QF's gap between 50-125 seat Turboprop/Jet

[jokeStar]

So what is the likely aircraft to fill the gap from the Qantas Link Q300's to the 717's? They (717's) will be all gone sometime in 2005, then it will be the 737 (QF) then A320's (JQ) as the next step up. The 146 is near extinct on the East Coast as well.

Does anyone with insider contacts know what QF management are thinking? I have heard Embraer 170 and Bombardier CRJ700 as likely contenders in the crew rooms.

Any idea's? :hmm:

[Airspeed Ambassador]

NJS are in discussions with QF re a replacement for the 146. My guess is, we will see the Embraer 170/190 in Oz in a couple of years time (still a few years to run on the remaining 146 leases).
The 170/190 would seem to be the best choice for some of the 'long thin' routes in the QF regional network.

PS As a side note, I read in Flight International that the Dutch holding company "Rekkof" is still trying to put the Fokker 70/100 back into production! Rekkof website (http://www.rekkof.nl/)

AA

[Hugh Jarse]

A couple of Dash-8 400's on "evaluation":E I reckon that's a reasonable bet, among others....

[Woomera]

Hugh. Are the -100, -200, -300 and -400 all one common type endorsement?

I see the Q400 has "new engines, avionics and systems, a modified wing and stretched fuselage (and) is essentially an all new aeroplane."

Two 3410kW (4573shp) takeoff rated Pratt & Whitney Canada PW150A turboprops gives 350 kts cruise at 95% power and 25,000 feet.

Big improvement from the original -100, eh? :}

[Night Watch]

The Dash 8-400 would have to be the perfect aircraft for SY-CB-SY flights. Eastern currently fills the -300 to the roof on this sector.

Just a matter of convincing the public/politicians that a turbo-prop is just as safe, and in this case just as fast, as a jet.

[jokeStar]

Hugh, not sure how to read into "evaluation" with management. Have heard stories of Bombardier 'busting their balls' even offering the Q400 at same or near same price as a Q300 to QF Link just to GET the type in the roo colours down under.

Putting out the RFP last year for 50-70 seaters to Bombardier/ATR means (one would think) that they are not discounting 70 seats as a turboprop. Im sure a few hundred drivers in EAA/SS would hope they take advantage of the good AUD and take up an order with them.

SYD-CFS, SYD-CBR, CBR-MEL, BNE-ROK, BNE-MKY, CNS-HTI, CNS-WEI, CNS-TSV surely could use a high performance 70 seater.

Time will tell. :hmm:

[Yawn]

The -Q400 is not a common type rating and even recurrent training cannot be done in the "old" sim. The cockpit is more CRJ than Dash 8.

I thought the power output was more like 5100 shp and on legs up to 350nm the aircraft is faster than a 737 classic.

Horizon Airlines (USA) use them with great success, flyBE have stated that they will move away from the 146 and CRJ to an all Q400 fleet.

Overall an impressive aircraft which would be made more logical if a simulator and low cost pilot training options where included in the inital sales pitch.

[Capt Claret]

Is there any other choice than the EMB170/190?

I did hear that the Avro RJX was a hot contender until the program was scrapped. Scrapping was allegedly due to non performance of the new engine and Sept 11, allegedly, gave BAe an easy way out. INteresting to know if this is true. :hmm:

[jokeStar]

Folks, I have found the answers to my questions.

Embraer are bringing the 170 out to Australia in 4 weeks time for a demo with QF. Management are going to go over it with a fine tooth comb this time around. Bombardier (if your reading this) if they had any brains to counter-act this would bring out a Q400 or CRJ700 or both in the very near future.

Where did I get this info from? The Evil Empire. Stay tuned peoples. The 50-125 seat gap issue may be solved within the next 6-12 months. :ok:

[spinout]

With the evil empire convinced that only one aircraft type per company, Eastern and Sunstate better hope it’s the Dash 8 400, my guess it will be, as we all know the bean counters run the empire, it’s the cheapest option and from a lot of the pax I have spoken to they like the Dash, they get better service for one!
I also think you will see a Canberra Base for Eastern using the Dash 8 400 and don’t be surprised to see Sunstate and Eastern all rolled up into one soon….

[Airspeed Ambassador]

The 50-125 seat gap issue may be solved within the next 6-12 months.

In that case jokeStar you had better get your application into National Jet quick smart!:p

Once this whole Jetstar/Impulse controversy blows over, the next big dust up will be over who gets the regional jets. Will it be a brand new operation? Or perhaps an existing regional or contractor will get the gig. If my understanding of QF's attitude towards its regionals even remotely reflects the truth, my money would be on a new separate operation or National Jet. I don't say this to stir things up, but if QF's performance with Jetstar is any indication, cheapest will win the day. So jokestar when QF asks your pilot reps how much you are prepared to fly their jets for, what will you say?

Good luck to all the players.

[jokeStar]

AA, mate would love to say 'surely you jest' regarding NJS, but you're probably right. Knowing management, they would get them to crew it, if it ever eventuated. Proven jet operator etc.

And with regard to the pilot reps? I think there are some with in EAA/SS who have everyones interests at best, but there are also 'known' individuals who are trying to undermine others with certain other issues at present. So not a lot of trust being promoted thats for sure. Time will tell.

jetStar have set a precedent regarding lower wages, so I dare say management will run with that now.

You give em an inch, and they will take a mile. :rolleyes:

[Chocks Away]

Yawn,
I think you will find the Q400 IS a common type rating and is a 2 day course for Pilots and 5 days for Gingerbeers.

Most systems & switches were kept readily indentifiable with the previous models, for this very reason. Granted that much of the technology behind them has changed though, being a "common type" keeps it as a strong marketing tool.

[Shagtastic]

An ex-SAS Dash8-400 has already done a tour of Australia some time ago I belive. It sits on the far side of Exeter Airport in the UK gathering dust and was spruced up for a marketing trip downunder.

It does 370 TAS at FL200, is a common type rating with a differences course and 2 days in the sim. Handles absolutely nothing like the 200/300 model though!! 7,000 thermal shp derated down to 5200 shp per side etc etc.

From a business point of veiw they appear to make money and are comfortable to fly in.

[jokeStar]

This subject has been a little quiet.

Sources from within are leaking info that the 70 seater isn't too far away at all now.

With the 717 pulling out of Mt Isa next week, and only offering a single mainline 734 service at the wrong time of day, this is a temporary band aid until they can get the right equipment on the run.

Also the Mackay/Rockhampton situation doesn't look too good for Jetstar. Forward bookings are very shy. Travelling public want frequency at the right times of the day. Virgin are laughing all the way to the bank.

There hasn't been a lot of concrete evidence so far to support what i'm about to say, but if what most people are hearing is correct from 'inside', the QLD part of Qantas Link look like to be given the opportunity to crew the beasts, as the network being suggested is in their own backyards. :ok:

[Capt Fathom]

Yes jokeStar. They have made a mess of schedules to several regional centers. Maybe Sunnies, given the right equipment, can make a go of it. They have certainly been supressed by their master in the past.

[apacau]

Add to that some CBR routes, which could do with a frequency increase.

Read BNE-CBR reduced from 6 to 4 a day once the 146s went and the current 2x daily CBR-ADL. CBR-MEL Dash 8s in the middle fo the day could also be replaced with a RJ, as could some peak Dash 8s and 737s on CBR-SYD.

[cunninglinguist]

Oh thats funny, up until a year or so ago, the " QLD " part of Q/Link that operated jets was NJS for the previous 10 years.
Bases in CNS, MKY, ROK, BNE and CBR.

[Southern handler]

been told at CBR that extra 73 flights to MEL, BNE, SYD by years end. Hopefully get rid of a couple of Dh3's flights to get some more 50 seater flights to some other regional centres

[apacau]

edit post - I misread above post.

I read "73" to be seventy-three and not 737 :\

[Southern handler]

oops try "737"

Cheers

[OZ Junglejet]

Any update on NJS's purchase/lease of the big Junglejet?