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View Full Version : You should know your geography, So be very worried !


Bailed Out
14th Sep 2001, 04:31
I hope you guy’s know your geography (or else get another job), if you then apply that to recent news and events it can be interpreted as very serious indeed.

America are know talking of vengeance and retribution and I for one agree with this sentiment

Now add this up: -

Pakistan under huge pressure to conform by closing their borders with Afghanistan.

Turkey has conceded to allow the US and its allies to use air bases.

Former Soviet Republic backing the US.

Mediterranean and Algeria covered by the Europeans via NATO.

Now put a couple of US carrier groups in the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman.

What have you got? A very tight circle.

Who’s in it?

African desert, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Saudi, Qatar, UAE, Yemen, Oman, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan.

All the largest terrorist trouble hot spots in recent history surrounded by The US and its Allies in one go.

I wouldn’t be in the Middle East at the moment, even for my own mother (she would understand)

It really could be this bad !

“America will use all available military resources” and “Strike wherever necessary”

Bye Bye Islam

Rollingthunder
14th Sep 2001, 04:57
sans comment:

THURSDAY SEPTEMBER 13 2001.
US retaliation will be 'sustained'.

America will respond to the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington with a sustained military campaign, Paul Wolfowitz, the Deputy Defence Secretary, said today.

"It's going to unfold over time," he said. "It will be a campaign, not a single action. And we're going to keep after these people and the people who support them until this stops."

Mr Wolfowitz said part of the $20 billion (13.6 billion) in emergency funds that Congress has provided will be used to strengthen the United States's military readiness. He did not specify how much this would be, nor did he discuss specific military options. Another portion of the funds would pay for air patrols that have been flying over major American cities since the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon.

Mr Wolfowitz praised Congress for uniting to support emergency funds for the military. "I think it's a message to friends and adversaries alike that this is a completely different ballgame that we're in now," he said. He said the anti-terrorism campaign the President is prepared to direct will not be limited to military force.
"One has to say it's not just simply a matter of capturing people and holding them accountable, but removing the sanctuaries,
removing the support systems, ending states who sponsor terrorism," he said.

The Times

[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: Rollingthunder ]

VTSP
14th Sep 2001, 04:59
I think you'll find that since Turkey is a member of NATO, it conceded to allow the USA and it's allies to be based there for many years already.

But I think we all know what you mean.

Cyclic Hotline
14th Sep 2001, 05:19
The largest Muslim nation in the world, is Indonesia, somewhat outside the "circle".

There are many Muslim's that are outside the targeted areas. There are many Muslim nations that are allies and part of the civilised world.

This battle is against terrorism, not Islam. It is irrational and also irresponsible to blame the troubles of the world on any particular religion or race. It is also wholly unfair to normal Muslims, to group them together as an insidious group with a perchant for terrorism.

There are terrorists of all persuasion, worldwide. Many are politically, economically or financially motivated. I would suggest that the majority are not Muslim.

The last organised group that attempted the complete and total obliteratoin of a single religious group (and I know there have been many more smaller attempts since) was the Nazi's.

I believe the modern civilised world is so far beyond comparison with that group, that any discussion of this nature is beyond consideration.

Instead, this is an opportunity to tackle the threat of terrorism head-on, worldwide, with a unified intent.

There are many nations who may be pushed into dealing with their own internal policies or commitment to terrorism simply because the threat of "taking on the world" is simply incomprehensible.

Bailed Out
14th Sep 2001, 05:31
Cyclic Hotline

“There are many Muslim nations that are allies and part of the civilised world”

But perhaps not enough or maybe the fundamentalists control them to such an extent that the oppressed need help?

B747wideboy
14th Sep 2001, 05:48
Bailed Out, let's not equate Islam with fundamentalism. The first is a religion, the second a disease. Virtually every religion has at some stage been used by fundamentalists to justify some atrocity through history.

However I agree that the time has come to crush the supporters and perpetrators of terrorist atrocities. The US and NATO have the technical ability to be very precise in the way they wage war. In one attack they could destroy not just the terrorists but the governments that support them. Once that is done we should wait to see who fills the void where those governments were and see if they are willing to deal with the rest of the world in a civilised manner and if not then lets repeat the exercise until the reasonable people are all thats left.

Bailed Out
14th Sep 2001, 05:58
Also

“the Nazi's” were partially military and were suppressed with the help of my immediate family.


“There are terrorists of all persuasion, worldwide. Many are politically, economically or financially motivated. I would suggest that the majority are not Muslim.”

So who are the majority?

It will be very interesting to see how many of the “Muslim nations” will be at the fore of this hopeful terrorist hunt, and I do mean HOPE and HUNT.

Ultimately what do you gain by going in and increasing the kill count? (a question to myself)

You get rid of those who would kill on a whim or “belief” and for no other reason that they have no way of improving thier own “lot” so choose to destroy everyone else’s

A challenge: - Anyone who feels my right to self expression or my right to free speech is beyond their tolerance: - say so and I’ll meet you anywhere where we can resolve it on equal terms, I.E. America or North west Europe.

Don’t the rest wish they could say that!

Ha!

B747wideboy
14th Sep 2001, 06:15
Let's talk specifically about the Taliban. This is an example of a shower of lunatic fundamentalists holding their country to ransom.

The human rights of the normal afghani people, and the women in particular, have been systematically degraded since the Taliban took control of the country. There are foreign nationals currently held in Taliban prisons on charges of attempting to convert people to christianity. The total destruction of this goverment would constitute a humanitarian gesture.

As for Bin Laden, he should be taken alive. I'd like to see him drown in pig's blood.

Bailed Out
14th Sep 2001, 06:36
you think that's bad? did you see what happened in the name of suspected (but when confirmed)"Islam" on the 11/09?


Bin Laden?

you think that's bad?

Only quoting facts!

the wait is not for "their" benefit...

My airborne bomb is bigger than anything the've used or even could imagine but we'll be dead-legging, that's the only way we go

reminds me of that film.. but you couldn't get your legs round this mother!!!

heloplt
14th Sep 2001, 06:50
Georgie Cohan was wise beyond his years when he wrote a short but catchy tune during World War I (The war to end all wars....nice thought!)....just wish I had an Arabic translation for distribution by VOA, BBC, and the USAF Psyops aircraft....

"Over There, Over There
Send the word, send the word, Over There
That the Yanks are coming, the Yanks are coming
So prepare, Say a prayer
Send the word, send the word to beware
We'll be over, we're coming over
and we won't be back till its's over, There!"

Wish I could be in the front seat of the lead Apache on the first raid on the first night....with all the rockets, missiles, and cannon ammo I could shoot!

Bailed Out
14th Sep 2001, 07:57
Heloplt

Psyops?

This is real!

Hands up who finished a sector and fell over because of cemtrails?

P*sses me off to see weirdoes grab onto these sensitive times.

Golden Monkey
14th Sep 2001, 12:58
Heloplt, from your seat in your lead Apache, whom exactly are you planning on killing? The terrorist enemy has no tanks for your Hellfire missiles; no command bunkers for your rockets. Is your cannon for women with veils and men with beards? Would your fleet of gunships have been any use against Timothy McVeigh?

Capt PPRuNe
14th Sep 2001, 17:47
As has been pointed out, the ring spoken of is irrelevant to Islam. We must defferentiate between normal, decent human beings who are Muslims and are as abhorred as the rest of by the terrorists who commited the mass murders on Tuesday and the fundamentalists who twist their teachings into sick reasons and excuses. Our anger and any attacks must be against the individuals who indoctrinate the beliefs that this kind of terrorism is justified in any way for any cause. Those people and the their backers and the leaders who give them shelter and backing are the one who must be taken care of.

Be aware though that these cowards will say one thing for the camera to try and deflect their two faced philosophies but hopefully our leaders with their intelligence gathering services will now have the resources to gather up the evidence against them and in good time the retribution will be inflicted on those responsible.

We must be patient and not descend to the depths of depravity that the perpetrators and the backers of the murders on Tuessday sank to. We are dealing with an insidious enemy who twist their religious teachings. It is these sub-humans we need to deal. The vast majority of Muslims cannot be held responsible for these atrocities and we must not let the few people who are unable to contain their emotions to preach blanket hatred.

RW-1
14th Sep 2001, 19:56
I have no issues with Islam.

I am appalled at the degree of guilt by association that has occurred in my country since Tuesday.

The targets are those who commit such acts, and those who harbor them, I am not concerned with the entire religious sect.

Imagine those who fled the Afgan capitl Tues Night when Rebels, not the US set off some bombs.

The terrorists should be scared as we come from them, but not the rest of the Islamic community. Just my opinion, I wish it were shared by more.

Remember, most likely the "average Muslim/Islamic guy on the street" is most liklely appaled by the actions of these people as well as we are. I know this from conversations I had during Desert Strom when in the middle east with different people, and that while they knew I was Jewish too.

Paterbrat
15th Sep 2001, 19:41
When Islamic fundamentalists (extremeists) took over the Grand Mosque in Mecca it was ordinary pilgims who died, probably thousands, before the Mosque was cleared. The extremists and fanatics are everybody's enemy. They are are small but deadly minority, a poison in society and it is they who should be rooted out and destroyed, they are in nearly every country and go by many names, they are the nihilists and agents of chaos, and it will take worldwide co-operation to get them all contained and stamped out. The only language they speak and understand is death.

ExSimGuy
15th Sep 2001, 20:21
The Captain, RW-1, and Peterbrat are with the important point; Islam specificaly forbids the murder of innocents.

I speak as a Christian who lives among Muslims and I know many, many, good Muslims who I am sure, certain, that these people (who I have not seen this week) will abhor what was, perhaps, done "in the name of Islam" (viz "in the name of God")

The people who did this, if they do indeed turn out to be those who claimed to be Muslim, are committing sacrelige to their own faith. Timothy McVea (sp?) may have said, if asked, that he was a Christian, but does anyone really think that he was following his Christian beliefs?

My future son-in-law is currently patrolling the streets on PHL in his blue/white car having been equiped with riot equipment to protect Arabs against misguided people who associate the average Arab/Muslim with the people who committed these horrendous acts last Tuesday.

Balthazar
15th Sep 2001, 20:47
I also live amoung many muslim's, a lot of who are my friends.

These cowards who are responsible for tuesday call themselves muslims because it is convenient, not because it is true.

It's like saying Timothy McVeigh comitted his cowardly acts in the name of christianity.

See through the simplistic bull$hit.

Nick Figaretto
15th Sep 2001, 21:17
Also keep in mind that Taliban is not elected by the Afghan people. They have taken the power by force. To let "all hell break loose" on the Afghan people, or on all Islamic people for that matter, would be contradictory to all the principles so highly spoken of by all of us in the "western world".

By using the principles of the terrorists, we become terrorists ourselves. :(

Nick.

Golden Monkey
15th Sep 2001, 22:38
Agreed Nick. I hope that this extended period of planning that appears to be taking place, and no small measure of talk of an "intelligent" and highly focused war against the terrorists is indicative of a meaningful response, and not blanket punishment of far away civilian populations. Many of whom, as you say, cannot be held responsible for the actions of their leaders.

American security estimates seem to indicate the Bin Laden network (if, indeed, they are found accountable - and the smart money is on sooner rather than later) may only comprise 3,000 members spread over as many as 34 nations, undoubtedly including many in the Western world. Determining a military policy that strikes proportionally at sources of terrorism - wherever they may be - without seemingly kicking off a jihad against innocent Islamic populations is no doubt providing some major headaches for the military planners.

The current rhetoric of the Taleban in Afghanistan seems to indicate they are trying the same strategy as Saddam before the Gulf War - namely claiming that any military action is religious persecution, and that neighbouring nations will be undoubtedly drawn in. Although there was considerable unease among bordering nations in 1991, thankfully this strategy did not pay dividends. Afghanistan, however, is not Iraq. To all intents and purposes it is a poor, defenceless and technologically backward nation, ruled by leaders unrepresentative of its population. It would not take much for opinions in the region to be swayed if the West is seen to be hammering an apparently easy Islamic target in retribution for last week's atrocities. And I'm sure everyone is VERY aware this time around that there are several potentially volatile nations in the immediate region with nuclear capabilities, and that the area as a whole is extremely unstable. Yes, this will certainly be a new kind of warfare. I just hope we get it right.

Worrying times.

Grainger
16th Sep 2001, 03:50
Here in Toronto, TV is now showing recruitment ads for the Canadian and US armed forces.

Commentators on CNN are showing maps of the middle east and drawing circles around Afghanistan....

Very very scary. Hope I get out before anything nasty goes down :eek:

rainbow
16th Sep 2001, 09:47
The great Abrahamic religions; Judaism, Islam and Christianity have together more of those things that unite them than divide them.

Christ, for example, is recognised as a prophet in the Moslem world.

My family and I live in a small community having in excess of a hundred nationalities living together in extreme isolation. We are three doors from a Mosque.

While we have our problems, like any other community, religous intolerence is not one of them.

We don't blame Jesus for the troubles in Belfast so let's not blame Mohammed for the World Trade Centre outrage.