Who will use Heathrow T4?

[Localiser Green]

Once BA move to T5, presumably with the other oneworld carriers like American and Cathay, who will move over to T4?

Star Alliance perhaps, or are there too many of them?

[colegate]

It is my understanding that Star Alliance will move over. Star movements are predominatelt short haul so this might mean some remodelling of T4. When they have moved there will probably be some rebuilding of the central area.

[WHBM]

There certainly are a lot of Star carriers at Heathrow - about a dozen. But it seems that T2 might make a better base for them. There is a perception that T4 is rather out of the way, and difficult for connections to the Central Area, which might impact on BMIs short-haul business.

Also, what will happen to the bulk of T1 when BA European/Domestic and Aer Lingus move out ? Presumably there will still be a lot of construction activity after T5 opens as all the other terminals are remodelled and reshuffled.

And will we get runway 23 back because there will no longer be the need to park the T4 overflow at its southern end ?

[no, no, no]

as T1 is mainly taken up by BA & bmi at the moment, I though once BA move, STAR alliance would base themselves primarily out of T1 - with no BA there will be a lot of empty spaces around!!!!

Be interesting to see who will fill T4 though as I wouldn't have thought there is enough unless AF/KL/AZ etc take it on along with Virgin??

[Globaliser]

I've heard that T5 will not be big enough for all of oneworld. As it stands that would be a long list already - AA, AY, CX, EI, LX and QF as well as BA, with JL a significant possibility. So some OW ops are still going to have to be in another terminal, even if BA finally consolidates into one location.

*A may just take all of T3.

The other factor in moving operators about may be the rebuilding that will need to be done at the older terminals if there's going to be 100% segregation of arriving and departing streams. I would imagine that few of them will want to move twice.

[rutankrd]

Suspect that domestics may well stay in T1.
Remaining area of T1 for Star Partnership I know that United have expressed a preference to moving there.So thats BD/SK/LH/AC as well !
T3 to be remodeled. This really is the terminal which might be up for grabs huge building and it might well mean AA have to remain or a least keep some flight here. perhaps joined by Iberia and Swiss partners.
T2 refurbished but remaining much as is on airline front.
T4 to KLM/Air France/Alitalia/Korean and perhaps Virgin. would be ideal for them !
I say Virgin coz they are a point to point and T4 access so much better for land side access !
By the time T5 open perhaps Delta will have got
access from Brussels as they bin Bermuda 2 ! so fitting into T4.Same for North West !
Such a rearrangement seems to make sense.
T5 obviously BA and Alliance partners as many as can fit in QF/CX for certain !

[wingattack]

WHBM:


I think the new parking area just SE of 23 is too close to the r/w. Also, they 've just put up a blast fence there (but that might be to protect the construction guys from us!). The runway is NOTAMed closed at the moment till end of March ish but I hear that it will never re open. There seems to be a new tower going up at the SW end of it which could be the reason why.

[**777lover**]

rutankrd:

hi, not to sound rude but when have Northwest and Delta been planning to move into LHR, are they un happy at LGW, or are they just adding frequencies to the UK? If so what would they operate in their 777s for Delta and perhaps 744s or 330s for NW? Thanks for the info on who maybe moving to T4 looking forward to the spectators in the new T5.

Thanks dave :ok:

[rutankrd]

777lover their Gatwick operations ARE successfull but they are two of the carriers that would want to move or even ADD Heathrow services if Brussels bin Bermuda 2 and greater US access beyond the two airline policy is given along with Continental!

[Localiser Green]

Although it is not 100% clear from the plans, I count about 44 gates (with jetways) at Terminal 5. Given that T4 is 26 gates, and given the large BA prescence at T1, will BA actually fit 100% into T5?

It seems to me they might need to keep Domestic flights in T1 which would be practically the same inconvenient way it works now changing at LHR onto a BA longhaul flight.

[no, no, no]

remember though that BA's peaks and troughs of shorthaul vs longhaul arrivals and departures could make this possible - ie short haul peaks are in the evening, and arrivals between 8-9 and departures around 7; longhaul arrivals are more 6-7 AM and departures about 11AM-2PM - this coud make sense for them in the longrun (?)

[TopBunk]

As I understand it, the new control tower being constructed just behind the Royal Suite is the reason for the timely closure of 23 for this winters gales.... but the tower is only being built there, it will not stay there. It is destined for the T5 site near the fire station, just with the T5 works underway the re is nowhere there to erect it. I understand that it is to be towed across to T5 in March sometime, hence the late March expiry of the NOTAM - should be interesting!

At the same time they are constructing 2 new parking positions opposite the old Deltas - I presume that they will not be used for boarding, just parking, as otherwise pax coaches would need to cross active taxiways, still who knows?

You may be right in that 23 may not be used again, certainly recent practice is that it is used as little as possible because of the disruption it causes (loss of old W stands at end of 23, towing operations from maintenance base to all terminals, taxiing to/from T4, etc). As per W stands, the new stands ooposite the Deltas would be out of service during any 23 operations. I guesss that they are taking the opportunity of 23 being out of service to build those new stands - forward planning!

[Gonzo]

23 wIll never be used again. The stands opposite the old Deltas, (stands 170 and 171) will have passenger access, either by a road crossing the taxiway (as 23 won't be a runway), or I've heard it mentioned that a tunnel is going to be built across to them.

Most of the big (code JW or JX) stands on T5 will be what we call 'MARS' stands. I can't remember what that stands for, Multi-choice something something. basically they can fit two small or one big a/c on the stand, Like 127L and 127R for up to 757, and 127 can fit a 747.

[Mark Lewis]

Just wondering if and when BAA are going to actively "de-certify" RWY23 as an active runway?

[marczac]

I have been led to believe that T5 will be exclusively BA. Star in T1, Skyteam in T4 and other OW in T3. Other airlines will fill the gaps in mainly T2, T3 and T4.

[eurostar builder]

with the mention of t5.

Is there any plans / artist impression what the building will look like on the net.

Today it looks like a big climbing frame is being erected.

Interesting to know.

[Sir George Cayley]

Multi
Access
Ramp
System

Manchester T2 has it with 7x 747 gates (even nos) and 7 intermediate size a/c (odd nos)

With 3 centerlines on even stands and 2 on odd stands thats a lot of yellow paint !

Sir George Cayley

[Globaliser]

marczac: I have been led to believe that T5 will be exclusively BA. Star in T1, Skyteam in T4 and other OW in T3.I would find it hard to believe that QF will not go to T5. From a passenger's perspective, the QF routes are too deeply integrated with BA ops to be able to be viably split from them.

[fescalised portion]

TOP BUNK

F.Y.I. ........With regard to the new tower, It is supposed to be located where stand 326 (old L26) is. There is a large hole in the ground there at the moment, which the new structure should fit quite nicely into.

[Gonzo]

Just a correction.......326 is the old M26. The tower is being built on what would, I guess, be the new 366 if it were a stand.

[TopBunk]

OK guys, when is the new tower going to be shifted to its designated final location?

[Torquelink]

Just a thought - if any shorthall ops were based out of T4 and the third runway was ever constructed - it would likely take longer to taxi from T4 to the new (presumably shorthaul) runway than the likely flying time to the destination!

[WHBM]

Is there any plans / artist impression what the building will look like on the net.
Eurostar Builder:

Try this:

http://www.baa.com/doc/c1d356a63ae99fb380256d2c004d99ca_frame.html

[Gonzo]

Topbunk,

Can't remember, but I hope it doesn't break down on the runway.....can you imagine....."....Go around, due control tower on the runway!"

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

Does anyone know if the T5 plans incorporate an extension of the London Underground and/or the Heathrow Express ? I presume so, to make it all workable, but have seen no references to this. When T4 opened there was an associated additional Underground loop to cater for the new terminal.

[Point Seven]

GCC

The Piccadilly Line extension has been there for years as has the original fit out of the Hex Extension. Just needs updating.

Get the Tube from T4 to T1-2-3 and keep an eye on your left as you face the direction of travel. About halfway you can see down in to the access area.

P7