Massey Uni Ardmore campus closure?

[Luke SkyToddler]

Maybe I'm a bit behind the times here on the other side of the world but I just read on the Herald website that Massey are to close their ardmore branch?

Looks like the final insult for the once mighty Flightline :(

What is happening to the staff are they getting relocated or will they be yet another bunch of "commercial pilots" on the lengthy list at the Papakura dole office?

What about the buildings and the actual training operation, is it going to be bought or sold or just mothballed?

[Oktas8]

Gudday Luke,

Due to lots of airline hiring there are not as many staff affected as there would have been a year or two ago - particularly B-cats.

But I don't know the answer to your question.

cheers,
O8

[wheatools]

From talking with some of the guys it sounds as if many have managed to move on to bigger/better/other jobs around and about the place.

The problem lies in that many have left already and there are quite a few students at the campus still struggling to get their time from the instructors still working... not a good look from the students eyes.

Aparently the decision is from a financial standpoint and the school is trying to consolidate back in Palmerston North. A few other reasons like wasted time for the students travelling from ardmore to the albany campus have also been mentioned.

This is all i can remember from what i've been told but ill do some digging for more facts

[Horse Nuts]

Also heard theat the Airport Management are upping the fee's for Massey and the likes.

Massey is obliviouly the first to go.

[Horse Float Driver]

So much for being close to the major popultion hub of NZed...That's the reason they gave for taking over Flightline in the first place!

Look's like Chargemore Flying school is the only option for Aucklanders wanting to become pilots.

Just goes to show you "if it aint broke, why fix it" obviously the flying school has been doing something right for the last 50+ years!

[Archon]

I've only just started at Massey doing the ATP degree at Palmerston. But from what I've been able to assertain so far is that consolodation of both Ardmore and palmy seems to be the most logical thing to do. Weather it be closing Ardmore or Palmy, it has to happen due to some lecturers teaching at both campus's (or is that campie?) and stretched resources across both. The fact that Ardmore was chosen to close, to my understanding, is that Auckland is a busy place to learn in, plus lots of travel for students living there.

As for 'suposeded' lack of options available to learn to fly in Auckland now is rubbish... Just do what some other students on my course have done... Move! One guy has moved from Dunedin. If you are committed to learn you will move anywhere.

Well thats my opinion...
Cheers

[Luke SkyToddler]

Yeah if you are committed to learning about aviation you'll move alright ... to any place in the country except Massey :rolleyes:

Could it be that their reputation is finally catching up with them? Maybe the sheer weight of disillusioned B. Av holders working in Burger King is finally starting to take it's toll ...

[Horse Nuts]

I recently received a PM from the person below. I thought I would also post my reply here.



wheatools wrote on 12th March 2004 15:44:
whats your problem mate, massey doesnt make prize pricks only prize pricks make prize pricks!!

Keep stupid generalisations to yourself



Mate

You really need to grow up a little.

Great little PM from you though........ or should I call you Forest Gimp Mrs wheatools?

So what if I went to Massey and didn't find the training there up to scratch. So what if the industry doesn't like the graduates from Massey. So what that once I graduated I had to go overseas to get away from it.

Your point being?

Massey does have a bad rap.... But in the beginning when I started it was the new kid on the block and had shiny new things to play with.

Massey might give you the shiny CPL and a degree but after that you're left on your own in NZ.

I went overseas and flew in the bush in PNG. Now that really opens your eyes.

At Massey you're promised the world and once you get into the real world you find it a different place.

And as your statement says about prize pricks - who is the prize prick now.

[wheatools]

Horse nuts, The PM you recieved from me was in regards to a completely different thread about a young guy asking the reputation of massey. You stated 'dont go to massey unless you want to become a prize prick'. The PM was get the point accross that just because some people train at massey doesnt make them all 'pricks' as you call them, yes the school has issues NOT necessisarily all the people who train(ed) there! I was objecting to the ridiculous generalisation that you made.

Attatck the issues mate, leave pathetic personal attatcks out of here

[Horse Float Driver]

I know some good guys and girls who have both trained and worked for Massey, and they all seem to be doing alright if you ask me.

Personally I think that Massey is misunderstood, and a lot of the bad rap they have in the NZed industry is from people who know no better!

Go back 4-5 years they were the only Degree based programme in NZed, look at what happened as a result...Canterbury in bed with some tertiary instutute, Ardmore Flying School and Manukau Tech (is this still happening?), Flight 2000/Simuflight and Waikato Tech (no longer), Hawkes bay and ---. Why? because of full funding and trying to compete for the same "slice of toast".

So if Massey had it soooo wrong why did all the others try to emulate them!

As I have said before a shame that there experiment with "Flightline" didn't work, will be interesting to see what their intakes will be like for the single campus, and also to see if there is any significant change to Ardmore Flying Schools intakes.

If it were my business (and it's not) I would think twice about leaving the biggest population behind and settleing in the "Armpit of the North Island" but they will probably prove me wrong, and I will have wasted my breath.
:ok:

[kiwi22]

As a Massey student the news that the Ardmore centre was planned for closing came as not a great shock. The University seemed to be loosing money and has now made a decision to consolidate operations at Palmerston North. It has left the students in a difficult position trying to finish flying, some staff have left already and others have plans to go soon.

I will be happy to finish asap because the centre seems to be suffering from a long, slow closure/death. No doubt it will have effects on Ardmore Flying School as many students from my class and others have gone to Ardmore after leaving Massey.

[Cloud Cutter]

So if Massey had it soooo wrong why did all the others try to emulate them!

To level the playing field (it obviously worked, hence the topic of this thread). These Diploma courses are nothing like a Massey Degree (the basic structure involves about 1/3 the theory component) - they are Polytechs (NMIT, WINTEC, EIT).
These courses allow more conventional training organisations (Flying Schools and Aero Clubs) to offer student loans (not government funding, loans!). In my experience, smaller, less money-hungry institutions are more responsible when it comes to screening applicants.

I don't see why some people get all hot and bothered about student loans for flight training. They are available to help people prepare for most other career choices - Just because you did it the hard way:{ , aviation is hard enough - deferring payment (at no cost to the tax payer) till you're earning a decent crust makes sense IMO.

[Six Lima]

Horse Float Driver: Just a little confused by the 3rd paragraph in your last post. Not interested in arguing over who's better, but may I suggest that the reason the others all joined up with the polytechs was merely as a vehicle to get full funding; not, as you imply because the combined flight training/degree idea is so great. I used to work at Canterbury and am dead against their diploma course. I wouldn't be surprised if most CFIs are as well but realise if they offer a diploma they can offer full funding for flight training and consequently nearly triple their student numbers (as in CAC's case).I don't believe students go to Canterbury, Ardmore etc because they want a diploma, simply the fact they can do it for "free". I would suggest there are two markets here; those students who believe a degree/diploma is vital, and those who would rather concentrate on the flight training. In my time at CAC I was unaware of anyone doing diploma papers, let alone comleting the diploma.

My personal feeling: if you want a degree, get it in something other than aviation. If you want a CPL/blah/blah/blah go to a full time training establishment with a solid history.

Never the twain shall meet?

Why shouldn't you be able to get a student loan purely for flight training?

(Just seen your post CC. Great minds!)

[kwikenz]

Cloud cutter... smaller organisations are more responsible with their selsection?!

What a load of rubbish.

I would be would be happy to retract if you could provide evidence that any selection criteria is applied by the 'smaller' organisations.

Regards

[chicken6]

kwikenz

At least two of the "new generation" flying/theory/loan hybrids have a selection process involving face to face interviews with every serious candidate before selection. Massey told me I would have to have one but I never did, just the Wombat and a million-question personality scale that they let me take home! AND it had the "Which parent do you prefer" question several times!

I think the biggest problems flying schools have now that the market is so stretched is how to attract students at all, and as Six Lima said, it appears from the pre-loan-repayments end that the training is effectively free if the place has student loan access. On the other hand, if all loan access was cut off from the end of this year (as if! :hmm: ) then what would an organisation need to survive? Same as it used to 10 years ago! A big, wealthy population who don't live near the airport.

Long term, I think the issue is going to be who puts out credible students, when so many organisations do not have genuine links with airlines. I'm thinking ComAir, Delta, BA style cadetships etc. Perhaps the local airlines could think about such a scheme? It would guarantee they got trained the way they want, and the selection process could have a hell of a lot of knowledge behind it.

What the hell has this got to do with Massey closing Ardmore, in the largest, wealthiest city with the worst transport problems? Stuffed if I know.

Hey Luke, how's the castle?

[kwikenz]

At least two of the "new generation" flying/theory/loan hybrids have a selection process involving face to face interviews

Pity is theres an awful lot more than 2 providers that have jumped on the loan bandwagon. Take Massey's biggest antagonist, Sattler... how happy is he now that NMIT are there to prop up his particular version of what a perfect pilot should be.

As for loans... the debate is well and truly brewing again. It would however seem this time though that Wellington os likely to tell us 2005 is going to be ... in about Nov2004! They have indcated a preference for your suggestion of cadetships and indsutry partnerships.

Sadly whilst it is an excellent idea, I would suggest Air New Zealand would be rather slow on the uptake given the cost. Hell, after so many years of getting a good enough product for free, why shold they pay I suppose? At least their is a growing relationship between Massey and ANZ now with various new initiatives... it may yield something.

For my 2 cents worth... for all Massey's failings, they are the only outfit who have the resources and know how to actively research and evlauate selection criteria. The problem is they have been reduced to competing with polytechs for essentially a GA product that is not Massey's core business!

I say shoot the polys and allow a very regulated number of Massey fixed wing and heli pilots to conduct high quality industry driven (Air New Zealand etc) undergrad qualification thorugh the loans scheme. Not enough to hurt the good old flying schools... hell make the content subject to the review of the flying schools if it would shut Sattler up.

This way its not just a rich mans game selection can actively be pursued and enforced.


Smooth skies

[kwikenz]

Quite right about the relative size issues and the single base.

The problems all started with the absorbtion of Flightline and the many ineconomies associated with delivering the same product twice. The whole thing was competition driven... thats the problem really... the Uni can never compete with the tin shack outfits cause they pay a little better and have a horde of academics and ancilliary staff to run things. As soon as loans were opened to everyone it was a matter of grow or die. I'm quite convinced all would be fairly ambivalent if Massey had stayed its origianl size and loans were kept at a minimum.

Funny... I hear that Massey pilots are actually very well trained... especially the instrcuting students!? There are idiots everywhere with the availability of loan funding.

I also know there is a major shift toward consultation and industry focus. But again why would the Uni want to go visit Sattler for how they should do things when he has nothing but poison for all but his own breed of superior pilot?

I have no doubt we will get more of the same at the AIA conference... Massey will be there for a change this time though, which should make things interesting. See you there.