finalmente i sindacati sulle fcl!!!!!

[cuffio]

finalmente se ne sono accorti!!!!!!!!
(da un comunicato stampa dell'unione piloti)
[omissis...]
Se lo spirito guida dell’iniziativa è quello di equiparare l’Italia alla normativa europea avremmo preferito che prima si definissero le regole riguardanti i limiti di volo e di servizio (FTL), le normative sanitarie comuni (FCL), e soprattutto che i brevetti dei Piloti Italiani fossero riconosciuti in Europa cos' come avviene per Piloti Europei che hanno titoli riconosciuti nella comunità europea e possono perciò lavorare anche in Italia. E’ fatto noto che in Italia ci sono centinaia di piloti stranieri impiegati in compagnie italiane e purtroppo ci sono centinaia di piloti italiani disoccupati. [omissis...]
...che non possono nemmeno andare a lavorare in europa ed affrancarsi dalle nefandezze italiane, aggiungo io.

era ora che i sindacati si accorgessero di questa assurda situazione. Tengo a precisare che non ci vedrei niente di male se la cosa fosse reciproca coma avviene in tutti gli altri paesi (cioe' gli stranieri possono lavorare da loro ma anche loro possono andare a lavorare negli altri paesi), quello che e' assurdo e' che qui possono venire a lavorare tutti ma noi possiamo solo stare a guardare le schifezze che fanno nel nostro paese.

[juventus]

You can work in EU with an italian licence if the company write you a letter stating intentions to hire you and than present the letter to caa to issue jaa licence.

[GEENY]

In reality, ENAC (italian CAA) is not yet authorised to issue Jaa Lic's.Nor can one do a JAA Medical in Italy.So,the EU airlines just say:"show me the JAA Lic. and only than can we talk.."
And the italian pilots are condemned to endure the italian FTLs.italian way of recruitment and training,not to mention the management.Viva la Pizzaland!!!!

[juventus]

Enac can issue Jaa licence and they did issue some and they still issue if you have the requirements (the company letter).

[Speevy]

Ok this is one of the most mileading subjects on pprune and that's why I want to report what the CJAA (holland) wrote to me two days ago:

quoted:

Thank you for your e-mail dated 15 March 2004. Referring to your query,
I
would like to inform you that Italy is a full JAA Member State.

It is awaiting a recommendation for mutual recognition of licences
under
JAR-FCL. Having completed successful Licensing Standardisation we must
complete the Medical Standardisation prior to recommending mutual
recognition. This stage should be completed towards the end of April.

It is up to CAA UK what they decide. However, I suggest you contact
them
with the precise question you have in writing to ensure you get a full
and
accurate response.


With kind regards,

Sandra Juarez Masana
Secretary to the Licensing Division
Central JAA


This means we passed the audict for jar fcl 1 ( I am not saying we deserve it!!) and we are awaiting for jar fcl 3 (and for political reason I can tell you eventually we will get it, it's just matter of time!!)

Bye the way my JAA CPL/IR issued by Italy has been recognised by some CAAs but not from UK CAA (I cannot say they are wrong!!)

Good luck and Good flying

P.S. we didn't fail any audict, we passed the first one and we are just waiting for the next one (the two are linked)

[juventus]

that list is updated sept 2003 it is old Enac got the audit end of November.

[tarjet fixated]

SNAM you are perfectly right; Italy as a country is not fully JAR compliant and therefore has no recognition of its licences in other JAR compliant countries.
Having passed an audit is only one step towards the goal.
If fact in my company here those who hold a JAA ATPL have to pass their recurrent training with a JAR TRE because the italian TRE's cannot sign a JAR licence.
Being JAR compliant also in the medical part means italian pilots will be able to do their medicals at any JAR approved doctor...it could even be your family doctor...there you see the difficulty of pulling the power away from institutions like the so called IML and implementing the EU regs.

[Speevy]

Perfect, as I said we are mutual YET, this doesn't mean our license are not JAA!

What I am saying is that with the status quo my license has been approved by some CAAs and when we will get the so called mutual all the countries will be required to recognize it.

Things will have to change because of the political reasons that
are behind the jars.

We are part of europe and it's our right to work everywere in the european comunity, if some CAA are not recognizing our licenses it's just because they want to apply what is writen in the jars but according the international agreements signed by each countries that are part of EU they have to give us a equal treatment and they have to allow us to work!

Remember that if we have a license issued by one of the above countries each EU CAA has to recognize it after some paper work according the international agreements stated above.

That's why Italy will eventually get the full mutual because right now there are two different laws (JAR FCL and European international agreements) that are saying two diferent things and the only way to fix this problem is to include every EU country in this Mutual recognition.

Ask a lawyer, and you will see that I am right (that's what I did)

Good luck and good flying

[C-47]

Dear All,

my opinion is the JARs not a compulsory law: they are (NOT compulsory rules) designed to help various Eu countries to have one regulation only. Those who think that JARs are just as the U.S. FARs are wrong.

Perhaps someone of you heard about ISO 9001 or 9002 certificates: well, JARs are somehow the same thing. A guarantee of quality and safety all over Europe.

The JAA headquarter is there only to coordinate the standardisation process and to keep up to date the regs. If mutual recognition of licenses hasn't been recomended yet there isn't so much to do but wait that all political reasons which keeps Italy always at the last place of EU parade are over.

We are waiting to obtain a JAR compliant medical certificate. Until we will see on our medical certificate "JAR compliant" our license will not be fully JAA compliant and therefore not recomended for mutual recognition from other EU countries.

I believe that what Speevy says is partially wrong: Italy canno't pretend to be recomended for mutual recognition if it is not yet fully compliant with JARs.

I doubt that any lawyer could do anything to solve this problem.

[Speevy]

Ok, maybe somebody missunderstood (or maybe I didn't explained myself properly!!).

We are not JARS mutual (we are JARS compliant!!! exept JAR FCL 3!!!).
And yeas if you ask a lawyer, I repeat that's what I did, if one of the european CAA doesn't allow you to work in EU they are dong an unlawfull act against the international agreements signed bye each european country: if you are EU citizen you have the right to work in every EU member country if qualified (and yeas we are qualified).
The point is that JAA can't do anything about it but if you go directly and talk to each CAA and mention these agreements they have to allow you to work!!!

doubting is always good but why I should report something that I am not sure 100% in this forum???

Bye the way C-47 is right JARS are not compulsory but remember those agreements I mention, they are (you remember what happen some years ago when that French footballer went on court!?!?!)

Good luck and good flying
Speevy

P.S. I never said Italy should pretend anything, we as pilots should pretend, we are to do something, remember that we are the anly ones that really care about the situation!!!

[azdriver]

out of topic:

ma non era un forum in lingua italiana....
anyways thanks for the useful infos

see you ciao

[pinguino]

ma non era un forum in lingua italiana....

non esclusivamente!;)

ciao

[pug munter]

The ocassional lapses into English on this forum are totally enlightening!

It just reminds me of the differences between drivers in Italy and the uk on see a red traffic light. To one they are mandatory and to the other, merely advisory.

Must off for another jar of warm ale.

pip pip
pug

[C-47]

Pug Munter,

If you're looking for an "English Speaking Forum" only...well, there's plenty of them in Pprune: therefore your sad british humour is not really necessary (nor appreciated...from me at least) to help all of us on focusing the JAR-FCL problem.

If I see a red traffic light I stop my car just as you do. If someone else consider a mandatory sign as a simple advisory...well, that's not enough to say "Italy is...".

I don't know why this topic started in english instead of italian (as usual): however both languages are accepted and I believe you should respect this rule.

We already have enough problems trying to get out of JARs mess: may be you can do a little more in helping us...

God save the Queen...

[Henry VIII]

Aggiungerei anche che i cari Sudditi della Regina non hanno niente da imparare dagli abitanti del BelPaese in quanto a gestioni losche delle compagnie.
In diverse situazioni (all'estero) ho fatto la mia brava application come richiestomi... per poi accorgermi che i DOV (real British) avevano gia' assunto gli amichetti di turno fregandosene di tutto e di tutti.
Ciao
Henry

[Mascalzone78]

Out of topic

My dear pug munter you wrote the following words:
"The ocassional lapses into English on this forum are totally enlightening!

It just reminds me of the differences between drivers in Italy and the uk on see a red traffic light. To one they are mandatory and to the other, merely advisory.

Must off for another jar of warm ale.

pip pip
pug".

Well,
N.1 I am sure that our english it is much better than you italian.

N.2 you are lucky that your language is the easyest language on the earth so it is very easy to learn, unlike the other languages that is why everybody use english to comunicate. TRY TO LERN TO SPEAK RUSSIAN OR ITALIAN OR SPANISH CORRECTLY!!!!! (se l'intelligenza di un popolo si misura dalla complessità della loro lingua ... fate un po' voi).

N.3 we are free citizens of the republic of Italy and not subject of anybody.

back to themain topic of this forum


I think that the situation of our Country respect to the JAR's implementation it is all fault of the ENAC incapacity, I think that other country such as Spain or Czech Republic are not so much better than us but they probably have a better politician at their CAA. Anothe important think is thet the JAR's are not mandatory at the moment but when in few years the EASA will thake place the JAR will become law for the EU so it is much better to get the MUTUAL RECOGNITION now.

Ciao A tutti