Some ?'s on CX: Hours / Age / Bases...etc etc

[Ray Darr]

I'm awaiting "the call" for a CX interview, and I'd appreciate opinions on my chances.

A few years ago I was interviewed by CX when I had about 2,400 hours, mostly piston but some turboprop. I wasn't called, and recently re-applied. I now have 5,500 hours: over 3,000 turbine, including 2,200 Jet, of which 1,200 is on the A-320 (my current aircraft). No Command Jet (unfortunately) but I am just short of 2,000 PIC, including 1,700 Multi PIC. Age: 38

I'm preparing for "The Call" now, studying the usual material mentioned here on PPRuNe, plus anything I can find on CX in newspapers, magazines, websites, etc.

My wonderings:
1) Do I have a choice of Freighter or Passenger?

2) Do you think I'd have a chance for F/O, or would I enter as an S/O with my experience & age? (and what time to move to F/O and Captain is predicted based on the "now growth"?)

3) Basings: a) would it be HKG (which my wife and I enjoy) or anything in North America right away? If I can choose a N.Am base, is there truth to the roumered agreement between Canada and the gov't of HKG re taxes? (What is the tax-rate if living in Canada while working for CX?)
b) If I take a basing in N.Am, what does the contract allow for housing / transportation / etc? There has been talk here that there are great differences depending on where you are based, but nothing specific mentioned that I came across (yet).

4) Does being interviewed before have any great bearing on future chances? (I thought I did fairly well then, but General Aviation time then may not have been what CX was after.)

5) Does it make a big difference to have a friend in CX walk your application in personally (even after I have submitted it)?

6) Besides Capt X,Y,Z and HTBJ, knowing what I am flying now, plus the usual "Interview Prep" questions, is there any specific CX pool of questions available?

7) How much time away from either HKG or any N.Am base is typical? Is there any difference on time away depending on base or fleet?

I may have a few more questions to post later, but this may be a load enough for now. I've waited to join CX for a very long time, and look forward to the day I get to start driving there. Any help to get there would be greatly appreciated, even if it were directions where to seek that help myself!

Cheers,
R.D.

NOTE TO MODS: If this is more appropriate in the "Sticky" thread, feel free to attach it there. Thanks!

[TWApilot]

Ray --

I'll take a stab at your questions:

1. With your flight time, you'll go in as a direct-entry F/O, which is only offered on the freighter fleet. You can switch to the passenger fleet after 3 years.

2. You have too much flight time to enter as an S/O. You could move from F/O to Captain anywhere from 3-10 years depending on your experience (they skip over inexperienced pilots in order to offer upgrades to more experienced pilots).

3. As a direct-entry F/O, I don't think Hong Kong is an option, but you could switch to the passenger fleet based in Hong Kong after your 3 years is up. There are also passenger bases outside of Hong Kong, too.

4. I am willing to bet the fact that you interviewed before will be very, very helpful. The fact that you reapplied shows that you want the job, and they like that.

5. I don't know about having someone walk an application in.

6. I don't think so.

7. I know people who fly on both the cargo fleet and the freighter fleet out of North America, and they usually only work about 12 days per month. They fly about 2 trips per month. On the passenger fleet based in north america, you really don't do anything but fly from the USA to Hong Kong, and back. On the freighter fleet, you have some domestic trips flying between ANC and the USA.

I hope that helps a bit.

[Ray Darr]

TWApilot, thanks for the time you took to reply - I really appreciate the answers.

If anyone has anything else to add, please feel free.
Cheers.

[Penske]

Hello Ray:

I think TWApilot did a great job of answering your question. I will add my own comments which are perhaps slightly different, but only because I am simply passing on info that I was told during the process.

1. Do I have a choice of Freighter or Passenger?

From what I have seen they will slot you as a First Officer. I have spoken with recent candidates who were asked in the second interview if they were prepared to accept an S/O slot if that was offered. They had similar experience to yours (5000TT).

2) Do you think I'd have a chance for F/O, or would I enter as an S/O with my experience & age? (and what time to move to F/O and Captain is predicted based on the "now growth"?)

During one of the group briefings during the interview process, they told us that time to command would be approximately 7 years on the freighter and 9 to 10 years on the passenger side. This is based on known growth, planned retirements, and the general trend for Passenger FOs to stay on the Passenger fleet rather than pursue a Captaincy on the freighter. During my personal interview, the same numbers were repeated, but they also said that it could be significantly shorter (3 to 5 years) based on experience and performance during training and line operations.

3) Basings: a) would it be HKG (which my wife and I enjoy) or anything in North America right away?

As a Freighter FO you are being hired for bases other than Hong Kong. During the second interview you will fill out a form that lists your preference and where you are able to live. As a Canadian, I am only able to work from a North American base and I ended up being offered ANC or LAX.

If I can choose a N.Am base, is there truth to the rumored agreement between Canada and the gov't of HKG re taxes? (What is the tax-rate if living in Canada while working for CX?)

There is a tax treaty with Canada and China but not between Canada and Hong Kong. A group of Cathay pilots challenged this ruling in court and lost. My understanding is that this happened some time ago and hopefully someone else will be able to fill you in on the current situation. As for the tax-rate, you will get credit for the tax you paid to the HK govt, but you will end up paying Canadian taxes as if you were earning the money at home. (This is a very general statement and I hope others can add to this discussion)

b) If I take a basing in N.Am, what does the contract allow for housing / transportation / etc? There has been talk here that there are great differences depending on where you are based, but nothing specific mentioned that I came across(yet).

Simple answer is No. The biggest single draw to a HK basing is the housing allowance. I believe that none of the other bases come with Housing or Education allowance. There may be some exceptions to this rule such as when someone takes a Temporary Basing, but I cannot offer definitive information.

4) Does being interviewed before have any great bearing on future chances? (I thought I did fairly well then, but General Aviation time then may not have been what CX was after.)

I think it will be a help to you. They are very likely to still have your file and you will be able to speak very honestly about how disappointed you were not to be hired earlier etc.

5) Does it make a big difference to have a friend in CX walk your application in personally (even after I have submitted it)?

It can’t hurt. I listed several references on my CX application and I was asked about my relationship with them during my interviews.

6) Besides Capt X,Y,Z and HTBJ, knowing what I am flying now, plus the usual "Interview Prep" questions, is there any specific CX pool of questions available?

As I am sure you know from your research, there is no easy way to prepare for your tech interview. You simply have to do the work. There are hundreds of post about the “core” Cathay interview questions on this forum, and the Captxyz book is fairly good about preparing you for these as well as the 30 question quiz on your first interview.

I firmly believe that it is essential to know the traditional Cathay interview questions on Company history, Cathay fleet, advanced aerodynamics, airspeeds, carbon brakes, c of g, performance, climb segments, hydroplaning etc. If you get one of these “need to know” questions and bobble it, I think it would reflect poorly on your overall preparation. Other areas of essential study are windshear, cold wx ops, etops, monsoons & typhoons, long range navigation, and of course specific questions regarding the aircraft you are flying.

There is a chance you will be asked about the 747. Like any question outside the standard fare, I feel that this is your opportunity to shine. If you can answer questions about an aircraft you haven’t flown it speaks volumes about your commitment and preparation. I have spoken with pilots who went in with the attitude that they didn’t need to know about the 747 because they had never set foot on one. One guy was asked if he knew the fuel tank layout in the –400. He didn’t know and he told me that it really rattled his confidence, which of course manifested itself during the rest of the interview.

Having said all this, my opinion is that the worst mistake you could make is to prepare based on someone else’s interview gouge. The Cathay interviewers do a fantastic job of mixing up the questions and your interview WILL be different than your buddies from last week. Also, your answer to each question will be almost always be followed up with another question. This of course points to the fact that you need to know what you are talking about.

7) How much time away from either HKG or any N.Am base is typical? Is there any difference on time away depending on base or fleet?

They showed us sample rosters from one of the North America bases. I certainly would be happy with any line on the schedule. While a month to month snapshot will see people working anywhere from 8 to 15 days, they say that over the course of a few months time everyone will even out – roughly speaking – to an average of 12 or 13 days. Keep in mind that you have 6 weeks leave to use throughout the year, so overall, I think the schedule will be one of the best parts of the job.

If you are used to being senior and bidding specific trips and days off, the Cathay system is not for you. However, if you are like me, who is pretty flexible and can work with what they give me, I think it will be just fine. I was told that you get your schedule on the 16th of the month for the following month. For me, this is a huge bonus as it allows my wife more lead time to plan her schedule.

Preparing for my Cathay interview was one of the hardest things I have done in my career. Getting the news that I was successful was beyond comparison.

Good luck Ray.

[Ray Darr]

Penske, thanks very much for your response. Congrads on your good news on joining CX, too.

Good news today - I've just had the pleasure of opening a letter from CX - and it wasn't a PFO!!

Would anyone know the approximate time (nowadays) from receiving the "we have received your completed application" response, until being offered an interview slot?

Many thanks for the replies, TWApilot and Penske. If anyone else has their views on the above questions, once again please feel free to make a post here.

Cheers,
R.D.
(Hopeful-Interviewee-In-Waiting)

[TWApilot]

I sent in my application in late October of last year, and they called me in mid-January to offer an interview in late February.

The time it takes can vary, because they interview in various locations around the world. If you live in North America, for instance, they may choose to interview you but they'll wait untill they have a chance to schedule more interveiws in North America. They may have to wrap up a few months of interviewing in Europe and Australia and so forth, before scheduling the interviews in the USA or Canada again.

So, you just have to wait untill they come around to your part of the world again.

[Ray Darr]

I can travel wherever the contrails go if needed.

:D

[jtr]

You could move from F/O to Captain anywhere from 3-10 years depending on your experience (they skip over inexperienced pilots in order to offer upgrades to more experienced pilots).

Prudent to point out that this does not apply to the Pax fleet, where towing the company line (or not) is one of the larger determinants of left seat progression

[TWApilot]

Ray --

As to traveling elsewhere to interview, I don't think they give you that option. If you live in the USA, I don't think you'd be able to interview in London, for instance. They won't even advise you of an interview untill they come around to the states again.

Jtr --

That's good to know. I'll keep that in mind.

[Ray Darr]

It's getting close - officially now. I need some input from those at CX that have "been there, done that", please. Some of the replies to other questions have been CLOSE to what I am after, so bear with me on these specific issues I am tackling right now.

First issue: I am about one year away from having the total "qualifying" time to make it in as a direct entry First Officer (see my qualifications at the start of this thread, but this means I would have 2,000 hours of "Airliner"-size jet time).

I qualify now for S/O...but (the big question) do I wait one year to join as F/O, or jump at the chance for S/O now?

Other issues to ponder: If I take S/O now, I can hop across to F/O Freighter (from what I understand). This places myself and wifey back at home after living the Expat life for a few years now, which would be a nice thing (keeping in mind a stint in HKG is required eventually, and isn't something we'd mind in the least doing sometime). BUT....and this is the big but....if I join as S/O and stay frozen on the freighter for 4 years, will that be a larger financial loss in the long run than waiting one more year to join in as an F/O on the PX fleet? And will that delay my upgrade to Captain? I don't have enough information to make a decision on this critical step of the hiring process.

More to add to the mess: I am a pretty good position at a somewhat stable company now, but if I stay longer, I could request the company bypass me for an upcoming fleet transfer while I bide my time where I am at now, waiting for the F/O position at CX. If I do the fleet-transfer thing, I will be bound to them for a three-year training bond.

If I took the S/O slot (if it was offered officially, that is) it would mean leaving where I am with no bond, and on very good terms (but back to my questions above on promotion and financial loss/gain!).

My preference is to retire with CX, and either way I do not want to miss the chance to join - the dilemma is WHEN to join. If CX says "No Thanks" to me after the interviews, I'd be disappointed, of course, but the company I am at (as a second choice to CX) would be a pretty good place to stay IF my luck with CX fell through. I am in a fortunate position, that way, but CX is where I want to end up.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated from TWApilot, Penske, or anyone else out there in CX-Land.

I am hard at work studying all the usual recommended material for the interviews, and look forward to joining the company I long have sought after. Feel free to take your best qualified thought on what road I should look at taking.

This may be long and drawn out, but this isn't just for myself to ponder on - my family will be along for whatever ride I choose to take us on...we ALL thank you for the input so-far.

R.D.

[Penske]

Hello Ray:

I believe you are qualified for the F/O spots. I personally know of 2 individuals with less time (jet & PIC) than you joining as DE Freighter FOs.

In answer to your post, the best advice I can give you is to pull out ALL STOPS to get whatever job you can at Cathay. If they ask you if you have a preference - FO or SO, you can certainly be honest, but if they offer you an SO job, I would not hesitate one second in accepting it.

Here are my reasons:

1. Not many people get a second chance to join after turning them down. ( It is possible, but why chance it)
2. I believe the SO position is a great way to join Cathay, learn the ropes, and see the world. You will get world class training on world class equipment. You may not land and take off for a few years, but you will definitely feel like part of the crew and enjoy coming to work. If you are the type of person who makes the best of any situation, I think your 3 years will go by quickly. Also, there is the chance that a question about your willingness to join as an SO is just a way to check your level of comitment to joining Cathay.
3. The realities of the global surplus pilot situation could change in the near future. If you are on the sidelines "thinking" about coming to Cathay when you are more qualified for the DE FO spots, and Air Canada or United goes beyond bankrupt and into liquidation, the number of potential candidates may drown you out of contention.
4. If you truly want to end your career at Cathay, it only makes sense you get in the door as quickly as possible. What base you get, what routes you fly, or what seat you sit in is all secondary to the first step.

That's it for tonight. Good luck Ray.

[Ray Darr]

I am studying everything I can get my hands on here!

Any idea lately on the time from interview #1 to #2, then joining-course date? There is info on this that may be stale nowadays.

I am still torn with the idea of waiting for the F/O position later this year even thought the first thought is "the sooner the better" to get in.

Thanks for all the encouragement - your postings are a big help.

Cheers,
~R.D.

[flyingkiwi]

Ray Dar

Im not sure whats driving you for this FO slot over a SO one, I know pilots love taking off and landing but, i have been an So for a few years now and i just love the life style, Also financially it is putting me in a far far better position, Freighter boys dont get housing, If you buy in HK at the moment you will! set yourself up for life. I looked at the freighter slots last year aorund SARs time, it would take me a lot of years to recoup the money lost.

Anyway you only do 3-4 landings a month, go hire a C172.

Not gosple just my opinion,

[Ray Darr]

G'day Kiwi!

Thanks for the reply. My point re S/O vs F/O have nothing to do with doing take-off and landings. Tust me after landing another O-Dark:30 sector last night, I won't always miss them!! (HALF-truth, of course) :D

I know the T/O's and landings come eventually if I take one position vs the other. It's purely a financial decision and I was gathering information on which route to plan out - F/O vs S/O - that's all.

Your encouragement re S/O lifestyle is nice to hear and weighs into the factor. I also have heard first-hand from CX crew that buying in HKG now is a great way to go. Thanks for your thoughts on all of this situation.

I do like your suggestion for renting a 172. I promised the family I would take them flying someday (without a locked door between us!) and a 172 would fit the ticket for taking them - I miss them putt-putts! Maybe once I settle into a routine with the CX roster I might actually rent one for fun.

Cheers,
R.D.

(And also to the mystery poster that decided to remove his posting within the past 12 hours here - that was excellent info you had, by the way. If it was just pulled for some editing, great! The information would do wonders for those that want to join. Whoever you were, thanks.)