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View Full Version : Who in their right mind would buy this!!


VP8
17th Feb 2004, 21:59
Nice though :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4672&item=3078910291

VEEPS

eal401
17th Feb 2004, 22:02
No-one by the looks of the number of bids!

Hmm, fibre optic cable for $4.4m? Bargain!

topcat450
17th Feb 2004, 22:15
If I had Bill Gates's money I'd have one!! Imagine bouncing the RAF Trainees on thier first solo Hawk sorties, hmmm, you could easily get yourself into all sorts of trouble with one of those.:E

Boss Raptor
18th Feb 2004, 01:34
Tut...that's an old one...borrow a 29SMT with my big boss at work MFD's and a few tweaks :ok:

That 'old' one is so passe' :E

JustaFew
18th Feb 2004, 07:45
What does The Russian at CATC think?

Just the right equipment for 'intercepting' zone infringers:)

Send Clowns
18th Feb 2004, 08:22
Not entirely sure it's aimed at people in their right minds :p Says it is subject to export controls - how do you stop someone determined exporting something like this? :ooh:

Boss Raptor
18th Feb 2004, 17:07
I would think the radar, mission mngt. computer and databus have been removed making it quite useless. Most of the 'A' version is obsolete anyway as they cannot be upgraded easily (that one looks like a Block 9.12b aircraft which are being parted out in Russia, 9.13 and above can be upgraded) unlike the later 'M' which replaced it and is now in upgrade programme to -29SMT or SMT-II version

An interesting flying bomb that's about it

Chaffers
18th Feb 2004, 21:31
As I recall the engines only have a useful life of 400 hours and have to be completely replaced after that time so figure in another $5m or so.

Boss Raptor
18th Feb 2004, 21:42
Another urban myth/misinformation (although the e-bay ad says nothing about the engine status on that aircraft)

The original production batch of engines were limited to 400 hours TBO until in-service sampling, testing and modification allowed life extension

Current TBO on current production/mod. standard Klimov/Sarkisov RD-33 turbofans is 2000 hours which they are easily achieving and reliability and tolerances equal their western counterparts. Engine service overhaul costs around $800K each including all replacement, re-lifed parts etc., much less than their western counterparts :*

Chaffers
18th Feb 2004, 22:00
Indeed Boss, but seeing as though the airframe is an early production A model I'd expect its engines to match rather than having the latest production standard.

As I recall the early engine models were not designed to be refurbished, merely replaced.

Boss Raptor
18th Feb 2004, 22:18
Again not true...another bit of mis-information...

The way the Russian system works is simple, an engine or airframe is given a 'Service Life' at which it is then returned to the manufacturer completely re-built and 'zero timed' and returned to you or given to someone else...just like we did until the 60's but more in depth.

When/if the Klimov engines on that e-bay Mig-29 went back for service life overhaul they would have been brought fully up to date with latest parts and modification standard...hence my previous point that the maintenance status of that aircrafts' engines are critical to any (professional) buyer (or seller) (who knows what they are doing).

Recently the likes of the TU154 etc. have been placed on western style maintenance programmes which are more progressive in nature removing the service life overhaul...now they get a 'service life extension check', the TU204 being designed for this from the outset...the same being true of the PS90 engine which is 'on condition' with shop visit type maintenance.

Anything else you'd like to know about the -29 I'll ask my mates at Mig for you (if I dont know) :E

Chaffers
18th Feb 2004, 23:22
Thats all fair enough for the latest engines in military service, though I can't see a private owner being in a position to modify the aircraft to accept the latest Sarkisevs. I can't imagine any way you could disabled the Fadec for a start.

The original R-33 turbojets, as used by the Indians in their early model A's, were noted for premature failure and almost treated as throwaway once failures had arisen, if memory serves. Then again as a 400 hour mean time between overhauls involves a complete rebuild at the manufacturers it really is a question of semantics, though a large number of replacement engines was included in the contract for just this reason.

Its no reflection on Russian engineering, merely a different take on maintenance. Producing lots of low hour rated engines keeps the engine manufacturer on a perpetual war production footing and provides for spares to simply be slotted in rather than individual parts of the engine fixed. I would assume that the latest variants of the R-33 are for export with such a relatively long mtbo.

Any idea how much a Su-27 would set me back?

Boss Raptor
19th Feb 2004, 00:57
A private owner is going to be stuffed in more ways than one if those engines aren't of the updated build/mod. standard. hence my comments re buyer and seller...as one would assume FAA will insist on current mod. status regardless of engine hours?!

It is not a question of modifying the aircraft in anyway...you must modify the engines. Their were problems with premature failure (as with most new military engines) and the mods. appear to have overcome these as well as installing non smokey combustors etc. The Indians would have exchanged their failed engines with fresh engines from Klimov under the service life overhaul programme as detailed above and would have been covered under a pre-agreed warranty exchange plan.

The original Indian aircraft were Block 9.12B (downgraded A model for export) aircraft delivered 87 and a few Block 9.51(UB trainer) aircraft in 87 also. The Indians would have exchanged their failed engines with fresh engines from Klimov under the service life overhaul programme as detailed above

The 400 hours TBO was very quickly raised to 750 hours thence to 2000 hours by 1995 for new and subsequent Service Life Overhauled engines which would have been upgraded during the overhaul

Basic SU-27 new rumoured to be $31 million...but Rozboronexport wouldnt sell u one :{ :{

Chaffers
19th Feb 2004, 01:02
:{

Not even if they took all the interesting electronicy bits out? I promise I'll play with it nicely and be home by tea.

:(

Boss Raptor
19th Feb 2004, 01:32
Personally I fancy the SU32 Strike Fighter version, two seats for taking the babe for a 'ride...you want it hard baby...yeah'

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~junap95/attack/images/su34big.jpg

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~junap95/attack/images/su34-1.jpg

Paint it black and I reckon it should be called the 'Bat Plane'

Unfortunately I only get access to MIG's :rolleyes: