Arena Aviation

[donmackey00]

Hi, I am currently looking for flight Schools in Australia to get my commercial license. I was looking at Arena Aviation based in Brisbane, but since I have a heard a few bad things.

Can anybody with knowledge of Arena let me know if it would be a good choice of flight school, or make any recommendations?

Thanks
Don

[Mr Whippy]

Check your pm's

[suspicious]

Don,

take it from one of the MANY un-happy victims of the sausage mill.

Take your money elsewhere. :yuk:

[swoz]

hinchinbrook air services ( bob harris' flying school) in innisfail is a good place... small, only two instructors... nice people and an aeroclub bar across the lawn...
then clamback & hennessy and whitworth aviation in sydney-bankstown have a good reputation...

[Ozflyer]

Don't believe all the knockers and gripers - chances are they are filled with sour grapes through their own ineptitude or poor performance whilst at the school, looking for someone else to carry the blame! Since 1976 Arena has been producing commercial pilots of excellent standard (more than any other flying school in Queensland). They are STILL the only flying school in Qld that was selected for cadet training by Qantas and are still respected throughout the industry as a leader in their field. Let the facts speak for themselves, and ignore the fiction.

[404 Titan]

donmackey00

One must ask themselves if I was going to spend $50000.00 + on a product, any product, do I get advise from past purchasers of this product, or do I believe the salesman that is trying to sell it to me? Do your homework and shop wisely.

[Night Watch]

Ozflyer you are a :mad: ...... I went to Arena (aka Air Training Centre), and i'm one of your so called knockers and gripers . Having got nothing less than 94% on all written exams, passing all fight tests first go and personally knowing 6 guys on my course who did the same..... I think we are qualified to comment on a :mad: organisation. Or do you still consider our ineptitude and poor performance disqualifies us from comment. (BTW all 6 of us are flying for the majors or regional turboprops)

donmackey00 my advice is the same as swoz and 404 Titan ...... do your homework and seriously consider going to a smaller outfit, one that won't take your money, treat u like :mad: and spit you out as fast as they can.


good luck :ok:

[cunningham]

Before starting training anywhere ask them if they pay their staff the award. If the answer is no, shop elsewhere.

[slice]

OZflyer - Bwahahahahahahaha!! Nice one :ok:

[Tucker]

Ozzy Ozzy Ozzyflyer me old mate.........

Facts huh? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the motto of Arena's major competitor at Archerfield? Leaders in........... Hmmm.

And I thought they (the opposition) did pay award wages.......

Anyway, off to drink another beer or 3 with my award wage pay.......

Next time sport.

[seat1A]

so.......we all have much to say but what are the so called gripes? Are Arena any worse than other flying schools out there? lets be honest here.....

[suspicious]

So Ozflyer , it would seem your "facts" are coming back to haunt you. :ouch:

donmackey, there are some lucky sausages at Arena. I know of a certain ex-flight attendent of the fairer sex that somehow managed to fly EVERY SINGLE FLIGHT, all the way to CPL, with the CP ( who only ever stepped out of his big dollar MG for tests, or to fly with his "Golden" students, however they were chosen..... :yuk: )

THEN go onto do ALL your MECIR with the deputy CP, finish with around 200TT, and SHAZAM, you will land a job with a Mt Isa company with 1500hr minimums....!! :ooh:

what a lucky lady, her outback time was spent flying lovely white folk out of the Isa. Never spent a day around our indigenous brothers....:suspect:

the sad thing for me is, I fell for your bullsh!t story about being the "preferred trainer for Qantas" and you happily relieved me of every last cent I had spent the previous 8 years working and scrimping and saving to accrue. You knew of my dreams to fly for a living and you robbed me blind with a smile on your face. Just another one of your suckers I guess.

I was then left in a position where I was told by prospective employers that "it was a real shame" I trained at Arena, despite doing exceptionally well on my exams, and passing my flight tests with ease. Guess that means I don't fit in the "ineptitude and poor performance" group.

On 2 occasions I stood up for my rights as a customer (remember that's what you are Don) and I was branded a trouble maker, and pushed to the outer (while they continued to happily keep taking my money).

So donmackey , listen to what OZFLYER says,
"Let the facts speak for themselves, and ignore the fiction".

[outback satellite]

Tucker your a toolbag!

maybe u should check out the award b4 u comment.
If you got your ass out of Brisbane maybe you would know what you where talking about.

cheers big ears
outback:D

[404 Titan]

Ozflyer

Yes we saw your profile before you conveniently changed it from Archerfield. Not very smart.

seat1A
so.......we all have much to say but what are the so called gripes?
I think a few people have put their gripes here. Maybe you should have another read.
Are Arena any worse than other flying schools out there? lets be honest here.....
The thread was asking about Arena Aviation. If you want to go and start another thread, go for it.

[seat1A]

404, maybe YOU should have another read my friend. No one had listed any 'gripes' prior to my asking, just general talk......my question was 'what are the gripes"? There was nothing posted about anything specific........

[James Taylor]

Suspicious,

finish with around 200TT, and SHAZAM, you will land a job with a Mt Isa company with 1500hr minimums....!!

Must correct you there mate, the minimums where 2000Hr TT 500 multi, due to mine contracts (WMC). I believe she was employed originaly as a token co-pilot on the pistons, and E110.

Turns out she was some what of a Trojan Horse anyway! What does A.O. do nowdays?

redcan redcan redcan redcan redcan

[Tucker]

Outback satellite,

Not sure what your getting at............Just stating facts if you re-read my post.....Maybe you can't comprehend the fact that some companies do actually reward their staff in accordance with the award. May I suggest you move your ass to a company that will treat you accordingly if you are unhappy.

PS. Dont forget your toolbag

[404 Titan]

seat1A
my question was 'what are the gripes"? There was nothing posted about anything specific........
Have a careful read of Night Watch’s post. I think if you read the post carefully you will find he was saying the whole package wasn’t up to scratch. Oh and please don’t call me “My Friend”. That is reserved to my mates of whom you aren’t one sunshine. Funny how topics like this brings out new handles. Ruffled a few feathers have we. Buy the way I have used a few of the flying schools at Archerfield over the years and wouldn’t recommend any of them. The staff that work there are generally OK but it is the people that own and run these organizations that need to take a good look at themselves. If they want return clientele and referrals then they need to lift their game and treat their clients with a little more respect, and not to take us for granted. :yuk: :mad:

[seat1A]

404, sorry I 'ruffled' your feathers! I must say that I agree with you though. The organisations at Archerfield really need to lift their game big time and change their ways dramatically. My advise to someone wanting to learn to fly for a career is to consider one of the larger organisations such as BAE in Adelaide. They have the financial backing to give their customers the best environment in which to learn. Sure it will probably cost you a great deal more but you have one chance at this...just my opinion:rolleyes:

[Poto]

James Taylor,

Would love to know what is meant by Trojan Horse in your post
If a pilot makes the grade they will swim if they don't they sink.

This is not a dig just found i interesting and want to know more!:confused:

[James Taylor]

sure poto,

The term comes from a story in Homer's Iliad, in which the Greeks give a giant wooden horse to their foes, the Trojans, ostensibly as a peace offering. But after the Trojans drag the horse inside their city walls, Greek soldiers sneak out of the horse's hollow belly and open the city gates, allowing their compatriots to pour in and capture Troy.


redcan redcan redcan redcan.

[onya]

Was told a story a while back that the "trojan Horse" is now sniffing around YBAF looking for work. Disturbing to hear that she also jeopardises the careers of ex AMI blokes by bad mouthing them to potential employers. DF knows what I'm on about. But thats cool. He's done well regardless of her slanderings.

As for Arena, all I can remember about them (been a long time since I flew thru YBAF) is that they used to have a chick instructor that was georgeous. I think her name was Dana. Babe! Her sister was a hottie too. Had I been looking for somewhere to train a few years back and she was the one that greeted me there's every chance they would have gotten my coin. Beyond that I went thru YBAF in a chieftain one arvo and needed to get some fresh weather so ventured in to ask for the use of their fax. They couldn't have been more helpful. It's horses for courses lads. I'm sure like all organisations that train pilots there are the disgruntled stories. But for each of those there is another that praises said company. Dwelling on this crap will just make you bitter and twisted.
For the guy thats wants to do some flight training (what this thread is about after all) just ask whoever it is that you are considering for a list of all the people that have trained with them in the last 12/24 months and call them individually. That'll answer any questions you have about the company. If they aren't keen to offer you the names and numbers I think you can pretty safely give them a wide berth. I did this years ago when looking for somewhere to train and it worked a treat.:E

[Hornet_26]

I have not trained at Arena, nor an I thinking about it. But I did approach them whilst I was in search of work at the end of last year and the CFI or D/CFI was very helpfull and answered a lot of questions about the QLD aviation industry that many other people had not been that helpfull at answering.

But I dont know there training so I leave that up to you! Enjoy!

[James Taylor]

DF was quite close to A so this comes as no surprise I still see it as a Trojan Horse. quite a few of the ex AMI drivers learnt this after helping her out. Mud sticks, even if its not true. What comes around goes around. Don't get bitter just move on.
Dana was very hot as I met her 95' I thought she was at QF on classics.

I recommend Bob Harris at HAS very strongly. Do not pay up front leave it in your account = interest. stay away from the sausage factories.

but now I must drink
redcan redcan redcan redcan

[drshmoo]

I trained in Sydney but came through YBAF twice in my training on navex's and every time I came through there was arena's shiny fleet of what "looked" like well maintained aircraft. Both times I went in to use the fax and both times they were more than helpfull. No sign of a that blonde otherwise I too might have stayed to empty my wallet. Now I don't really care but - I was then left in a position where I was told by prospective employers that "it was a real shame" I trained at Arena, despite doing exceptionally well on my exams, and passing my flight tests with ease. suspicious -You actually encountered people that said that. Thats seems a very blanket statement. Those people that suposedly said that show a distinct lack of further education. I have nothing to do with the aformentioned school but doesn't that sound ignorant to anyone. There are going to be good and bad people go through every flying school. Personally an arena guy took over after me on my first job and he was a very good switched on pilot(great bloke too). But as I said there are rotten and golden apples in every bunch.

As for other less sausage factory schools, Johnsons at port mac was good for me, I only did a few endorsements there but all instructors are great people and very friendly and willing to help. Mates of mine have done MECIR and CPL there too and only good reviews from them. Good nights out there too. Just dont add to the statistic of young single mothers in Port Mac cause there are thousands already.

We understand the Trojan horse story but just interested as to what the person in question did to be likened to greek soliders running out of a wooden horse, surely more to that story and we'd like to hear it

I like the Idea of asking for intructors that are paid the award. Very good idea. That is the place to start to fix up this industry. Poor grade3s getting raped all over the industry. (I never Instructed either) PAY THE AWARD

[James Taylor]

DRshmoo,

I only gave my observation, about the trojan horse as I witnessed.

Karma!

no more no less, you work it out.

redcan redcan redcan redcan

http://www.spscriptorium.com/Season3/PeteySexualHarassmentPanda.gif

[suspicious]

Hey there J.T.

According to the Arena "past students" page (where everyone is a winner that will one day make it to the airlines...!!) the Trojan Horse is working for G.A.M. Met up with an AMI driver on a charter once that really didn't have nice things to say about the horse.
Fancy that. :yuk:

Whoever asked if I was physically told "it was a real shame" that I trained at Arena, those were the exact words used, BY 2 DIFFERENT CP'S.

I don't think it's uneducated, I would say most of the Arena students come through with a very distorted sense of reality. That is the Arena way of selling it's product. Initial enquiry discovers if you have much knowledge of the industry (in my case, not) and then they heap on the LIES until you can't wait to hand over your money.

the new sausuages are then taught by other sausages that have done an in-house Grade 3. In-breeding from top to bottom.

By the way, Dana is the CP's daughter, now flies for QF. :}

[James Taylor]

Don't judge a flying school on where past students are now flying. H.A.S would have just as many or more past scholars in great airline, regional, positions ect.
That is a poor measure of how good a school is, in the end it's upto you as the individual and what you aspire to fly/achieve.


BE SURE to do your ATPL with the best ...........Nathan Higgins and A.F.T. best money you'll ever spend, make sure you get you ATPL subjects done and out of the way before you start work as a GA pilot. It is very difficult a) to get motivated to study b) get time off c) to arrange test times ect. when you are long way away on a station doing bore inspections.



redcan redcan redcan redcan

[suspicious]

great post Dr Phil.

I had EXACTLY the same probs as you. Being as I was a bit older, and worked so damn hard to get the money to fly, I was reluctant to, but did on a couple of occasions dare to ask how or why.

then just like that, the crap starts. I think I said earlier I was put on the outer, Dr Phil explained perfectly what I meant.

Probably up to 20 times I had my flights juggled around, stuffed up or cancelled, mostly without my knowledge...!!

I would turn up, on time ready to go, then "oh, sorry but......"

I was even pulled aside by the old chick who answered the phone at the time I was training and told "I better start playng the game around here, people who don't play the game don't get anywhere".

Unbelievable. :*

On the aircraft issue, Phil's right. Find out how many operators for first timers have Tobago's on line. I can tell you, there's NONE. :yuk:

[Captain Stoobing]

I did not train at Arena / ATC but I fly with many who have. They all seem to say that for training they were great. To work for , like any GA operator they have ups and downs.
I also understand they have an ex QF senior Checky doing the sim stuff for instrument ratings. I am sure that sort of experience would be invaluable and a better product than most other schools in the area could offer.

BUT........I know BOB HARRIS is excellent at his job and VERY well respected in the field.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Captain Stoobing

[Hugh Jarse]

EEE TEE wroteI know nothing of Arena but if I were you I would definitely steer away from BAE and the other big "sausage factories", you're just a number in a crowd.... I know my employer and others will not hire folks from such places.
Perhaps take a look at some of the smaller schools:

*Bob Harris in Innisfail.
*Johnston Aviation in Port Macquarie

I tried to send you a PM/email, but you choose to have that blocked. So I'll reply here:

I agree with your claim that Bob Harris and Johnston Aviation have an excellent product.

Perhaps you could enlighten us with your personal experiences with BAe? If you have in fact done any training there, then you most likely would have done ALL your training from go to whoa, and considering they are a fully integrated training college you therefore would have had little to do with the aforementioned organisations :O

Just because an organisation is large doesn't make it a "sausage factory" (as you put it).

Let's stick to the facts Eee Tee.

[Aussie FI 3A]

Did my initial IR with Aircrew Check and Training in Armidale NSW. Was good for 5 very simple reasons.

1. Armidale is a nice quiet town where you can seriously get down to studying, studying and more studying

2. All my flying was done with the ATO from start to finish, not mutual with a junior 3 or another student, therefore you learn more

3. This comapny takes a very serious approach to getting your briefs PERFECT. You will learn how to lay out a brief in a precise, concise and palatable manner. When I took my rating to another comapny in Perth and compared my briefs and lessons with other instructors, the difference was astounding.

4. They SPECIALISE in Flight Instructor Training from initial to METAP to IFTAP to senior pilot trainng, BGT theory all in house.

5. The coffee is good.



p.s. I dont work for them

[pistol night]

IT'S HORSES FOR COURSES. Did my initial training at RACWA (YPJT) very very good. Did intrument rating at Arena, got fcked up the ass a few times but they got me threw in time. Nice ppl, like i say, like any company, in any industry, u cant please everyone everytime. Have been back since and would put either of my 2 sons through their course anytime (Arena). But as i say, it is horses for courses, i have a few friends who are probably not of the same opinion.

[seat1A]

Is it true that most of the Arena fleet was 're-painted' last week? Word has it that some of their aircraft were covered in graffiti.......a disgruntled punter perhaps

[captmicka]

there go those fees again. up, up and away

[puff]

Seems to be true seat1a, found these photos on a local website yesterday, hope it's ok to post links..

Photos of graffiti 1 (http://www.aircentre.com.au/news/image/arena1.jpg)

Photos of graffiti 2 (http://www.aircentre.com.au/news/image/arena2.jpg)

Photos of graffiti 3 (http://www.aircentre.com.au/news/image/arena3.jpg)

Photos of graffiti 4 (http://www.aircentre.com.au/news/image/arena4.jpg)

[Night Watch]

I have posted on this thread that (as a former student) I wouldn't advise people to attend this school....

However this vandalism is just NOT on. Where was the security? A real shame to see the Tomahawk that I went solo in, treated with such contempt!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[captmicka]

though i tell you guys, security at ybaf is not good. alot more serious damage could be done. eg. some kid starting up a twin like a duchess, bad news.

[seat1A]

Well well well........looks as though this one done by someone who knew what they were doing. Doesnt look like the work of an unhappy customer. Having flown out of YBAF in the past I know that the security there is terrible. It involves one guy 'doing the rounds' every hour or so with a barking dog in the back of his ute. It will be interesting to see what happens.............thanks for the link.

[s/e cessna]

Having had exposure to both forms of training; ie the likes of arena & BAE Systems. In my view BAE systems stands in a league of its own; without a doubt far more superior than the crap coming out of YBAF. For one the experience level of all BAE instructors was Level 1 (When I did mine it was anyway), i don't mean to totally undermine all the newby instructors (like found at arena or any other tom, dick and harry school) but the majority of these guys wouldn't know how to fly themselves let alone teach someone how to. It's about time some real standards where set, ie instructors required to have had a certain level of exposure to the GA charter world. I know when I came out of my training I was a lot more prepared for what the aviation world threw at me, that's certainly a lot more than can be said for others I have seen.
:sad:

[Rich-Fine-Green]

s/e Cessna.

In this world - you get what you pay for;

Full time grade one instructors on the right pay have to be charged out at a higher rate.

Therefore BAE is quite a lot more expensive than other organisations.

If a student can only afford an Arena type school then they will have to accept training from Junior grade instructors and older beat up aircraft.

That's why BAE and one or two others 'stand in a league of their own'. $100 vs $50 per hour for instructors. You can't compare.

S.E.C.; Did you pay for your BAE exposure or was it part of Cathay prep.?.

I do agree with some command experiance prior to an Instructor rating.....

[s/e cessna]

R,F,G
Cx I wish, no such luck I'm affraid. Probably just like you; I have a huge debt over my head. When I made the decission of where to train i decided BAE, hey at the end of the day, you only get what you pay for. :ok:

[ContactMeNow]

Shmoo,

I agree with your comments fully. I too did my CPL NavEx flights up to YBAF and was told to pop in to Arena if I had any problems, would like to submit SAR or get the weather.

The service they gave there was great, we sat down and the lovely blonde poured me a great brew, whilst discussing the best way to fly back to sydney.

They were more than happy to go that "extra yard" and even drove some of my mates to motels around town (ALL FREE OF CHARGE), even though they FULLY knew that I was doing my flight training elsewhere and there was no way they woudl be getting any money out of me.

I was not apart of their flight training at all, so I cannot comment on that aspect of their operation, but what I can comment on is they are more than helpful to give you a hand in their office or to use their facilities. I had no more than 2-3 contact hours with them from my time in YBAF and I will recommend that if your in town make sure you pop in to Arena and ask if you can use their facilities. They will be more than happy to help you!



CMN :ok:

[Dragon 1]

No employer will give a sh1t where you learnt to fly,what you got in your exams, how much you spent, how proffessional the organisation was Blah, blah, blah. All they will care about is tat you can fly to a proffecient standard, know the rules and reg`s and what you are doing in the air. All this crap about sausage factory`s versus smaller more personal outfits is a waste of time.
If you want advice, find an instructor who is older than you.
HAs worked out in the real world of charter and airline flying who will teach you practical and valuble lessons that will stick with you right throughout your career.
And make sure they have a good attitude as much as everyone says you must.
Getting a young fresh instructor who only works in gthat job because he doesn`t want to leave his parents purse strings, bitches and whinges to you every flight about how bad his lot is and that the indusrty is crap. And then tries to impart his very extensive and intimate knowledge of what every employer will want to see, is going to turn into a very costly mistake as I found out a few years ago.

[VH-FTS]

Why's this thread popped up again?

Are Arena so desperate to get customers in the door they've decided to get a few mates to post some good things about them?

Dragon's right, it doesn't mean crap where you fly (with respect to your future career options). Fly somewhere you are treated well and taught to be a true professional.

Sure some people are happy with Arena, but look at all the stuff posted on this forum and the number of students who move to other schools. Where there's smoke there's fire.

[ContactMeNow]

Why's this thread popped up again?

Are Arena so desperate to get customers in the door they've decided to get a few mates to post some good things about them?

Dragon's right, it doesn't mean crap where you fly (with respect to your future career options). Fly somewhere you are treated well and taught to be a true professional.

Sure some people are happy with Arena, but look at all the stuff posted on this forum and the number of students who move to other schools. Where there's smoke there's fire.

As stated before I learned to fly in Sydney and I am in no way affiliated with Arena what so ever! Just the only expereince I had with them was a good one thats all.

And to comment on your "where there is smoke there is fire". Pleasename me (or all of us for the matter) ONE SINGLE ORGANISATION in aviation that has no "smoke". Might as well add to your proverbs, "where there are ashes, there was once smoke"

I see it that two parties are at fault; an organisation (being its structure, managment, etc) or its workers. Dodgey companies have both, most companies will get either one or the other bad party. Good organisations identify the problems and endevour to fix it, so please dont blame the entire organisation/company, if you had a bad dealing with ONE employee, or by poor management (but the workers are doing their best to improve, or fix it)

VH-FTS, to put it in your language, if you see smoke or a small flame, blow it out before its becomes a bushfire, then no one can stop it burning! (hope that helps)

CNM :ok:

Not here to "burn" bridges either (excuse the pun) :E

[VH-FTS]

Okay, fair point if you've never been there before and just wanted to give the :ok: for them. It's great to see people in aviation helping each other out.

I'd name you an organisation but no doubt people would jump on saying i'm supporting my own team, so I'm not going to bother. But yes, they do exist.

>>I see it that two parties are at fault; an organisation (being its structure, managment, etc) or its workers. Dodgey companies have both, most companies will get either one or the other bad party. Good organisations identify the problems and endevour to fix it, so please dont blame the entire organisation/company, if you had a bad dealing with ONE employee, or by poor management (but the workers are doing their best to improve, or fix it)<<

I'll tell you what the problem is - the 'Captain' who runs the show and his lack of respect for other operators on the airfields they run from. Not all employees follow his lead, but lets just say a few of his values flow down the chain. I've had bad dealings with both management and employees, and Arena is the only organisation I wouldn't think twice about if they went out of business (okay, maybe I'd feel sorry for a few of their instructors now out of work).

[VH-FTS]

Earthquake,

Is this Captain GB you are referring to?

http://www.arenaaviation.com.au/images/Personnel/GORDON.JPG

If you see this man kiddies, stay away!

[dude65]

McGoon
I guess you've learnt your lesson about paying up front.
I did a bit of training at Arena a couple of years back. Didn't mind the place that much. Most (not all) of the instructors were pretty good. Didn't ming GB either. Problem was, I didn't think I was getting much value for my $$$. Got bumped a couple of times and one time the instructor didn't even show up. I did see students,usually the ones trying to hook a job,getting asked to wash cars,get lunches,etc. That's not real professional. When Arena have a group of overseas students being trained,the local students seem to go to the back of the que. They forget where the bread and butter comes from while they concentrate on the cream. Business suicide if you ask me.

[dxbpilot]

Hi all ,

I have to say after having very recent experience with arena I was very dissapointed. The people and instructers are great(still mates with most of them) its just such a shame the management and testing officers are so useless.

I went and looked at another outfit up the road after putting up with arena's $hit almost a year and was flying there that afternoon, I was so impressed with the difference. I have discovered so many things that I should have been taught and am so happy that I made the desicion when I did.

Don't be fooled by the marketing, like so many of us have been. In the long run you will spend far more money at Arena than other places.

It seems that the company is really going downhill.

-Great people who work there
-Terrible management
-No comment on GB !!!

If anyone needs some more info on this PM me and I will be happy to discuss it