What the....Jetstar from AVV????

[Buster Hyman]

Heard a whisper that Jetstar will operate from Avalon. Some strange reasoning about no freeway tolls to Avalon!:confused: And this keeps fares low eh?:confused:

I guess big Lindsay will foot the bill for the terminal huh? I guess it's what he's always wanted....:suspect:

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Seems like a bad move if true. Why spend extra $$$ travelling that far for a flight. Tulla or bust I reckon.

Sounds like a bit of publicity for a certain character.

[Buster Hyman]

Jetstar to fly from Avalon: report
By Online Staff
February 24, 2004 - 9:50PM

A regional airport south west of Melbourne is set to become the headquarters for Qantas's new budget airline, according to a news report.

The new airline, Jetstar, is set to announce tomorrow that it will base itself at Avalon Airport, near Geelong, National Nine News reported tonight.

Qantas had been expected to announce its plans for Jetstar's routes, fare structure and headquarters at a press conference tomorrow.

Avalon airport is owned by businessman Lindsay Fox, who was a key player in the bid to resurrect Ansett after its collapse three years ago.

The site, which borders the Princes Freeway, is believed to have been chosen because of the major road's lack of tolls, free parking for passengers and lower landing fees than at Melbourne Airport.

Qantas's engineering services are already based there.

Avalon Airport is also the home of the Australian International Airshow, which is held every two years.

Lindsay Fox's son David said he could not comment on the location of the airline.

"Oh look, it's a very exciting facility," Mr Fox told Channel Nine. "We're working on several projects at the present moment. But look, I don't think we're in a position to make any comment."

Mr Fox said tomorrow's announcement was "Possibly exciting news, could be very exciting news."

Victorian Premier Steve Bracks said: "Well I'm not (sure) that that is settled yet. But I do know that Avalon is a great location. It's a good airport. It's got great capacity."

Jetstar is believed to have modelled the business on cut-price European carriers such as Ireland-based outfit Ryanair, which uses secondary capital city airports.

JetStar is due to start flying in May.

[Hudson]

Too far from the CBD and worse from the eastern suburbs where the rich people live.

[Howard Hughes]

Yes but are the rich people the target demographic?

Are they not seeking to grow the market instead of cannabalise there existing market?

Cheers, HH.

[OperationsNormal]

Rich people wont touch Jetstar!

[Wirraway]

Wed "Melbourne Age"

http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1077594840854_2004/02/25/fox_RHS_2502,0.jpg
Fox trot: Lindsay Fox has struck a deal with Qantas, allowing the use of his Avalon airport as a base for domestic Jetstar flights. The deal comes hot on the heels of the trucking and property tycoon's purchase of Phillip Island motorcycle track.
Photo: Andrew De La Rue

Budget airline to fly from Avalon
By Chris Evans, Stephen Dabkowski
February 25, 2004

Melbourne is to get a second domestic airport with the new Qantas subsidiary, Jetstar, to launch no-frills passenger services out of Avalon.

In a surprise move, Qantas has struck a deal with Avalon's owner, trucking and property tycoon Lindsay Fox, to use the airport as a base for domestic Jetstar flights.

The plan will be revealed today when Qantas unveils the route network and fare structure for Jetstar, the new Melbourne-based carrier it will use to take on Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Blue in the no-frills passenger market.

Travel industry sources last night told The Age that Jetstar would fly into and out of Avalon on the busy Melbourne-Sydney and Melbourne-Brisbane trunk routes. Other Jetstar flights will operate out of Tullamarine.

It is believed that Qantas, in its bid to achieve a low-cost structure to rival Virgin Blue, was attracted to Avalon, near Geelong, by the prospect of lower take-off and landing fees for Jetstar than it would face at Melbourne Airport.

And while Avalon is further from the city than Tullamarine, passengers will be advantaged by toll-free road access on the Princes Freeway and, it is believed, free parking.

The deal will make Melbourne the first city in Australia to have more than one major domestic airport.

A spokeswoman for Melbourne Airport said last night it was welcome development. "Competition is great for travel and tourism in Victoria, competition in both airlines and in airports. So we welcome them into operation," she said.

"They will be flying out of Melbourne (Airport) as well, I believe. We're still waiting on the announcement tomorrow, so I can't confirm that."

Until now, Avalon has operated principally as an air cargo port as well as a major airline maintenance facility, a pilot training centre and as the home of Melbourne's International Air Show.

By using Avalon for its no-frills operation, Qantas will be mimicking the strategy of successful European budget line RyanAir, which flies exclusively from secondary airports.

http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1077594837000_2004/02/24/avalon_map_2502.gif

WHAT LINDSAY FOX OWNS
- Linfox trucking logistics business. Annual turnover $1.2 billion
- Avalon Airport
- Essendon Airport
- A multimillion-dollar classic car collection
- A 10 per cent stake in the Bank of Queensland
- A mansion in Irving Road, Toorak
- A mansion in Portsea as well as other property interests

While refusing to confirm the launch of Avalon as a second domestic passenger airport, the LinFox group and Premier Steve Bracks yesterday praised the facilities at the 1840-hectare site, which is 55 kilometres from Melbourne.

"It's a very exciting facility," LinFox spokesman David Fox told Channel Nine. "We're working on several projects at the present moment. But look, I don't think we're in a position to make any comment. Possibly exciting news, could be very exciting news."

Mr Bracks was also non-commital, saying nothing was settled. "But I do know that Avalon is a great location. It's a good airport. It's got great capacity," Mr Bracks said.



The launch of Jestar comes as Virgin Blue continues to make spectacular inroads in the domestic aviation market, announcing yesterday that its passenger numbers in January were 45 per cent higher than a year earlier.

Both airlines are battling to create the lowest-cost airline in Australia, with Qantas taking first-round points last week after unveiling commercially sensitive cost projections showing Jetstar could be run more cheaply than Virgin Blue.

Qantas announced last December that it would spend close to $1.6 billion on new aircraft for the low-cost carrier, which is set to take off in May.

The Jetstar deal is the latest in a series of moves by Mr Fox that have turned him into a major player in aviation. In partnership with British company Serco, Mr Fox bought Avalon from the Federal Government in 1997 for $11 million.

In 2001, Mr Fox bought Essendon Airport from the Government in partnership with Becton. More recently, Mr Fox and fellow Melbourne businessman Solomon Lew made a failed bid to take over and relaunch the collapsed Ansett Airlines.

=============================================

[Buster Hyman]

Well, I'll wait for the details, but operating out of both airports just seems dumb at face value.

However....B717's out of MEB...hmmm...tasty!:ooh:

[SM4 Pirate]

I'm not so sure it's a bad move; the population of the western suburbs/Geelong is quite substantial.

Hobart, Launceston have 6 flights a day or more, with less population supporting those airports. Initially the low amount of flights could work; but long term will people from SY, BN etc. want to use that airport when they have a choice.

Transport issues will be huge, $70+ cab ride to the city will really hurt, so public transport will need to be fantastic to make it work.

Good luck to them I say; can I get a job at AV tower; will it need radar approach services?

Bottle of Rum

[Going Boeing]

I suspect that it will be the engineering HQ with a number of services AVV-SYD (& other destinations). They would be mad not to have the majority of services operating through Tulla.

[Blown Seal]

If this eventuates it will only be a win win situation for everyone concerned. The (large regional) city of Geelong, in addition to the western districts, certainly have the population to support such a move. And would likely support it in return. The savings to Jetstar are obvious. It's been a few years since I have been to AV but it might need a fair bit of cash spent, and work done pretty quickly to really support such a move in terms of pax facilities. Not that it would be much of a stumbling block for Fox. However as the majority of Melbourne's population is located on the east the vast majority of services will still need to go through Tullamarine. :ok:

[Flying Tiger]

Folks, this is all very interesting, particularly the negative replies on this post.

Not long ago I read an article on the results of a study in Europe regarding the low cost phenomenon and secondary airports. It showed that passengers were prepared to drive up to an EXTRA 90 minutes to a secondary airport if the airfares were lower than that at the primary airport. The interesting thing was that fares didn't need to be much lower - the extra cost of driving didn't seem to be a factor. Its about as logical as on time departures being more important than on time arrivals, but in the end people thought only about the airfare and not the extra time or cost in getting to and from the airport!

In Melbourne it takes about 25 minutes to Tulla from the CBD. Avalon takes about 50 - ie only 25 minutes extra. The extra cost of petrol is negligible and it is true there are savings on tolls (you still need to go through the domain tunnel to get to Avalon from the southeast, but there are more tolls to Tulla), but I don't think either of these is relevant. As per the European experience, if the price of the ticket is less the result will be similar. The fact that the demographic centre of Melbourne is to the southeast won't be relevant.

IMHO, Jetstar will kill em. Plenty of people will wear the extra 25 minutes travel and fly from Avalon in search of a cheaper fare. These are the same bread and butter price sensitive battler who is prepared to accept a lesser level of service, inflight entertainment and no catering on Virgin. The extra travel to Avalon will be just another inconvenience that translates into more savings. In Europe they will soon be without headrests, seat pockets, checked luggage and window shades! All this will strike a savage blow right at the they heart of Virgin Blue. They will be caught in no-mans land because if they try to go to Avalon to protect their traditional heartland they will leave themselves exposed at Tulla as any reduction in services could possibly alienate their growing business clientele. So who do they try and satisfy - the battler or the businessman? As Godfrey said during the attempted re-launch of Ansett, with low cost carriers the brand is price as they offer nothing else, so rarely can two carriers survive in this sector flying similar networks. They were his words, not mine, and they may come back to haunt him because if he's correct, then only one of Jetstar or Virgin can survive. As I said, his words, not mine....

PS...am not employed by either Virgin or Impulse, nor have I been rejected by either. No axe to grind, just calling it as I see it.

[High Altitude]

Avalon... Least you could fly into the airshow;)

But seriously what a pain in the ar*e it is travelling through major airports. The ques (yes even Q Club, BC), secrutiy check points and the old Nazi cops out the front to stop you dropping off or picking up.

Avavlon will be relatively quiet, effecient and you probably will not have to walk 4 km to the terminal or pay $20 for the privaledge of parking at the airport.

Straight over the West Gate bridge and down the FWY pretty easy really. The only problem will occur in peak Summer Traffic with everyone heading down the coast (I miss Torquay) if there is a pile up.

Saying that there is a train line & bus connection which would probably need to be upgraded but would more than likely also cost less than the Bris - Airport train.

I would imagine that there would be fairly hefty incentives for JetStar. Don't forget Bacchus Marsh, Ballarat, Bendigo, Geelong, The Coast, Werribee, Altona, etc are all very very very close to Avalon. There is a huge and growing population base!

Now what a fun sector that would be... a ferry from Tulla to AV...

:O

[Johhny Utah]

Flying Tiger - I think that the numbers of people from the north coast of NSw who are prepared to drive up to an hour or two so that they can fly with Virgin Blue (rather than a Qantaslink Dash) would seem to add further weight to your argument.

It seems as though the DJ management mght have been a bit caught out by the news re: Avalon. perhps this is one of the factors that will contribute to the lower costs for JetStar that GD quoted recently...

It all seems to have gone very quiet on the DJ front... I guess they might be feeling a bit uncomfortable thinking that they might be about to be outflanked...:rolleyes:

[Howard Hughes]

What great news.

A new airline, with new ideas! (well new to this country anyway)

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

PS: Just been thinking about it a little more, I think this is really a great move, in that it does'nt eat into their core business out of Melbourne to Bris/Syd. Time will tell if this will expand the market, but at this stage, I think they are on to something!!

[ReadMyACARS]

The population catchment from the western side of Melbourne makes usung Avalon a few times a day a winner. Good to see some lateral thinking applied to running an airline in this country.

Who knows, the next radical idea might be to use Richmond in Sydney as another Jetstar port

[blueloo]

my melbourne apt to avalon taxi fare was $100. i'd rather pay more for a seat on DJ or QF than give a $100 to a non-english speaking taxi driver.

:}

[Johhny Utah]

If taxi fares are that expensive then I can only suggest that it won't take very long for some with some entrepreneurial skills to setup a shuttle service - between Avalon & the CBD, Avalon & Geelong, and perhaps even Avalon - Tullamarine (for those on connecting flights who didn't do their homework...;) )

[Buster Hyman]

Gull buses already run from Geelong to Tulla & I'm sure the incumbent bus service will eventually triangulate. As mentioned earlier, the rail line may be the key to this venture becoming a winner for JetStar.

[Aladdin]

Avalon sounds great but its a bad move, comparing Australian secondary airports to European secondary airports is crazy.

And with the way Melbourne cab drivers are I'll be surprised if they would bother driving all that way for a couple of flights.

[Orville]

It appears to be an extremely educated move by the executive farmer Dixon. The eastern suburbs of melbourne have expanded a good 60 minutes from the CBD. And all the growth over the next decade is going to be down the western region. Those that are interested just ask the town planners where the are preparing for growth. The Geelong road wasn't upgraded for geelong resident only!!!

Although I think this is an economically good move by all the major players, the government would be offering some very good incentives for the region to be opened up with new employment opportunities, WHATS TO BECOME OF THE AVALON AIRSHOW?

It would not be possible to conduct an airshow and handle 50 to 60 flights a day. The commutter service that operated from geelong to Avalon during the last airshow created many disruptions not to mention the near miss involving marshallers and a pilot who had a schedule to keep.

[Wirraway]

travelbiz.com.au

Contrary to recent media reports, Avalon will not offer free car parking.

Parking at the airport will cost $7 a day.

Skybus will also operate to Avalon from both Geelong and Melbourne.

A Skybus fare from Melbourne to Avalon will cost $13 – the same as to Tullamarine.

============================================

[KLN94]

Jetstar are looking at Richmond Airport in Sydney as well!

Melbourne's western suburbs to Sydney's western suburbs. Interesting concept.

10% of Australia's population lives in Western Sydney.

[Buster Hyman]

Can't wait for moccassin class! Or, pay a bit extra for Ug boot class.

[Hugh Jarse]

This bloke was walking through Mt. Druitt (western Sydney) the other day, when he spots a kid wearing only one thong.

He asks the kid "Hey, did you lose a thong?"

Kid replies "Naaah, f*cking found one!"

Apologies to Vince Sorrenti :E

[capt cynical]

FREE Parking and no TOLL'S
Yeah----For how long !!
That definetly was a pig doing a circuit today :rolleyes:

[HAMO]

Remember when Hazelton tried the Avalon to Sydney service way back in '95

Didnt work back then mainly because of a lack of frequency (was only 2 flight's a day) and the corp traffic weren't real keen to spend 2+ hrs in the back of a SAAB when they were used to sitting on the burners

There is a huge pax market in Geelong and the western districts of victoria - it will be a winner with high frequency and a jet service!

Good one!

[ferris]

OrvilleIt would not be possible to conduct an airshow and handle 50 to 60 flights a day Really? Better warn Dubai (and their 900-odd per day).

I had to say, when I first read they were going to use Avalon, I thought "bad move". After the intial fare madness ends, are people really going to travel to save $20 on the airfare (possibly spending more money- cabs/buses/petrol/tolls)? In my experience, most VFRs get dropped off by friends/family, but will that be the case at AV? Maybe J* will run a bus from the city themselves? You cannot get away from the fact that the majority of air travellers will come from the east. And it's not like Tulla is a throbbing commuter nightnare yet.
Having said all that, there are still large numbers of potential travellers within striking distance. It seems (as already mentioned) that the LCC experience so far is that people will travel to get the fares. There is nowhere out east that could be used without significant expenditure (although that is possible in the future- might be something Fox/Becton/Serco/Transurban are looking at- build it and they will come).
Will be interesting.

SM4 Pirate.
AV is a Serco facility. Might be the first Serco tower in oz. I hope Ted and co. are watching!

[Orville]

ferris,
I appreciate your point, but Dubai, I expect, would have more than just 1 runway to operate from.

Other considerations would be Terminal facilities are pretty well non-existant. There will need to be some major upgrades done to Avalon, and I can't see Fox putting his hand in his pocket. I think this is where the Gov. will show their hand and contribute considerable amounts of our money to make Qantas share holders and Fox richer.

The Gov. will show their appreciation of the move to decentralisation of the Melbourne urban squarl away from the East. Looks like a good time to invest in property in the west, or maybe those that were in the know have already done just that.

[89 steps to heaven]

Anyone know if the Tower coverage will be increased to accomodate the higher movements?

Or will this be the worlds first uncontrolled Jet hub.

Be interesting if NAS2c ever gets a run!!!!

[Johhny Utah]

Orville

The lack of terminal facilities didn't seem to hurt DJ in their early (and then not so early!) days of operation. I remember dropping mates off & seeing people lined up in the rain outside the tin shed there in Sydney. Not to forget the tent circus that was set up as their terminal in newcastle. I believe Adelaide travellers were also treated to a 'basic' style of terminal building. But look at the end result - it didn't seem to mater as long as the fares were cheap...:bored:

I'm guessing that in 12 months time much the same will be true for J* as well. It will be interesting to see how long DJ can match the J* low fares & still maintain/make a profit (especially with the new disclosure rules that they must meet as a publicly owned company). Especially in light of the rumours as to just how close they came to the wall last time there was a real air-fare war...:uhoh:

[QSK?]

89 Steps to Heaven:

Or will this be the worlds first uncontrolled Jet hub.

Ayers Rock and Broome MBZs are already uncontrolled jet hubs!

[ferris]

Orville.
No, one runway for arrivals, one for departures. Does it matter how many runways, if the airshow is overhead the airport?
Uncontrolled? Watch the game boys.

[Pedota]

Union threatens Jetstar launch

February 26, 2004
A KEY aviation union has threatened to ground Australia's newest budget airline over its use of Victoria's Avalon Airport.

The Transport Workers Union said the union's agreement with Jetstar did not involve running the service out of Avalon, 55km west of Melbourne.

"We cut the deal on the basis that Jetstar was going to be serviced out of Melbourne Airport," TWU federal secretary John Allan said.

"That's what they accepted and with that equation being changed, it's just put the whole deal in jeopardy."

Mr Allen said he was due to meet management at Jetstar's parent company Qantas today in an attempt to rescue the deal.

"If they haven't got an agreement with the TWU, it's going to be very difficult to service Jetstar and to keep some sort of cooperation between the TWU and Qantas throughout Australia," he said.

The Australian
26 February 2004

[Pimp Daddy]

The Transport Workers Union said the union's agreement with Jetstar did not involve running the service out of Avalon, 55km west of Melbourne.

"We cut the deal on the basis that Jetstar was going to be serviced out of Melbourne Airport,"

Yes and they are servicing the JetStar flights out of Melbourne.

They wern't consulted on the Avalon one because I'd say they won't be having anything to do with it.

[RAGHAM]

It's also most likely that the union was not told about AV for secrecy reasons.

You could imagine how quickly the cat would have been let out of the bag if that sort of info was disclosed to the wrong people.

The payment from the media for the leak would have probably financed a few union members holidays.......

Well done by those involved in keeping it quiet. I'm sure the TWU people will come around, they may have to.:ok:

[nzer]

Has anyone considere that lower Airport/Terminal charges at YMAV v YMML may be a significant component in cost reductions - just reflect on Ryan Air's use of "satellite" fields in Europe. I for one am all in favour of the monopolistic airport companies being given the message aboutb their "rape and pillage" approcah to airport charges where they have a monopoly. Similarly in NZ I certainly hiope the NZWP is developed as a Tasman/regional airport to break the ANZZ stranglehold and significant impact on operatings costs on this side of the Tasman.

[Buster Hyman]

You'd be better off running a car ferry.;)

[regitaekilthgiwt]

. . . . . . . . or just swim

[Don Esson]

I reckon the proposals to use of Avalon and Richmond are not much more than kite flying exercises and a not so subtle message to the onwers of Melbourne and Sydney Airports to be not so greedy with their user charges. Canberra soon killed off the idea of Richmond and the punters via market research etc will see Avalon go the same way. What's the betting that Avalaon will quietly be forgotten?