ME rating prior to CPL

[Pilot steve]

G'day

I am 17 have completed my PPL and on the way to CPL. The consideration now is do i fork out the $3k ( couple of thousand burgers flipped at McD's worth) for a twin endorsement or do i use what little money i have to go towards hour building?

If i do go for the twin endorsement i run the risk of completeing it but then not haveing enough money to remain proficient at $300 a pop. I would be looking at doing the test in the single for the reasons others have already identified, but would hope to build up about 20 ME command pre-CPL.

What aircraft would be the best for initial twin endorsement / 20hrs ME command building. I have the option of travelair / seminole or possibly 310. What aircraft are primarily used up North? the plan right now is post CPL look for a charter job up north that will hopefully have progression to ME charter. If there are any CP's of companies who consider low time pilots for charter, how do you view ME time? and what aircraft would you like to see it in?

Your time is much apreciated and i eagerly awit your replies,

Pilot steve

[avguy1]

Do it now while you can still get it GST free, after CPL you can add 10%
Av

[Kliperoo]

Apart from the fact that you may get taxed more after a CPL, you probably would not be doing any twin time until you hit at least 500 hours.

It looks good it the logbook, but Ive got a buddy who did it that way, and has not flown a twin in 5 years. That was 3k that could have gone into his intructors or instrument rating later on that was just wasted.

Obviously its your choice, by if you have just come out of a PPL, do you think a) you could handle something at possibly twice the speed you are used to, b) not being able to play with the toys :oh: and like you pointed out c) not being able to afford it. Hopefully you choose right, not saying which was is, but I teach my students this way

PPL
CPL
Instructors
Instrument
ATPL

Good luck

[Kliperoo]

meant to say multi during Instrument...silly me:\

[Aerlik]

Invest it in C210/C206 time and you will be head and shoulders above many, many pilots who rock up in the north with a basic check ride and jack all experience. I speak from experience!

[kram]

Hi Steve,

I'm in the same boat as you.

Done my PPL and looking at doing the CPL. I've already got a Be76 ME rating so was thinking of doing the CPL hours in a twin.

At the end of the day it doesn't cost that much more. But what are the hours worth to a charter op? I don't know.

The only good point I can think of is to instruct ME you need a min of 50 hours ME, I think. But at this stage I'm not interested in instructing.

Bad points:
price(dual time)
if you get a engine failure, good luck

The above points only worry me because I have low time over all, 110 hours. The flying is pretty much the same as a single but if you lose an engine that's where it would get me mainly because the procedures are not practiced enough(if at all).

Send me a private message if you want to discuss it.

[MAXX]

Dont waste your money mate it wont help you get a job.
Trust me put it towards your commercial hours or other training.

Heres a tip,finish your commercial and research all the companies in the country that operate single engine pax joyflights and charter,they are your best bet to get started.

Heres another tip,only do an instructors ticket if you want to instruct.If you do it to get paid work and build up your time youll be very disappointed.(remember also that to get an instructors rating these days you are up for around 10,000 or more,thats if you want to learn how to be a good instructor)

Trust me on this if you put your $10,000 towards researching and travelling around the country meeting prospctive employers youll be alot better off.

Happy hunting and the very best of luck,after 14 years in the industry trust me its not always an easy road but you will get out of it what you put in.(ALWAYS TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS,IF SOMETHING SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE............).

Dont believe everything you flying school tells you,remember they are there to make money,they are not an employment agency.

[kram]

What about doing the CPL hours in a 210/206?

I've only seen one or two 210/206 for rental in Sydney, so it could be a problem trying to find one.

Would hours in a 182 or 172 do it? Or are you still told to go and get 210/206 time? They seem pretty much the same to me apart from engine and seating.

[Assweat]

Pilot Steve,

All good advice given to you so far. But remember if you are planning to go up North and pursue some Charter work most companies as far as I know(through friends on the same pilgramidge) are looking for around 500 hours before they will give you a start. The million doller question I guess, is how do you get this time and on what types should you be endorsed on.
C-210 and C-206 time would be advantages and highly recommended but how do you get your hands on that type of aircraft particularly if you are doing your training in a Major capital city. The other thing you need to consider which has not been mentioned so far is that most flying schools in the major cities do not operate those type of aircraft for training, and even if you were able to get your hands on one the insurance requirements regards hours on type are generally quite high for private hire especially for the C-210 as it will perform the same as or even better than your Seminoles, Dutchess or Travelairs.

All the best

:ok:

[High Altitude]

C182 is a beast of a machine & very similar to a 206/210.

Not only this but it would give you the advantage to drop meat bombs...

[splatgothebugs]

Here goes.

Its a goos idea, get your MEIR in a seneca or something that is commonly used on ATO's then you have it ready to go.

You then hour bulid for you CPL doing SE IFR (when the WX suits).

Then by the time you have your commercial you will also have close to the 50 hours IF required for you to teach IF once you have an instructors rating.

It means more money over a shorter period of time but will give you a large advantage come that first IF job.

splat :ok:

oops I just realised that your an ozzie, not sure if thats how the if instructor thing works over there. In NZ you need 50 hours on an IFR plan before you can teach any IF to students doing a IR.

Sorry if its not applicable, but I have seen a few people do it this way and it seems to work out better in the long run.

[Pilot steve]

Thank yo all, for your excellent replies.

I have made the decission to stick with singles for now, mainly due to cash problems, and possibly do the multi rateing towards the end of CPL, money permitting.

For now i am going to jump into a Bonanza to get a bit of expeirience in a bigger faster single, with the benifit of 6 seats.

My 18th is in January and at the end of this year i will be moving to Perth to complete my CPL. From there i will be looking for my first break, ideally in charter. I am willing to move anywhere in oz and my commitment and proessionalism to flying is second to none.

Just a couple more questions for all of you,

1) How did most of you go about researching charter companies and getting your first break? any tips or your expeirences would be great to hear. What was your first A/C type

2) Do any of you know of any names of charter companies who hire pilots with bare CPL and say 200 hrs TT, feel free to PM me any names.

3) due to most companies only hiring people with 500 TT do many people use instructing to build those first 500 hrs? is this adviseable?

4) Where's the best to start looking for my first charter job? Kallgoorie? Darwin?

5) how many hours per week flying time can be expected for a first charter job or juniour G3 instructor?

I cant say how much i appreciate all of the time taken to reply to my query,

Happy flying,
Pilot steve

[Aileron Roll]

Unless you have money to burn, forget the twin thing right now. Dont just "hour build"....... use the hours up to CPL as best you can..... aerobatics, lots of night time etc. These will be some of the best hours you ever fly, don't waste them bashing the circuit !

[Ralph the Bong]

My advice, Steve, is dont waste your money flying twins until you get your CPL. Use the money for private hire and get some experience in high performance singles. At PPL level, you will not have the depth of experience to get full value from ME training.

CPL training is really just PPL stuff pitched at a higher level. Use the private hours that you fly to do some 'real' flying. Plan to go crosscountry, to remote areas, in contolled airspace etc. and properly research and plan out the flights before you do them. Make sure that you know all the AIP, CAO, CAR requirements of any flight you undertake. Treat each one as a training exercise.

Once you have your CPL by all means get a ME rating. However the full benefit of ME training comes by doing it as part of IR training.

[turbantime]

I may be repeating other posts but use the cash to do some time on 206/210. You should then be in a better position to land a charter gig. If you're in a company with multi's online then you can do a multi rating then with the advantage that it becomes tax deductible or better still the company may even do one for you!

Only do the instructor rating if it's something you really want to do, otherwise use that money to get more time up and go job hunting.

Good luck

[Lasiorhinus]

Wow.. this thread answered questions I didnt know I even had!
Im looking at making the most of my hour building (im 100TT, looking to get CPL shortly) by tacking on a few ratings and endorsements... Ive already got CSU and Retract, and am thinking of heading to the USA to get some cheap cross country in, lots of hours (I found a C152 for $56 US/hr)

I was considering doing ME over there, but have decided based on opinions here to put the money into single engine command, but still go for tailwheel (coz theyre fun).
Is Private IFR worth my while or should I hold out on that and just get CIR with my CPL training?

Cheers

[rearwhelsteer888]

Pilot Steve if you can afford to get some multi go for it,the sooner you get a instrument rating the better,it is the thing that will set you apart from the rest.210/206 time is important but multi is what you are after,you skills will be honed so much more than in a 210,honestly I dont know what all the fuss is about these 200 series cessnas,easiest planes to fly around i reckon.206 for sure

Just remember,it's you that will get the job not your resume up north and when you get that check ride if you have multi experience you will perform so much better.Mate save your pennys and get a me/cir and then do some icus in a chieftain or the like,it pays dividends.mark my words,I know everyone on this post is saying different but it's worked for me and I'm glad i didnt instruct ,it would have got me more total hours but I'm sure im a much better pilot for it.
one important thing get your cpl first and then hook in .
good luck bud.
RWS888:E