Q-400's at Osaka

[Stereolab]

First time posting on pprune...hello!

Looking for info on the Q-400's out of Osaka. I already checked out the Hawaii Aviaiton website. Just looking for rumors, hiring info, and advice. Currently, I'm an F/O at a regional and wondering if it's worth the switch...I wouldn't mind hanging out in Osaka (Okonomiyaki/hot chicks) rather than being "bored" in the midwest and freezing my a-$ off.

Thanks in advance...

Oyasumi

[Slasher]

Kaptin M might know something.

Might be worth a PM to him.

[Kaptin M]

You rang?
G'day Stereolab. To the best of my knowledge the jobs here in Osaka, on the Dash, are for Captains only - that means you will need to be able to prove that you have been flying in the lhs, as a commander, and have somewhere around 2-3 years worth of lhs time before you'll be considered.
I understand that they (Alpha Wing - an All Nippon Airlines..ANA..subsidiary) have employed around 10 or so gaijin to date, mainly from Europe (so the cabin crew we were talking with thought).

It's still pretty cold here - it was snowing last week - so my advice is to get your cold @ss into the lhs asap.
I found out that co-pilot time isn't worth a pinch of salt, regardless of total time and previous type experience. Get yourself on to the left side, then the world is your oyster.

[splat72]

Kaptin m
Tried to send you a pm but the mail box is full.
I am also trying for ANA I have about 500 in th lhs of the dash none in the right and about 2 years worth in the lhs of a brasilia with 5100 tt ,31 yo and keen as mustard.
This meets the minimin but do u know if it is really enough to be given a second thought.

cheers

[Shagtastic]

Kaptain M,

What are your thoughts on flying with Japanese pilots?

Shaggy

[Kaptin M]

"keen as mustard....I suspect that that is the primary trait the recruiting company and the airline interviewers will be seeking, once you`ve met the minimums, splat. So I would go ahead and lodge my application even if you don`t meet the minimums right now (sorry, I don`t know what they were looking at), as I believe there will be a growing requirement for foreign pilots, in this country over the next 2-3 years, due to the high retirement rate.

What are your thoughts on flying with Japanese pilots?. They are congenial, and trained very well in their company procedures, Shags - however having said that, I find that most of the F/O`s have a fairly standard set of "add-ons", which when queried why, the reply is invariably "some (Japanese) Captains like to do it that way" :rolleyes:
My understanding of the reason for SOP`s was precisely that - to have standard operating procedures.

As is ingrained in the Japanese culture, everything has a set format (eg. the pre-flight briefing of the Cabin Crew) - like a tea ceremony.
Manipulatively, as in any cross section of a group, there is a variation within lower and upper limits.

Gambatte!

[schroeder]

hi kaptin m,

do I really need a pic rating to fly the q400 in osaka as FO?
why that?
I am current as FO on q400 with tt 2700 h.

Could you check?

best regards,

gajin

[Kaptin M]

To the best of my knowledge, schroeder, the vacancies were for Captains only. I`ll try to make contact with some of the guys and see if they can answer your questions directly on this forum.

[Kaptin M]

Sorry guys, I have given you wrong information.

Apparently the vacancies are for F/O's as well as Captains.
Preference is given to pilots with Q400 time, however as there isn't an abundance of these pilots available, 300 or Saab time, followed by time on glass/turbine types is acceptable.

Apologies for the bum steer.

Agencies are PARC and HACS.

[schroeder]

sorry guys,

have to query again:
do I need pic time to apply for FO position on q400? is this a Japanase CAA (JCAB) requirement? I have already q400 time.

hope somebody might find out, Kaptin M probably?

so long,

schroeder

[Stereolab]

Kaptim M,

First off, thanks for the replies. The positions I'm refering to are the Q400 f/o and ca slots offered by Hawaii Aviation...sounds like from your comments "Alpha Wing" does direct hiring...you mentioned most newhires were from Europe (I'm a Yankee)...

I was puzzled by your comments on pic time for an f/o slot...that seems very unusual...unless they are counting on furloughed pilots from the states to fill these postions.

So I guess my question is, are they hiring only a few f/o's or are they looking at hiring a lot? And are you refering to Hawaii Aviation as the point of contact for hiring? I also know they are looking at aquiring CRJ's as well.

Thanks again for the carifications...

Stereo...

[Kaptin M]

Stereo and schroeder - might I suggest that the BEST source for your info would be the agencies - PARC and HACS.
To date, I have had no contact with any of the Alpha Wing pilots, my info has come from a couple of F/A`s with that company, one of the PARC managers, and Japanese pilots with another Japanese company.

I understand that there are now some Canadians, as well as the Europeans.

I do NOT believe (according to the Japanese pilots I have asked, and the PARC rep) that commmand time is a requirement for an F/O slot, by either JCAB or ANA. Regardless of the licence you hold, you will be issued a full Japanese licence (at the completion of training) - not a validation of any existing licence, which usually entails doing only an Air Law exam and medical.
The Japanese system entails several exams, a simulator and line checks by JCAB, for licence issue, and basically a full ground school and sim course on the aircraft, even if already rated.

The original number of 10 that I cited in an earlier post is now apparently "considerably" more.

Again, until I can get some time off, back in Osaka and make contact with the Gaijin in Alpha Wing, I am only passing on 2nd and 3rd hand info.
PARC and/or HACS will be able to far better inform you than I of the requirements.

It would be unusual, Stereolab, that ANA would be direct hiring.

If you have 400 time, either as a co-pilot, or a captain, my understanding is you would be in a prime seat if you`re interested in this job.

[Farknel]

As other posters have suggested, it would be best to check the websites of the respective crewing companies to get up-to-date information.

To the best of my knowledge (and in accordance with other advice here on Pprune) there are two crewing agencies - HACS (Hawaii Aviation Contract Services - Contact: Mike Lee) and PARC (contact: Jacquie Breslin). The urls are:

HACS (Hawaii Aviation) (http://www.hawaiiaviation.com) and PARC Aviation (http://www.parc-group.com/aviation/index.htm) .

HACS still have an advertisment (with full details of required experience) on their site, however PARC are not actively recruiting for the positions now (although this may change sometime down the track). If you wish to contact Jacquie Breslin at PARC, find a job posting with her name as a contact and email her.

Hope this helps - so far there has not been much feedback from crew already recruited for the contract, but maybe they would care to enlighten us if they get the time.

Fark!

[schroeder]

Thanks to Farknel and Kaptin M,

about PIC time: I already asked the agencies . They told me it is a JCAB requirement. Hard to belive and very strange. Therefore I asked this forum if this is very likely to be true. I am still in doubt...but how to ask JCAB? no link to them...so, hopefully somebody could find out !

thanks again fellows,

schroeder

[Stereolab]

Yeah...the pic time for an F/O Q400 position seems odd.

Thanks again Kaptin M for answering our questions. Since I'm a "Yankee" I would most likely go through HACS.

Oyasumi Nasai

[bf109]

Hello everybody,for your info I am in Tokyo and met a few of the guys on the Q400 contract. They are Canadians,they are all F/O's
with no PIC time and they are their contracts are with Parc.
They are in Tokyo studying for the Japanese licence(air law,radio,
weather, etc.)
cheers

[PPRuNe Towers]

As these jobs are attracting attention from those new to the contract world in general and Japan in particular I'd like to make a suggestion.

It's probably a very opportune moment for veterans of contract work in Japan to pass on genuine examples of how long it takes to get on line within companies there. This may well be vitally important to you if your 'advertised' salary is based on actually being a productive line pilot. This has been a major stumbling block discussed on-line for the last 10 years that I know of.

Regards
Rob

[Kaptin M]

From PARC, these are the requirements that ANA have given them, for candidates:-
Total Time : 2,500 hours (on anything)
PIC time: 1,500 (on anything)
Preference: min 500 hours operating on a 2-crew (preferably) turbo-prop aircraft.
Preferably: A command rating on type. Most countries (except Oz and N.Z.) issue you with only one rating when you are endorsed - that being a Command endorsement. In their infinite wisdom, Australia and N.Z. differentiate between a Captain (command) and a non-command (it used to be called a 2nd class rating) endorsement, according to PARC.

To respond to PPT - time from initial induction to "final checkout" is historically 7-4 months.
This involves a ground school that requires you to pass several subjects for your Japanese ATP, and Japanese Radio Operator's Licence.
Regardless of time on type, you will be required to do a full Ground school (and associated exams), fixed base, and motion on sim training, followed by a JCAB (and Company) sim check ride.

Line training will treat you as an ab initio - after all, flying in Japanese air is TOTALLY unlike the air anywhere else on this planet!! - and you can expect at least 1 (but maybe 2) JCAB check rides, followed by about an hour of questions.

Now whilst all of this might SOUND daunting :{ the Japanese are very thorough with their training, and one MUST assume that you will not be presented for a check unless the INSTRUCTOR has done his work properly.
Nevertheless, it IS a somewhat "draining" experience, and there is (in)occasionally the poor unfortunate who bombs out.

[Stereolab]

Thanks for the replies and the added info...

Let's see if I understand this...

If you are hired by HACS or PARCS, you have to go through a ground school to convert your licences to the Japanese ATP? And after this do you start training in the Q400?

As I remember it, your training for the Q400 and your SIC checkride in the level "D" sim will convert your ratings to Japan standards. It seems a bit inefficient to go through a part 141 type of program to convert your ATP, then go through ground school after that for the Q400...

So I guess my question is...do you have to go through two training programs? One to convert your ratings and a second for actual training in the Q400?

Thanks in advanced!!!

[schroeder]

thanks bateman , I sent you a PM.

Does anybody have precise information about the selection ?
sim-check,other tests, interview etc...

so long,

schroeder

[antiicing]

i sent my papers a week ago
copies of docs etc etc
through PARC, no reply yet
they say the interviews will take place
1st week of june in seattle
will see on that
bye:uhoh:

[oxygen on]

Same word from HACS. They told me screening in June for a groundschool in November. The August GS is already filled. Seems like a very strict and structured environement over there. At least from what i heard from a friend over there.

[Stereolab]

OK...so what are competitive mins?

What's the interview like?

How many in each class?

How many are American pilots?

Are your certificates transfered after you complete your checkride?

C'mon guys...give up the gouge...

[thugee]

I have been through he selection process. It involves a sim ride ( if you've been passing your checks up to now you won't have a problem) a rather short and bizarre interview (they don't speak much English - so keep respectful. positive and speak absolute rubbish) and a very thorough medical (if you've been passing medicals up to now you won't have a problem.
You fail - they let you know. (After a while)
More likely - You pass. You wait and wait and wait. Some go straight to Japan but the majority enter a sort of limbo hold pool. If you piss off the Japs with the most trivial thing you will probably remain in the hold pool forever (along with hundreds of others)
Don't buy a Japanese phrase book quite yet!

[oxygen on]

Screenings are over for the next course (Oct-Nov). But there will be a lot more hiring since they ordered 8 more Q400s for the coming years. Most of the candidates were canadians with Dash 8 time. They seem to be hiring Capts and FOs.

[thugee]

I would be suprised if anyone on the latest round of interviews found themselves on the next course. The whole process just seems to take a lot longer than that - more like the middle of next year.

[Kaptin M]

Get used to it guys, NOTHING ever happens quickly in Japan. There are NO shortcuts, and there is a set protocol for everything - that protocol may have been established 10, 20, or 30+ years ago, but it must still be followed to the T today. (In other words, everything is a "ceremony").
There will be certain committees that your applications will need to be approved by - and not just within the airline.

Stereolab asks, "Are your certificates transfered after you complete your checkride?"
You will be required to:-
(i) pass the exams for the issue of a JCAB licence - they do NOT validate licences from other countries;
(ii) do the full ground school, and pass the exams for the aircraft type for which you are being recruited - in this case the Dash 8;
(iii) do the full simulator training, followed by a JCAB check ride;
(iv) complete line training, followed by at least 1 (and perhaps 2) JCAB check rides.
Expect to be "monitored" by the Company and JCAB for the next 12 months-2 years.

No other type rating you hold are transferred - quite simply put, they don't recognise anything done outside Japan, (including previous flying experience) by foreigners flying non JA registered aircraft.
(Ever wondered why you NEVER see experienced Japanese pilots flying for non-Japanese carriers?)

If you are coming to Japan, it's a long, hard slug. Forget about your previous experience, and accept that you will be treated as an ab initio for about 3 years.
Even after that period of time, do not expect to be treated too much differently - a Japanese pilot with less than (for example) 1/2 of your experience will ALWAYS (in their minds) be a more reliable source of info than you.

Japan has a culture of a "closed society" (excluding non-Japanese), and this extends into aviation, and onto the aircraft as well, which makes for "interesting" CRM at times!

[oxygen on]

Next course starting in November. Anyboby knows how many candidates. Started with 25 at the interviews, and don't know how many are left three months later.