View Full Version : Shattered illusions

12th Sep 2001, 11:35

Yesterday, on Chat, several people said people were dancing with joy on the streets of Afghanistan. I said I thought that was unlikely.

But, last night, when I finally dared turn on the tv, I saw, with my own eyes, scenes of jubilation.

Please, please can someone tell me all is not what it seems? That Afghan tv stations dumbed down the level of terror? Or that the scenes were staged by Islamic leaders? Or even that this dancing has been exaggerated by our own tv stations?

Because if this is not the case, if people really are dancing in the streets, then the beliefs on which I've based most of my life - that people are basically good, regardless of race, colour or creed - are falling down around me.

Desperately trying to understand...


Kermit 180
12th Sep 2001, 11:51
Well mate, I too am lost for words after seeing that on my TV. Didnt see Afghans dancing, but I did see Palestinians doing so. Like yousrself, I hope that they were dancing due to propaganda declaring a victory over the USA and not due to the sights of the devastation in NY that we have seen in the west. A bad gut feeling tells me this is the start of worse things to come.

12th Sep 2001, 11:59
It was reported this morning that the Palestinians were not aware of the scale of the soft targets attacked.

I pray to God that the scenes on TV were before the true nature of the crime was realised. Otherwise my beliefs will have also been destroyed yesterday.


Bio Warrior
12th Sep 2001, 12:34
FFF honey....

People are prone to fear and anger... they wish to destroy what they fear and for the people in Afganistan/Pallisine they have been taught to fear the USA; That the country which they harmed was an enemy one which they do not see as people but as a power hungry enemy, they will not see pictures of grieving families, they will not speak to or spend painful hours of waiting to know if people they love are amoung the dead.... but they have suffered from retalitory attacks from USA and see USA as a bully in the world playground, an arogant superpower. And the building were just pretty symbols, like BigBen or London bridge. So they danced like spectators at a sporting match.
Jesus summed it up this part of humanity by saying "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Most of us are numb, we are grieving and questioning how any human could knowingly do this. I wish I could answer that. But know that the people who did this did not have all the facts, they are victoms of hate and misunderstanding....

tBut FFF remember that hundreds of New Yorkers gave blood and worked to rescue the wounded risked their lives. That all the world has stopped and grieved and prayed that one of those planes destined for Camp David did not make it that far, maybe because the pilot chose to end his own life early to stop more devistaion.... though it is hard to remember at this time there is good in the world and to forget that and to stop believing in that good is to let the hate and terror win.

-Grieving and praying

12th Sep 2001, 18:45
The citizens of the USA have no idea how many people around the world hate them. Whilst many in Europe simply dislike them, there are many that hate with a passion we cannot yet understand.

The USA is so insulated in it's vast country, with so many resources and variations that only some 20% of the population have a passport. They do not need to leave their castle.

I fear that the scale of these crimes, will have so enraged them, that they will not be able to pause and consider that hate and what they might be able to do to change it.

Unfortunately, that might be part of the thinking behind the crimes.

Send Clowns
12th Sep 2001, 22:28
Thanks for the calm, rational note, Bio. It is what is needed overall in this terrible, terrible situation.

On the subject of shattered illusions, the biggest is security. I and many like me joined armed services accepting the risk of events similar to those suffered yesterday in the hope that others would not have to experience them. This is my disillusionment. What we most wanted to prevent, what we most feared, war coming to civilians, has happened.


12th Sep 2001, 22:55
That appalling display by the Palestinians yesterday has now been overtaken by sorrow and sympathy from the vast majority of Palestinians.

There are reports that the suicide pilots could well have been Egyptian and Saudi - and several arrests have been made in a Boston hotel. Perhaps a moment to reflect that reprisals against the wrong source could have unimaginable repercussions.

Many people who died were from outside America; it is a sad day for the world.

14th Sep 2001, 04:54
I think two illusions have been shattered in this incident. One is that humanity is basically good. If we bring the bible to bear on this situation we see an accurate critique of humanity. It is basically self-serving and evil. That doesn't mean we only ever serve ourselves. Take for example the selfless acts in New York as we speak. But, as a generalisation, people are out for themselves. It was humans, not sick individuals, but evil individuals, who slammed aircraft into those buildings.

The second illusion to shatter is that somehow we can isolate ourselves from the rest of this screwed-up world. The world is indeed a place of pain and suffering. Western democracies has endeavoured to seal themselves off from this reality. But it is pressing home, through our defences. Australia has just brought to light its attempts to seal itself off from the refugee problem, and now the USA finds terror on its doorstep.

This should be a wake-up call to our decadent, hedonist, western society. The world is not a wonderful place. Money and pleasure are not the most important things in life. Only God provides hope in this bleak, dark situation. If you think this is an overstatement, try looking outside the western world, and into the third world, were suffering is a currency traded by all.

The US need to seek justice at this time, not bloody revenge. That is the right call. Level-headed, exacting, proportional justice.

14th Sep 2001, 07:05
When all things fall into place for me, there is no reason to kill inocents. We welcome all people, but we expect a resonable level of behavior. I will not kill a individual with out reason, nor will I crash an airplane into a building.
I have no regard for the indviduals that attacked the USA, nor for any government that provides haven for these individuals.
We must stamp these individuals into the ground.
We have become one entity, there are no borders in aviation. The acts of these %$$#%%$^^^^^*&&((%$$% will affect us all.
I may shortly be unemployed because of this incident, minor problem in comparison to the loss of life, but what was the reason.
Some asshole would not go to school, learn a trade, and does not accept people who will advance themselves.
Bitter post, but I will not accept their views. We will defeat them.
Long live the glass parking lot.