Are Ryanair cutting corners on safety, would the Professiona Pilots here pax with it?

[Coconuts]

Okay I've pussyfooted around with this on the main forum to no avail but I think as a pax, & one that is scheduled to take a few flights with FR soon I've a right to know if there's any valid basis to all these rumours going the rounds. Personally for me the idea about pax loading their own luggage into the hold that FR has been bandying around leads me to think that there are more than one or two that are nuttier than a fruitcake working for that establishment.

I believe as a pax I've a right to know if an airline I fly with is engaged in shoddy safety practices. Or are all these accusations mere unbased rumour & innunedo being thrown around without any credence of fact because many are envious of FR's success & want to discredit the airline & resent the competition & downgrading of fares hence profits that FR has initiated??

I would be grateful before any of you start throwing accusations at FR that you back it up with fact lest it turns into the usual unbackable, unbased, airy fairy mudslinging. :rolleyes:

How can I be more direct than that, now lets get down to the nitty gritty!

Regards

Coco

[bealine]

Coconuts....You are a provocative so and so!!!

The press have tried to pin this accusation down on Ryanair several times, but lacked evidence! However, NATS, the Air Traffic Control body, did express concern a few years ago the FR pilots were demanding landing priority on a regular basis because they had insufficient "diversionary" fuel reserves.

It later transpired that the aircraft were not low on fuel at all, but one or two "stupid", inexperienced pilots were trying to bully the ATC controller in order to jump the landing queue. (I say "stupid" because crying "WOLF" too often could result in a genuine low fuel situation being denied landing priority!!!)

However, that was a couple of years ago now and the ATC men haven't shouted again since, so I guess Michael O'Leary allows them a few extra litres of Avgas now, and has told them not to browbeat ATC!

You can rest assured that no pilot, whoever they work for, would ever go to work if he/she thought they weren't going to get back home again, so they won't compromise safety! Similarly, the CAA (and the DETR) would revoke any airline's licence immediately if safety was a genuine concern!

I might not like Ryanair, and they might take a few short cuts and "bob and weave" here and there, but I can't fault their safety standards!

You might like to look at the following:

Workplace:
http://www.hsa.ie/press/press01/november/pr291101.htm

ATC problems
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/854716

Exhausted Pilots
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/2053127.stm

From TUC Newletter
Union hours challenge to Ryanair
The pilots’ union BALPA is taking on Ryanair over conflicting advice about how many hours pilots should fly. The union has written to the chief pilot at Ryanair demanding clarification after the Irish company introduced a new 'fixed year' scheme for calculating total hours, which appears to contradict official Irish Aviation Authority guidance. Graham Fowler, deputy general secretary of BALPA said pilots faced uncertainty, 'and uncertainty does not make for a safe situation.' He added: 'We are asking the chief pilot at Ryanair to clarify the situation. There is a danger that by switching to a fixed year period pilots would be scheduled by the airline to fly more than the 900 hours a year limit. The limit is a vital element of the rules which govern pilot hours to ensure they are properly rested and fit to fly. Ryanair must do as the Irish Aviation Authority has ruled. If it does not, it stands in danger of having its licence to fly withdrawn.'

[Coconuts]

Bealine

Coconuts....You are a provocative so and so!!!
Thank You for the compliment!

Coco :D

[bealine]

Coco - LOL!!!:D

[Coconuts]

Bealine

Thank you for that additional information to your post & links that you've provided :ok:

I would like to emphasis that I am not an FR basher, though some of their management style regarding how they treat their employees wouldn't exactly enthuse me. I am more than grateful to them stuck on this little isolated island on the edge of the Atlantic seaboard where airtravel is more than often a necessity for international travel for ending the monopoly that Aer Lingus had on the Irish aviation market with their atrociously overinflated prices that only a Lady or Lord Muck could afford.

I've had the privilege of jumpseating on a number of times with their lovely courteous flight crews, a courteousness that has been mirrored in the cabin by their FA's. I've experienced nothing myself that would make me question their safety standards but that hasn't closed my ears to certain rumours which have genuinely left me concerned & wondering if there a basis to them?

Coco

[mini]

Why do people assume that LOCO = Lo standards, COCO, not talking about you, this is a common assumption by many.

Traditionally, air travel had been marketed as elitist, going back to the days when only the wealthy could afford it. I would suggest that the "National Carriers" with their civil service mentalities carried this into the present day - Aer Lingus being a valid example, until Willie appeared at the helm they thought they could sub their inefficiency with inflated prices.

FR are subject to the same JAA regs as any other airline. I doubt their operational practices are "dangerous" per se, an accident (heaven forbid) that was judged to be caused by cost control would be the end of them and all LOCO's. MOL is on record as being very aware of this.

I think they have brought a fresh outlook to the industry, many in other professions have gone through this experience and it won't end here, medicine & law will be next... right or wrong.

FR's greatest weaklink is the age of their fleet, apparently they are the largest 732 operators globally.

I'm going to get slaughtered for this...

:sad: :sad:

[Sobelena]

Ryanair will be OK as long as they maintain a good safety record. However, should they be unfortunate to have a fatal accident, whatever the reason, I believe that MOL's empire would collapse like a pack of cards. Remember Valujet?

[MarkD]

Coco

a search of the archives would have turned up the answer, if for no other reason than that many of the PPs on this forum, which you and I are not, are FR pilots.

While CRM is not FR's forte, see various union and employee relations issues previously, MOL has cut everything but safety, maintenance etc. FR's safety record in terms of flights/seat miles etc. is more than adequate.

Questions have been raised about FR's practices on hours, aircraft etc. but so far so good. As for FR being the largest 732 operator, this is probably since Southwest binned theirs for being below a critical mass of planes for maintenance, pilot cadre reasons (they reckon 25 is the minimum of any type they want on their books).

Look at the industry - they are matching MoLs practices. If he's wrong, so are they. Maybe so!

[PAXboy]

SobelenaRyanair will be OK as long as they maintain a good safety record. However, should they be unfortunate to have a fatal accident, whatever the reason, I believe that MOL's empire would collapse like a pack of cards. Remember Valujet? I don't think so.

Three or five years ago? Yes but FR have, I think, reached 'critical mass' in this, as have EZY. The public will continue to put low fares first. If they (or any carrier) had a series of prangs, then that is another matter.

[Coconuts]

Hmmm

Interesting, when push comes to shove & people are asked to validate their accusations they seem to back into a corner. Not liking FR & accusing it of being unsafe are two different issues. I'm happy with the response so far, have always been cynical of the FR bashers & their motives, whether they had any validity or not? Either that are people are afraid to voice their opinions in public & back them up.

Though I heard someone quoting MOL as having said something in the vein of an airline could afford to have two accidents before it went down the tubes, can't vouch that he really said it though. I'm beginning to believe that begrudgement may be the motive behind all this FR bashing more than anything, may be wrong, I don't know. I'll continue to pax with them for the mo till someone comes up with a bl**dy good reason on safety grounds for me not to & backs it up with hard facts!

Thanks everyone for your responses. :ok:

Regards

Coco

[TR4A]

As for FR being the largest 732 operator, this is probably since Southwest binned theirs for being below a critical mass of planes for maintenance, pilot cadre reasons (they reckon 25 is the minimum of any type they want on their books).SWA still has 22 B737-200's left. They will be gone by this time next year.

Ryanair gets bashed on PPrune from other airline pilots (BA) because they are not like their legacy carriers.

[Coconuts]

Ryanair gets bashed on PPrune from other airline pilots (BA) because they are not like their legacy carriers.
I don't think BA pilots have a monoploy on this behaviour!

Coco