Home PC - build or buy?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Hello,

I have about £1,100 burning a hole in my back pocket and I was thinking about purchasing a new desktop PC.

A friend of mine is a techy with IBM and advocates building your own using quality components. He will do the job for me for £50.

Do people think that this is a good idea or a bad idea or maybe indifferent?

It does seem that you can get a better spec by self building but as ever comparing exact specs is difficult and how do you price a warranty etc?

The machine would be used for downloading/copying various media, I'd like it to handle Doom3 very well and also use it as a spare TV and a digital video recorder so I can bung out my tired looking VHS. A bigish screen would therefore be good and as its going in living space then it would be nice if it were quiet.

The products on offer at www.meshcomputers.com consistently catch my eye - anybody any experience of them?

Cheers

WWW

[digidave]

Hi WWW,

I've got two Mesh machines sitting here, no problems with either.

The first is about 3 years old, 1Gig Athlon and the second, bought in first week of Jan, is currently advertised as the M2800+ XL.

I was going to build a computer up, but in the end the savings are so small and the hassles can be so big that I decided not to bother. Got them out of the boxes, plugged them in and turned them on - sorted.

Good luck with your hunt.
dd

[fobotcso]

An alternative view, WWW.

I've built two this winter both using a large number of existing "bits" such as monitors, keyboards, mice, HDDs and sound cards. Floppy drives went deep storage; one USB FDD is all that's needed now. Don't shy away from the task; it's really getting easier as time goes by.

Machine A is a low-range ShuttleX with bits from Overclockers and cost £350-400. (Spare me getting out the invoices to be precise!). I like the small footprint and low noise once I got a grip on the fan speeds. Powerful BIOS gives lots of flexibility. Excellent instructions may mean you'll be wasting £50 if you let your IBM chum make it and you'll deprive youself of the fun.

Machine B is a high-range Abit MoBo in a fancy case with a new Hercules graphics card that alone cost as much as the ShuttleX complete. (I do a lot of Graphics/Digital video stuff). Extra cost incurred also for the DVD-RW and the two SATA 120GB HDDs that may get "RAIDed" when I'm ready. Again, no floppy but the old DVD-R/CD-RW drive gives capability for DVD/CD copying when required and possible. Same comment about instructions; excellent. Everything provided down to the last screw.

You can't save by using old RAM. Get a good MoBo and Processor and accept that you are going to need at least 512MB but 1GB would be better.

"Future-proof" it with leading edge spec components and it'll last you 3-5 years.

But then there's the new Operating System and Applications to run on it.... They're going to have to be up to the standard of the Hardware.

At least you get some of those in the shop model.

Overall? Go for it. fobs

[goates]

If you're up for the task, building is fun and rewarding. Plus you will learn more about your computer that way. The other side is that you, or the person that built it, are on the hook if something goes wrong. You will get exactly what you want though, and will know exactly what went into the computer, unlike many companies such as HP/Compaq or Sony.

With someone like Dell, you can get a computer for about the same price, at least here in Canada (this may be different in the UK and Europe), but with a 3 to 4 year warranty. They also tend to include bundled software for cheaper than what you would pay on your own. This isn't a problem if you already have the software, unless you want to keep using your existing computer.

I built my own computer and continue to play with it and add new things or try something different. For my family though, I always recommend that they buy from Dell.

As for playing Doom 3, you might want to wait until it comes out before deciding what to buy. Rumours have it that it can bring current top of the line video cards to their knees, and there are new generations of video cards from both nVidia and ATI coming out soon.

If you do decide to build, fire away with the questions and we will do our best to help. Good luck!

goates

[ratsarrse]

I can heartily recommend building your own PC - you get exactly what you want. You tend to get a lot of tat with the ready-made PCs which ultimately you do pay for - I'm thinking of the crappy bundled software here.

The other advantage is that you can reuse a lot of bits - floppy drives, cables, monitor, keyboard etc. I spend about £300 every couple of years and get a new PC to all intents and purposes. If you focus your spending on a decent m/board, memory and processor that's about all you need if you're happy with your existing monitor etc. I still have a GeForce 2 graphics card which peforms pretty well despite all the hype about the latest greatest cards. I think I will have to consider a new one for Half Life 2 and Doom 3 if they ever make it onto the shelves.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Wee Weasley Welshman,

I am sure you could have guessed before posting, what the reply was going to be from this forum. :eek:

When you have the option and the skills, a friend with the skills, or just want to learn, building your own computer is always the way to go.

If you tell us what you would like to do with the comp, we could recommend parts. :ok:

Take Care,

Richard

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Wee Weasley Welshman,

Just another thought, you will never fund something like this in a Dell: (Now this is one of the wildest heatsinks I have seen)

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/35-103-141-03.JPG

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/35-103-141-02.JPG

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/35-103-141-01.JPG

The blower housing resembles a jet engine, especially with the bright LED lights placed on the front and the rear of the blower.

Take Care,

Richard

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Thanks for the views. I have decided to leave it for approx 3 months time when the 64bit processors have become established and lost some of their price tag. At that point it should be clearer just what is going to be needed to run Doom3 at full pelt. :E

Which I suppose gives me plenty of time to research components. The trickiest and most expensive being the monitor - anyone any strong views on large TFT monitors (17 or 19 inch)? IBM friend is a Viewsonic fan and another mate swears by the latest LG offerings...

Another thought occurs out of the blue... If I am needing some components would it not be entirely feasible to pop over to the US for a short holiday and acquire them there? Say the TFT screen, the Motherboard and the Memory? Saving a packet at £1.90 / £1 and forgetting to inform Cusoms etc.

Cheers

WWW

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Wee Weasley Welshman,

If you like, I can collect the parts for you, and have them for your next trip to the U.S.

The easiest is getting Mobo, CPU, RAM, HD, and DVD+/-RW, since you can just about fit all of them in the Mobo Box. (The Optical Drive might not fit.) Monitor and Case are usually what I tell people to buy where they live since they are bulky.

Take Care,

Richard

[goates]

Something to note about LCD monitors is that there are only 2 or 3 companies that make the actual screens. Everyone else just buys one of these and puts their own badge on it. The best thing to do would be to go and look at some in a store and do some research into the ones you like. For games you will want a monitor with a 16ms response rate, otherwise you will see smearing in games like Doom. It should also come with a DVI connector, otherwise there will be some loss in quality. I've heard good things about both Viewsonic and Dell LCD monitors. NEC and LG also come up often as better ones to look at.

goates

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Wee Weasley Welshman,

Oops, forgot to mention Vid Card on that list. Since you are looking for a Doom III Frag Fest, you might be interested in:

Nvidia confirms Doom III is its baby (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14459)

ID Software has struck a deal with Nvidia to bundle Doom III with the NV40. It should be on the shelves April 15th. ;)

goates is right on. You want a 16ms response time on the Monitor if you go LCD. But why mess with a 19 to 20" Monitor when you could have:

Westinghouse W33001 30" Widescreen LCD Flat Panel HD-Ready TV (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000UXOK8/103-0666427-4603059)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000UXOK8.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

30-inch widescreen LCD TV with DVI input and 500:1 contrast ratio

1,280 x 768 native resolution; HDTV-ready, Dual NTSC tuners

480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i compatible, 16 ms response

You can run your PC (640 x 480, 800 x 600, 1024 x 768, 1280 x 768, 1280 x 1024), with DVI inputs. It will PiP with dual tuners and even let you PiP your comp screen too. (It has a total of 7 Video Inputs.) :ok:

Take Care,

Richard

[goates]

Richard,

On the topic of forgetting things, you left out the price of that great looking TV. ;)

goates

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

goates,

I did not forget to omit the price. ;)

Richard

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Wee Weasley Welshman,

If you are thinking of going with an Athlon64, the AMD Roadmap shows that there will be a form factor change in the near future. They are going from the Socket 764 to the Socket 939.

AT News Update: Athlon 64 name revisions (http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1985)

I still think the best option for now is the AthlonXP 2500+ on an nForce2 Ultra400 Motherboard. The ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe is an excellent motherboard with:


SATA RAID
Dolby Digital SoundStorm
USB 2.0
Firewire
Dual Gigabit LAN
WiFi@Home


And when paired with the 2500+ is under $200.00 for both CPU and Mobo. It is an excellent value that will last you for a long time, and easy to upgrade to the Athlon64 Socket 939 when the time comes. (Just change the mobo and CPU and you are set.)

Take Care,

Richard

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Speechless Two,

The real test of an LCD is scrolling a lot of text. If it blurs and gives you a headache, then the response time is too slow. I try to get monitors with a 16ms response time. It really makes a difference.

Take Care,

Richard

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Speechless Two,

I wonder why yellows give it a problem? (I have not seen the monitor before.)

Take Care,

Richard

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Speechless Two,

Xbit has 5 new Samsung monitors in their labs for a review.

One of the monitors to be reviewed was quite a unique thing for our test lab as we haven't yet encountered a monitor with a pixel response time of 12msec. You will also see three monitors with an integrated TV-tuner today - we have rarely met them before. We have no ready testing methodology for TV-tuners, so I will only inform you about the functionality of these monitors and test them as usual.

How does a 12ms response time sound to you.

SyncMaster 172X is one of the most anticipated monitors from Samsung. This is the first company's monitor with a specified response time of less than 25msec. Moreover, "less than 25msec" means 12msec here rather than the already usual 16msec! And this is the full response time!


The full review is here:

New LCD Monitors from Samsung: Roundup of 5 New Models (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/samsung.html)

Take Care,

Richard

[Saab Dastard]

WWW,

<2p>

If you want to learn about PCs in infuriating detail - build your own. There really is no substitute for the learning experience, both researching and building (I learnt about compatibility from that!)

If you want to get the absolute best of breed components - build it yourself.

If you have particular requirements (super fast, super small, super quiet etc.) - build it yourself.

But if you just want to use a computer as a general-purpose PC, you are probably better off buying a complete system, as the bulk manufacturers can source hardware and software much more cheaply than individuals and can give you (IMHO) more bang per buck than buying your own bits.

Now if you are going Linux, and don't have to pay for M$, it gets more interesting!

</2p>

SD

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Saab Dastard,

But if you put, getting most of the parts in the U.S. into the mix, it will be a lot cheaper than what the bulk manufacturers offer in the U.K. :ok:

Take Care,

Richard

[Capt. Horatio Slappy !!]

Hello,

Someone mentioned a CPU form factor change as a good reason to hold off buying components.
That's not the only good reason, do a google search on:
" MINI PCI Express "
The old PCI slots are going to leave us very soon to be replaced with the above, important for many reasons , not the least of which is speed or bandwidth increases using the new mini PCI format but also the old AGP slot ( for grafics cards is going to be dumped in favour of the new Mini PCI express video card format.) I read somewhere that mini PCI Express will have up to 8 x more bandwidth for your video card than the current 8 x AGP ports on current motherboards.
In fact I heard rumour that ATI and nVidia both have stopped supporting further development of AGP based video cards.
Now to the 64 bit argument:
Reading the system tests result for the Intel P4 3.2 Ghz EE chip ( Yes I know they are awful proud of their stuff at just under a grand a CPU )
versus the AMD 64 bit Cpu architecture, the Intel 32 bit P4 ( EE ) beats the AMD in about every benchmarkiing test.
This is important why ?
Keep yer eye on motherboards, when the new mini PCI express comes out and AMD front their latest and gratest along with Intel's new 64 bit chip you should see an almost 50 percent drop in the cost of Intel's current powerhouse the Pentium 4 3.2 Ghz EE ( 800 Front Side Bus ) Job.
My advice ?
Get the new Mini PCI express mobo that supports Intel CPU's when they come out, I recommend ASUS, go buy a gig of the fastest RAM you can find , buy the INTEL 3.2 GHz EE chip and then when you saved up enough grab one of the new mini PCI Express Video cards.
DOOM you say ?
The machine above should be able to run 5 simultaneous Mars missions and give you a tickle in yer shorts while you blast DOOM's aliens in full glorious nVidia or ATI technicolor with a belt-fed, rocket assisted lazer-sabre on your new homebuilt Intel powered machine.

I think therefore I must have been.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I've stopped waving, now I'm drowning - but thanks.

WWW

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Capt. Horatio Slappy !!

Not sure which Benchmarks you are looking at? From what I see, an Athlon64 running 1Ghz slower than the so called Extreme Edition, runs every bit as fast with software that is not even 64bit yet and on drivers that have not had a chance to mature.

Athlon64 3400+: Part 2 (http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1946)

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. Wee Weasley Welshman, sorry we have gone O.T. For the money I still think that you should go with an AthlonXP for now. It is more than fast enough and will give you great value over its life. When you decide to go for it. I will do what I can to help you acquire the parts on this end of the pond.