'Cattle class' Jetstar plan

[Wirraway]

news.com.au

'Cattle class' Jetstar plan
By DANNY ROSE
March 1, 2004

THE introduction of much-hyped Qantas spin-off Jetstar will be a disaster for Tasmania, says a top travel agent.

Hobart travel agent Andrew Jones says the state's travellers -- especially those in business -- will be left stranded when Australia's new cut-price airline starts winging in from May 25.

State director of the Australian Federation of Travel Agents, Mr Jones hit out at parent company Qantas yesterday.

He warned that:

Jetstar would see Tasmania inconvenienced like no other state, as travellers would face long drives across Melbourne with their baggage to catch connecting flights.

Qantas would slash the number of its flights to Tasmania -- cutting use of its popular Frequent Flyer rewards scheme -- once Jetstar arrived.

And, Mr Jones said, if Qantas' remaining handful of flights proved unprofitable then Australia's biggest airline could pull out of Tasmania altogether within months.
His claim of inconvenience was backed by Liberal senator Guy Barnett who said his office had been flooded with complaints over Jetstar's "cattle class" conditions.

"We could be left with no full-service airline," Mr Jones said.

"It's not so much what Jetstar are offering us, it's what Qantas are taking away.

"No state has been neglected by Qantas as much as Tasmania has been in this ... we're being treated like secon-class citizens."

Qantas' flights into Hobart alone will be reduced from nine a day to two under Jetstar, and Jetstar flights will fill the gap.

Mr Jones said this would bring cheaper air fares but it would also hit business travellers hard and rule out many services and cost-effective measures that passengers now took for granted.

He said interstate airports would be left with many more Qantas flights, and Tasmania's island status made it particularly vulnerable to the move.

Mr Jones said Qantas' only flights from Hobart to Melbourne were scheduled at 8.40am and 4.40pm.

He said business travellers sought daybreak flights, and their only choice would be to catch the earliest flights on Jetstar or its cut-price rival Virgin Blue.

"Many people have relocated here who need to regularly commute to Sydney to do business," Mr Jones said.

"And they are not going to travel on the flights left on Qantas due to their totally impractical times."

He said Jetstar's use of Avalon airport for some flights would also cause problems, especially for the elderly or those with a disability.

Passengers using connecting Jetstar flights to Sydney or Brisbane must drive from Jetstar's Tasmanian terminus in Melbourne -- Tullamarine Airport -- 55km to Avalon.

And baggage will need to be checked in again.

Senator Barnett urged Jetstar and Qantas to review their plans because elderly and disabled people and families were angry.

He said a public meeting would be staged at Launceston's Dohertys Hotel on Friday from 12.30pm and Jetstar officials had been invited to attend.

The meeting also will discuss Australia's new air safety procedures in the wake of a "near miss" between a Virgin Blue commercial flight and a light plane near Launceston.

A Qantas spokesman said yesterday Jetstar would increase Tasmania's flight capacity by 25 per cent and a "majority" of Tasmanian Jetstar passengers connecting to interstate Jetstar flights would have their baggage automatically checked in.

The Mercury

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[MoFo]

And....
The two QF flights per day are scheduled to be an all economy aircraft, 737-300.

It appears people from/to Tasmania don't deserve the choice of Business class or economy. I wonder how the suits will like that when off to Tassie on business.

Theres a niche market for someone to grab.

[Buster Hyman]

I wonder if they would've been better off with the KD CRJ's???

[Capn Bloggs]

How about this for an idea. Give 3 146s to Southern and they can operate from MEL to TAS and other ad-hoc northen services when and as required. I even know where there are 2 white tail 146s just waiting, ready to go!

Buster, those jet-powered Dash 8s are nothing more than a kiddie car!

[Clive]

Finally a backlash from the customer.... I was wondering how long it would take. Some important considerations for these low fare airlines......

In its most basic form the air transport sector can best be described as "a service industry providing a service to transport people and goods from where they are to where they want to be - now an essential service in a globalized world" (Shearman, P., 1998, UK: City University Press). To be truly successful in this endeavour airlines must provide a quality service that has at least a perceived value to customers which leads to customer satisfaction and loyalty.

Once a customer's perception of value is met a sale will normally result. Importantly here, price is not always the driver of perceived value (the reason QF full service offering is well patronised). This however is just the beginning... "the sale merely consummates the courtship, then the marriage begins" (Levitt, 1986., The marketing imagination, USA: Free Press).

The need for a business to retain its existing customers is paramount. Studies by Reicheld and Sasser in 1990 and published in the Harvard Business Review show that reducing customer defection by a mere 5% can improve profits by 85%.

So my point...... low prices (regardless of cost base) will not ensure success in this economic minefield called The Aviation Industry. The graveyard of those who have come and gone in the US industry at least partly supports this premise. The current players, and players of the future, would be wise to start asking customers what they really want.

To an economist price is a mechanism to bring supply and demand into balance given a particular level of output. To a vast marjority of customers (particularly high yield customers) price is just an important part of the marketing mix, along with product design (Reavill, L., 1999. Air Transport Management. UK: City University Press).

[Southern handler]

lets remember that HBA have not had any j class for at least a couple of years. and the 733's will be gone I think by the end of the year. All the QF club members will still get access into lounges they just wont earn the point. QF have got a hell of a lot of seats from QF over the last few years

[Buster Hyman]

Couldn't agree more Cap'n. They look nice from a distance, but I just don't enjoy crawling to my seat...bit like the Metro!:\

[P47]

Capn Bloggs,(with no disrespect intended to the Southern boys) isn't Aviation better off without those festering gas chambers that the industry refuses to fix ? To suggest they be reintroduced ...... well, you worry me. Surely you can't compare a CRJ to a fumebox. Obviously you haven't either flown one or flown in one.

[HOBAY 3]

There are some J class flights on HBA-MEL, but only on the peak day of business- SATURDAY!!!

I don't know who designed the JQ schedules but I think I could have done it 100 times better with pen and paper, let alone using some of those fancy computer programs! There is a huge gap in the middle of the day for flights MEL-HBA (about 5 hours or so), and in this time, all the MEL-OOL flights are stacked in!!! Why not spread it out a bit???

When QF pulled out of HBA they only did 4 services per day to MEL. Now, the market has grown and they do 9. Surely J class is more viable now if at least 4 QF flights were put on per day to give business people a choice of flight times- 2 in the morning, 2 in the evening. This would leave JQ to operate 5 or 6 flights which would be plenty.

I think with JQ using AVV, that HBA-SYD frequency needs to be beefed up, as it will be so inconvenient to connect via MEL. Maybe take off a MEL and increase SYD to 4, and put those 4 on at decent times. From 21 July, the SYD-HBA schedule is 3 flights/day (2xJQ,1xQF) at 11:35 (QF), 12:50 (JQ), 21:15 (JQ). I can really see the Business people lining up for them!!! Meanwhile, SYD-OOL gets flights at 17:25, 17:55, 18:15 (QF), 18:50 and 20:00. Where is the fairness in that!!!


:*

[Q-Tee]

fairness???

What are you on about? Qf is a business, the end responsibility of QF is to make a return to it's shareholders. Withoutn that, QF loses investors, and therefore the ability to finance it's operations.

Simple as that.

If QF thought they could make a decent return to shareholders by supplying a full-service two class config to Tasmania, or a more frequent schedule ....... dont you think they would do it? They have obviously researched, and come to the conclusion that the market is not there for that type/ frequency of service.


If the market to make a profit on a two-class config to Tassie was there, then QF would do it. It isnt. QF will (I am sure) re-evaluate the decision on an ongoing basis, and if there develops and apporpriate market for a two-class domestic service to Tassie, they will introduce it.

What do you expect? That QF will run a service at a loss to Tassie cos it's 'the nice thing to do' ???? We are a business, and have to act as one.:rolleyes:

[Wirraway]

Wed "The Australian"

Low fares boost tourism
By Steve Creedy
March 03, 2004

THE first skirmish between Jetstar and Virgin Blue will deliver a $40 million bonus to domestic tourist operators, according to lobby group TTF Australia.

TTF Australia managing director Chris Brown said yesterday the 200,000 $29 one-way fares from Virgin Blue and 100,000 from Jetstar had stimulated domestic travel.

"On average, Australians spend $537 when they go on a domestic trip," he said.

"Even if we conservatively say that just 75,000 consumers were stimulated to do so due to bargain fares, that's a massive $40 million dividend for the tourism sector during May and June."

The 300,000 promotional fares were quickly snapped up by bargain hunters and experts expect more promotions as Jetstar moves towards a May 25 launch.

With domestic tourism competing against a strong Australian dollar and the lure of cheap overseas holidays, Mr Brown said local operators viewed low fares as a godsend. "The more discount fares that are in the market, the more likely Australians are to travel domestically," he said.

"A robust and competitive aviation industry is critical to generating growth."

But not everybody is pleased.

Tasmanians are unimpressed by the prospect of becoming a low-fare destination.

And some are upset they have been bumped from Qantas flights to Jetstar services after May 25.

==========================================

[Animalclub]

Quote
"On average, Australians spend $537 when they go on a domestic trip," he said.
Unquote

How on earth do they work this out when there are so many variables from duration to mode of travel?

I reckon it's a guesstimate.

[Capt Claret]

P47

That's a pretty wild accusation there. festering gas chambers that the industry refuses to fix

It's certainly a user unfriendly machine but it does what it does, which in Australia is often way out of it's designed mission envelope, well.

Have you flown one?

[HOBAY 3]

If QF thought they could make a decent return to shareholders by supplying a full-service two class config to Tasmania, or a more frequent schedule ....... dont you think they would do it? They have obviously researched, and come to the conclusion that the market is not there for that type/ frequency of service.

I didn't say QF had to operate the services, JQ could do it. What I am whinging about is that the SYD-HBA schedule has flights at 11:35, 12:50 and 21:15! This compares with current schedules of 6:45, 15:30, 18:45. The market is obviously there as these (current) flights are perfect for the business passenger, and loads are very good. I know it would cost a lot for QF to have aircraft overnighting in HBA, but if enough point to point services are operated to a range of destinations, then whether you are on JQ or QF doesn't really matter.

People whinging about not being able to earn FF points need to look at the deal they are getting. O.K, they don't get the points, but the fares are cheaper, so they can pay extra for their fare and earn points if they want - it all cancels out in the end!!!

As for QFs Mel-Hba services, if they want to have a crack at making profit on this route, they will need business passengers on those flights. Why not schedule them at more business friendly times??? Ever tried getting a seat HBA-MEL in the afternoon/evening? Unless you book well in advance, the only fares available are the Fully Flexible ones. You can't tell me there is not going to be any yield on those flights!!! We could see a lot of DJ -800s down here from May, and hopefully they will begin SYD-HBA soon!!!

:mad:

[Wirraway]

ABC News Online

Jetstar aims to combat Tasmanian resistance

Low cost airline Jetstar says it needs to counter misconceptions about the service it will provide to Tasmanians.

There has been some strong resistance to the new service.

Jetstar has been welcomed by the tourism industry and Government because of increased services and passenger numbers, but business travellers say it does not cater to their needs.

Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce says company representatives will address public meetings to dispel the fears.

"I think a lot of this is uncertainty about what a low-cost carrier is and when people discover the benefits of the low cost carrier, they'll regard this as really positive," he said.

Mr Joyce says all Tasmanian flights to Melbourne will fly to Tullamarine, not Avalon.

Families, elderly and disabled people will board the plane first, followed by others in order of check-in.

The Qantas terminal at Hobart will be upgraded to cater for the increase in passengers, and until then Jetstar will operate out of the former international terminal.

=========================================

[Animalclub]

Any chance of a QF Jetstar code share?

Little joke there

[HOBAY 3]

Looks like they've fixed up the MEL-HBA bit, with a flight now overnightning in HBA. Let's hope more improvements follow!

:D :D :D

[Wirraway]

fri news.com.au

Flight plan backflip: Qantas bows to business demands
By DANNY ROSE
March 5, 2004

AUSTRALIA'S biggest airline has given in to public demand with a pledge to keep flying into Tasmania at business-friendly hours.

Qantas did a backflip yesterday over its Tasmanian plan for cut-price subsidiary Jetstar, after an outcry this week from the state's business community.

Company spokesman Michael Sharp said Qantas would still replace all but two of its 10 daily flights into Hobart with budget-friendly Jetstar services from May 25.

But he said its full-service Qantas flights - which dictate the diaries of Tasmania's business commuters and thousands of members of its Frequent Flier scheme_ could be switched to more convenient times.

"The Hobart business community had asked us if we could consider making the first flight of the day earlier and the last flight later," Mr Sharp said yesterday.

"The new schedule was released three months before the first flight so it has been possible to make some changes."

Once Jetstar starts winging into the state, Qantas' first daily flight will depart Hobart at 6.35am and arrive in Melbourne's Tullamarine airport at 7.45am.

The return flight will leave Melbourne at 7.20pm, arriving in Hobart 8.30pm.

Previously, the flights were 8.40am Hobart-Melbourne and 2.55pm Melbourne-Hobart, but they were branded unworkable by the state's peak travel agents body.

Qantas' new direct Hobart-Sydney service will depart at 10.05am.

The Tasmanian Chamber of Commerce and Industry yesterday said it had been flooded with an unprecedented number of complaint calls this week.

Australian Federation of Travel Agents state director Andrew Jones, who was the first to speak out, yesterday urged Tasmania's business community to get behind the amended service.

"This shows that a major Australian company is willing to listen and meet the needs of Tasmania's business community," Mr Jones said.

"This is also a great day for travel agents, and for those doing corporate travel it has probably saved their jobs."

Qantas also will introduce larger Boeing 737s to its Melbourne-Hobart service, which include a business-class section.

The Boeing 717s on the route in recent years have included no designated business-class seats.

Mr Jones said the amended flight times were also a vast improvement for those flying on connecting interstate, or international flights.

Jetstar's implications for the Launceston airport will be discussed at a public meeting at Launceston's Dohertys Hotel at 12.30pm today.

Liberal senator Guy Barnett will chair the meeting, which will also discuss Australia's new air safety regime.

He said some issues remained, including the need to re-check baggage for those using Jetstar flights from Avalon airport - 55km away from Tullamarine.

Senator Barnett said this would impact on the elderly and disabled.

"Usually a cut-price airline starts up alongside regular airline services, it does not replace them," he said.

The Mercury

===========================================
Examiner.com.au Launceston

Lack of flights angers business
By JOHN CAPLES , Friday, 5 March 2004

Leaders to quiz Qantas
Angry Northern business leaders will call on Qantas today to schedule an early morning flight to Melbourne when low-cost subsidiary Jetstar begins service in May.

They will tell Qantas executives at today's public meeting in Launceston that the single daily return flight between Melbourne and Launceston is of little use to business travellers.

They want Qantas to match the deal done yesterday with the Tasmanian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, which will see a daily full-service 6.35am Boeing 737 flight from Hobart to Melbourne and a return at 7.20pm.

Hobart-based TCCI chief executive Damon Thomas last night praised Qantas for the new deal.

He said that while no similar deal had been struck for Launceston, he had told Qantas that it should consider one if demand warranted it.

The only Qantas full-service flight scheduled after the introduction of Jetstar will leave Melbourne at 11.35am and Launceston at 1.10pm.

The Launceston Chamber of Commerce says business travellers from Launceston would not arrive in Melbourne until mid-afternoon and would have to leave that city by 10am the next day to catch the return flight.

It says that leaves insufficient time for business and suggests that the service is designed to fail.

Chamber executive officer Jo Archer yesterday said that while the 25 increase in passenger capacity and cheaper fares through Jetstar were welcome, there was a strong sense that Qantas was preparing to dump Launceston. Jetstar will provide four Launceston-Melbourne and two Launceston-Sydney return flights a day, but there will be no seating allocation and travellers will have to collect and re-check luggage if travelling to other destinations.

Bass MHR Michelle O'Byrne said there had been further talks with Jetstar and Qantas yesterday and some concerns about assistance for travellers with disabilities had been resolved.

But she said there remained real concerns about how Jetstar and Qantas would meet both the tourism and business markets.

Tasmanian Liberal Senator Guy Barnett, who called today's public meeting, said that in talks with Qantas he had raised concerns that a cut-price airline was replacing Qantas rather than starting up alongside it.

============================================

[HOBAY 3]

Qantas also will introduce larger Boeing 737s to its Melbourne-Hobart service, which include a business-class section.

I was unaware that the 737-300 aircraft had a J class cabin!!!

:confused:

[DirectAnywhere]

QF 737-800 (http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/inTheAir/ourAircraft/seatMap738)
QF 737-400 (http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/inTheAir/ourAircraft/seatMap734)

They don't, but check out the above links...

You'll probably be seeing -800s as the -300s disappear...

[Southern handler]

yep already been announced that the -300's are going. I think on some days the schedule shows -400's. Why would they be getting rid of the 800's b4 the 400's been new aircraft and all.