View Full Version : Neil Duncan Robertson v. Her Majesty's Advocate

9th Mar 2004, 20:17
The Appeal Court, High Court Justiciary last month refused the appeal against the [discretionary] life sentence imposed last year.

Reading the Opinion given, you can understand why.

The full judgment [not for the faint hearted] can be found on the Scottish Courts website.

9th Mar 2004, 20:28
Or, to save you searching, just click here (http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/XC1020.html).

Although I have to say that, having only ready the first couple of paragraphs, I'm feeling particularly unwell already.


9th Mar 2004, 20:34
Absolutely abhorrent.

Stoney X
9th Mar 2004, 20:44
Awful read that ends on a high note.
[36] The appeal against the sentence of life imprisonment is accordingly refused.

9th Mar 2004, 20:44
Evil, sick, twisted b astard. :yuk:

9th Mar 2004, 21:07
Does he have internet access while he is in jail?

9th Mar 2004, 21:38
Absolutely abhorrent.


After a pleasant lunch, I'm feeling ill. I shouldn't have read on.

9th Mar 2004, 21:58
I do not consider myself to have lived a particularly sheltered life but I found I had to stop reading after the first few paragraphs as I was feeling physically sick. I hope he never sees the outside of prison again and that he suffers every day for what he has done.

Sorry for the lack of “Cheers” but I do not feel it is appropriate


Mr Chips
9th Mar 2004, 22:07
What little I read I found very disturbing. I havie met the man, and I find it incredible that anyone would behave in such a way.


Mr Chips

9th Mar 2004, 22:15
having only ready the first couple of paragraphs

I couldn't even get that far.

Horrendous, hope his fellow inmates know all about it.

9th Mar 2004, 22:27
After a most enjoyable lunch with a fellow PPRuNer, also the father of two delightful little girls, I too read the first paragraph.

There really aren't any words.....

9th Mar 2004, 22:49
After reading the whole document I fully agree with the sentimnets of my fellow PPRuner's above.

I thought the last few sentences in the last paragraph were the most telling, with one of the final sentaces being:-

We consider that the risk posed by this appellant is such that a finite sentence cannot provide the necessary protection for members of the public

That says it all really IMHO.

Send Clowns
9th Mar 2004, 23:02
My hands have stopped shaking enough to type accurately now. What a sad story for this poor, poor child :{ How terrible that she had to suffer before anyone took this man's malovent manipulation and distortions seriously.

Boss Raptor
9th Mar 2004, 23:23
Having been very close to the whole 'Guv' saga I was not at the time too shocked by the affair probably as I, like Danny, was exposed/involved in it for some time previous and to an extent pre-prepared for the outcome becoming quite cold to it...I have to say however reading this again today has made me feel quite sick and emotional for the 1st time... piedophilia aside I can personally recognise in this tract many of his manipulative traits etc. that I (and others) saw and were subject to...and some of my friends warned me about that they saw in him and I frankly didnt in the beginning :ugh:

I dont think it's something I or Danny are going to forget in a hurry however much we would like to

I hope someone with posting rights on Airwhiners and Airliners.net will do the honours as there were a few there that did not believe...and all those who criticised us, particularly Danny, for our actions against 'Guv' will now see why... :hmm:

9th Mar 2004, 23:41
I sincerely apologise for anything that I ever wrote here in this [email protected]@rds defence! :yuk:

I wish that there was a harsher punishment legal!

9th Mar 2004, 23:50
I wouldn't hold your breath Boss!!

I am sure there are still quite a few Ceilidh/SAS23 fans on Airliners.net. Even after being tried and convicted, there were those who went to great lengths to defend the creep.

Please may he be befriended by someone who wants to mother him and rot in hell.


10th Mar 2004, 00:05
What a kin @rshole.

However as one with little faith in the judiciary. I have to say well done for refusing his appeal on the "life" sentance. Its just a shame that the death penalty is not available.

Appologise for my language but I've got a daughter of the same age, it makes you realise that not everyone on this planet views it in the same light as oneself, maybe I've always been a bit naive to such abhorant behaviour.

10th Mar 2004, 00:06
Point 36 is the only reasonable bit of reading.

Someone has already asked if he has acces to the internet in prison, I certainly hope his inmates have and when they read the link that FFF has posted I would think he should be careful in the showers tomorow morning.

The girls isnt even 10 and this happened a few years ago, horrific.


10th Mar 2004, 01:27
As a father of a two-year old little girl - I felt physically sick reading the above link.

I hope the [email protected] rots in hell forever. :yuk: :mad:

PPRuNe Pop
10th Mar 2004, 01:48
I met the man several times. It was clear he was someone who could not be trusted. His delusions of grandeur were painful at times but he knew aviation very well. I know of two people whom he fleeced - it was not nice.

However, Danny was determined to see him get what he really deserved and I was able to help him get him to the head of the Met Paedophile unit who then set the wheels in motion very quickly and within a few weeks NDR was nicked. That made the three of us feel very good indeed.

I rarely think about the man but was delighted to be reminded when he his appeal was rejected.

I have to say that I think it is a pity that the transcript of the appeal is available for all to see. But, there ya go it is a personal decision whether to read it or not.

I would like to forget him now!

10th Mar 2004, 04:40
I read this earlier this afternoon and still feel very, very ill many hours later.

For once, justice and the law have got it absolutely right.

On a personal note, I know the major role that was played by Danny in this; He suffered personal threats and a great deal of unpleasantness throughout the whole business but was utterly tenacious in seeing that this animal was brought to justice. I for one would like to extend my most heartfelt thanks for all that he did. There is no doubt that the world is a safer place with this character behind bars.


10th Mar 2004, 05:47
Great job done by those behind the scenes at PPRUNE to get this guy locked up. If it wasn't for your outstanding actions he might still be up to this abhorrant behaviour. My thoughts now turn to the victim. I pray she's a tough little cookie and, against the odds, hope that she somehow manages to regain a semblance of normal life.

10th Mar 2004, 06:26
Grim, grim reading....

I forced myself to read this and it is sickening but I'm glad I did to fully comprehend what this little girl went through.

I have 4 children myself, now all grown up and happy but my heart is breaking after reading this. God knows how many other Robertscums are out there....

You sometimes wonder how lawyers can do what they do. I mean how can Roberstcums lawyer stand there and challenge the imposition of the discretionary life sentence, submitting that the sentance was "an excessive disposal having regard to the nature of the conduct described in charge 1 and the fact that the specific incidents mentioned in the Crown narrative occurred within a relatively short period of time towards the end of 2002."

I remember Robertscum when he was tring to get his fantasy airline off the ground, he contacted us in Dublin to try and get us on board. We told him to f**k off as it was clear he was a Walter Mitty. Little did we know that was his best trait........

Some people really do have depressing jobs. Remember these social workers and clinical psychologists and the courts deal with these cases frequently.

It can be a sick and tragic world out there. I'm now going to e-mail my children and tell them I love them, then I'll go and cuddle my wife and thank god that our kids have grown up safe and are happy.

Dan Winterland
10th Mar 2004, 15:31
Could only read the first paragraph. Life should mean life in this case.

Well done to Danny and all those responsible for bringing him to justice.

10th Mar 2004, 16:58
I hope a certain, soon to retire, By Captain reads these pages and realises what his activities could lead to. Be careful out there.

One world 22, I envy you your last paragraph and wish you well.

10th Mar 2004, 18:06
'Nonces' such as this ba$tard can expect little sympathy in the slammer.

I'm sure he'll look forward to a porridge shampoo etc.....!!

10th Mar 2004, 18:49
They should chop his member off, and shove it down his F;;king
throat, ba##ards like him should not breathe the same air as us.

10th Mar 2004, 19:39
I hope that more people are able to read this report and to take lessons from it. As wonderful a tool as the internet is, it is also a Godsend to the sick and twisted as it can easily be used to identify and trap the naive and desperate who turn to it as a last resort.

On these forums alone there are many desperate and naive wannabees who come here for advice and guidance, and I'm sure there are fantasists lurking in the shadows who would be more than happy to offer their own particular brand of 'professional assistance'. I can only hope that given the superb job Danny and the team appear to have done in playing their part in this case, there is now a wealth of experience and awareness within these forums to prevent a repeat.

My wife has spent her entire working life within Social Services, and unfortunately during that time has had some involvement in cases such as this. Disgusting and abhorent as his actions may be, sadly there are many even more nauseating cases than this which occur with frightening regularity. Like many such criminals, only the actions for which they have finally been caught come to light. It doesn't require a great leap of imagination to consider just how many more offences individuals such as this commit over an extended period of time, nor how many equally sick associates they have made. I truly wish it were possible to identify each and every one of them and allow the genaral public to do with them what they will.

Children have the most remarkable ability to recover from the most horrific traumas, whether physical or mental, and I'm sure I am not alone in hoping that this will be the case for the little girl concerned, and for the other poor kids that have undoubtedly been subject to this evil paedophile in the past. To an adult it may seem that this could never happen, but I know that it can and does, and such children go on to lead successful and happy lives, and to be loving partners and parents.

11th Mar 2004, 00:50
Just for information, I would appreciate it, if posting a reply to this thread, that readers count to ten before hitting the submit button. Whilst the details in the report are graphic, to say the least, I and my moderators don't want to have to spend too much time having to edit or remove replies just because the poster doesn't have the maturity or eloquence to write something that is actually meaningful. Gut reaction is a 'given' and there is no need to put ones fantasies of revenge to print.

On a slightly separate note, I see that there is no mention of Robertson and his guilt on either airliners.net or the spoof site, airwhiners.net. The owners of both those websites allowed Robertson to use their forums to attack me personally. They allowed him to try and belittle PPRuNe and the campaign that I ran to expose him for the paedophile and swindler that he was even though I sent them copies of the evidence that I had collated. It was not until I employed the services of a lawyer and threatened them and their hosting companies to desist from allowing Robertson to continue making posts against me that they chose to put some sort of restraint on him.

Even after the evidence was presented to the owners of those sites, Robertson was allowed to continue posting on topics that didn't involve me or PPRuNe and thankfully the police moved to have Robertson placed into custody which finally stopped him gathering more converts to his twisted causes. Even today, there are posters on those forums that refuse to believe that Robertson was actually a dangerous man and the owner of Airwiners.net still claims that Robertson is a trusted friend and may only have erred slightly in his ways.

I still have circumstancial evidence from Robertsons time in Africa, especially as 'CEO' of 'City Connections' in Rwanda, of his abuse of local children. Unforunately, there is little that can be done about that and thankfully, the judiciary in Scotland have had the common sense and foresight to make sure that Robertson will not use his intelligence to con and worm his way out of this life sentence.

11th Mar 2004, 06:24
I had a brief look at the details of the case and I did not get past the first paragraph....
Truly, truly horrible.
I read the post by Danny after he was convicted and I was not aware of this man or his activities on the site. I was astonished.
Shortly after this, I happened to come across an article in a woman's magazine telling the story from the mother's point of view. It was so sad and the whole thing is just sickening.

after reading ur post a very long time ago, I'd just like to say that u r truly a good man. God bless you for being so resiliant and your actions probably helped save a number of children from being abused.

Pigs can Fly
12th Mar 2004, 01:23
Makes me want (momentarily) to go back to my old career and help to catch a few more of these bast*rds. The question has to be, how many other victims are out there? Personal experience tells me this is just the tip of the iceberg. Rot in hell....


13th Mar 2004, 00:04
A positive end to this saga for NDR, but I will always remember the feeling in the pit of my stomach on reading this report. I have recently become a new father to a beautiful baby girl, so this story has taken on a slightly different meaning to me.

I would like to extend my sincere thanks to all involved for bringing this evil man to the justice he so obviously deserved.

eastern wiseguy
13th Mar 2004, 01:00
I must say that reading the report ranks as one of the worst things I have ever done...thoroughly depraved ..A question though ...as he has been given life what can he actually expect to serve?

13th Mar 2004, 01:21
I loathe what the Guv did as much as the next but to be honest with you when I read that stuff the mothers behaviour & naievity did & still does my head in. :rolleyes:

What I'm wondering is what does 'a life sentence' mean, I always take the term 'life sentence' with a grain of salt. I wonder in reality how long he is likely to serve?

I was talking to a police officer in Ireland who specialises in child porn recently regarding an email about teenage porn that had come into a computer that concerned me. I said to him the email even had a name, phone number & address so this evil predator should be easy to track down. Then I realised my naievity & said to him 'Of course they may not be real'.

He retorted 'Listen, nothing is real on the internet unless you post it yourself'.

Words of advice & warning that should be heeded I think. While the internet is a wonderful tool of communication, convenience, research & education, one should always remain cautious & prudent about its use & others users claims since it isn't reality.

Coco :rolleyes:

13th Mar 2004, 05:16
Haven't read the link, neither interested in the details of the Dutroux case. We know what these fcuking psychopats can do to children, but I don't have to know the details. It's like stopping at an accident watching the bloody parts lying around, satisfiying ones low instincts. One day these vermin have to answer mightier powers and may they feel the eternal heat off hell :yuk: :yuk:

13th Mar 2004, 06:30
Danny and the others have done an excellent job in bringing this man to justice.
Deepest deepest sympathy for the young girl, she has been tragically robbed of her childhood. We can only hope she finds the strength to overcome this horrific episode. The poor girl.

13th Mar 2004, 20:27

I hope a certain, soon to retire, By Captain reads these pages and realises what his activities could lead to. Be careful out there.

Well, if you know of another weirdo around, it's your responsability to make the police aware of that.
Think about his victims. could be our kids ....

14th Mar 2004, 01:55

Whilst I appreciate what you say, and why you are saying it, at the end of the day, it is a question of evidence.

If the vital ingredients are present, then the matter may be able to proceed as you describe.

If allegations are made, the evidence must be produced to substantiate any claim.

If the police in the UK are satisfied, then a file is sent to the CPS for their consideration.

14th Mar 2004, 05:52
The Police were informed but the victims of this person are my adult daughters who were forced into years of silence to, mis-guidededly, protect their Mother. My knowledge of the past was given to me under harrowing and very traumatic circumstances. very recently. Believe me if I could find a way to do the b******, I really would.

As for protecting others, I can only offer the odd hint on this forum and hope, as in NR's case, that someone can find a means to get the guy. I am also hopeful that I played a SMALL part in steering Danny in NR's direction for the person I knew him to be.

Please find it in you to bear with me in a complicated and life sentence of sadness and unhappiness in that I was not able to prevent what happened.

Like I say, be so careful out there.

14th Mar 2004, 12:01

My sentiments exactly - couldn't have put it better........

14th Mar 2004, 13:04
skip to the end, Paragraph 35, if you want to read the conclusion and avoid all the nasty stuff.

14th Mar 2004, 13:54
Unfortunately some of us have to deal with cases of this general nature, in a professional capacity, on a regular basis (in my case thankfully not very often, for some people several times a day.)

This case, although enormously disturbing for the child, her family and society in general, at least did not include the imposition of physical torture or even death that other cases end in, as we all know from far too many recent reports from the UK, Belgium and Russia, to name but three countries in the news at present.

All I can beg is that anyone who still thinks that pornography, and particularly, of course, child pornography, on the Internet is "funny", "a bit of a lark", "harmless fun", "a useful safety valve" or anything other than a dangerous and harmful evil, please to reread this judgement and to think again, and, if you can bear to, pass the message on as I am doing now.


14th Mar 2004, 14:26
I understand Neil Duncan at one time was a PPrune member,
but why does all of this and the court report have to be made public on Pprune?
Does it benefit anybody?
Does it interest anybody?Should it?
I find it all rather misplaced, I did not understand even why a sticky was posted when this sick individual was arrested.
I think he gets way more attention this way than he deserves.

14th Mar 2004, 17:38
Court reports are matters of public record in the US; I think they are in the UK also. Why shouldn't it be made public? If it inspires one person to report a suspected pedophile, it's worth its bandwidth a million fold.

Boss Raptor
14th Mar 2004, 17:45
It benefits/interests the individual Pprune members whom he lied to, attempted to mislead, defraud etc. and when uncovered made considerable problems and accusations privately and publically against those parties to cover his tracks...

It benefits/interests the Pprune membership as a whole who can now understand what was going on for that period of 18 months when NDR was attempting to cause maximum disruption to this forum and some its members

If u were one of those individuals affected then you understand the 'benefit' :*

...and is not making a wider audience aware of the aspects/signs of pedophile behaviour of benefit/interest...I certainly wasn't aware of many of the signs that apparently are common to this kind of character defect!?

14th Mar 2004, 18:07

Well said, indeed!


14th Mar 2004, 19:01
On the positive side, think how much NDR will have improved 'Bubba' the lifer's sex life, and 'Razor' the psychopath's opportunity for catharctic aggression release. :E

Evening Star
15th Mar 2004, 07:59
Just read the whole report and rather regret doing so :yuk:.

he had a limited capacity for guilt and displayed no emotion with respect to his offending;

Very frightening. At NDR's original trial, a number of people expressed concern that his sentencing being delayed for social and psychological reports would get him a lenient sentence. As it turns out, the work of these professionals ensured the opposite. Now rather more inclined to believe sentencing based upon social and psychological reports than the lurid headlines that can go with it.

Thing I find most disturbing about all this is how he used a vulnerable parent to get to the child. How is that mother going to feel each time she tries to get support for her already damaged child?

The mole
15th Mar 2004, 10:46
sick sick sick. Better for him to rot in gaol forever

PPRuNe Pop
15th Mar 2004, 12:55
Evening Star

...........fortunately, for that is how I like to think of it. The presiding Judge at NDR's trial had, just a few weeks previously, might even have been shorter than that, was villified in the press and on TV for his leniency in the subject of very unsavoury incident before him, concerning a paedophile and a baby! He gave that person a very short sentence indeed. That WAS sick in my view and he had to run the gaunlet of a rightful attack in the press.

So..................I hope that NDR, before the same Judge, got life because that Judge felt some kind of guilt and the need with NDR's trial to, shall we say, redress the balance - the status quo! NDR has 5 and half years to go before he can be considered for parole. I rather hope that he will get nothing and serve the full term.

Now, I am going forget him.

15th Mar 2004, 13:27

The severity of a sentence shouldn't be decided because a judge needs toredress the balance it should be because the offence justifies it, not out of revenge.

I have to admit the life sentence surprised me a bit, horrible enough as the crime is its not murder or manslaughter . Personally I'd be very surprised if he did serve life, it's more a token sentence than a realistic sentence IMHO.

Correct me if I'm wrong....


15th Mar 2004, 14:52
There is a surprising number of offences for which a life sentence may be imposed. Manslaughter isn't usually one of them.

15th Mar 2004, 15:25
B2N2,Why does all of this and the court report have to be made public on Pprune?The report was not "made public on Pprune" - it was made public on the Scottish courts' website, and linked to from Pprune.

Having been unfortunate enough to have met the Guvnor once (I suppose I should count myself lucky to have only met him the once, and not become involved in any of his cons or worse) I, for one, am interested in seeing him get what he deserves, and I can only assume that those who know him better than me also appreciate the link being here.


15th Mar 2004, 22:18
Those who read the report and wish they hadn't done so are often the same people who turn a blind eye to the victims of such a man in later life. There is a strong possibility that this child will grow up with guilt and loss of self worth. She will take a lot of convincing that she was not in some way to blame. All too often such victims go through life, often harming themselves and resorting to drink and drugs as a coping strategy. Nobody believes them or they are told to put the incident behind them and 'get on with life'. Sweeping it under the carpet is not good enough, we should be constantly aware of what these people do.
Life imprisonment, certainly - with regular attention from other prisoners, who often have children of their own.

Evening Star
16th Mar 2004, 07:14
Those who read the report and wish they hadn't done so are often the same people who turn a blind eye to the victims of such a man in later life.

No Nineiron. Those who regret reading the report are, based upon understanding, even more likely to treat the victims with compassion.

16th Mar 2004, 09:53

You would be surprised just what abuse victims are capable of achieving in their lives. Just because Trisha/Oprah/the tabloid press like to believe they all become miserable human beings doesn't necessarily make it so.

16th Mar 2004, 10:27
witchdoctor You would be surprised just what abuse victims are capable of achieving in their lives.I fear that statistics show that the most likely thing that abuse victims will achieve in their lives is to abuse others.

I know that there are many uplifting counter-examples, but the grey truth is that many go on to dish out similar abuse to that they have suffered.


16th Mar 2004, 11:13

I just wonder sometimes how these life sentences are decided. These life sentences that don't mean life sentences do my head in.

Four young fellas over here from posh homes just got respectively 4 years, two years, nine months & one aquitted for manslaughter, kicking & punching another young man to death outside a nightclub, mind you it may have been provoked by the deceased. But still that's the value placed on a human life, an irreversibly crime.

I also wonder are they putting the Guv through any kind of rehabilitative program to try & cure him of his weird tendencies or sickness or whatever you like to call it, if not they should be otherwise the prison authorities etc are wasting their time & taxpayers money. If not you're right, he shouldn't be let out until the authorities are passably confident he won't get back to his old ways even then IMHO he should be tagged for life.

If the Guv gets life, what does that weirdo Marc Detroux in Belguim get, six life sentences, who cares. A life sentence should mean a life sentence, not five years off there for this & ten years for there for that, that makes a joke of the whole Judicial system IMHO. Also this sentence should only be handed down if the crime fits the punishment.

The crimes the Guv did deserved a harsh sentence but whether it deserved life I'm not so sure & whether he'll serve life, I have my doubts. Sorry just my opinion & I still think the childs mother was an eejit! :mad:


Big Tudor
16th Mar 2004, 11:33
Not sure about NDR's case for rehab / retraining. I do know that it is not appropriate in some cases as it can be counterproductive, dependent on the offenders profile and character. Some paedophiles actually get as much of a kick out of the rehab as they do out of offending!:mad:
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that I would rather my taxes went on keeping the likes of NDR behind bars. Kids & parents have enough to worry about without being preyed on by perverts. I am very grateful to all those who put themselves out to make sure justice was served on this particular individual.

Coco - it's very easy to condemn the childs mother from the comfort of a home pc. However, as has been explained very clearly on this forum, the Guv was a very persuasive character. He managed to convince rational, intelligent people to part with large sums of money on non-existant ventures. Some of these individuals are pilots who, as a race, are not reknowned for being easily separated from their cash. Imagine how easily a mother, desparate for a cure for her sick child, could be persuaded by such a man!

One thing to bear in mind is that research has shown, in the majority of child abuse cases, the offender was either known or related to the victim. It's not just the strangers we should be telling the kids to avoid.

Boss Raptor
16th Mar 2004, 11:44
There appears to be some misunderstanding/misconception of what 'Life' particularly in the case of the Guv is/means;

The Guv was sentanced to 'Life with a tariff he should serve minimum 6 years' - in practical terms and as detailed in the recent Appeal hearing this means that the authorities do not have to give automatic parole and/or release as with a standard sentance (which is what Guv appealed for his to be revised to).

He will serve a minimum of 6 years and then only be released when the authorities consider him fit to be so...which could be 8 years, 10 years and on, they can keep him in as long as they see fit...after he is eventually released he will be on permenant licence and control/supervision from the authorities...not allowed to leave the country etc. and should he do anything wrong whatsoever he will be back in prison i.e. 'Life' means life - his appeal clearly indicated that they consider he will remain a risk to offend again and this is why his sentance was not reduced to an ordinary custodial sentance with automatic parole and free and clear once released.

16th Mar 2004, 15:53
Interestingly, in this case (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3516714.stm) the defendant was "only" given 7 years (ie will serve a maximum of 3 1/2) despite the fact that "on the face of it" it is a more serious case, which shows the value of pre-sentence reports.


17th Mar 2004, 00:10
I fear that statistics show that the most likely thing that abuse victims will achieve in their lives is to abuse others.I think you have things turned around somewhat. It is probably true that most abusers have been abused. It is certainly not true that most abused become abusers.

Statistics about the frequency of abuse are rather dodgy. I know a woman who is a clinical psychologist who specializes in sexual abuse. IIRC, she told me that something on the order of 1/4 of woman have been sexually abused and something on the order of 1/10 boys have been sexually abused.

Yes, the scars do last forever. No, it doesn't necessarily mean that they can't live relatively happy, productive lives.

A life sentence should mean a life sentence, not five years off there for this & ten years for there for that, that makes a joke of the whole Judicial system IMHO. It is my impression that in the UK, a "life" sentence can result in release in 15 years or less. Is that true?

Here in the colonies, at least in my state, a life sentence is simply that, life behind bars with no parole: the only way out is in a box.

17th Mar 2004, 06:37
No, it doesn't necessarily mean that they can't live relatively happy, productive lives. Please note that I made that very point in my post. Of course there are many counter examples, but they are noteworthy because they are not the norm.


17th Mar 2004, 16:09

I disagree. We tend not to see the counter examples because we don't know they were abused in the first place. Sexual abuse is grossly under reported and many survivors do live happy and productive lives.

17th Mar 2004, 23:32
I agree that we see only the tip of the iceberg, but that goes for both the preceding generation as well as the one that follows.

Let's face it, the stats aren't conclusive either way, and can easily be twisted to confuse cause and effect. But whatever the majority, we both agree on two things:

1) It is perfectly possible and reasonably common that abused people go on to have healthy and happy lives.

2) It is unfortunately also common for those who are abused to go on to abuse others in a similar manner.

I guess it doesn't matter whether it is 70/30 or 30/70, there's a lot of both.

I worry for and about the second bunch.


18th Mar 2004, 00:22
On a separate, but related matter, whilst the government is keen to limit access airside to all those with any sort of regular criminal past (theft, tax fiddling! etc), it doesn't seem quite so fussed about pedophiles.

One such pedophile pilot, recently convicted of making/possessing pornographic images of children, resigned immediately following his guilty plea and sentencing. He had until that time been working for a major British airline. A few months later, however, he is known to have been employed by another British company in a similar role. One can only assume that his conviction and entry onto the sex offenders register is of no consequence as far as obtaining a CRC at basic level. Should someone with this history be permitted to work in a capacity where there will inevitably be the potential for contact with minors and which (rightly or wrongly) is generally regarded by the public as respectable and trustworthy?

Funny old world :-(

18th Mar 2004, 07:34

Although it is, of course, a worry that a paedophile should ever, under any circumstances, be near children unsupervised, you can take some comfort from the fact that nearly all paedophilia follows an extensive period of grooming, over several encounters, during which the child is made to feel safe with the paedophile, and the paedophile persuades the child that it's "their little secret."

Although brutal attacks on random children on first meeting do take place, they are very rare and are perpetrated by a different personality type to the "groomers." (odd though it may seem the groomers, on the whole, seem to be very gentle, non-violent types.)

All I am saying is that you have to multiply the risk of a paedophile being employed in a position where he doesn't have ongoing exposure to the same child with the small risk that that particular one is an attacker rather than a persuader.