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boofhead
12th Mar 2002, 08:17
It must be getting boring, since nothing is being done to improve the situation despite complaints, but I have to rant a little, please bear with me.. .. .Suppose the pollution police found a car in London that had had its catalytic converter illegally removed and they decided to ensure that this did not happen again, so they set up road blocks at all major highways and stopped every car except for towtrucks and police cars to check them out. It involves jacking up the car, sometimes removing tires, and general poking around in the boot, etc. Imagine the traffic snarlup.. .. .Could you see the motorists putting up with this?. .. .Yet this is the approach to airport security, especially in the US. All passengers are suspected to be criminals, all aircrew the same, while the airport staff and security themselves get a free pass.. .. .Tens of thousands of people have gone through this 'enhanced security' yet not one has been found to be a terrorist, armed or otherwise. You could say that this proves the system is working, but it also proves the opposite; that this level of security shows there is no problem with normal passengers and crew. The security could be reduced to the pre-Sep 11 level and there would be no increase in risk.. .. .Occasionally they will find a gun or knife, and again that proves that there was no risk, since those weapons have been found in the bags of honest people, and therefore they would not have been used. Weapons don't kill people; people do!. .. .Terrorists and other evil people know how to circumvent security; heck I do! And I am not evil (ask my exwife!). They can take a chance to get weapons on board, since they are willing to risk being caught. If I try, or forget about a pair of scissors, I can lose my job.. .. .The idea that a Medal of Honor winner, or an 86 yr old granny is going to wake up one morning and say "I think today I will go hijack an airplane, and to make it interesting I will steal a leatherman from a pilot's briefcase or a nailfile from a housewife to do so!" is so ludicrous it defies the imagination.. .. .I cannot believe that the agencies forcing this cr*p on us are ignorant enough to think they are doing the right thing for security, so are they that criminal themselves they would do so anyway, knowing how useless their actions are, and knowing that they are doing nothing to prevent a repeat of last September or anything like it?. .. .The only answer is to increase the Intelligence assets, similar to what EL AL has (including profiling. My car analogy shows that if the police check only cars that show signs of having been modified, it would be more acceptable and more effective). Improve the IDs, pre-screen frequent flyers and especially crewmembers. Save the spot checks for those who fit the profile. More effective security has a chance. More of the 'same' has not.. .. .And I am still waiting for the authorities to modify the flight crew actions in the event of hijacking to be something that has a chance of working. Including weapons of defence. My own airline has so far only repeated the old mantra of 'cooperate with the hijackers and follow their instructions', since the FAA/Insurance companies have not had the guts to come up with an effective way to deal with it, after 6 months yet!. .We have strengthened doors, but if the bad guy threatens a cabin crew or passenger, I have to open up anyway. Imagine the insurance claim if I don't and he/she is hurt! What a load of cobblers.. .. .Sigh, back to work. Better go early and make sure my socks are clean. The xray peerers are always unable to work out what a Jep binder is on their screens and if you have to open your bag, you have to take off your shoes too (at least in LAX). Actually, watching the security guy try to figure out what a Jep is, is funny, in a way. But cannot laugh, the National Guard man/woman will poke a rifle at me! Need more than clean socks then!

con-pilot
12th Mar 2002, 10:30
I’m sorry Mr. Boofhead, but just exactly where has your airline been living since 9/11?. .. .NO, sorry, we do not take hijacking like we used to. This is a new world. People are happy to kill themselves to advance their religious beliefs. . .. .If your airline still thinks that the flight crews should just give up and say to the hijacker, “Oh sorry, please Mr. Hijacker don’t be mean, just ask for not really nice things and me ‘the Captain’ will not interfere with you and life will be ok.”. .. .Just where the hell have you been for the last 6 months?. .. .Bad man, really bad!. .. .Sorry, but I hate stupid people.. .. .For God's sake be a man, not clone for the PC.. .. .Get a life!

AA SLF
12th Mar 2002, 10:48
boofhead -. .. .The following comments are from a "professional" pax who flys an average of 100k air miles per year:. .1) Could we have a hint as to the name of your airline? Because I do NOT want to fly on any airline that is going to "open the door" to ANY hijacker. As long as that door is secured we, the pax and cabin crew, have a chance to take down the bad guy. Open that door and we are in for a 550 knot "landing". Don't want to go out that way.. .. .2) In general, I agree with everything you are saying about "Security" before boarding a flight. As a pax I carry several VERY DEADLY weapons with me on EVERY FLIGHT I take. It is just that most folks don't know what they are or how to use them effectively. I simply cannot believe that these "weapons" haven't been banned before now, except that they are so commonplace that almost every pax would be effected and there would almost never be any carry-on bags allowed. I don't think the airlines could handle the "checked" bag load this would cause.. .. .3) What really gets me is that I really fear that there is a HUGE security hole in the GROUND STAFF area. This is how the drug runners from Columbia get some of their dope into the USA. I am really pi--ed that nothing is done about this matter of ground staff security. They can "do" the plane and NOT risk their lives; pilots, cabin crew and pax do risk their lives. NOT RIGHT!!. .. .4) Even if your airline's SOP is to open the door - please don't do it if a hijacking does occur on one of your flights. Please, please give you pax and CC a chance.. .-dAAvid

boofhead
13th Mar 2002, 07:41
The airline company I work for ( a big one, but that's all I will say about it) just last month reminded us that the security procedures have not been changed, and they nclude as a general rule to cooperate with a hijacker. Even though we have the strengthened doors, they came with no recommendations as to their use nor did the security procedures change to reflect their installation.. .I have not seen any change to the FAA instructions on this matter, and I think that what my airline has stated agrees with the official policy.. .If I am wrong, I would appreciate a reference and I will take it up with the management of my airline. If I am right, and there has been no official change, regardless of the posturing that goes on here, then I wish there would be a change, so that we are all on the same page.. .I saw that Mary Schiavo made a similar statement on the lack of effectiveness of the present security procedures on Fox tv this am, so I am not alone. But since she is out of the loop now, I don't think the authorities will listen to her either.

Throtlemonkey
13th Mar 2002, 09:10
I can't see why today should be any diferent to two day after 11/9 atack, are we suposed to relax now - to do so would only be an ivitation to let it happen again.