Paul Stoddart Announces OzJet

[SkyScanner]

On the late news tonight, Paul Stoddart has announced the start of OzJet. He said they will use Bae146 in 100 seat configuration. They will be flying out of secondary airports. Airports under consideration include Bankstown, Moorabbin, Essendon and Archerfield. Anyone heard any more information?

[woftam]

Just what we need,another Airline!

[Dark & Stormy]

Has anyone heard any more ( apart from what was reported on the late night channel 10 news 6-3-04 ) news of the the new LCC airline OZ JET which will be operating out of secondary airports ( Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney )?
It's due to start in October 04 according to the news interview with Paul Stoddard, who seems to be the man driving the airline.
Paul said they are going to use BAE-146's and charge around $149 to all ports.

[KLN94]

And BAE146's flying into Bankstown...

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Archerfield keep getting a mention as a secondary for Brisbane.

I think AF would need to much $$ put in to make it a reality. The runway is still weight limited from memory and the apron too small.....

What about an Amberley set-up like the joint user Willytown or TL?.

All of Ipswich and the Downs would be a great catchment like Avalon is for Geelong.

[MoFo]

Is this the same Paul Stoddard who spends zillions on a Grand Prix racing team that never comes within cooee of a win. The same team that gives new young drivers a start only to see them snapped up by the big guys overseas.

This bloke must have a compulsion thing about burning hundred dollar notes.
Oh well, each to his own. Good luck Paul.

[campdog3]

Does anyone have any idea about recruitment, requirements etc. i guess that a 146 endo would help????

[EPIRB]

He must have more money than sense. Why would you use a 146 for anyway?

[EPIRB]

Can't see them being allowed to use Essendon. Too many whingers live nearby.

[Buster Hyman]

Well, how about that! A third domestic airport in Melbourne...who'd have thought! He's also looking at Moorabbin too!

I might set up an airline that runs between Tulla-Essendon-Avalon & Moorabbin! It'll be a monster!:rolleyes:

[Al E. Vator]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1060783.htm

My first thought given the JetStar launch was, "You must have rocks in your head" but if he can secure Moorabbin or Essendon, Bankstown and Archerfield the GOOD LUCK TO HIM.

Yes Essendon may be difficult to get into because of the residents but Moorabbin would be WAY, WAY better anyhow. The demographic centre of Melbourne is somewhere around Noble Park and the drive to Tullamarine is a pain. 15 minutes to Moorabbin would be brilliant and really appeal - certainly to me anyhow. If he can sustain say $99 airfares from Moorabbin to Mascot or Bankstown then I would certainly use him as would literally millions of others. Moorabbin is a far better concept than JetStars' Avalon, purely by the major population base located within 20 minutes (toll-free) drive.

Bankstown is a little more difficult to get to or from but if you get a cab there is a railway station nearby so anywhere is within reach. Again it is close to millions of urban Sydney dwellers.

This is what deregulation is all about, eager entrepreneurs finding major (Virgin) and niche (OzJet) markets. They said Virgin would fold and it is bigger than ever.

One only hopes that the ripoff merchants at Qantas don't put pressure on John Anderson (their lapdog in Canberra) to prevent little airliners from using airports like Moorabbin. He would of course use 'environmental grounds' for preventing such operations but in reality his main motive would be in securing his post-politics position on the QF board.

Unfortunately I guess the BAe146 is a necessity due to short field lengths and noise considerations (please OzJet, use this in your marketing - 'Whisperjets' etc - and prove they are quiter than Metros or Navajos that regularly use the airports).

I am sure there are many current or ex-Southern 146 employees who would happily return from their possibly dull employment outside of aviation to be involved with something like this.

After my initial scepticism I have thought about it at length and wish them all the very best - I reckon it's a real goer. :ok:

[Wirraway]

AAP

Third budget airline flagged
March 7, 2004 - 6:18PM

Formula One Minardi team boss Paul Stoddart hopes to have a new budget airline called OzJet flying Australia's east coast by Christmas.

Mr Stoddart, in Australia for the Grand Prix, said today that OzJet would take on Virgin Blue and Qantas discount airline JetStar.

"We'll start off with about half a dozen aircraft, probably launching in about October," he told the Ten Network.

"We're hoping to get in just before Christmas."

OzJet would initially focus on the Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane markets and would most likely operate from suburban airports like Essendon and Moorabbin in Melbourne, Bankstown in Sydney and Archerfield in Brisbane.

"We are trying to serve a different niche market and I think it will work really well," Mr Stoddart said.

He first floated the plan in November last year and had talks then with Victorian Premier Steve Bracks.

A Victorian government spokesman today confirmed Mr Stoddart would be meeting state government officials in the next week to discuss his proposal.

"The government is aware of Mr Stoddart's proposal for an airline," he said.

"Mr Stoddart will be providing further information to the government."

NSW Premier Bob Carr welcomed the new airline but appeared to rule out using Bankstown airport for OzJet operations in Sydney.

"We all want the lower fares and boost to tourism that comes from more competition in the airline industry, but I think Bankstown has got legitimate fears about a build-up in jet activity," Mr Carr told the Ten Network.

Mr Stoddart said he didn't expect problems from residents near the suburban airports.

"I'm sure the people who live in the surrounding areas will adopt it very, very quickly," he said.

"You would hear more of a truck, a semi-trailer, with its airbrakes on than you would of a BA146 either landing or taking off, it's a simple fact of life."

The new airline would target fares at about $150, including taxes, and could create up to 1,000 jobs.

Melbourne-born Mr Stoddart has said he believes there is room for a cut-price airline in Australia modelled along the lines of European success stories Eurojet and Ryanair.

- AAP

============================================

[lame]

Hey Buster,

Don't forget KAH......... ;) :ok:

Best regards,

Lame.

[Wizofoz]

The one big problem I can see is that none of those airports has a precision approach. How many days per year is Bankstown or Morrabin un-landable due to fog or low cloud?

[Howard Hughes]

Wizofoz, could a precision approach be installed at these places?
If so at what cost?
This may still be as hell of a lot cheaper than the major airports.

Cheers, HH.

[Skyway]

How funny is that. The taxi way at YBAF at the moment is in dire need of refurbishment, rocks, pot holes, not to mention them being to narrow and the jet blast &*%^ing the edge of the taxi way. Oh yeah then there is the talk of the field being sub divided.

Good luck to the airline Paul. You may actually be able to get airport owners to pull there &&^*ing heads in.:eek:

[8 8th's Blue]

Short field ops at MB and BK would clearly be concerns not to mention other performance considereations like ASDA.But I just want to know how a 146 will slow down enough to be number 4 to the 3 c150's ahead in the circuit. Sounds ludicruos considering current infastructure at these airports?????

[Mr. Hat]

Good luck to him.

Do worry about solo students in the circuit with a jet tho.

146 quieter than a Navajo? Not the 146s I've heard.

[*Lancer*]

Secondary airports aside... There's a bigger issue here: ANOTHER LOW-COST ?!?!

How many times will companies proclaim there is a market for another airline only to go under 6 months down the track. It's only eroding the industry over time and continues to promote the false concept of unreasonable airfares that are simply not sustainable.

[Pinky the pilot]

*lancer*; You said it! Just how many airlines, low cost or otherwise can the population of Australia keep viable?
I have an uneasy feeling that this country has'nt seen the last of an unhappy event in commercial aviation.
I would be only too happy to be proved wrong but.......


You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Buster Hyman]

Lame.

No, I'll never forget KAH! Just don't think a 146 has THAT kind of short field performance!!;)

Where can we go from low cost? Easy. No cost. Jobs in aviation will become a "Work for the dole" scheme. Simple really.:bored:

[Wirraway]

Mon "Herald Sun"

Third cut-price airline to lift off
Leela de Kretser and John Masanauskas
March 8, 2004

ANOTHER cut-price airline creating hundreds of jobs will land in Victoria as early as October.

Formula One Minardi team boss Paul Stoddart plans to operate OzJet from Essendon and Moorabbin airports.

OzJet will compete with Virgin Blue and new Qantas carrier Jetstar in the discount travel market.

It will initially fly to Sydney and Brisbane, and Adelaide later.

OzJet's fares will be $149 one-way. Customers will be able to buy tickets over the internet, by phone or at the airport.

Melbourne-born Stoddart announced plans for the airline last November, but put the idea on hold pending details of Jetstar's routes and fares.

Jetstar will start flying on May 25. Its main Sydney and Brisbane services leave from Lindsay Fox's Avalon airport.

F1 Minardi cars carried OzJet sponsorship signs at the Grand Prix yesterday.

Speaking at the track, Mr Stoddart said OzJet would be a niche carrier.

"What we must not do is go head to head with Jetstar or Virgin Blue," he said.

"Yes, we may take some passengers from the big boys, but probably we will get more of the VFR traffic – people visiting friends and relatives."

Stoddart said the airline would have a very low-cost structure, based on RyanAir in Europe.

He said he wanted to avoid potential problems with residents living around the suburban airports to be used by OzJet.

"There could be noise issues or environmental issues. That's why we bought six BAe-146jets," Stoddart said.

"Air brakes being pulled on a semi-trailer on the Tullamarine Freeway would cause more noise than the whisper of a 146."

Stoddart has held talks with Moorabbin and Essendon airports and expects to use similar airports in other states.

"We're aiming for October, but that's subject to getting an operator's certificate," he said.

Last year, the Herald Sun exclusively revealed Stoddart's plan to launch another discount airline.

The former Coburg boy made $316 million from his UK-based aviation business in 2002.

The State Government has welcomed Stoddart's proposal.

Herald Sun

===========================================

[gameboy1971]

The Fed Govt will not approve Bankstown for the same reason as they refused Richmond for Jetstar. They are of the opinion, with a little help from ex Lib allstar Max the Axe, that Sydney does not need a second airport.

If you don't operate from 2ndary airports the 146 starts to look pretty unattractive in terms of economics.

[High Altitude]

What about the GPS approach? Not precision but gets you fairly low?

[89 steps to heaven]

If Ozjet was charged terminal fees at around $8/tonne, same a 'D' Towers, it would cost them around $313 to land at Archerfield. At Brisbane, it is around $209, both not including enroute charges which would be the same.

Can't see the economic win somehow.:confused:

[ferris]

89 steps.
The big cost is levied by the airport owner (landing fee)- not the air navigation charges (which are trifling in comparison).

[Dale Harris]

Obviously hasn't checked ASDA or TODA at MB recently........

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Is this the same Paul Stoddard who spends zillions on a Grand Prix racing team that never comes within cooee of a win.

Isn't it more important that he's the Paul Stoddart that's made hundreds of millions running European Aviation Air Charter.

Good luck to him if he can make a run of it.

[RaTa]

Not that you need to have the latest new jet to start a low cost airline............but it helps when it comes to reliability,fuel burn and passenger appeal.
I would have thought that the 146 was the wrong choice but time will tell!

[The Baron]

Gentlemen, just before anybody laughs so hard their false teeth fall out....
1. BN/Archerfield rwy 10L/28R 1481metres
ML/Essendon rwy 08/26 1921 metres
ML/Moorabin rwy 17L/35R 1335 metres
SY/Bankstown rwy 11C/29C 1415 metres
All these rwys with nice flat surrounds and significantly longer and more friendly than London City. I seem to remember leading up to the Sydney Olympics that Qantaslink looked at flying the 146 into BK to try and shift more pax, so it's not the first time the numbers have been crunched and found to be feasible.
2. Lots of fully depreciated parked 146's especially in Australia if you count the Ansett, Airlink East Coast and Southern birds. He says he has secured leases and I bet it was a pretty good deal.
3. Lots of Ansett, NJS and Southern Pilots either un-employed or pissed off with floating along on a sinking rudderless ship.
All fully endorsed and ready to work on the East Coast.
4. The Quietest airliner yet built (NOT COUNTING THE FLAPS) and able to operate into places like John Wayne Airport in the States where it won the protesters over.
So I think it just might work given the circumstances, although the private owners of these particular airports will make or break it. Archerfield has been quoted at $10 million to upgrade, so they will have to balance the cost against what they can charge so that it remains viable.

One more strange thing to consider...

Those of you who know Wazza know he is a real petrolhead and loves Grand Prix, and indeed motorsport in general. Would the fact they have announced this at the Melbourne F1 and using 146's be mere coincidence? :confused:

[Wirraway]

Tues "Herald Sun"

STODDART EYES MOTHBALLED ANSETT FLEET
Author: GEOFF EASDOWN


OZJET -- the start-up airline planned by Formula One entrepreneur Paul Stoddart -- will fly former Ansett aircraft. But the six BAe-146 jets he will buy have not flown since Ansett collapsed in March 2002.

The Herald Sun confirmed yesterday the Minardi team boss has his sights set on planes grounded at Melbourne's Essendon airport.

A source close to the Melbourne-based insolvency specialists Mark Mentha and Mark Korda said last night Stoddart had produced a "robust business plan" and was close to sealing the deal.

But his OzJet airline already has copped flak from federal authorities over plans for its $149 one-way fare for travellers flying from secondary airports.

Federal Transport Minister John Anderson yesterday shot down Stoddart's plan to operate from Sydney's Bankstown airport, Archerfield outside Brisbane and from Moorabbin as an alternative to Essendon.

"Getting one was not a matter of ticking the right boxes," the spokesman said.

"It involves being able to demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Canberra authorities that you have the necessary resources and expertise to run an airline safely. "

The high-wing BAe-146 can take off and land on short airstrips making it well suited to the smaller runways of the country's secondary airports. While purchase details were unavailable the old Ansett planes present something of a bargain given KordaMentha's difficulties trying to offload the old Ansett fleet.

Not only do they have 16 BAe-146s to quit, as well as an extensive inventory of spares and a 146 simulator, they also have a number of larger planes that were once valued at $350 million and are now worth between $100-$150 million.

Five of the BAe-146 planes at Essendon suffered structural damage after being blown about in a severe windstorm in September 2002.

The British-built planes had a chequered past while operating on regional routes in Western Australia with Ansett. They are regarded as a "dog" by many pilots for their slow performance, low operational ceiling and well known characteristic of emitting fumes into cabin areas.

Former Ansett chief Sir Peter Abeles bought 72 of the planes in an order estimated to be worth $2.1 billion -- the British factory's entire five year production run.

=========================================

[Buster Hyman]

I always get a warm glow about me when I think of Sir Peter "I'm a teapot" Abeles!:mad:

Let's hope the 2 clowns don't screw this deal up as well...if it ever happens!:hmm:

[Dale Harris]

Sorry Baron, I'm still laughing. Maybe you haven't been to Mb recently, but of more interest are the displaced thresholds, and more telling the supplementary TKOF distances that will be applicable.

[Al E. Vator]

Dale Harris...LCY is shorter than all three Aussie regional airports........and I think Stoddart has done the sums!

London City Airport
CODE: LCY
CITY: London
COUNTRY: UK

ELEVATION: 17 ft. RUNWAY INFORMATION
Orientation Length (ft) 10/28 3934 - (see noise level limits)
Width (ft) 98

The runway is constructed of concrete and is 1199 metres long by 30 metres wide with "starter" strips of 186 metres at the eastern end and 75 metres at the western end. To reduce the noise impact pilots are required to use the starter strips for take-offs. There are turning areas at both ends of the runway. The runway's elevation is 17 feet above mean sea level.

[The Baron]

I've been to MB once, and that was over 12 years ago. The point I make is that going on the numbers in Jepps, it is feasible. If they can spend $10 million and make AF suitable they could surely do the same at MB to one of the runways.
I think political interference will mean they'll end up in Victoria at either Essendon or Avalon. The 146 isn't my favourite aeroplane
but the pax always liked them and there is a window of opportunity here that Stoddart has grabbed.
What's in it for the owners of the Secondary fields? A BAe146-300 mtow is a shade over 46 tonnes. It takes quite a few lighties to raise the same landing charges and fees that the owners could recoup from only 1 movement. There is no other jet in the market that could go into these fields without making the upgrade of the facilities prohibitively expensive.
I reckon he's on a winner if Anderson doesn't snuff it out on politically motivated grounds.:ok:

[Dale Harris]

Never flown a 146 of course, but the current 2.2% STKOF distances are as follows, 35r 916mts, 35l 894 mts, 17r 982 mts and 17 l 1034 mts. Really no possibility of longer runways there now, but if a 146 can get in and out of those lengths with a useful load, then I wish him all the best. 35 R and 17L are the only runways available at night that have any length. No papi, vasi, t-vasi or anything else. 2 good gps NPA's tho........ LIke I said, if the a/c can make it work with those lengths and a decent load then good on him.

[Wirraway]

news.com.au

Quiet Ozjet diverts flights to avoid mainline airlines

NEW low-cost airline contender Ozjet says it aims to serve a niche market from secondary airports and wants to avoid a head-to-head confrontation with Qantas, Virgin Blue and Jetstar.

Backed by Formula One millionaire Paul Stoddart, the airline has already bought three ex-Ansett BAe 146-300 jets and hopes to start service with six 100-seat aircraft to secondary airports in the fourth quarter, possibly October.

It ultimately wants to fly 10 of the four-engined aircraft between secondary airports in major cities, charging fully flexible single fares of $149.

"We have too much respect for airlines like Qantas to want to go head-to-head with them in any sort of price war," Mr Stoddart said.

But aviation experts and competitors are sceptical about the airline's prospects, its choice of planes and whether the European and US systems of flying from secondary airports will work here. And they believe Ozjet faces a difficult battle convincing residents around the secondary airports to accept jet services.

Virgin Blue yesterday upped the ante by revealing it would also demand access to secondary airports if Ozjet got permission to operate from them.

"If the governments are willing to allow jet services into secondary airports such as Essendon, Virgin Blue would like to review the matter as soon as possible," Virgin spokesman David Huttner said.

Ozjet chief executive Peter Schott, an MBA-qualified commercial pilot, said Ozjet had been talking extensively with "three or four airports" and had a couple of in-principle agreements. Asked how he would get past resident objections to jet services, Mr Schott said the airline had deliberately picked the BAe 146, dubbed the whisper jet, because it was the world's quietest aircraft.

California's "John Wayne Airport in the US is probably the world's most noise -sensitive airport and the whisper jet is the only aircraft that has been approved to operate in and out of that airport", he said.

"It also operates out of London City Airport, and London City has an unbelievable population around it. Again, the 146 is the only aircraft that can go in and out of there. "

Mr Schott said Ozjet would prefer to be headquartered in Melbourne but was looking at offers from other governments. He also indicated it was dealing with outside backers interested in investing in the company.

===========================================

Tues "Courier Mail"

OzJet to target suburban airfield
Peter Morley
09mar04

PROPOSED discount airline OzJet wants to fly BAe-146 jet aircraft into Archerfield Aerodrome in Brisbane's south west.

Use of the four-engined planes was discussed in exploratory talks last week involving OzJet promoters and the Archerfield Airport Corporation, a privately owned company with a 99 year lease on the aerodrome.

OzJet is the brainchild of Australian businessman and Formula One Minardi team boss Paul Stoddart who made more than $300 million from his UK-based aviation business in 2002.

He has bought six BAe-146s for the airline he hopes will be operating Brisbane-Sydney-Melbourne by Christmas before expanding to Adelaide. He chose the plane to minimise noise and environmental issues.

Archerfield Corp general manager Richard Kent said OzJet last week "tossed around a few ideas" about flying into Archerfield and using the BAes, the biggest passenger jet the 1480m strip could handle.

He said the corporation would have to consider what outlays were required and whether there would be "community concerns about noise and all that type of stuff."

"Basically we need to know a bit more about what is planned – a business plan and things like that before we can make any decisions, " Mr Kent said. "There could be some pretty serious costs involved, especially if the runway needs to be strengthened.

"Heavier aircraft like the BAe could land on it now. But if you kept using it, it would begin to fail."

Archerfield handles about 150,000 light aircraft movements a year – about the same as Brisbane Airport which is further from the CBD.

Taxi companies said yesterday it would be about $4 cheaper to travel to Archerfield although Brisbane Airport has the advantage of a train service.

Mr Kent said jet operations into Archerfield might affect the suburbs of Oxley in the west and Sunnybank Hills, east of the runway.

If OzJet does use Archerfield, the corporation would have to get Federal Government approval if it plans improvements of more than $10 million.

Federal Labor MP Bernie Ripoll, who represents Oxley, said he was aware of OzJet's interest.

"Before the Federal Government made any decision, it would have to consult the community and I would have to be convinced that there would be no noise problems and that the operation would bring jobs," he said.

Melbourne born Mr Stoddart said the airline would have a low cost structure based on the hugely successful European based Ryan-Air.

It would not go head to head with other cut-price rivals – Virgin Blue and JetStar – but find another niche known as VFR – people visiting relatives and friends.

JetStar, which begins operating in May, also spoke publicly about flying into Archerfield. But Mr Kent said the runway could not accommodate the type of plane the airline would fly.

=============================================

[Zero_au]

I flew the 146 about 9 years ago and have about 1400 Command hours on them. I have been told by a friend working in the Ansett hanger at Tulla, that the A/C were bought for less than $12M-TOTAL! The particular A/C are all ex EastWest Airlines 300 series, and were full EFIS and FMS fitted with 96 pax seats including 8 Bus Class seats. The fume problems were mostly caused by overfilling of the APU oil on turnarounds-it is a critical op to do. The Sim is still used quite regularly, and in fact I was looking at it last week while being stimulated in a nearby box!! The A/C should not have any performance problems from the airports talked about so far. The aircrew pay will be similar to Jetstar rates and you will require an endoresment to apply. They are also looking at a night freight operation as well. I wish him lots of of luck and feel that it could do very well.:ok: :ok:

[Air Ace]

Zero - I think you are on the money! :ok:

I've been watching this thread and some of the "expert opinions" with great interest. The guy has a successful record in commercial aviation and the secondary airports all service large population catchments.

And, offered long term airline contracts, the secondary airport owners would quickly find the cash to upgrade for the 146. Indeed, if they don't upgrade and attract additional business and income, I suspect they have a very limited future.

I think he's right - he could create a lucrative niche market there for his sensible very low capital cost operation. :ok:

[allrounder]

Zero - great input! At least some positive thoughts.

I thought 146 ops in Oz were over but this may be a welcomed boost. Yep - the 146 may not have the climb performance of other jets but short field it's pretty good.

:) :ok:

[404 Titan]

California's "John Wayne Airport in the US is probably the world's most noise -sensitive airport and the whisper jet is the only aircraft that has been approved to operate in and out of that airport", he said.
Really, that's interesting because my wife only flew out of that airport two weeks ago for Northern California and it was in a B737.

While the whole idea of Ozjet sounds good on paper I believe the biggest hurdle they are going to have is residents around the airports. They, I believe will be the death nail to the Ozjet proposal.

[ground-run]

Good post Zero but I think you over-simplify the fume problem. If only it were a case of over servicing! I worked for 12 years maintaining 146's and the problems we had with fumes were usually caused by degraded oil seals within the APU and/or to problems keeping the APU bay adequately sealed off from the intake plenum. Having said that, it'll be good to see these a/c back in the air so good luck to them.

[fruitloop]

ground-run
Personally I think that once the apu bay was "vented" the probs diminished and if the bean-counters put the "cats"back it could have made it a better system.I hope it works out for stoddy for all concerned.

[farqueue]

If this does go ahead, ASA will have the pressure on them to put fire and rescue back. Good news for Trident I guess.

The other detail, is that no low cost airline that has started up with 146s has survived.

[spagiola]

California's "John Wayne Airport in the US is probably the world's most noise -sensitive airport and the whisper jet is the only aircraft that has been approved to operate in and out of that airport", he said.
As someone has already pointed out, this is wrong. Many other jet types can and do operate from SNA all the time. What is true is that, when the 146s were introduced at SNA, they were cleared to fly an un-limited number of movements. All other types available at the time has strict limits on the number of movements allowed on any given day and equally strict noise abatement rules, which often imposed severe payload penalties, particularly on hot days.

[*Lancer*]

Is the Australian public (and more importantly the Sydney public) smart enough to realise how quiet the 146 is? They're more likely to hear the word 'jet' and it will all fall in a heap. Without the government support to approve and upgrade (no small task) the airports to 'jet' RPT standards, the airline will be dead in the water.

[Dale Harris]

Unfortunately it seems that the sooks have already won one round. According to the Melbourne Herald Sun :yuk: this morning, Essendon Airport management have put the stops to his efforts to operate out of there.........