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tony draper
28th Jul 2001, 13:47
Theres a thread elsewhere comenting on the fatness of some people.
I was thinking that some genetic mutation has occured in the last couple of decades.
When Draper was a young tadpole, the young seemed to be striving for altitiude, each new bunch seemed to get taller.
That appears to have come to a grinding halt and nature now seems to have directed the human form in a lateral direction.
As someone said just take a gander at people on that appalling Jerry Springer show, I know they are mostly American, but remember what happens stateside tends to show up here within a decade.
People are becoming huge, it can't be a matter of diet, if you have read any of the {Those where the days} thread you will see that my generations diet was the mostly pure stodge, every class at school had its one kid kid called fatty, nowadays it must be the lone skinny lad who gets taunted with na,na,na nana, skinny skinny.
What is the cause of this genetic shift, diet? greed? junk food?.
It doesn't help that large ladies wear those hideous leggings, and that young men wear those daft baggy shorts that looks like the dust cover off the stealth bomber.
Incidently Draper still weighs 9 1/2 stone, thats half a stone heavier than when he left school, and he loves strawberry tarts and such and has never been on a diet in his life.
na,na,nana,na fatty fatty. :rolleyes:


ps,Re the extra half stone, what can one do?
when you have a seven pound willy your stuck with it. ;)

[ 28 July 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

Tartan Gannet
28th Jul 2001, 14:09
Tony , 30 years ago when a young Gannet left the nest and flew south he weighed in at 8.5 stone and had a 28 inch waist and was 5'7" tall. Now is 5' 8" but weighs in at 15.5 stone and has a 46 inch waistline. Im a lot happier being fat than when I was thin.

The reasons? Lager, lots of food, all the stuff that would give a dietician a nightmare. I do exercise by riding a bicycle to work and back 5 days a week 7 miles a day and walk a lot. Gave up smoking 14 years ago.

I have to say I prefer fat people, especially women as skinny birds do absolutely nothing for me, I cant even "raise a laugh" with a thin woman never mind anything else! ;)

Now I blame fad and fashion. Look back in history when being well rounded was considered a good thing, even when I was a kid it was the bouncy, plumpish kids that everyone admired, "He's a big bonnie lad, eats everything put in front of him" etc, etc.

I detest the professional misery guts who pontificate about our diet and do the exact opposite of what they advise. I make a point of muting their patronising adverts on the TV. In the end we all die so Id rather eat and drink what I enjoy and live a shorter life than reach 90+ having had to eat Rabbit Food and deny myself the pleasures of a drink here and there. I side with Caesar "let me have men around me that at fat".

Im not a parent but I if I was I would be a lot happier with a teenage daughter who was a bit on the plump side and quite happy that way than some poor anorexic secretly making herself sick or using laxatives to lose weight that wasnt there in the first place. Let's ditch this "skinny supermodel" body image and be happy as we are, fat,thin or in between.

tony draper
28th Jul 2001, 15:19
I agree Mr G, Thats the way nature intended things to go, once you reached a certain age and you had slain more than your quota of Mammoths, inseminated your share of the ladies,spread your seed, passed on your genetic material,protected the young ones from the sabretooth until they could fend for themselves, it was time to take your ease at the campfire, shoot the breeze take the piss out of the young hunters,gnaw on that extra buffalo leg,shagging has become a recreation rather than a duty, a little laying down of extra strata of flesh is to be expected at this time
Its the young I'm talking about, at best they look like rugby players by the time they are 16, you just know they are heading for sumo wrestler body plan in later life.
I fully agree with your assesement on larger ladies, I think Caroline Quentine is one of the sexiest ladies on tv at the moment, also Lorrain Kelly, Draper has a deep case of lust over miss Kelly.
I also have always prefered more mature ladies, never had much time for these silly giggly young things,ladies don't light up until they are at least thirty, they don't get that certain glint in their eyes until they are forty. give me a large older lady every time.
The obesity I was trying to describe is inflicted by nature and is a recent inovation on mommy natures part,, your increased girth has been honourably earned at the cost of many hangovers, and aching stomachs.

Spread sideways and prosper. :rolleyes:

[ 28 July 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

Slasher
29th Jul 2001, 00:56
Ever since I was flung (kicking and screaming) into the over-40s geriatric pit last year, it means more exercise for me to keep the weight down. Aparrantly my metabolisms slowing down with age. If I eat and drink the same amount of food and p!ss with no aerobic activity increase, Ill put on weight and Ive bunged on 1.5kg alreadey! Im a f*ckin slob. :(
And horror of horrors! To add further misery the fat around my groin has resulted in an apparant decrease in dick length by 1/5"!! :eek: The dicks trunk roots (pun not intended) are quite deep and any excess lard above it will make ones slug appear smaller!

tony draper
29th Jul 2001, 01:13
Well the trick is to eat as much as you like only don't swallow it. :rolleyes:

trolleydollylover
29th Jul 2001, 01:53
This is something that means alot to me. So I may have to reply later when I am sober, However as I have always kept fit just through lifestyle not just running etc, I dispare at how some people are gluttons and disgusting when most of the world still is in a cycle of subsistance. I know I do not have a leg to stand on here as I probably live a bad example, but I do not make excuses.
I get evry annoyed at people who say that it is a gland problem or it is in their genes. What a load of Bollox. When was the last time that you heard of a fat person who died of malnutrition.....never [email protected]@@@@@ ever. So get down private Pile and leave the jellied donuts in the cookhouse.

I believe that obesity should be treated the same as smokers and banned from restaurants and airlines, that would save on fuel, and you wouldn't have to listern to some glutton slaveing and weezing for breath over the food that they can quite obviously do without.

Fatties short your ***** out.

I will look at this in the morning when I get a chance.

LatviaCalling
29th Jul 2001, 02:12
It's got to be metabolism. In my 30s I used to have a 30" waist. I was skinny. In my 40s, surprise, surprise, I suddenly grew to a 34" waist. Now, in my 50s, whoa, I've grown to a 36" waist.

I don't drink anymore than before and I don't eat anymore than before, but the beer belly is taking a good shape. I look like I'm five months pregnant. Oh, Lord, I hope not.

Flypro
29th Jul 2001, 02:34
I have an excuse for being porky.

Having hit the big 50 with a rapidly expanding girth - due mainly to too little exercise and much to much food & wine, my doctor tells me I have an underactive thyroid!!!
This means I am EXPECTED to be lethargic and rotund :p

Eric
29th Jul 2001, 02:44
Flypro, where can you get these magical devices? :)

tony draper
29th Jul 2001, 02:46
Nah, I think its got to be something genetic and comparitivly recent.
I have read that certain races ie the polynesian people have metabolisms that cannot handle sugar, and they are a huge people, they were not like that in Cooks time.
Seems to me that American negro's seem to be going the same way, leastwise the ones on that bloody Springer show they seem to be all walking mountains.
I'm not talking about middle age spread, this seems to be something thats starting at a much younger age.

henry crun
29th Jul 2001, 03:17
My feeling, for what its worth, is that in many cases it is the habit of eating whenever the opportunity presents itself that is the cause of many peoples problems.
I grew up in a poor family, though I didn't realise it at the time, and we had three good meals a day at the usual times and nothing in between.
I have carried this habit through life, and believe me I'm no spring chicken, and my weight for height is what the experts say it should be.
It still surprises me at the amount of food a lot of people eat between meals when their body obviously doesn't need it.
I also think that the regular fatty diet that many indulge in, particularly in the relatively recent availability of cheap fast food, contributes to their overweight problems.

tony draper
29th Jul 2001, 03:43
You may have somehing there Mr C, there were three mealtimes when I was a sprog. breakfast, dinner and tea,all sitty down at table meals, we never bothered with supper, perhaps a cup of cocoa.
Nowadays you see people eating off trays in front of the telly all the time, and at seemingly random times, I'm guilty of this myself.
Not sure about the fat in our diet, every thing was cooked in lard in those days,every thing was full fat,I would think the foodstuffs themselves are much healthier nowadays, none fat this, and diet that.
It seems the more obsessed with diet and health we become the worse shape we are getting into, and men especialy seem to be popping of at a earlier age than a couple of generations ago,leastwise I seem to have lost a lot of friends and aquaintances in their early fifties,or it could be I just notice it more now.
I am sure statistics will prove me wrong.

[ 28 July 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

henry crun
29th Jul 2001, 04:10
Tony D: got to agree with you about those on US chat shows. Ye gods, if womens sumo wrestling ever catches on no other country would get a look in.

[ 29 July 2001: Message edited by: henry crun ]

Blacksheep
29th Jul 2001, 06:17
Breakfast: three rashers of bacon and two fried eggs on fried bread, with baked beans. Three Weetabix with plenty of sugar and full cream milk. Followed by two slices of toast with butter and jam (jelly to the Yanks) all washed down with a pint of very sweet milky coffee.

Morning tea break: A cup of sweet milky coffee with either a large slab of cake with (pink!) icing on top or an individual steak pie.

Dinner: (we never had lunch, Brats were working class!) Two or three huge pork sausages, a monster scoop of soggy chips, baked beans (Yes. Again!) Steamed pudding spotted dick or chocolate pudding perhaps - with rice pudding poured over the top. A big chunk of cheese with a couple of slices of toast. Washed down with a pint of very sweet tea in a big mug.

Afternoon Tea break: Same as morning tea break.

Tea: Fried Corned beef slabs in Batter, two big scoops of mashed potato, peas, cabbage, carrots, thick gravy over the top. A big knob of butter melted into the spuds to make them taste of something. Washed down with a pint of very sweet tea. Three slices of toast plastered in Jam and another mug of tea as a takeaway.

Evening snack: Down to the "Tank" for a pint of milk and a steak and onion pie before turning in. Well its been nearly three hours without food you know?

Those who know the meaning of my signature will recognise "The Brat's" normal diet. The typical Brat was about 5' 9" tall and weighed 10 stone (140 lbs) and was PERMANENTLY hungry. Waist would be 30" max and there wasn't an ounce of spare fat on the body anywhere, it was nearly all muscle. The three years of constant marching, running, sport and physical fitness training may have had something to do with it. Even when we went to the Rose and Crown in Wendover we walked there and we walked back. (Actually, we walked everywhere because we couldn't afford transport. "Right you lot! Form up in threes, I'll march you there to save you walking!" :) ) I'm sure the same conditions applied in the Army and Navy. Meanwhile, in civilian life, a coal miner was reckoned to burn off 5,000 calories a day. Steel workers and ship builders just as much. For the 20% of us that were on the dole, lack of money lowered the calorie intake. In the war and the most of the 1950s we had food rationing anyway, so childhood memories of a fatty diet is most probably wishful thinking, while taunting "Fatty" was a way of hitting out at Black Marketeers.

So, for our generation it was a matter of lifestyle. Sure we ate massive amounts of fatty foods once the rationing ended, but we also burned off massive amounts of calories in our daily activities. I reckon it's the sedentary modern lifestyle that causes the obesity that Draper has noticed.

**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

JetAgeHobo
29th Jul 2001, 09:07
I blame it on qutting smoking. Yea, that's it, quitting smoking, that's why I gained 8 kilo in the past 6 months,

Now I know what being pregnant feels like.

God I hope I can lose it when I'm in China next month. Already some doubt as to wheather I can fit my fat arse in a Chinese taxi.

--------------------------------------------
It's not a matter of where I am, it's a matter of when I am

Kermit 180
29th Jul 2001, 09:27
Like Tony I am built like a racing tadpole, yet I eat the most amazing amounts of food (my staple diet seems to be Burger King and McDonalds for lunch during the week). Now I either have a high metabolism (the doctors seem to think so) or I have developed a natural resistance against fat. I'd actually like to gain some kilos, but I'm happy enough being who I am.

Kermie :)

Tartan Gannet
29th Jul 2001, 11:10
Kermit, that's the main thing, being happy as you are. So am I.

As a kid and a teenager I was bullied for being skinny, all ribs and bones at about 8 stone, the architypal kid who gets the sand kicked in his face. Now being heavily enough built I am generally left alone. Im a lot happier in myself being a bit overweight and totally ignore all these height to weight charts, healthy eating guides etc. My rules of eating are very simple. I eat when I am hungry, not to set feeding times, and eat what I like not what others try to force on me.

On the aspect of not eating to set times, this is now commonplace and a result of the change to the work patterns of our society. The comfy picture of what I call the 1950s to mid 1960s "Ovalteenies Family" with Dad the wage earner coming home at about 5.30pm with his stay at home wife and two children waiting for him then a meal being served up at about 6.00pm round a table is gone for ever. Many people work shifts, most wives also have to work, children have after school activities, homework classes etc at school and these people will eat when they get a break or all at different times when the need and opportunity arises. The ritual of the Family Meal has gone and I for one do NOT mourn its passing.

So should we be worried about the rise in the number of fat people? I say no. In the past we have had people of all shapes, endomorphs and ectomorphs. Obviously there are certain vested interests who gain by making a big issue of fatness. The Health Food Industry, Fashion Magazines and Advisors, Gym Operators, Dieticians etc all gain by making us obsessed about our weight and shape. Unless grossly obese and thus having a medical problem and under Doctors Orders, or having some specific condition which prohibits certain foods eg Coeliac, Diabetic, HBP, LI, Nut Allergy, etc, I advise people to ignore the so called experts and be themselves and be happy.

Finally I offer two examples of fitness types coming off worse, one general and one personal. We all know of the fate of the inventor of jogging- he died at a relatively young age while indulging in this futile pursuit. The second example from my own experience. About 15 years ago I worked with a man the same age as myself, (then 33) but the exact opposite in activities. He didnt smoke, I did then, he ate the "healthy" options in the canteen, he went jogging every lunchtime, when I sometimes went for a pie and a pint. Not a pound over his ideal weight. Now one Sunday he was taking part in a half marathon, he got to the finishing line, collapsed and died. His heart had a defect which the strain had ruptured. Had he lived a sedentary lifestyle he could be alive today.

So if its coming for you it wont pass you by, my advice is to enjoy life, while not going to excess, and be happy as you are, NOT as others would try to force you to be.

To all the size 16 to 22 girls out there a big hug from TG

:) :) :) ;) :D

[ 29 July 2001: Message edited by: Tartan Gannet ]

Mr Creosote
30th Jul 2001, 07:08
I think one cause is the misleading labelling and advertising used. People see a label saying "97% fat-free" and think that means the item will make a nice healthy snack, but when you look closely at the ingredients list, you find that in order to make the thing edible the manufacturers have loaded it up with sugar, or something equally as bad.

Slasher
30th Jul 2001, 07:32
I go about 7 to 8km on the rare days I have the oportunity to jog, but can someone tell me will I lose weight if I maintain the same p!ss intake but cut back on food?

Squiddley
30th Jul 2001, 07:42
I'm not fat, I just have big bones and excess skin. :D

On the other hand , I love going to the US of A coz it makes me feel oh-so-slim-and-trim.

Capt Vegemite
30th Jul 2001, 08:45
I reckon I'm not fat ...just under tall at 6'1" and scalin' in at 18 stone.
Dont have many people poke sh!t at me about it tho. :p

Oh..and slasher mate try and avoid the candied deep fried rat in sweet and sour sauce washed down with a dozen bia 333.

[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: Capt Vegemite ]

Boh'ban
30th Jul 2001, 09:02
What about a conspiracy theory?
Think about it? In the "good old days" there was hardly any of these so called healthy eating products now, you have to sift through mountains of low fat, reduced fat, soy pish to find a bottle of real milk in the supermarket. As Mr Creosote pointed out, ok all these new products are fat free etc but what's the story with all the other additives? What if these products were designed not to work but actually create the opposite result? If the product worked, no one would need to keep on buying it and therefor eventually the billion dollar "health / diet industry" would become all but extinct. Using another billion dollar giant evil con, the fashion industry, as the perfect advertising tool, these people are coining it in.

You want it when?
30th Jul 2001, 12:01
At 6'3' and 18stone I'm told I could do with losing a couple of stone. I walk about three miles a day in a suit - from the office to the station and that is about it for exercise. I feel fit enough, well enough and happy enough so nuts to all slimmers. Of course the C150 I'm learning to fly in goes up very slowly, with a full fuel load - strange comments from the instructor about needing more power or possibly learning to fly on a twin...

Has anyone found full-fat yoghurts in a supermarket recently? My son (three) doesn't need to slim but all I can find a blasted 99% fat free, taste free stuff.

Final comment - what is the point of diet, caffeine free coke?

swashplate
30th Jul 2001, 12:20
With me it's the amount of cycling/running I do.

Not c/r at the moment 'coz it's too 'ot, so waist increases. :eek:

When milder, cycle to train station and back, then maybe jog in evening, so waist decreases!

Its that simple:

less execercise = waist increases

....and vice-versa!!


BTW, I eat like a horse!!!!! :D :D :D :D

tony draper
30th Jul 2001, 12:55
RE the addatives in food, I wish the buggers would put all that preservative artificial coloring that mono sodium stuff back in.
Draper has a liking for stuff like pickled beetroot red cabbage ect, open a jar now and unless you eat it at once, it turns into black mush in a day, same with jam or marmalade,once opened it starts growing peniciline in two days, we never had to keep stuff like that in the fridge.
Bet this suits the manufacturers, they must be over the moon, a built in self destruct mechanism. :mad:
Your ok Mr Swash, Hay keeps a long time
;)

[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

Capt Vegemite
30th Jul 2001, 15:18
Er...Draper does one eat pickled beetroot,cabbage and marmalade on toast?
Strewth.. thought I was the only one!
:)

tony draper
30th Jul 2001, 16:35
Yeh, Capn, always been one of the unanswered questions of the universe, why do certain foods go so perfectly together?.
Double egg and chips, steak with mushrooms,
mashed potatoes and steepy peas, pickled red cabbage and marmalade.
Seriously my old grandad would have his yorkshire pudding with jam on before his sunday dinner?.
O C B would undoubtedly ascribe some divine plan in this.
Incidently, big mistake those heathen religions made, forbiding their followers the delights of pork, imagine a life without pork chops or bacon, small wonder they are always killing each other, and are apparently happy to blow themselves up. ;)

[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

FlyingForFun
30th Jul 2001, 18:14
Well, at 5'10" and 17.5 stone, I knew I was overweight, but I enjoyed my food too much to do anything about it. That was until I tried to buy a pair of trousers, and couldn't find any to fit - that's when I knew I had to so something...

5 months later, after actually eating some of this low-fat stuff that I wouldn't even look at before, I'm down to around 15 stone. I still drink once or twice a week. I still go to McDonalds, but much less often and I don't buy as much when I'm there.

But I finally learnt why my waist went from 32" (aged 18) to 40" (aged 25) - it's because I had got into the habit of eating when I wasn't hungry. I'd sit at work, munching on a sandwitch, not because I was hungry but because I was bored. I'd get to the station, see that I had 15 minutes before my train was ready, so I'd buy a burger to eat while I was waiting.

I'm looking forward to getting rid of the gut that I've built up over the last few years, so that I can stop buying the low-fat crap that I've been eating for the last few months and go back to eating real food again - but only when I'm actually ready to eat food, and only the amount that I actually need.

To answer the original question - I think that's why there are so many more fat kids now than there used to be. Nothing genetic about it, it's just that there's more food around now than there was then. Kids eat more than any of us did when we were kids, so they're fatter. I eat more now than I did when I was a kid, so I'm fatter. And I dare say the same applies to T.G., if he stops and thinks about it for a minute?

FFF
--------

Diablo
30th Jul 2001, 18:47
I wonder how long it will be before the UK flying fraternity adopt the same approach as our US cousins, that is no matter how big a gut you develop, just keep hitching it up and out of the way, keep buying those size 30" trousers and then try and hold it all in with a titanium reinforced belt. Cleverly disguised as a black leather one.

When I pointed out to a 50 plus first officer on Delta that I was about to file an Air Safety Report on his 40" waist drooping over a pair of 30" pants because if his belt gave way, he was going to take out most of the flight deck, he didn't get the point, the Captain and Flight Eng (both skinny) were crying in the aisle.

The UK seems to be about 10 years behind the US so I give it 2-3 more years.

:p :p :p

[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: Diablo ]

RW-1
30th Jul 2001, 18:49
"I yam what I yam .."
- Popeye the Aviator
(Prior to his sailing antics)

Lots of water a day makes one stay a slim boy. Excercise and a moderate portioning of food.

Send Clowns
31st Jul 2001, 01:02
Today's dieting trivia : did you know that Kellog's Special K has more calories than the same weight of Cornflakes? :confused:

Chimbu chuckles
31st Jul 2001, 06:00
Here's one for you. A Captain I used to fly with was so overweight that one day when he dropped his pen in the crew room he couldn't bend down and retrieve it. His collesterol was out of control etc and the Doc said lose weight or lose the licence/die etc.
Solution?
He went on a protein only diet!

Breakfast was a 3 egg cheese omelette and a couple of steaks and black coffee,

Lunch was a couple of steaks(at Least) with a small portion of salad and about a gallon of cold beer(the ONLY THING he wouldn't give up)

Dinner as per lunch!

Plenty of swimming,walking etc saw him shed about 50 kgs in 6 months, I sh!t you not,he looked positively gaunt as being older the skin didn't 'take up'.

Initially his Doc(also my Doc) said "NO NO, deadly dangerous, it'll kill you etc" but his collesterol came back to normal values as well.

I read the book from which the diet came and the 'Doctor' who wrote its claims to this 'discovery' and some of it doesn't ring true. Like the one that says ancient man ate virtually no carbohydrates and almost exclusively protein. What bollocks Wooly Mammoths etc were bloody hard to catch with sharpened sticks and stone axes, but I digress.

What did ring true was that modern man eats WAY to much suger, from memory the figures were 100kgs more/yr at the end of the 20th century than at the beginning. Food manufacturers use tons of the stuff as cheap 'filler'.

Also apparently the body needs very little carb(a long chain suger by the way) for proper function and anymore that we feed in gets stored as fat for when 'times are tough'(ie the Mammoths migrate)

The diet far from being revolutionary was merely an extreme version of The Drinking Mans diet and a few others that were high protein/low carbohydrate diets.

On the world wide phenomenon of increasing weight. Isn't it curious that the 'experts tell us to eat more carb and less fat and we'll lose weight, the average person is eating 'better' than our forefathers and yet we're all getting fatter!

I tried this diet and did lose weight but couldn't stick to it for more than a week or so before needing a Pizza or some such, and it's a bland diet really although I love steak and salad.

I'm about 16 kgs over my ideal weight(MY ideal not the sports pyscopaths) and drink WAY to much Coke and until recently drank WAY WAY to much beer(oh hang on that's impossible :D) and don't excercise enough.I'm 6'2" and until I was about 28 was 77kg, now approaching 40 and 97kg. The difference? When I was in my teens and early 20s I sailed and surfed and waterskied and windsurfed and walked 'cause I couldn't afford a car. Now I fly aeroplanes and drink coke and beer lots :D

Of course on the other hand excercise nuts will tell you that they will live 10% longer...I agree but they'll spend that 10% excecising :D :D

Me thinks there's a happy medium!

Chuck.