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View Full Version : No defence of a misused F-word (Robert Gottliebson)


Wirraway
14th Mar 2004, 17:32
Mon "The Australian"

No defence of a misused F-word
ROBERT GOTTLIEBSEN
March 15, 2004

THERE is a rule in business that when you are under extreme pressure to make a quick big decision you often get it wrong.

Defence analysts are beginning to fear that the haste in making our biggest and most important purchasing decision may have led to error.

In 2002, the Government was under extreme pressure to make a quick decision to join the US in the development of the F-35 aircraft to replace our F-111s and F/A-18s. We didn't make a firm commitment to buy the F-35 but we set ourselves on a path that meant it would be very difficult to pull back from a $12 billion-plus purchase.

For the past three or four decades, Australia has been the pre-eminent air power in the region because we had the F-111. But now many countries in Asia are substantially upgrading their air power and in particular are buying the Russian Sukhoi Su. These aircraft are vastly superior to our F/A-18 and F-111 fleet in its current state.

Defence is like business – when the competition becomes more intense you must devise a way to retain leadership.

If the decision to back the F-35 enabled us to retain leadership, it was a good one, although there are obvious inherent risks in any new aircraft development. (Because we have not formally committed ourselves, we can exit the deal should the F-35 development not reach the expected specifications.)

But last month the Australian Strategic Policy Institute produced a 90-page report on the decision which not only graphically showed the dangers of hinging our long-term security to a development project but also warned that even if the F-35 met its expected performance levels, it had significant limitations. It is a short-range aircraft that will not deliver Australia the long-range capability the F-111 gave us.

Australia therefore plans to put all its air security into one aircraft that might be quite unsuitable for certain types of warfare and in some circumstances could be vulnerable to the sophisticated weaponry now in the hands of our northern neighbours. Future conflicts had better be as we expect them to be.

For the Americans, the specialised F-35 will be perfect for their needs because they plan to work it with the already developed F-22, which is emerging as the best all-round military aircraft in the world.

US defence chiefs are so ecstatic with the F-22 that they plan to take its development further and the increased production will reduce its unit cost.

Why didn't we buy the F-22? It seems the Defence Department in 2002 simply thought that it was too expensive for Australia.

When Robert Menzies ordered the F-111, he ensured that Australia had the pre-eminent aircraft in the region. This time we may be caught with the wrong aircraft type depending on what surprises lie ahead in coming decades.

In my view, Australia simply cannot afford to be relegated to a second-best power. How could we get ourselves into a position where we could afford an F-22 fleet?

Here we are helped by a paper by one of Australia's pre-eminent air strategists, Carlo Kopp from the Defence Studies Centre at the University of NSW plus Monash University.

Kopp sets out a series of lower cost options, which would free up the funds necessary to take the F-22 option. One is to upgrade the F-111 systems and purchase mothballed F-111s to maintain the fleet.

He says an upgraded F-111 would still be a very powerful and low-cost aircraft and points out that the US has made a similar choice with the B52 bombers.

You might then not need to buy as many F-22s. Australia is short of aerial refuelling capacity, and Kopp suggests we buy 747 passenger planes that are idle around the world and can be converted to fuel carriers at relatively low cost.

And he has a series of other suggestions along the same lines. He claims that these options, if anything, would enhance Australia's air defence capacity.

But even if he was wrong and they were not as good as the best options being proposed by the Defence Department, it would be worth it if they gave us the cash to help us retain air superiority in the region.

These options also have the side-effect of promoting Australia's defence support industries, and I should say that it is these industries that have alerted me to the aircraft problem. However, it is also true that the F-35 project is a big plus for the aeronautical service industry.

In recent years many people have warned that the defence cutbacks have included the loss of substantial strategic talent. We have seen in companies such as AMP and Southcorp the devastating effect of retiring the wrong people.

My fear is that those defence talent warnings may be chillingly accurate.

[email protected]

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Keg
15th Mar 2004, 04:07
From my readings, Carlo has a long standing love affair going with the F111. The vast majority of his papers heavily favour the retention of the aircraft at almost any cost. Whilst I don't disagree with the risk associated with the F-35 and still feel that the F22 was a far better option, I'm not convinced that retaining the F111 (and acquiring more airframes :eek: ) is the best thing for the RAAF.

As to the modification of old 747s, if QF is having trouble finding adequate 744s for capacity, the ADF has got no chance of finding any for tankers. If we're after a long term solution then the classic just doesn't cut it! Add conversion costs etc and you're probably better going for an A330 tanker which you will at least know will still be flying around in 20-30 years time. (I don't believe I just advocated someone purchasing an Airbus. Must be losing that chip from my shoulder! :D )

Hempy
15th Mar 2004, 05:00
Not quite to the topic at hand, but its good to know the F111 drivers are issued with good reading material


http://www.lexicon.net/eclan/dust/f111.jpg

Swingwing
16th Mar 2004, 01:58
Hempy- re reading material:
Navs mate, not drivers- the bloke in the left seat is squeezing the rivets out of the stick and working his guts out, while the ballast in the right set has his feet up as usual!!
Although, looks like a classic (pre AUP) jet, so the right seater is probably exhausted from just getting the INS and the tanker into the same hemisphere!

Tonka,
More seriously, your argument contains a number of fallacies about tanks, but given that this is a flying website, I won't bother with all the detail.
However, there is a lot of misinformed speculation out there, so briefly, the Abrams tanks are transportable on board all existing and future RAN sealift ships (Kanimbla, Tobruk etc, as well as the pending large amphib ships). The Abrams package (under a Foreign Military Sales case) contained all the equipment we need (simulators, fuel trucks, transporters, spares and ammo) and as such was significantly cheaper than either the contending versions of the Leopard 2 or the British Challenger. I should point out that there are any number of Leopard 2 variants - the earlier (and cheaper) models such as Leopard 2A4 were significantly deficient in capability and protection when compared to the upgraded Leopards, such as the Swiss Panzer 87 WE.
In terms of numbers purchased, remember that these weapons have been bought for infantry support. Think Black Hawk Down instead of the 8th Army versus Rommel in North Africa. 59 was the number required to procure two operational squadrons and a training squadron as well as a few in maintenance at any given time.

cheers,

SW

GRINDER
18th Mar 2004, 00:08
"Carlo Kopp" and "Defence Expert" are four words that should never be used in the same sentence.


He says an upgraded F-111 would still be a very powerful and low-cost aircraft and points out that the US has made a similar choice with the B52 bombers.

Interesting analogy, given the B-52 can carry 5 times the payload, 4 times the range at a tactical altitude (ie above 30,000'). [A strategic aircraft V's a tactical aircraft].

Macchi
18th Mar 2004, 08:50
Reading between the lines it appears that Grinder's post is "pro F35/anti F111". If I'm correct in that assumption, then your follow on logic is something that Milo Minderbinder would be proud of, specifically:

If you think that analogy is flawed ("the B-52 can carry 5 times the payload, 4 times the range at a tactical altitude") then would you be happy for the F111 to be replaced by an aircraft that carries 1/4 the payload for 1/3 the range??

Interesting...:rolleyes:

But, back to the topic at hand. It appears that the government appears to be at a crossroads in the Military acquisition process. Since the "decision" (not formalised I know but let's face it, inevitable) to purchase the F35 was made sans it's own AIR6000 project office, and with the apparent rapid selection of the Abrams, might we be on the cusp of a "Singapore-esque" acquisition style? That is, "stuff the bureaucracy, how much does it cost and what have we got in the kitty?".

Whilst this system has it's merits (e.g. it's quick!) it suffers one major flaw: whomever has the decision power can b@lls it up big time if politics gets in the way.

My solution? Allow the final acquisition decision to be made only by a boggie on a formal warning. The chances of them making a SECOND galactically stupid decision are close to zero - thereby ensuring an excellent chance of procuring top kit.

Now THAT's logic!:ok:

GRINDER
19th Mar 2004, 09:16
Macchi - I am not anti F-111, even though I believe that the capability that the ADF gets from the Pig is not worth the money spent. My point was that to compare the F-111 to the B-52 is like comparing apples and oranges, with the B-52 being a strategic bomber (ie fly half way around the world and deliver approx 50 JDAMS) and the F-111 being a tactical bomber.

You will also find that the F-35 will pack a significant punch in the future with the advent of the SDB (small diameter bomb), of which it can carry 8 internally.

People need to be very careful when reading Carlo Kopp articles, he makes lots of assumptions on aircraft capability - Why - because he does not have access to classified material which would reveal the true capabilities of these aircraft. Does anyone really believe that the SU-27 (or its variants) are vastly superior to an F/A-18 shooting AMRAAM's and high of boresight weapons such as AIM-9X with a helmet mounted cueing system???? (If they do, then they believe the US navy has also got it wrong!!!)

Lastly, the F-35 may have initial development issues (but didn't the F-111), but the Americans need to make this platform work and they will. Why - Because they have approximately 1000 Tac air platforms that need to be replaced in the next 20 years, most sooner rather than later.

Food for thought

Cheers Grinder

Double Asymmetric
19th Mar 2004, 23:31
The original article rolled and pulled through into a credibility fireball when it said ...one of Australia's pre-eminent air strategists, Carlo Kopp.... My God does anyone actually listen to this idiot? Instead of ranting on about things he knows little about, he should go back to his Piper Warrior and airfix models. Oh yeah, as Swingwing alludes to, there is more to the Abrams buy than simple number of hulls. Remember, it is the choice the Army wanted (including the CGS), you may pause to remember the Army just may be the subject matter experts on the employment of armour.

Macchi
20th Mar 2004, 01:07
Grinder - point taken re: apples & oranges, and along with DA let me stress that my post was in no way intended to promote or endorse CK's rantings!

Alas, that whilst the F111 did indeed suffer extremely serious delays, it a least represented an enormous shift in regional defence politics (ie as a massive deterrent) and it's arrival eventually established Australia as having the biggest stick in the region. My fear is that the iminent demise of the Pig combined with the expected delays of the F35 (Lockheed Martin themselves have admitted the CTOL version is "at least 9% overweight" and are awaiting "technology advances" in order to achieve said weight!!) will leave us with a significant capability gap. Contrary to what the '3 stars' and the policy makers say, I for one don't believe the required stop gap measures (tankers, AWACS, P3 issues, HUG completion and integrated FSOW) will:
1. Arrive when expected, &
2. Wield the same regional deterrent.

As ALI G would say, Let's "keep it real" and buy a hundred Mud hens now! No more A models pleeeeeeease.... :}