Concorde Fever

[LowNSlow]

In a now closed thread it was mentioned that Brooklands are trying to raise one million pounds to locate a Concorde there.

Why bother? There will be one on display in Heathrow, one at Filton, one at Duxford plus a few others that have been flown to their final resting place.

If Brooklands can raise a million squid, why don't they use it to get the Wimpy airworthy, donate it to the RAF to restore the Halifax II they have in deplorable condition, restore a Hampden etc etc etc ad infinitum.

Puts on flak jacket, tin helmet and jockstrap before ducking below the parapet :suspect:

[DamienB]

To some extent I agree (especially if you could get a Wimpy airborne for less than a million!).

But I suspect Brooklands are being a bit canny, knowing that not only will the Conc be good for them in terms of visitor numbers and publicity, but more importantly the building to house it will bring a few other airframes indoors anyway. Somehow I doubt an appeal for a million quid to get any of their current outdoors collection under cover would be very glamorous and therefore get anywhere - but a pile of cash for a Concorde with all those Concorde fans willing to contribute and/or get involved with the restoration of the only one that will be publicly accessible anywhere near Heathrow... much easier.

And as always with appeals for huge amounts of moolah I bet they really only need about xx% of the figure and anything else is a bonus!

[JDK]

One factor is Concorde is one of only two instantly recognisable emotive and famous aircraft to the great British public.* As a museum, it's a irrisistable oportunity, even though many of Low's points are good ones. But bums on Brooklands seats raises revinue for other activities, so it's not a bad thing.

Cheers

*The other being R J Mitchell's famous and wonderful creation, the Supermarine -wait for it - Walrus. I thank you. (Slighly biassed ;) )

[LowNSlow]

Fair points there chaps. I suppose there is far less likelyhood of the Concordes rotting into oblivion like so many of the Vulcans which were given to all and sundry when they went out of service.

Possible exception being the one given to New York (irony anyone) and kept in the lovely salty conditions on the banks of the Hudson........

Regarding new buildings accommodating a Concorde plus other airframes, one museum is actually clearing out one hall to get Conc in! The name'll come back to me in a minute.

Nurse, where are my memory pills?

PS I'd love to see a Shagbat flying!

[JDK]

The New York Concorde is a disgrace. BA PR prats.

East Fortune are clearing out a hangar temporarily to house their Concorde, but I understand the items in the hangar into store - not dumped outside! They are aiming to get a new building to put their Conc in.

Flying Walrus. Give Dick Melton lots of money and it'll hapen. G-RNLI. It's a possibility.

[treadigraph]

JDK, is Dick still trying to flog G-RNLI?

[JDK]

:O
Bang to rights.

But seriously for a maritime nation not haveing a single historic marine aircraft airworthy is a disgrace.

You got any money? It'll be a lovely little moover, one previous owner, low mileage...

[G085H1TE]

I agree that the New York Concorde is an outrage. Seems to me that siting a valuable airframe on a bloomin' barge in the Hudson River is not the best way to preserve it.

Here are a couple of pics I took of poor old G-BOAD while in NYC a couple of weeks ago if you're interested.

http://www.hawkerhunter.com/pprune/concorde-nyc2.jpg

http://www.hawkerhunter.com/pprune/concorde-nyc1.jpg

:*

[Grandad Biggles]

I just happened to be passing Sinsheim museum on Wednesday but missed all the action.
An Air France Concorde had just been placed on the roof of the Museum directly behind the TU144.
Both are clearly visible from the Autobahn.

By April you will be able to enter both aircraft to view the inside.
I have some photos (not Damiens or MOTF quality) but certainly interesting.
Some one please tell me how to post them and I try to do it
They used 2 massive cranes to put her in position.

I plan to go back in a couple of months when I have time to view the complete exhibition.

Strange, now that she flies no more, how many are interested in her. Makes you wonder what all the objections were about restricting her flying during her lifetime

[HZ123]

Resent the BA prats remark as no other company present or past has bothered themselves about saving aircraft which is exactly what BA have done on this ocassion. Futhermore Brooklands should spend money clearing up what they have got in particular the VC 10 and the VC9. When I visisted in September both a/c were in very poor external condition.

Perhaps they could concern themselves with what they have got and getting in a marketing guru who could turn it into a positive and valuble site. I found the mix of car and plane and whole visit a hotch potch lacking direction and dedicated to the aircraft volunteers and the rich / famous members of the motor club.

What is it supposed to be ?

[LowNSlow]

HZ123 simply doanating aircraft to a museum isn't exactly ' saving aircraft' now is it.

As far as I know Dan-Air was the only company which was sufficiently concerned about it's heritage to amass a collection of every type it operated. The BA museum is where exactly?

[Tiger_mate]

The "BA Museum" is within the RAFM Cosford. Who did not get a Concorde! But do have:

Dragonfly helicopter
Viscount
Brittania
Comet
Boeing 707
Trident
VC10
BAC 1-11

All in either BA / BOAC / BEA markings and I believe maintained by BA engineers.

[JDK]

Sorry HZ,

If I put a term such as 'prat' up on the web, next to my nom de plume, it is a well judged remark. BA failed to consider the short, medium, or long term preservation of Concorde. They chose to donate with interest of max publicity (fair enough) but no other criteria, which is poor at best. They mismanaged the retirement and underestimated and failed to respond to the enormous interest this generated, and in collaboration with BAA and the Met (who are excused, as they were just trying to do their job) told people to 'stay away' from Heathrow on the last day. Defines 'pratish behaviour' for me, as they turned a major PR opportunity into a PR mess. Perhaps you'd prefer 'incompetent'?

I researched and wrote an article for a national historic news website, which was pulled after it had been used for the period required (it was used, but later suppressed) and is not in their archive, as people are scared of offending these selfsame PR folk. Some democracy.

I am of course referring to the suits who don't understand their job, not the BA crews, groundcrew and workers who try to do their jobs properly.

Guess we'll have to disagree?

Cheers
JamesK

[CamelPilot]

Tiger_Mate

I was given on good authority that Cosford is closing down. What will happen then? BA are cynical enough to say tough and the aircraft will either rot and languish elsewhere.

Sadly some of the better museums are running out of space! :eek:

[Man-on-the-fence]

I was given on good authority that Cosford is closing down

Dont know where you got that from CP. They are in the process of a big re-development which includes a new building for the Victor and Vulcan and bringing the Valiant down from Hendon.

have a look here (http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/aboutus/building.cfm)

[gordonroxburgh]

Brooklands Museum have been offered Concorde G-BBDG. BA's 8th Concorde. it should arrive from FZO in the rarly summer.

It is not a simple method of moving it and putting it on display, as the aircraft was stripped of just about every part over the past 20 years.

Only a few museums in the UK have a "workforce" capable of carrying out this massive restoration task.

What is going on at the museum will ensure that all 10 UK built Concordes will be on display to the public. Brooklands was DG's final chance of survival, There was a high probability that is would have otherwise been munched to get it out of FZO.

Concorde G-BBDG was the first production spec Concorde built in the Uk and it carried out a lot of the flying that led to certification. it also carried out test flying after entry into service, with its final flight being on Christmas eve 1981

Concorde coming to Brooklands will be truly Concorde coming home. The BAC Weybridge site built to forward and rear fuselage sections (inc Fin) for all the Concordes that were then assembled at Filton and Toulouse. With Concorde on display the museum will have a near enough complete line up of Vickers/BAC/Weybridge built aircraft. That include the Varsity, Vanguard, Vicount, VC10, 1-11 and Concorde.

For more information go to http://www.brooklandsmuseum.com and then click onto their Concorde pages (http://www.concordesst.com/brooklands/)

[treadigraph]

I was given on good authority that Cosford is closing down
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, my fault that one I think - MotF is correct, my comment was in a noisy pub: ergo, part of Cosford will be closed whilst the Cold War building is constructed. I have this on good authority... Get there before May, or be prepared to wait a year or so... but it'll be well worth it from the plans I've seen!

[Grandad Biggles]

Thanks to Vintageatco my pic's can be seen here, although the museum web site has better ones.

http://www.stevelevien.com/jpgs/sinsheim1.jpg

http://www.stevelevien.com/jpgs/sinsheim2.jpg

http://www.stevelevien.com/jpgs/sinsheim3.jpg

Tiget Moth for sale in the museum. They have to pay for the Concorde somehow, I guess.

http://www.stevelevien.com/jpgs/sinsheim4.jpg

[Jhieminga]

Although displaying a Concorde this way is quite a dramatic view, and does portray the magic of its shape and achievements just a bit better than sticking it on a barge does, I do wonder what the future will hold for this aircraft. The fact that it is stuck up on a roof does also mean that access to the airframe is next to impossible. In about 10 years time corrosion may have set in and without proper access it will not be spotted, and cannot be treated. Also I'm very curious about the ability of the gear of some of these aircraft to cope with being displayed like this. Just look at that L-39, anybody willing to guess how much stress the gear is designed to take in a a rearwards direction? Braking force will have been taken into account, but that is for short periods, doesn't involve the nose gear and is quite different from having an entire airframe hanging from it.

In the case of Concorde they probably fixed the gear legs to eliminate having to recharge the shock absorbers, but this means that any force (wind must be a factor!) is now directly transferred to the main structure, without any damping. Coupled with the non-normal loading direction (although less so than in the case of the L-39) I wouldn't be surprised to see cracking in a few years time.

Oh, and I really think they should've lowered the nose on Concorde. If this poise is meant to portray a landing or take-off attitude then at least put the nose in the right configuration.

Futhermore Brooklands should spend money clearing up what they have got in particular the VC 10 and the VC9. When I visisted in September both a/c were in very poor external condition.

I found the mix of car and plane and whole visit a hotch potch lacking direction and dedicated to the aircraft volunteers and the rich / famous members of the motor club.

With regards to the external condition of the VC10 and Vanguard, this is regrettably unavoidable with these aircraft being outside. A lot of work is put into these aircraft each year to keep corrosion and other issues under control, the fact that there is a bit of dirt on the outside is a small price to pay if the aircraft is at least structurally sound. A nice clean and shiny aircraft may look nice, but if the inside is rotting away the goal of preservation is not met! The museum does aim to get these aircraft inside in the future, but would need a large cash injection to achieve this. Perhaps the Concorde project could get this ball rolling.

Indeed the museum is a strange mixture at times, and it may look as though the cars are getting more attention than the aircraft, but let this not deceive you! The car collection has benefitted from some grants at times, and this shows. But remember that to get an aircraft to a similar state requires a lot more money, and that is without considering the fact that it is parked outside. Cars can be restored by individuals in their garages, but I cannot see someone doing this with a VC10. The museum is doing admirably considering the fact that is fully supported by volunteers and donations.

Just my two cents.

[QQ Tester]

Hi all,

Slightly away from Concorde specifically but along the same lines….

I’m only a young-ish chap (I was 13 when the Vulcan last flew) and I can’t help but feel that aviation heritage is treated with utter contempt by those that have the authority to make a difference. This opinion was formed out of the disappointment of never seeing important British aircraft like the Victor, Comet, Trident, Britannia or Vanguard in the air. It won’t be long before the 1-11 and Viscount will disappear from above too. So what can we do?

Duxford is fine and what some of the other aircraft museums do is remarkable given their pathetic financial backing but its just not quite good enough – aircraft die once they stop flying. We all what to see at least one example of each significant aircraft type kept in an airworthy condition, that’s the aim surly. How do we get there though and who will fund it, what about choosing the ‘significant’ aircraft? Well all I know is that I’d rather see Concorde in the air than a couple of new additions to the Tate gallery. Ok, I enthuse about aircraft so this should be the case but I’m also sure Concorde is closer to the hearts of the nation than, say, an extension onto the royal opera house. I fear whoever pulls the purse strings are pleasing themselves and not really looking at what the nation wants.

Can we keep older aircraft flying – yes, is it expensive – yes, is it worth it – I’d say so.

QQ

[Kolibear]

Any idea what is going to happen to the Concordecurrently parked out in the middle of the Heathrow taxiways?

And I really thing that BA have a cheek to continue to display the model Concorde at the entrance to the tunnel into Heathrow - they don't fly the aircraft anymore so shouldn't try and bask in its reflected glory.

Concorde will be remembered long after BA has disappeared.