The Times, The Telegraph, The Independent, The Guardian, the FT or the various broadsheet Sundays. If I see a tabloid lying around I'll read through it. I haven't listened to the World Service in quite some time. Mostly Radio 4 if I want news coverage while I'm driving.

You'll find that most "ordinary" people out there have a very wide mixture of views on Bin Laden. Very few to whom I've spoken share your views. Many are very worried about a backlash if we are not seen to act fairly and justly. All realise that we need to keep on the good side of moderate Muslims and that, while there is a lot of immediate satisfaction in nailing the whole bunch to the wall and then peeing on them, that satisfaction is very short-lived. Then will come the price we have to pay.

All to whom I have spoken have some degree of compassion and empathy for the feelings of moderate Muslims, have no sympathy with terrorists, would like to see some evidence against Bin Laden, and have a lot of human feeling for the possible fate of innocent Afghans.

What happened to yours?

PS Which "patronising prig" from Oxfordshire?

[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: HugMonster ]

1st Oct 2001, 04:51
If he were to be put on trial in the West, who wants to volunteer to round up twelve of this cocks*****s peers for jury duty?
He should be subjected to every Islamic terrorists worst nightmare. Take the son of a bitch alive and turn him over to the Israelis. :mad:

gravity victim
1st Oct 2001, 18:17
It was Dunne's Stores in Dublin... ;)

Mr Creosote
2nd Oct 2001, 08:43
Biscuit Chucker

Bin Ladin himself may indeed not have been involved in the detailed planning of this attack. However, as he has apparently issued a jihad against US citizens everywhere, and no doubt is involved in the overall terrorist strategy, the timing and detailed means can be left to his large international terrorist organisation. This makes him no less guilty, but makes the proof much harder to obtain.

The scenario that greatly concerns me is one where BL's group has gotten hold of a weapon of mass destruction of some sort. It would be difficult and risky for him to bring such a weapon (or weapons) into the US mainland, but he may have used the attack on New York to provoke a large portion of US military into coming looking for him, and hence bringing them in range. Such a strategy was suggested as Saddam Hussein's reason for invading Kuwait - to provoke the US to send a large conventional force to Saudi Arabia, where a single small nuclear device could have wiped out thousands. (Recommend reading Frederick Forsyth's "The Fist of God").

Celtic Emerald
2nd Oct 2001, 14:22
If Bin Laden surrendered I'd eat my hat

I believe he'll fight till the last in his jihad, which incidentally in the Muslim religion is supposed to mean a struggle with your inner spirit between right and wrong and not the much misinterpreted "holy war".

Logically thinking people prefer to come out of a battle alive but fanatics as we have witnessed with these fundamentalists, (a phenomenon we also saw with the Japanese kamikaze pilots back in WW11) welcome death & martyrdom in pursuit of their "righteous cause". That's where they have the upper hand. They pose such a threat because they don't live by our mindset and rules. They are so brainwashed with all this paradise and all these virgins waiting for them crap and that they are dying for Allahs cause that they are prepared to go against the natural instinct humans have for survival & self preservation. I suspect atleast I hope there in for a very nasty surprise.

Nah Bin Laden will fight till the last till he's 'captured' dead or alive & don't believe all this Taliban crap about giving him up, crafty sons of bitches they are, buying time if I ever saw it :rolleyes:

Crumbs hope I haven't strayed into the forbidden areas of politics & religion with this post :eek: At this rate we'll be left discussing cartoons, never my best area.

Welcome back Tartan Gannet


9th Oct 2001, 15:39
i like the idea that if they catch osama they should give him a sex change and force him to live under taliban rules! :D :p :D