Anyone ever flew with Royal Aero Club Of WA?

[Nismo]

G'day mates,
I will be enrolling with the Royal AeroClub of WA for the intergrated CPL/IR course as well as subquently the ATPL theories.Anyone here ever flew with the club before? Any good advise to give me regarding my decision? Looking forward to hear from you guys.Thanks.

cheers,
Nismo

[GrossWeight]

Is it full time? With the theory component provided by the W.A Aviation College?

On the topic of RACWA, who took over from Anne as full time IFR?

[Pass-A-Frozo]

I flew with them one xmas... did some cct's in a 152. The seat when full recline during the touch and go resulting in me pulling almost full back yoke and almost idle. Managed to do the quickest situp in my life before it stalled at about 30 feet. Flew low rider :} for the rest of the cct. Came in and told them. Do you think they fixed it... no I think the line was

"Yeah, that will happen."
:yuk:

[Gibbo]

your user name is "Pass-A-Frozo" and you can do a situp?????????:D

[scrambler]

IR course. Go to Ad-Astral.

[Richo]

Nismo

Good luck with the course.

As for the RACWA it is not a bad place, but like all BIG schools has some areas where you need to be proactive with your training.

Get an instructor you are happy with and work with them on your bookings to fly with them as much as possible if not all the time. The norm is to be assigned an instructor when you start, but remember you can ask for a change if you want. it is also sometimes normal to be asked to fly with another instructor, this is also up to you but try to stay with the same one.

Book well in advance. Get to the airport early as all the parking spots will be gone.

Despite PAF comments the aircraft are well maintained and they have a proactive maintenance crew.

Once again have fun and a few beers.

Richo

PS I both learnt and instructed at the club and have been a member for over 20 years. They are still the best at JT.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Concur. You could do a lot worse than RACWA at JT. Would strongly recommend Ad Astral for ME instrument rating though. Not saying RACWA is deficient in this area, rather that Ad Astral is very good.

[max_power747]

Nismo,

Welcome to aviation! Hope the training goes well for you. RACWA seems to be an OK training organisation, but in the past has been known to shuffle students from instructor to instructor, which is definately not good in the early stages of your flight training. So make sure you speak up if this looks like it is happening to you - remember, you are paying a lot of $$ to learn how to fly, and you should expect nothing but the best.

And above all, make sure you enjoy your training! Though often challenging, it is always fun:D

Cheers,

Max

[Grivation]

Would somebody be kind enough to send me a pm to let me know where Anne has gone. And why? Like to catch up.

[Continental-520]

Mate,

Mostly a good decision. Now like everywhere, the RACWA has its pitfalls. Whilst they offer excellent facilities and a good learning environment as far as the theory goes, there is a lot they don't teach you in the practical sense. That goes for any flying school though, so can't really do much about that before you go out and get some experience.

Try not to fall into the instructor trap there once you're done with your training. Whilst it is a better paid gig than a lot of others out there and offers good working conditions, the type of flying you'll do out bush will be a better starting point for you if your ultimate goal is the heavies, or even corporate/RFDS, etc.

This is my most important point: Don't let them rip you off. They have a classic reputation for this. Have they quoted you for the CPL course? If so, make sure they stick to it/the training program assuming you don't require any extra training than what's stated in the training program. A lot of my peers who did the course with me ran way over budget and couldn't finish the course, and it wasn't a function of student ability/progress in all cases.

Just remember who the customer is. You decide when you wanna fly, not them. Whilst I don't regret doing my training there, they have become a business, not a club, and refuse to acknowledge it.


520.

[Richo]

Griv

Anne has moved to Perth AD to take up a C&T position with a very large GA (some RPT) operator. She was offered a very good package to go.

While not specific to this case, the whole C&T thing is seeing people with approvals becoming hot property. CASA is reluctant to or is making it very expensive to check someone up to a position. So if you already have one then expect to be come wanted in the future.

Bit of pisser for those who aspire but cant get a go because of the company policy on employing people in over the top mainly(only) because its cheeper for them, as they do in my company as well.

And what of the organisations who do put people up and pay for thier C&T quals, I can see a bond coming on.

[Azimuth]

Conti 520

I disagree with your comments about RACWA ripping people off.

I have instructed there in the past and I can say that it is spelled out to you in the induction to try and get the student through as quickly and for as cheaply (for the student) as possible.

If any of your friends went over budget, it was because they weren't up to standard.

Sure the place is run like a business, but I have never heard of anyone who works there ripping students off.:ok:

[ozpilot]

Anne has gone to Skippers to do check and training on the Conquest. As to why she left, well, let's just say that it wasn't for financial reasons. Lifestyle becomes a factor after giving your heart and soul for so long.

[the wizard of auz]

Azimuth, I was a member there for a while (only because I could pay for the membership fees and save a bit, on the difference on the members/nonmembers hirage rate of their multis) and I can tell you some horror stories about them. they have a reputation for swapping instructors on the students far to regularly and one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing most of the time. they slow a students progress considerably by doing this. I know a bird that had done thirty two hours without going first solo. she moved to the place I was working for at the time and soloed within her first hour. and I have many tales very similar to this one.
I did up to my RPPL (GFPT) with them along time ago, as well as my low level and a couple of multi's, and found when working with the more experianced instructors, all was very good. but I have had a few check rides in aircraft with instructors there that really shouldnt be flying. (I even had to teach one of them how to do a wheeler type landing when he was checking me out in the Dh82a, because he had never been shown how to do it...... and I had to pay for the privelage).
All in all, they have exelant facilities and a generally good instructor base, but also have the BIG SCHOOL, pilot factory, mentality.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

your user name is "Pass-A-Frozo" and you can do a situp?????????

I did say I only had to do one :)

I personally think they milk money :D

Just my opinion though.

oh and Richo
Despite PAF comments the aircraft are well maintained
I think you mean my incident.. I'm not making it up.

[Towering Q]

Don't write them off for the Instrument Rating.

Brad is a great IF instructor.

The Fresca 142 is a top sim...

and the 'Smelly Hole' is slow enough to allow you to stay ahead during your training.

[Continental-520]

Azimuth,

Mate, roughly 66% of my class didn't finish the course due to running grossly over budget, and therefore roughly 66% obviously didn't get jobs, not that getting one was part of the deal, but one still expects to be in the running to look for one after spending that kind of money.

Now, if you're telling me that 66% of the class weren't "up to standard", then it seems a little like you're saying that 66% of people are stupid. I think this is more pointing towards a deficiency in the teaching method(s) amongst SOME (not all) of the instructors there when the majority of the class comes out incomplete.

Incidentally, it was not spelled out to me/us when we went for the intro seminar and bought into it. Since my course year, they have modified the quote (increase, of course) and changed/added to the fine print. How convenient. They're as good as bum covering as teaching people how to fly, it seems.

You can still rip people off without the intent to do so, mate.

And then, the big sign on Hope Rd with a B744 taking off accompanied by the caption "A career that really takes you places",... yeah, sure, I wonder where it took those who were not as fortunate as me in their circumstance. I'd start by suggesting the Centrelink office.


520.

[767Junkie]

Hi Guys, just a point. You have mentioned about the intergrated course...

That is not RACWA who run the course. It is the West Australian Aviation College... WAAC.

That is independantly owned by a businessman.

The club side of things is generally getting very good. A lot has changed over the last couple of years. And a S**Tload is gonna change over the next few years....

But please please please remember that WAAC & RACWA although they share a building.. They dont share the same ethos. However WAAC do provide a lot of business to RACWA, and like any organisation they are going to take that business.

I did ALL of my training there and have a total of 3 instructors (that included FIR, NVFR, Twin End, Aeros)

If you enjoy flying there then do it... Enjoy it...

If not try one of the other numerous training organisations along the strip..

That is my 2cents worth anyway.

[Continental-520]

Yep, absolutely.
That is precisely why I've undertaken training elsewhere for further qualifications, and this forms the basis of the few criticism's that I have against both the RACWA and the WAAC.

Without having done so, obviously I would have no basis from which to criticise.


520.

[Azimuth]

520

No-one at RACWA is trying to rip anyone off. If they were, their employment would be terminated immediately.

Because there is so much competition to work there, everyone who does is extremely carefull not to risk their jobs

Azimuth

[Continental-520]

I'm not suggesting/insinuating that anyone in particular there is doing so. Just the organisations as a whole. Nor do I suggest that they mean to do so, but they do nevertheless.


520.

[mullet n tats]

I have seen the product of RACWA `commercially' trained students and have not been impressed. Apart from having no idea of how to conduct a simulated charter as a commercial student with approx 200 (!), hours they wouldnt even be up to scratch with a PPL at the same hours level.

I am aware of alot of people that have gone to other organisations along the field when they have become frustrated and misguided with the RACWA approach.

I am sure other people will agree with my thoughts.

Do yourself a favour and look elswhere. If you want my recommedation please PM me.

M n T

[Tiger_T]

Continental-520

Are we bitter about anything?

Reading all your comments they don't seem to be the kind of constructive comments I would be giving people looking for advice.

Out of your 66%, how many had the dedication to the course, to the study? How many were REALLY prepared to make the kind of sacrifices needed to undertake a course such as the WAAC course? Having observed all of you I would say you nailed it on the head...about 34% of you. Those who were dedicated and were up to the high standards RACWA tries to produce and is known for nationally, are 'out there' in jobs and flying their dreams on their way to a fine career in whatever field they are aiming for.

You must understand also that whether flying is your passion or not, some people are simply not suited to flying aeroplanes. This doesn't mean that you are 'stupid' as you put it. It has nothing to do with it. People make fantastic doctors and lawyers, but pilots?

Something for you to think about.

;)

[spam]

Wow I don't know this place but u can see the difference in attitude between the people who obviously work there, and the people who don't and can see the results objectively!
Those who work there, you're doing really well at trotting out the party line and your loyalty is admirable. But if I was looking for the truth I'd get it from the outside not the inside.

[Continental-520]

Tiger,

Yeah, I'll buy that. I can accept that maybe not everyone actually was dedicated. However, even you cannot deny that they (WAAC and RACWA) make it (the GA industry) out to be some sort of fairyland in comparison to what the reality is, perhaps in an attempt to 'swoon' potential students.

Incidentally, I'll have you know that my start in another line of work/industry completely non aviation related occurred after my start in aviation, and since then, my non aviation job/career has progressed further than my career in aviation, which is naturally my career of choice. Whilst that isn't the fault of the WAAC or RACWA, I dare say that their appraisal of the industry to potential clients, or as they like to say, members, wouldn't suggest that something like this could possible be the case.

Also, if they claim to be churning out candidates who, upon completion of the course are of such a tremendously and sought after employable standard, then surely one could expect to be employable by the same company that brought them to this!! Yet, for that to be the case you're left to fork out more for the instructor rating, NVFR, tailwheel, etc...

Finally, can anyone tell me a definite number of actual graduates, and I mean graduates who've got their diploma in their hot little paws that have come out of there?

If you do the maths, I think you'll find that the actual number of graduates (employed or otherwise) makes for not even 10% of the total number of students that they've attempted to train.

Come on people, let's wake up and tell it like it is. Less than 10% graduating. Does this not say something to you?


520.

[767Junkie]

Conti and the rest, remember as i have said before....

The diploma course is run by WAAC (the same ppl that advertise using a jumbo and a catchy phrase. They are the ones that run all the seminars, and they are the ones that say from nothing to Qantas in a year).

WAAC are a business completely seperate to the Royal Aero Club. The only relationship is the building space is leased by WAAC from RACWA and the fact that WAAC use RACWA's training facilities (eg the Instructors & Aircraft)

The Aero club make no more money from WAAC students than a normal CPL student.

However WAAC do make a s**t load of money.. The owner needs to keep his porsche some how.

The 10% of graduates u speak about are Graduates from the WAAC course, not graduates from RACWA.

RACWA is what you make of it. If you go in there with a negative attitude then you will more than likely come out with a negative one.

I started there 3 years ago (didnt go to WAAC). I have sinced finished ALL of my training there and now work for another company on the strip.

I do feel that the training was fantastic and i have made some awesome friendships with my instructors and fellow students. These friendships will go with me forever.

Guys everyplace has gr8 points and some bad points. But please stop talking about WAAC and blaming it on RACWA.

The two places have completely different attitudes.

Remember just because the two places share the same building they dont share the same ethos.


Anyways if you do go to RACWA for your training you are bound to be looked after and have a ball. That is if you go in with a open mind. If you go there negative you might as well not bother at all.

Take Care

[Tiger_T]

Thanks for the reply,

In regards to fairyland, (and I will be diplomatic about what I say here) there may be some people who will sell the "dream". I am one of those people, however I will also sell the reality also. I constantly get calls from people willing to give up their career doing whatever it is they are doing for a flying job, and the flying school going after the dollar will convince them that they are making the right choice.

I will never and I ensure that others don't either forget what they have spent and been through to get where they are. I will never tell someone that you can do all this in 12 months and get a starting salary of 50 K plus. We all know it is a bloody hard slog to get going.

As far as graduates from purely commercial flying, we have a very high standard. However, as with anything, people can get to a standard and then quickly fall away. I have great issues with the whole 12 month thing. I don't believe there is enough time to properly consolidate. Most things are learnt by Rote, so when there is a 3 or 4 weeks theory break then most students can't fly! I also have great issues of getting people to 'test ' standard knowing that they won't be 4 weeks later and potentially dangerous, not because they are foolish, but because they lack the natural ability.

I know when I am training someone that they will be a pilot or make a great pilot. But I am generally not at liberty to crush someones dream by saying so. Heaven forbid they might snap into gear and make things happen - then where would I be?

There is a hell of a lot to get through in 12 months and I think it could be better spread over 18 months, but that is not up to me. However, a fact of life is that alot of the students in the course are straight out of school and if you look at the ones who do do well, they are usually the older ones with more life experience, or the ones who are paying for it themselves in part or wholely. (spelling??) It takes a lot of dedication and discipline to go straight from school into a course like that. No teachers holding your hand anymore.

ATPL subjects are clearly the stumbling block. They are hard. And when you have no idea about what some of the terms you study mean or are, it makes it hard. Only by being out there and getting some experience can you start to understand and come across these terms and then understand their relevance.

Maturity and responisibilty are hard to come by when your young, we have all been there. Just today, someone decided to try and fly into the rain and low cloud to get to Rotto. They had to divert and land at Perth. Their pax would not go on to Jandakot when the weather cleared. Why did they press on when they could clearly see it was a no go situation? Maturity and life experience.

As far as ripping people off from previous posts, we don't. Students who turn up to lessons unprepared are the ones who usually suffer the budget blowout. We see it all the time. The number of times an instructor will come into the room holding their head in their hands not knowing what else they can do because their student doesn't put any effort in is heartbreaking. Beleive me we care because strangely enough it does reflect on us and we do want you to succeed.

I am going on but there are a lot of reasons why people fail and succeed or just get lost half way. There are responsibilties. But I can assure you nonetheless that RACWA is dedicated to getting you to where you want to go in the quickest and safest time possible. Very few people don't finish their flying. 10% is probably a close guess. But why only 10% getting their diploma? Things just don't come on a silver plate... :p

[Continental-520]

Indeed, things don't come on a silver plate, and nor should they. Now that you've come out with that Tiger, I'm very happy to say that all spare one of the few that made the absolute most out of the year of my class and achieved some astonishing stuff after working their rears off were all fresh out of high school, like myself. Indeed, it took a lot of discipline in the transition to it, but it was all worth it, and has helped in other aspects of life since.

I went into it with a very positive outlook, and that remained for the whole year. Yes, I had a lot of fun and learned an untold amount during the year, and as I've said before, don't regret doing it for one minute. It was only when I went out into the industry and experienced things for myself and undertook training for further qualifications beyond CPL level that I realised why there are so many other people out there who are somewhat skeptical about going to RACWA or WAAC. Call me brainwashed, but I have reasons of my own.

No one at Jandakot WANTS to rip anyone off, that's for sure. However, when I hire an aircraft from RACWA I get charged a higher hourly rate than what I would elsewhere, plus I get charged VDO. Sounds petty, but makes a lot of difference.

A company I've hired from since the RACWA days charges me A/S for the aircraft, and VDO for the instructor if I fly with one. And on top of that, very reasonable aircraft rates. And this works in their favour also, because people will be in less of a hurry to get off the ground when charged airswitch, and engines actually get warmed up properly and looked after, etc. This is one example of a few that I refer to when saying that RACWA are not as good value for money as they will have you believe. When you're paying for twin time, the difference adds up.

This has less to do with the individuals in question and more to do with the product, I think. Hell, if I can get through that year with a CPL, NVFR rating, Tailwheel end., and not fail anything except some ATPL exams that I wasn't ready and was rushed for, than anyone can!


520.

[tightcannon]

Hi guys and girls,
i havent been involved in the Perth scene for a number of years but the problem with JT has always been that it suffers from a lack of world wide knowledge outside of WA. All of the schools are good (even the small ones) but you need to decide on what job you are after.
If you want to go instructing and you think that you can get a job then WA is probably the best way to go, You have China S,Racwa, Air Oz, Phoenix,Amity Singers,Institute, Aero Co Shine ,Bunbury, Tropicair, Kununurra,Kal, Skyworx, Adastral and the rest. the problem is that if you are after flying bigger a/c then you are very limited, you have Paul Lyons, Kevron, skyworkx,Complete who all take on lower time pilots, The perth crowd of GWA, Network, Skippers NJ, Maroomaba, Complete, Pearl all like 1000's of hours.

A really good way to go is to head east to a local school away from the major airports. Canberra, Darwin, Maount Isa, Marrochy, Cooly, Mackay, Rocky, Townsville, Cairms,Tamworth,ect ect ect, there is heaps of employment at the moment.
RFDS, Airlink, Easterns, Rex, ******, Pelair, Corporate, VB, JStar, QF Sunnies, Sunshine EXp are all interviewing and hiring.
They take peolpe with less time than the perth guys and the equipment is better. There is lots of twin work if you know where to look and are prepared to travel. try parachuting, GAM and the others. Dont worry about the ATPL you can always go to Marrochy or back to the RACWA. I guess the descision is how much do you want the job. If I had my time again I would have done my PPL, NVFR jumped in a relaible HQ panelvan and headed off. Talked to the schools and found out if they are up with the industry, an example of this is a certain school at Caloundra who look like a rough version of Amity yet they have about 8 twins flying chater in FNQ and they employ thier own pilots. I would also go online to CASA or buy the Aviation Australia Operaters list and write to every flying chool and operater in the country. Dont listen to the guys and girls from MEL or Syd because they are in the same boat that you are, i even had a mate ring up from Darwin last year wanting a Baron pilot for the season, all he wanted was the endorsemnt and a few hours on type, he couldnt find a pilot so he trained up a new guy. It is important that the CFI has worldly experaince, you cant teach charter if you have never done it.

I will say this though.

IN 14 YEARS OF FLYING FROM CHARTER, INSTRUCTING AND AIRLINES I HAVE NEVER (NEVER) MET A PILOT WHO DIDNT GET A JOB FLYING WHEN HE REALLY REALLY WANTED ONE,

thats the truth you will end up with a job and after a few years it will be turbine and salary but you have to make it happen, you have to want it and you have to work for it. if you end up working for the RACWA on full time and you are happy thats 10 times the job that the checkout chick has got.

[Xcel]

hey all.
not sure about west coast but over in sydney, schofields flying club is awesome. went to tafe and all the people from there followed my choice as i had a little experience.

every single student was happy and i got praised from all, not a single complaint about anything.

very good instructors well maintaned fleet and excellent admin staff. very nice environment good facilities also well priced.

ended up quiting tafe as they offer Diploma and Cert. IV now and have overseas student approval.

any queries about schools in bankstown pm me as i have now studied and worked here for 4 years and have very unbiased and educated knowledge of the airport.

[topend3]

whilst on the topic of racwa, whats going on with the operations department there, i noticed they had a job in saturdays west for an operations co-ordinator, job description wasn't very descriptive, anyone know what they pay or what they are like to work for, not that i was thinking of applying or anything:D :D