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RW-1
14th Sep 2001, 17:20
For the first time in history, the changing of the guard yesterday at Buckingham Palace included the US National Anthem and a two minute period of silence for those lost on Tuesday in NYC and DC. It was attended by Royalty and the US Ambassador.

I saw the clip last night. It was wonderful to see, and the cheering and flag waving there.

I am a fairly stoic individual, but that moved me to tears last night watching that.

Thank you all, we will remember your support in this time of need.

ExSimGuy
15th Sep 2001, 20:44
RW-1,

We take the rise out of you, slag you off, call you "Septics", but at heart we really like you quite a lot :)

Seriously, I was very pleased about the Anthem played, as well as impressed by the crowds of whom some sang, the rest of whom obviously didn't know the words but hummed along with the tune.

We do have a "special relationship". Unlike our nearest neighbours you speak our language (though you managed to change it a bit :P )

Britain stands with the USA for all the vlues that we both treasure.

tony draper
15th Sep 2001, 23:06
Always struck me that The Star Spangled Banner, is one of the few decent national anthems there are, can be genuinly moving when heard in the right circumstances.
I have never found ours particularly inspiring,and the words are very belligerant and none pc, must make the PC luvies squirm a bit.
Perhaps its time we changed it for something like Land of Hope or Elgar.
Never understood why you Australians didn't pick Waltzing Matilda,that would have been a peachy national anthem.
Incidently, F Scott Key may have written the words, but the tune you pinched from us. ;)

Smoketoomuch
16th Sep 2001, 01:40
RW: I saw the clip, and yes, it was very moving. As has been said, though us Brits enjoy nothing more than telling you colonials where you went wrong, its nothing more than harmless banter, there are a few idiots who say otherwise and they all seem to have internet access, but when it comes to the crunch we stand together.

National anthems? Well perhaps we should resurrect these verses;

O Lord our God arise,
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall;
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
Oh, save us all!

From the assassin's blow,
O'er her thine arm extend,
For Britain's sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!

Eboy
16th Sep 2001, 02:27
I have a few friends in the business in D.C. (They know my identity and are amused that I am more active here than they who are in the industry.) They tell me that they and many of their colleagues look at these messages when they can and it helps a lot. They are too shy to subscribe and say so (I'm working on that), so I'll tell you. One note of support reverberates among many people for many days.

Loki
16th Sep 2001, 03:15
Such a small and inexpensive gesture, but it seems to have touched the hearts of many. It was carried out in that typically understated way we have of doing things, and was all the better for it.

Also saw the last night of the proms tonight.I really did miss "Land of Hope and Glory" and "Rule Britannia" but Beethovens 9th was rather good.

2 sheds
16th Sep 2001, 04:38
Concur fully with all the above. It struck me very forcefully that the reaction to the terrible events of last Tuesday - the changing of the guard, the service in St Paul's, etc - was so much more tasteful than the reaction to Princess Di's death.
Yes, our American friends do have a far better anthem than our own! Also, their flag does not need a "this way up" label.
I wonder who was responsible for raising the Union Flag, at half-mast but inverted, on some building near St Paul's?

tony draper
16th Sep 2001, 05:13
Another snippet, America had the Grand Union Flag origionaly, same striped banner as now but with the Union Jack where the stars are now,.
Not many people know that. ;)

Davaar
16th Sep 2001, 05:35
"O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?"

Now there is an aspiration and a noble national anthem. I have doubts about others that find favour:

Smoketoomuch

When you are reviving your favourite verses of “God Save the Queen”, why not bring back verse 4 as well?:
Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the king.
The song was first sung at Covent Garden to celebrate the Jacobite retreat from, as I recall, Derby, and the resultant relief of the Hanoverians. It’s not that I care much for the Jacobites or the Hanoverians, but the song does rather go beyond narrow dynastic limits, might you not agree? There are national overtones that may be offensive to some. Read the text carefully and see if you can find any.

Tony Draper and Loki, let’s turn to “Land of Hope and Glory”:

Thine Empire shall be strong, etc. Uhuh! You bet.

A pride that dares, and heeds not praise,
A stern and silent pride:
Not that false joy that dreams content
With what our sires have won;
The blood a hero sire hath spent
Still nerves a hero son.

In other words, you have a lot that you took from someone else, and you want still more. In fact the song makes that explicit.

Wider still and wider
Shall thy bounds be set;
God, who made thee mighty,
Make thee mightier yet.

At whose expense do you see this expansionist philosophy being effected?

tony draper
16th Sep 2001, 05:51
Heh heh, Well the PC mafia lovies have relegated poor Kipling to the dustbin because of his what they see as facist works.
Do you mean that some of the national anthem already has classed as double plus ungood and purged?.
Didn't know that Mr D.

Davaar
16th Sep 2001, 06:32
With respect, Tony, the guilty man was A C Benson, not Kipling. In fact, when I was a kiddiewinkle in the village school in Scotland circa 1943 we learned by heart (Yes, we did a lot of that in those days) Kipling’s words that I would offer as a National Anthem (P.S. I am happy to report that Miss Sneddon as was, who dinned it into us those years ago, was alive and well enough in 2000 to visit Vermont and Canada "to see the autumn colours"):

Land of our Birth, we pledge to thee
Our love and toil in the years to be;
When we are grown and take our place
As men and women with our race.

Father in Heaven who lovest all,
Oh, help Thy children when they call;
That they may build from age to age
An undefiled heritage.

Teach us to bear the yoke in youth,
With steadfastness and careful truth;
That, in our time, Thy Grace may give
The Truth by which the nations live.

Teach us to rule ourselves alway,
Controlled and cleanly night and day;
That we may bring, if need arise,
No maimed or worthless sacrifice.

Teach us to look in all our ends
On Thee for judge, and not our friends;
That we, with Thee, may walk uncowed
By fear or favour of the crowd.

Teach us the Strength that cannot seek,
By deed or thought to hurt the weak;
That, under Thee, we may possess
Man’s strength to comfort man’s distress.

Teach us Delight in simple things,
And Mirth that has no bitter springs;
Forgiveness free of evil done,
And love to all men ’neath the sun!

Land of our Birth, our faith, our pride,
For whose dear sake our fathers died;
Oh, Motherland, we pledge to thee
Head, heart, and hand through the years to be!

[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: Davaar ]

[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: Davaar ]

tony draper
16th Sep 2001, 06:40
I just meant Kiplings works have been banished from shools and Such Mr D,I didn't mean he wote the words to the anthem.
I believe there used to be a civil service department, that put together things like national anthems, coinage, flags ect, for emergent nations, don't suppose thats still operating, but hell, being the civil service it probably is, they just won't have had ny work across their desks for the last thirty years or so. ;)

PS, I think it should be a piece of music, no words, they date to quick,something that clearly defines a national characteristc, that is used as a national anthem.
Suggestions?.

Personnely I like Nimrod, but I have a sneaky feeling someone is already using it.

[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

HugMonster
16th Sep 2001, 07:02
What about Jupiter?

Loki
16th Sep 2001, 12:56
Some of our favourite songs may be non PC to a glorious extent, but they inspire us and unify us in this sort of time. I am not a Scot, but "Flower of Scotland" I find stirring despite its anti English sentiment....I am just about intelligent enough not to be offended.

tony draper
16th Sep 2001, 14:24
Yeh, I agree, Flower of Scotland does the biz.
In some ways the Scots are more fortunate,as they have a more clearly defined cultural identity, don't think we English quite know who we are,but whatever it is in a few decades whatever hints we had will be gone.
I've said it before multi ethnicity I have no problem with,muti culturalism, I see no benifit from whatsoever except future divisions.
I am lucky in my home town you can see black englishmen, brown englishmen, yellow englishmen and jewish englishmen walking around the street,for some reason in this area people seem to be more ready to abandon their cultural alligiences, this helps a lot.
This is not the case in every english town.
This is the subject that dare not speak its name, we are not allowed to comment, and we won't be until its to late.

[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

Davaar
16th Sep 2001, 14:49
Perhaps we’re on to something. Is there not a need for a generic International Anthem in which we, as they say, let it all hang out? To capture the true spirit of international comity, it would in essence be ill-natured. There would have to be a good tune, of course, and that in itself could be a fertile source of bickering and backbiting. A verse that really, truly, profoundly did nark someone else would earn extra points. As someone said of a former thread, it would probably end in tears. If it did, I should then deny all knowledge of it and blame it on HugMonster, as he richly deserves. How many extra points, of course, would be another source of quarrel. To illustrate the principle, we might have the words of Deutschland ueber Alles to the tune of La Marseilleise. If that requires distortion of metre or rhyme, so much the better. Europe itself might provide an initial challenge of adequate but limited scope.

Just playing with the idea, and in an atypical spirit of transatlantic generosity that will not be repeated, I take the tune of The Battle Hymn of the Republic:

They started with the Inner Six and with the Outer Seven,
Or Seven and Six, whichever, we all know the scheme was driven
By Kr**ts, and Fr*gs, and Benelux unholy and unshriven
All out to get the Brits.

Glory! Glory! We shall shaft them!
Glory! Glory! We shall shaft them!
Glory! Glory! We shall shaft them!
Those European dregs.

The Fr*gs of course detest the Kr**ts and think they are a shower,
Of iron fisted hooligans moved by the lust for power.
They’re right. But still the Prussians wrapped them up in half an hour,
In the Franco-Prussian war.

[Refrain as above, unfairly giving regular cadence of favouritism to the Brits; but when has unfair advantage ever troubled the Brits, so long as it was in their favour?]

The Bourbons built Versailles and set new architecture humming,
But their civilisation lacked a lot, especially the plumbing;
And centuries later still the odour tells you when you’re coming,
Close to a Fr*g bog.

Refrain.

The *ngl*sh have the notion that they own the sceptr’d plot
Regardless of the feelings of the Paddy, Welsh and Scot.
That’s tough, says Johnny Bull, but what I have is what I’ve got,
And I’ll keep it while I can.

Refrain.

The Sc*ts perfervidum ingenium** flashes out just like a comet;
At Hogmanay he celebrates with whisky, beer, and vomit.
They used to call him Sandy and he used to wear a bonnet.
He cannae staun’ the Brits.

** Blame Agricola, not me.

Refrain.

Where are Tricky Woo, Tony Draper, Loki, Winston Smith, et al?

[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: Davaar ]

HugMonster
16th Sep 2001, 15:47
Davaar, I am only sorry that Flanders and Swann's song "A Song of Patriotic Prejudice" doesn't include the Candians!

To quote just a little...

"The English, the English, the English are best,
So up with the English and down with the rest.

And travelling further, one cannot say much
For the French or the Spaniards, the Danish and Dutch
The Germans are German, the Russians are red,
And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed...

The English are noble, the English are good,
and handsome and honest and misunderstood..."

tony draper
16th Sep 2001, 16:12
The sound of ten thousand luvies choking on their herbal tea echoe's throughout the land.
Heh heh, I a'm speechless with admiration at your political incorrectness gentlemen. ;) :eek:

[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

Send Clowns
17th Sep 2001, 02:34
Back to the original topic, I was moved again to tears on Saturday to hear the Star-Spangled Banner and Adaggio for Strings played in the Last Night of the Proms, a night with none of the usual triumphalism of Pomp and Circumstance. There can be no triumph ;( .

Moved also to see large numbers of flags flying half-mast, Union Flags, US Flags, even corporate flags, anything flying on a pole expressing grief and solidarity.

RW-1
17th Sep 2001, 21:44
Of course on the humourous side of my post, it was strange not to hear anyone yell "Play Ball" after it had concluded. . .

(One has to retain one's sense of humour!)

MightyGem
18th Sep 2001, 09:17
Tony, remembering of course that the Union Flag(Jack) is alive and well in the USA as forming part of the State flag of Hawii.

RATBOY
18th Sep 2001, 22:52
There are several states with parts of the union jack in them, I believe. But the one I always liked best was New Hampshire, they just have a flag with "LIVE FREE OR DIE" on it. No state income tax either.

Why Waltzing Matilda wasn't picked by Australians I don't know...tune started off as a recruiting song for Marlborogh (sp) Something about"... dear old streets of Rochester...bound for the war in the low countries...." Sure beats the stupid "Be all you can be" jingle. Watchthe Marines do it right....they are "Looking for a few good men" and the best sendup of that I ever saw was a "Ghengis Chan is looking for few good barbarians" poster, but it's okay because I got it from a Marine.

(gets off soapbox, quietly exits stage right, turns off lights)

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