What's with ******?

[On Track]

Heard on the grapevine that ****** had to cancel a flight ex YSSY yesterday because the crew couldn't get one of the engines on the Metro to start.

And this just days after ****** retrenched all its local engineering staff.

Doesn't seem like a wise move.

[Howard Hughes]

OK I'll bite, what is with ******?

Anyway who the **** is ******?

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[*Lancer*]

M@ckair

But never figured out why it's been automatically censored... Woomera?

[Howard Hughes]

Thanks Lancer,

at least I know who we are talking about now.

Cheers, HH.


:ok: :ok:

[On Track]

I was indeed referring to the aforesaid Townsville-based airline, which recently took over several routes from the now defunct Horizon Airlines, and which is now operating only two of those routes.

Also curious to know why it came up as asterisks.

[bitter balance]

What a big news story, an airline cancels a flight due to an aircraft U/S. Has that ever happened before? :rolleyes:

[On Track]

Bitter Balance - you've missed the point.

[Woomera]

The auto censor of ****** and ******** precedes my appointment to the Grand Order of Woomeri. However if is understandable due to the "Aussie Tall Poppy Syndrome" that often pervades these forums.

There is a penchants in some quarters for anonymous “operator and airline bashing” on PPRuNe. Some operators/airlines get tired of the continual often unjustified bashing on PPRuNe and express their displeasure to Danny. They occasionally get their lawyers to write Danny terse letters about damages ... and money …..
http://www.gifs.net/animate/moneyflipp.gif
Which he doesn't like. At all! :mad:

If you doubt my word, go count the number of threads that thank operators and airlines for employing us all and the service they provide, versus the “knocking” threads……..

So, to avoid those terse letters I mentioned, a number of names and words are auto censored to protect Danny’s good disposition.

As mentioned above, is there something unusual about an airline cancelling a service due to an aircraft being unserviceable? :confused:

Woomera

That Woomera got it right in one.

is there something unusual about an airline cancelling a service due to an aircraft being unserviceable?

Metro has Garretts.

Garretts are great engines.

Garretts beat the living daylights out of the equally great but simpler PT6s for sfc, profile drag/cross section, blah blah.

But

Garretts are fixed shaft engines.

Garretts have fairly sophisticated FCUs

both ncessary to produce the abovementioned efficiencies.

50Kg or so of rotating ironmongery plus the prop and gear box to turn over sometimes finds out starter gennies on the way out, they don't last forever, or if it was a battery start, the same.

Maybe the turn around time was tight and they hadn't had a chance to motor em.

Who knows, they are very reliable engines, but it's called aviation and;

Like Queensland :)

Beautiful one day, your worst nightmare the next:uhoh:

:E

This Woomera

Oh and BTW a useless bit of information I picked up somewhere is that in the case of the Garrett a pretty efficient engine, it is necessary to for the engine (turbines) to absorb something like 2000 gross HP to get a nett 700HP or so out of the prop.
The other 1300 HP goes to turn it over (just shy of 40,000 rpm) and is largely absorbed by the compressor at 100% RPM zero thrust.
It's one of the reasons you dont want to hang around on the ground or at low alititude.


That Woomera

I object to your totally untrue statement "Garretts beat the living daylights out of the equally great but simpler PT6s......."

One is "50Kg or so of rotating ironmongery...", the other is a flying Swiss watch!

"Garretts have fairly sophisticated FCUs.." - some FCU's are even an electrical nightmare looking for a place to fail, eh Woomera! You'd know!

And incidentally to clarify your last statement, a Pratt's Field Engineer told me many years ago that around four fifths (80%) of the energy into a turbine engine is used to turn the compressor and converted to noise and heat. In effect, a PT6A-42 at 850 HP at the prop effectively generates around 4,000 HP at the gas generator.

Or something like that!

How many of us Woomeri? Dunno - about five or six at last count. Every time we run short of Woomeri, Danny visits the Retired Aviator's Home, grabs a few drunkards in their wheel chairs, does a quick endorsement and lets us loose in this forum!

http://images.animfactory.com/animations/objects/miscellaneous/wheelchair_rolling_md_wht.gif

We need a Woomera relay team to keep on top of the Dunnunda Forums! :p

Except That Woomeri above. Think Danny found him in the gutter outside!!! :}

This Woomera

[*Lancer*]

Just how many of you are there!?

Now they're all talking to themselves :p

[Woomera]

This This Woomera

eh eh eh gotcha:E

a Pratt's Field Engineer told me many years ago that around four fifths (80%) of the energy into a turbine engine is used to turn the compressor and converted to noise and heat. In effect, a PT6A-42 at 850 HP at the prop effectively generates around 4,000 HP at the gas generator.

He got that right, they need twice the gross HP to produce around the same nett as the Garrett. :p

The extra 150 HP is needed to drag that back to front engine around with those funny automatic engine cowl stainers sticking out the sides and to take care of the energy losses involved incurred by the time they have turned the gas path inside out about 30 times before they let it near the prop.:uhoh:

Gutter?
Dear boy I'll have you know it is a very exclusive gutter, around the back of one of the best wine bars in town.
It's amazing how much those sommelier chappies leave in the bottle when they go through that decanting fol de rol.
Used to be able to afford the real stuff once but then I had to overhaul one of those FCU thingummies.
Fair takes the breath away it does.:{

Have to go now they are throwing out the garbage, I wonder if there's any of that First Cru Burgundy that chap was drinking last night coming out.:ok:

[Sheep Guts]

Well Ive never flown a Garret all my time is the PT6. But I believe the Garret has better reverse. Not as much lag as the PT6 which we know is ok in reverse. Of course you hav less lag when the engine is rigged up with a Hi and Low idle like in King Air or B1900, ie high idle setting reduces part of that lag. The Twotter of course doesnt have this.
Would this difference between PT6 AND gARRET,be due to the different design. Less loss of energy in a direct drive system. I didnt do mechanical Engineering but me thinks so.

I am a PT6 supporter but comments a quantified never flying Garrets.

Woomera 1 and Woomera 2 are you sure evrything is going fine between you 2?


Sheep:O


Woomera 2

Here's a man of class - another Pratt & Whitney PT6 fan!!! :p

Just wait until Woomeri 3, 4, 5 & 6 sober up and enter the fray - Woomera 3 is definately on my PT6 team (and not bad low level in a Baron, either! :} )

Woomera 1

[Woomera]

Sheep Guts

Dear Boy, this is The Woomera the Grand Fomage so to speak.

If you have never flown a Garrett,............. well what can I say, it's a bit like sex unless you have had it, you really dont' know. :D :cool:

What is this "lag",......... the Garrett runs at a constant speed, instant forward or backward is but a mere a power lever movement away. :p
None of this counting slowly to a 100, whilst waiting for the old girl to gather up her skirts and spool up.

Things are just fine between W1 and W2 as long as he keeps passing the dregs out the back to my gutter. :)
I sometimes wonder at his choice of wines though, definitely scratchy with a tendency towards quantity rather than quality.

Still us Mods can't be choosy on the wages that the God of PPRuNe deigns to scatter amongst us unworthies.:{

[Night Watch]

I currently fly both a Garrett and a PT6 (metro & B1900), and all i have to say is.......... it's like driving a Falcon and Commodore, basically the same car with a few minor differences. :ok:

[onya]

On Track,
I'll bite. What point exactly are you trying so desperately to make?
Onya :suspect:

[Howard Hughes]

So what other qualifications does one need to become a member of the much lauded woomeri team?

I mean I am old, often drunk and I own a dictionary!

Do I qualify?

By the way what was this post about anyway?

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[Woomera]

And this Woomera who was here before the other, left and has returned, can confirm that both, Jetcr@ft and M@cair, due to their close commercial tie up ;) became autocensored due to the propensity of PPRuNe folk to use the anonymity of the forum to say things they'd not take responsbility for.

As to PT6 v Garrett's, I've not had the pleasure of flying a Garrett, though have flown with one. As it has happened all my turbine time has been in air coupled engines. They seem to work as there have only been 2 failures in about 8000 hrs.

Woomera # 8

[amos2]

uh!!...what can I say!...

Woomera/Woomeri...whoever/whatever they/that is, whoever/whomever they/that are/is...

err...o' stuff it! back to the telly!

Can't we just go back to the good old days with the Kelly gang? :p

[On Track]

Onya - merely observing that if you sack all your engineering staff, you've got noone to fix things when they fail.

And if you've got no replacement aircraft available, you're stuffed.

I believe that on the night in question the pax had to stay at a nearby hotel.

Now that may not seem like a big deal, but I understand one of the reasons that ******'s predecessor crashed was its failure to provide reliable on-time services.

[bitter balance]

On Track - I wonder if they thought of that, are you available as a consultant? Maybe the company has engineering support from a contract service provider? The aircraft in question apparently had a problem (component failure) that would ground any Metro in the world, nothing to do with engineering.

As I said - big news story. :rolleyes:

[Woomera]

I reckon Garretts sound like dog whistles and PT6's do not.

Woomera #8, I don't reckon Garrett sounds like a dog whistle. Actually I reckon he's a great bloke:} But I've never flown with him :D

Watch out Amos or I'll send Ned & Jack over to your place. your neighbours will hate them ;)

Sheep Guts, that other Woomera that loves Garretts (not Garrett)only does so because you can feed them METHANOL and he has an affinity for things containing "spirits" :ok:

The good thing about Pratts is you don't have to jump out and spin the props like dervishes to avoid bowing the shafts :E

I reckon Pratts ingest birds better than Garretts. I once took an eagle straight down the hatch with a P&W with little damage, but a fruit bat totalled the Garrett.

Fruit bats and Garretts........

Woomera #9 (Eastern States).

[Arbey8]

woomera did you just refer to yourself in the 4th person? outarageous!