CAA Accreditation

[snafu]

Can anyone enlighten me why military pilots have to achieve 2000 hours to claim the CAA accreditation towards an ATPL? I have no problem with having to do the exams, the tests and everything else, but it just seems a bit harsh to ask us for an extra 500 hours over and above the average Strawb pilot. (OK, before anyone else says it, I know this is nothing new in the Forces!!;) )

One assumption about asking for more experience from a military pilot is that they consider our training to be of lower quality and the flying that we do to be of lesser value - both of which I think are bo**ocks, so why do they do it?

BEagle, I know you had some comms with the 'system' when this arrangement was set up, do you have any info that you could let me know?

[brit bus driver]

Are you referring to the accreditation as a QSP whereby you only need to take the Air Law exam, a medical, and a rating after which the CAA will give you a nice green book? Seems a bit of a billy bargain to me. Remember, the bod off the street needs 1500 hrs, and has to sit all the exams etc.

Of course, if you're referring to something completely different, I shall return to my box forthwith.

All misunderstandings are largely due to insomnia caused by 3-week old son...........:zzz:

[BEagle]

The idea was for it to be a recruting and retention incentive - not just a free (well, almost) pass to civvy street. Hence with average flying rates, it meant that the ME pilot would be around 34-ish by the time 2000TT had been achieved - basic training, AFT, OCU, a tour as a co-pilot, another 2 as a captain plus perhaps some QFI time. Around 4 flying tours, a good return on initial investment and 2000TT should be achievable.

The accreditation assumed theory and practice. Those disadvantaged would probably be those who didn't give so much return of service as pilots by spending their best years scribbling somewhere in an attempt to crawl up the 'career' ladder. Sorry...but such folk probably wouldn't be interested in ATPLs in any case.

Surely 500 hours is achievable on an average flying tour these days?

I understand that there's been a good take-up amongst some of our 'world travellers' whose routes these days are either Akrotiri or MPA.....

So for:
2000TT
Graduating from an 'approved' OCU
Achieving 1500 P1 (of which 1000 must be as P1C) on 'approved' ME ac.
Passing just the one exam (Air Law)
Obtaining a Class 1 Medical (can be done at your RMC providing that the doc is a CAA AME)
Having a CAA Examiner observe a routine IRT

plus filling out the form and parting with a few hundred quid, you get a JAR-FCL ATPL with IR and type rating.

A very good deal - but you have to stay in long enough to earn it! Nothing to do with the 'quality' of training, all to do with the achievement of relevant experience. Low level NVG work with underslung loads whilst being shot at isn't viewed as being relevant for commercial passenger transort flying - even though it is undoubtedly a very high quality skill. So there is a really big problem with RW seeking FW accreditation as there's nothing in JAR-FCL which covers it. I don't know how efforts are progressing (if at all) on that front as the chap who was chiefly involved at Binnsworth moved on and his job was merged with others. Try to find out from your DO who the contact is for the MoD/CAA Working Group on pilot licensing. Sadly I fear that there may not be one....

Congrats on the howling pink rugrat, bbd!

[The Nr Fairy]

snafu:

You don't say if you've checked LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS.PDF) - it's about 5Mb so may take a while to download, and needs Acrobat Reader to view.

Section D (Commercial Licences), in particular D3 and D6, relates to QSPs, both fixed and rotary.

As an aside, I'd like to follow up on BEagle's comments about the quality of, and skills imparted by, military training. But it's been done loads of times in the past so I won't, except to say that civil and military training are geared relevant to the job requirement. Of more import in both worlds are the attitude and ability of the individual.

[MOSTAFA]

Spot on Beags, as usual. The only person to raise this question at commitee was dressed in green and was totally backed by his counterpart from the senior service. The CAA were much more accommodating than most could believe. Underlying tones all came from Binsworth. Retention, retention, retention.

[OldBonaMate]

I was the first CAA secretary of the MoD/CAA working group and I can confirm that retention was the MoD agenda whereas mine, as the dogsbody who did a lot of the staff work, was to try and get a fair deal for military aviators. The work was not complete when I moved on, but what you have now was in the late stages of completion.

Remember, way back the only military pilots who got any concessions were members of the truckie world and everybody else had to do all the exams etc; thank goodness things have now changed.

OBTW Snafu, theoretically, you can still get a JAR ATPL with 1500 hours, provided they are correctly distributed and you have completed the required courses of formal training, but you will not get accreditation for anything military other than your flight time.

[Black 'n Yellar]

As someone who is too lazy to trawl through all the CAA documentation, are there any accrediataions for FJ time, or is it just ME time that counts?

[artyhug]

http://www.tgda.gov.uk/CAA_Accreditation/CAAAccreditation.htm

and all shall be revealed........