Locals Complain About Cameras on Planes

[zed3]

Seemingly some residents group near Gatwick are complaining about the sky cameras in the nose of Emirates a/c giving a view of the landing to the pax. Invasion of privacy and all that old boy , what ! What next - seat belt sign on , all pax blindfold and blinds down ? !!!!!

[eal401]

You have to wonder if these people have brains. Your own eyes looking out of the window are higher resolution and a clearer image than the cameras!!!

As you say, will people start demanding a/c take off with all blinds down?? (Which of course, they can't do!)

[Practice Auto 3,2,1]

Are they having a laugh!?!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3489304.stm

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum too.......:oh:

[Toulouse]

All I cans say is UNBELIEVABLE!!!

[Gin Slinger]

My god, there are some remarkably stupid people around!

People like these are perhaps the strongest argument against living in a democracy.

Perhaps they'd like motorists to avert their eyes when driving past their property?

Or the postman to hold his breath when he delivers their mail? After all, they think they have rights over the air.

PS if you wish to pass your views onto Dormansland Parish Council, the Clerk's email address is [email protected]

[WHBM]

Well of course the pilots get a better view of it all than the TV cameras give. Maybe we will all have to wear foggles on approach.

A real clasic "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" from someone with nothing better to do.

Of course, Tunbridge Wells is just round the corner from Dormansland. Must be something in the local water.

[fireflybob]

Sounds very suspicious to me - what HAVE the residents of Dormansland got to hide I wonder? Maybe they are growing cannabis in their back gardens, eh?

[Freeway]

What a bunch of utterley stupid people, with obviously far too little to occupy themselves.
Why don't they get on with the normal Parish Council business of campaigning for more hanging baskets in the town centre and reducing the number of dogs sh'tting on the pavements etc, etc...

[Clear_Prop]

Dormansland residents say they have recognised their own gardens while flying with Emirates 2,000 ft high over their village.

:ugh: Either these people are queing up for Emirates flights to find out, or that is a classic example of journo embellishment!

[Kinetic]

What have the people in Dormansland got to hide??

Are they worried some of the passengers may not be looking excitedly at the approach lighting and runway in favour of an old pair of pailsey Y-Fronts on the washing line at number 42.

Get a life people.

[Silver Tongued Cavalier]

This sort of thing is exactly what I love about dear old England!

People with nothing better to do in their boring, comfortable, tedious lives than write to their Tory MP with pathetic complaints!

One day I want to be like them!!!! ;)
But in the meantime..................!!!!!!!!!!:}

[theblipdriver]

aaaahhhh...sounds familiar to me!
In Switzerland, they are doing sightseeing trips with a zeppelin from an old military airfiled. the people now complain that passengers may look "into their gardens", and have security issues ("burglars can search for good looking houses") to try to stop these flights. also in Lucerne, they have a hot air balloon (an attached one, one ot these go up-watch-come down again). for the same security reasons, it's forbidden to take cameras with zoom lenses on board!

crazy, isn't it?

[HKPAX]

When I read a story like this I can't help my eyes drifting up to the top of the page to check the date. Bit like the story about putting stop lights on the back of aircraft isn't it?

[RUDAS]

What a load of utter garbage!!!

[Torquelink]

And let's ban those pesky microlights and hot air balloons too - always flying over peering at m' runner beans - what? what?

[brakedwell]

Can you recognise cannabis plants from 1500 feet?

[Map_Shift]

What petty people the residents of Dormansland must be, or at least the (no doubt) small number of busy-bodies that are currently involved in this childish campaign.

If they succeed, then millions of Londoners will probabaly want to get EastEnders taken off the air for showing their district in the opening credits.

Get EastEnders taken off the air. Now's there's a thought - where do I sign up?

[eal401]

What have these people got to hide is the question? Maybe someone has a SAM in their garden shed they don't want anyone to find out about? :rolleyes:

[DamienB]

I hereby offer 5 quid for the first Dormansland resident to paint 'Piss off Biggles' on their garden shed roof.

[moggie]

7 miles from LGW = approx 2000' agl with a camera that gives the sort of picture that you get from security cameras (as seen on Crimewatch).

Having seen the cameras in action from inside the aeroplane I can tell you that there will be little or no detail to be discerned from it.

[Gin Slinger]

HKPAX: quite!
Emirates aircraft have had the cameras installed since 1999

[yintsinmerite]

Can you recognise cannabis plants from 1500 feet?

I've got a mate who can spot them from 1500 miles :p

Anyway, it looks as if the BBC artical appears to have a very rare flying A380. Damned clever these journo's

[Groundloop]

I would be very careful pointing out to these people that you get a better view just looking out the window. If they realise that they will start campaigning to get Gatwick closed!!

[Three Mile Final]

To The Clerk to Dormansland Parish Council

mailto:[email protected] (cheers Gin Slinger :ok: )

I have just read on the Professional Pilots Rumour Network (where there is considerable incredulity, scepticism and merriment) and the BBC's Southern Counties News, the report that Dormansland Parish Council object to Emirates (and other airlines) who have fixed cameras on their aeroplanes using them whilst flying over your Parish. By your argument, you are effectively saying (as pilots are already engaged in a high enough workload situation during descent and final approach or takeoff, and will not have spare capacity to safely monitor their position in relation to your parish and turn cameras on and off to suit your wishes) that you do not wish the cameras to be used at all by any aeroplanes flying into and out of Gatwick.

I strongly object to that view and wish the use of airborne cameras to be extended.

On the occasions when I have flown with Emirates, I very much welcome having the view from the external cameras (which have been present since well before 1999 as I first encountered them in July 1997) as it significantly enhances the view "out" over that from a single sideways looking window. I would like that same forward and downward looking view to be available on all of the commercial aeroplanes on which I travel (as my flight deck visits for landings were curtailed after 9/11), whether in and out of Gatwick or elsewhere.

As a pilot who flies light aeroplanes over Surrey and the Home counties, and is very happy being able to identify his own back garden, I very much enjoy the aerial view I can have and consider it my right to look at any area I wish and to take photographs or video footage if I so desire. I believe I am acting perfectly within my rights if I am viewing things from publicly accessible areas and not trespassing or acting with a deliberate interest in infringing somebody's privacy.

In any future communications you, or members of your council, have with the aeronautical authorities and with Emirates or other airlines on this matter, will you please make it clear that the residents of Surrey do not universally endorse your council's opinion and that there are those of us would like the opposite view to prevail. I believe that there are considerably more of us who wish to see Surrey from the air, than there are those of you who seek to prevent it.

I will be grateful if you can pass on my views to Peter Ainsworth MP, who does not have an EMAIL address for the benefit of Surrey residents who wish to communicate with him.

..................... be interesting to see if I get a sensible reply

TMF:ok:

[Diverse]

Quite frankly what makes any of them think they're doing anything I give a **** about or have anything I would like to own!

Mind you having seen the village website (sorry had to look) it looks beautiful but the devil is making work for idle hands.

[angels]

As one who lives in a house you can see (well, if using an electron microscope or somesuch) in the credits for East Enders, can I please have East Enders banned??

For you chaps who are relaxing on your approach to LHR and barrelling a few thousand feet above the Thames, when you reach the Thames Barrier, please avert your eyes right.

You may return your attention to flying once you see Canary Wharf because you've past my gaff by then.

You couldn't make it up.....

[MidnightSpecial]

Okay everybody, a Yank's point of view on the controversy. I know why the residents are so upset about the cameras.

Way back when, when I was a flight instructor in Northern California, my students always wanted to practice over a section of the Pacific Ocean. Specifically over a beach called the 'Red, White and Blue Beach' named for the mailbox painted in those colors nearby.

It was a nude beach.

MS:p

[Three Mile Final]

..... they would want their bumps feeling today .. we had a little snow this morning. By the sound of it, they want their bumps felling any day.

TMF

[Bumz_Rush]

Not always true....American Airlines (singular) do not insist on this, in fact they seem to prefer the blinds to be closed, ie DOWN for take off and landing. 4 sectors, 2 international, all same policy.

On a similar thread, they encourage you to use your cellular until the engines are starting, and on landing as soon as clear of the runway power them up again...
Now unless Big B and Big A make special hardened aircraft for AA why should all Easi etc insist that phones are not even thought about until :::well inside the terminal building::::, regardless of the fact that the captains mobile is switched on the moment!!! the engines are off.?

Rant over...

[Loose rivets]

Hey!!! Whatever happened to an Englishman's home being his castle??? Are not we supposed to own the space above our homes according to common law...or common something.

And another thing, try taking random photos - for no good reason - in a lot of places south of the Med, and see where that gets you.

[BEagle]

I strongly object to the Space Shuttle having downward facing cameras operating when its orbital path takes it over British West Oxfordshire. I mean, they can see right into the grounds of BEagle Towers and will know that the grass needs mowing....

What a bunch of utter ar$e!

[MrBernoulli]

Hear Hear!

I'm surprised the residents of Norfolk aren't complaining about the recce squadrons at Marham.

Will they be asking military jets not to carry ordnance next in case it hurts someone? Good Grief!

[luoto]

Ha!

"Hello.

I fear that you have been led up the garden path by some of your constituents over this camera saga. Have they never flown before on a plane with cameras or are they hoping for a free education flight as compensation/familiarisation.

Or are you going to suggest the media misquoted your claims?

Rgds,

Luoto



Wonder if I will get a reply (s)

[cessna l plate]

Couple of things folks.
Firstly Mobile phones:-
Speaking as an ex BT Cellnet engineer, an understandable version is simply this, radio waves do travel up as well as down, and so does the field of influence of a cell site. So... troll along at FL330 over the northwest, and make a call, your phone will basically attempt to comunicate with the nearest cell site, as we are still in the realms of line of sight, that means it will communicate with every cell site that it can see ( hundreds in this part of the UK). This in turns sends the computer looking for the micro chip version of prozac, and shortly after a puff of smoke will appear from the computer centre!

And as for the main part of this thread, well....... are we heralding the return of the "nimby"? It appears that these individuals are nosey enough to have the cameras on when on this flight, as long as no-one else looks at thier back yard. Something about having cake and eating it. What a shame that the journos involved haven't got either the ability or talent to come up with a proper news story ( how will EASA affect UK airspace in the future for instance?). This story should have been left where it belongs, "In somebody else's back yard". Shame on you Fleet Street!!!

[cwatters]

Shock horror...I hear that both Mars rovers have cameras that can be pointed at the earth! I mean they can see the whole planet, EVERYTHING. Worse they are even publishing the images on the internet!...

Example (192K):

Mr & Mrs We of 23 The High Street, (http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040114a/hazcam_mosaic_with_earth_annotation-A12R1_br.jpg)

Other images here:

Mars Exploration Rover Mission (http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html)

[-<M4v3r1ck>-]

I've not read the offending article but am currently squeazing my eyes tightly shut and hoping that when I open them again this whole thread will turn out to be some crazy dream. Dear me...!

Mav :confused:

[PLovett]

Hate to pour cold water on the tongue in cheek horror at the thought of being "spied" upon but unless someone is willing to take the matter back to court, the whole thing was decided years ago.

Cannot now remember the case name but it involved some adventurous soul taking aerial photographs of stately piles in England and then trying to flog the results. His Lordship objected...Englishman's home is is castle (or in this case, castle is his home) etc....

Got nowhere. Court held that despite common law extending freehold holding from the bowels of the earth to the heavens, actual control extended to height where you could actually do something with it. Above that it belonged to the Crown.

Tell the residents of Dormansland to get on their bike...to court. They might make a new precedent if they are lucky. :suspect:

[amanoffewwords]

Don't need to fly Emirates to have a peak - Multimap (http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=540500&Y=142500&scale=5000&width=500&height=300&gride=&gridn=&mapsize=small&lang=) gives it to you on-line, and if you want a more accurate picture they're available for sale...!

[Piltdown Man]

How dare these nasty people look up these aeroplanes flying over their houses. The pilots could be distracted by these poeple when they have to trim their flaps and push the landing levers. These people should be banned from looking up, stay in their houses all day long and have their curtains closed. Hrrumpff.

[LIMA18]

Does anyone out there know with which town or village Dormansland is twinned with?

I dread to think!!!!!

:E :E :E:

[mutt]

We have had downward facing cameras on the B777 since 1998, considering that on approach we are doing over 200 mph, its extremely difficult to focus on anything that we fly over.

However, some of our playjets have cameras which can be zoomed in from 35000 ft, its amazing what you can see flying over the south of France.

Personally to avoid this intrusion on privacy, i suggest that all airliners be banned from flying during daylight hours..... :):):)


Mutt.

[TvB]

and all sorts of military drones and paper planes too...:ok:

[Half a Mexican]

Mutt makes a fine suggestion.

In order to preserve the privacy of Dormansland residents, all flights over-flying the town should be made at night... ;)

--
HaM:}

[Johnavia]

OR perhaps the residents of Dormansland are creating WMDs in their back gardens. In which case their argument for privacy is completely justified in my book.

PATHETIC!

[WestWind1950]

This sort of thing is exactly what I love about dear old England!

and here I thought such turkey's only existed in Germany :} (sorry if I insulted any birds....)

we had a complaint here once about a glider plane flying in a thermal in one spot.... it was over a housing project and one owner was sure the pilot was circling there just to look at this guys wife who was sunning in the garden :uhoh: (probably wasn't worth it anyway :E )

Westy

[ramsrc]

Makes an amusing change from the usual whinging about noise! :E

[cwatters]

If anyone wants to try aerial photography this site has links to get you started. You can now fit still and video cams to anything from a kite to a model rocket.

Hicam (http://www.hicam.com.au/index.htm)

This page has photos taken by hobbyist who "obviously has a serious passion for altitude"....

Projects (http://www.hicam.com.au/exhib.htm)

Example photo (http://www.hicam.com.au/big/frspc4.JPG)

Just make sure you follow the CAA rules and the guidelines from the BMFA.

[Earthmover]

Well as I reside at seven miles final to one of the London Airports, and therefore as someone who gets to look down at his house every day, I shall redress the balance by mooning at the lady next door when I fly over ... and doing the same from my back garden when I know from the roster that the Chief Pilot is overhead.

This article provides an ideal opportunity to employ the expression "Get a Life!"

[The Nr Fairy]

LIMA18:

I think Dormansland is twinned with Royston Vasey.

[Gatwick Bugle]

Loose rivets was correct. There was a famous case in the seventies, where Lord Goldstein(or similar) successfully sued Skyviews and General. The law apparently states that a persons property extends to the centre of the earth and infinitely skywards. He had demanded the return of the negatives of a series of speculative aerial shots, but had been denied.

[aged]

I think they have a valid point if you think about it. A papparazi could be sitting there taking snap shots of the fast moving ground view portrayed on the seatback in front of him, any one of which shots could be magnified later into a blurred image of what might possibly some fat blob sunbathing topless.

On the other hand maybe there should be a new item on checklists to remember to look out the window on finals /takeoff if passing over someone's wee patch of garden.

Good to know there are still plenty plonkers out there.

[McGinty]

I find it rather unusual that a pilots' forum where there has been extensive negative reaction to the possibility of installing video cameras in cockpits (on the grounds of invasion of privacy) would feature a discussion where others who would wish to protect their own rights to privacy are absolutely trashed.

(PPRuNe’s discussion of cockpit video recording followed the suicide/murder EgyptAir crash into the Atlantic)

If pilots can argue for protection from video surveillance, then why don't those on the ground have the same right?

Sure, pilot video surveillance would be close-up, versus the Emirates' camera surveillance of those on the ground being long-distance, but surely the general principle of privacy is the same in both cases, is it not?

Or is it one law for the rich (metaphorically speaking, not $$), and another for the poor plebs on the ground??

[Half a Mexican]

McGinty,

I'm not sure it is the same principle. I can't see that an image of something 2000 ft below in which it would be pretty much impossible to identify anyone is an invasion of privacy. Especially considering passengers get the same view
by just looking out of the window.

I very much doubt any pilot would object to being filmed from a distance of 2000 ft.


--
HaM

[flaps to 60]

I wonder if any of these people have video cameras that they used on holiday and if they have the people in the backgrounds permission etc etc etc.

Where will this Nanny State, Nimby, get rich quick and sue them till they bleed madness stop.

Why don't they agree to another runway at LGW and that will move the problem for them.

[BigEndBob]

Saddam for prime minister...that should deflect their attention!

whoopps.... i will get a knock on the door tomorrow.

[carolosm]

all i can say is that ENGLISH PEOPLE ARE NUTS (no offence)
French too by the way:cool:

all i can say is that english people are crasy :cool:

[Jock747]

Move from the LGW area......

[WeatherJinx]

LIMA18/Nr FairyDoes anyone out there know with which town or village Dormansland is twinned with? I dread to think!!!!! I think Dormansland is twinned with Royston Vasey...I have it on very good authority that Dormansland is in fact twinned with the modest Northern Swedish hamlet of Nømby Arsøl...

:E

[Bletchley]

One wonders what poor old Nømby Arsøl did to be twinned with somewhere like that.

Looks like a large number of villages are missing their idiots.

[astir 8]

'taint only the shy inhabitants of Dormansland who are eejits. I remember an attempt (failed) to establish a gliding site a few years back where one of the objectors, an alleged ex-pilot, claimed that glider pilots could look into people's bedrooms!!!

- well possibly true, if said glider pilot was either a) Superman or b) about to enter said bedroom, via the window at about 80 knots while still wrapped in the glider.

there's nowt so queer as folk

[ShyTorque]

At Ipswich Airport (ah, those were the days) someone put up a notice in the Lonmet Aviation club building. It stated something like: "Pilots are to avoid flying over the nudist colony, at bearing 273.2 degrees, 12.55 nautical miles from the airport".

We all had to do regular recces to see if we could find the place to make sure we avoided it.

It was good training. Now I can spot a loose bra strap from over 15,000ft on the approach, even at night, especially if the landing light has been left on. :8