Crikey..Shenanigans in AIPA

[bonvol]

Well, the knives are out at the good ship AIPA.

11 members voted against the Jetstar proposal and there are rumours that "certain" committee members were not provided with the "Agenda" and the "Industrial Report" prior to the meeting!

If December’s SGM purpose was to gauge the true feelings of the members and seek direction from the members re the LLC negotiations, then you'd have to say they were the only ones listening. Another SGM would be an appropriate time to ask the others why they weren't!

Lots of ringing around going on in QF at the moment.

[Keg]

bonvol, do we HAVE to do this here? Sometimes PPRUNE is the 'escape' from the QF stuff and it'd be nice if we weren't doing AIPA stuff here as well! ;)

[bonvol]

Yeah, fair enough Keg.

I'm just sick of all the censorship that goes on in Qrewroom. At least here I can't get called in for tea and bikkies for having an opinion.

[balance]

Matter of fact Keg, I have to agree with bonvol. You cannot give your opinion on Qrewroom because you WILL be vilified for it. Especially don't critisize the AIPA gods.

To be perfectly frank, with this Jetstar crap, we have been told over and over that we must accept what they have negotiated, or it's nothing at all. I'm sick of this attitude. They are only accountable to themselves.

The deal that they have negotiated is simply awful. They need to start listening to the membership, not just the other way around. And, Yes, I have told them of my dissatisfaction with the deal.

[bonvol]

Exactly Balance.

Just look at what happened to the bloke who didn't toe the line. A certain committee member allegedly told the bloke that he would not be "protected" from what is surely to come.

What is this, the Soprano's?

[DirectAnywhere]

You don'teven get bikkies these days...or tea for that matter.;)

[Suffering Sucataash]

Keg,

Where else can we do this?

No one will post anything very contentious on qrewroom without the expectation of a cold cup of tea or you might just “fail” your next check. Perhaps though we ought to have a private Qantas forum here on Pprune as I don’t like the doing the laundry in public either.

[Keg]

Bonvol, balance et al. YOU guys may not get tea and bikkies but I guarantee that I could! The CP collared me in the corridor last September and told me that he liked what I had to say on a particular discussion on here! :eek: :D

No biggie, I've never made my identity a particularly big secret! I should do what the Woomera's do and have a bunch of people be 'Keg'! :D

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

May I suggest one "Keg" is enough? Any more and we'd be inebriated with words of wisdom! :}

Woomera

[MoFo]

Bonvol.

I'm with you. We all know who was threatened but not by whom.

Protected from what? What goes on at management level in AIPA that is kept from the peasants ?

There are so many who are considering resignation from this secretative outfit ,but all this would do is weaken the pilot group, as the big bloke would love to happen.

As for Qrewroom nobody says much for fear of recrimination, so what a pussy little forum it is.

[hoss]

How do I become a Kegii?:ok: :)

[bonvol]

Don't worry Keg. We will run interference for you. All for one and one for all I say.

And just in case we fail, what type of tea do you want with the Iced Vo Vo's. It's the least we can do ;)

[balance]

Keg. I enjoy your posts here mate, and I generally agree with what you say. But please don't feel that you have to become a quasi QF moderator, simply because you are personally known on this forum. If the subject is too contentious - then don't comment, or use another handle.

Speaking of which, Womera / Danny et al, how about a private QF forum???


I would imagine a private QF forum would be similar to the antics on WWE Smack Down on Friday nights? (Pro Rastlin' to those of you who don't have cable TV!)

I passed your request on to the Chief Pilot.

:}

Woomera

[bonvol]

As I understand it if we set up a private QF forum then we will have to be identified in order for it to be a private QF forum. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me. In fact, I'm sure they are! This may assist the process as someone in PPRune will know who you are. One slip up and you are dead.

That this is public is what assists us I believe. No one likes their dirty linen aired in public. Hopefully this should/may encourage the dirty linen to be sent to the cleaners in the first place so it doesn't get aired at all.

In space can anyone hear you scream?

And a special thanks to all those who have put their names for a SGM. Keep em' coming.

[Agent Mulder]

I for one look forward to a SGM because then the achievements of the 3 loudest people on Qrewroom can be discussed. Should take 10 seconds to talk about the achievements and 4 hours to talk about why your association is being held to ransom by populists who do no work for your benefit.

Ask them what they have achieved over the past "x" years. They personally, deals are done by your elected members remember. The sum total for the 3 is zero. They have however wasted enormous amounts of your associations time which could have been spent looking after your interests.

The truth is out there Gents.

P.S. Read the rules regarding an SGM.

[Tankengine]

Hi Bonvol, I for one already know who you are!!:ooh:
We have even flown together! Lucky I am not a company spy!:cool:
Of course I have flown with Keg too!:D

[bonvol]

Shoosh, Mums the word mate!

This will be just our little secret right? ;)

[Andrew Marshall]

Anyone reading this bull**** who would like to discuss the issues please feel free to call me. My numbers are readily available, unlike the heroes on this forum.

[bonvol]

I was hoping we would flush one of you out sooner or later. Success.
And Andrew, you are starting to sound like Dick Smith.
please feel free to call me
Just stating it's all BS is not good enough here Andrew. We await your justification for this "deal" so we can comprehensively evaluate your argument. It's probably not necessary though as you can put your case at the SGM.

And for those wondering who is Andrew Marshall, he is an office bearer of AIPA.

[Andrew Marshall]

Bonvol,

If I knew who you are I could tell you.

For those who don't know who bonvol is:

He is one of the toughest men I represent. He makes broad sweeping statements about that which he knows little. He makes these statements on an anonymous forum so as to protect his identity.

I have no such luxury.

I would lead him to war in a heartbeat, his courage inspires.

Andrew

[bonvol]

Andrew Andrew. You have no such luxury?

This is because there are no repurcussions for you. I'll leave it for the readers to work out why.

But back to the issues. As I understand it, the agreement you allegedly support for Jetstar involves QF mainline pilots qualifying through a selection process. Haven't we already done that when we qualified originally? If we don't qualify, are we then not good enough for the job we already hold? Will the interview process be similar as for AA, where some pilots got rejected? You know something about that don't you Andrew?

Furthemore, will there be a probation period a la AA?

I have so many questions and look forward to the SGM to get to the bottom of all this.

[Capt Fathom]

:yuk: It was interesting, for a second. :zzz:

[bonvol]

For all those reading, in the hallowed kingdom of QF, PPRune is regarded somewhat as a peasants forum, infested with amateurs,wannabes and the ill informed. Certainly nowhere a real pilot would argue the point.

A great pity really, as in a forum where true opinion can be freely promulgated, we may find the nucleus for an opportunity that may benefit our professional careers.

The future of the professional pilot in this country will rely on an organisation being formed that can address the very real issues all of us face with a bipartisan approach. Someone who can put aside individual company politics and get heads together for the collective good of the Australian professional aviator.

Someone with no hidden agenda, for management aspirations or similar advancement, who cares deeply for their fellow pilots future and the profession, regardless of individual company employment.

Where will we find such a person? Does such a person exist?

[Keg]

Yeah but I'm too busy raising my family to do anything just now thanks. ;) Did you mention modest as well? :p

I agree with your first couple of para's bonvol. There is an unfortunate perception about PPRUNE from most 'senior' members of both the company and the association. Yeah, there is a bunch of crap on here from time to time but there is also considerable scope for effective discussion- if we can avoid playing the man.

Your second last paragraph is an interesting one. No one does anything in this world without some form of 'pay off'. It's interesting that in the work I do with the Air Force Cadets, we often get new staff joining (who are former cadets) saying how they are their to 'put something back' for the cadets. My follow up is 'what's your pay off' because if you're not getting something out of it, you won't last. Similarly with the association, we need people (and I'm not saying that we don't have them now- blokes like BJ for example) who's pay off is that 'we', the pilots of the QF group, get a better deal, and that the members concerned in working hard for that get to leave a legacy and/or the recognition they deserve for their hard work.

Anyway, I should leave that there. Woomera'll think that I've got a couple of more. By the way, thanks for that W, I laughed myself silly! :}

[Edited because I can't spell- and can't proof read either! :ok: )

[Dehavillanddriver]

such a person doesn't exist - it just isn't human nature.

You go in boots and all to protect your constituents and management kick you in the head - YOU are the person causing the trouble.

you protect yourself and you are a pussy, management wannabee.

the reality is, and this is not a purely QF thing, that unless our union reps are protected under legislation that is enforceable - our unions are a joke.

the afap is just as bad - they have no power, and to complicate things they also have past relationship issues just the same as QF

I reckon that we should go back to the future and re-amalgamate the airline arm of the AFAP with AIPA to provide airline crews with a single voice not influenced by secular interests - it wan't be a -400 club, or whatever....

OZALPA - the Australian Airline Pilot Association - line up here and vote yes or no....

[Rostov]

What's the point on working on a deal that at face value does nothing for the JQ pilots? They will vote no then who will be steering what boat?:confused:

[Keg]

DHD, it's called AusALPA and it already exists as a loose co-operation/coalition between AIPA and the AFAP. In fact, AusALPA (witih AIPA as lead co-ordinators) are hosting the IFALPA conference at the end of March in Sydney.

Other than that, I'm disappointed in your lack of faith in human nature. I can name half a dozen people out of the 1000 plus that I've flown with over the last nine years in QF who would qualify for bonvol's criteria. ;) :}

[Dehavillanddriver]

Keg,

half a dozen out of a thousand are pretty slim pickings! - though I take your point.

AusAlpa - where it consists of the AFAP and AIPA existing as two distinct entities is doomed to fail because of the secular interests that each group has to deal with - by far the largest AIRLINE group in the AFAP is the Virgin pilot body, and AIPA represents SOME of the QANTAS interests - note the word SOME..

AIPA - from what I hear - and I am not a QF pilot - seems dominated by the -400 drivers, which have a different set of imperatives than the domestic guys.

AIPA, correct me if I am wrong, also tried to have the AFAP chucked out of ALPA - so they won't gain too much trust from the AFAP side..

I reckon we need a combined pilot group - a PROPER ALPA rather than one that represents either the QF mainline guys/gals or the Virgin guys/gals

[Keg]

And on your last point we are in FULL agreeance! :ok:

[amos2]

what a complete and absolute load of nonsence you lot are going on about!!

Want stability, unity, loyalty, honour, dignity, good conditions, good salary, good career, fair promotion and all that stuff?

Yeah!...sure you do!

Bull****!

You had it all up until 89'

And then you blew it...

hey! as you sow so shall you reap!

I go fishing these days and laugh and feel sorry for you lot!

In ya boot! :p

[Dehavillanddriver]

amos - you dill - not EVERYBODY was involved in the dispute, and a lot of us who were in GA at the time had NO means of influencing events.

so why should we not try now?

if i remember correctly the split occured prior to 89

[Keg]

LOL. Amos, I was 18 years old when the dispute happened and had about 30 hours of flying under my belt! I had such a major impact on issues! :rolleyes:

Nice try at a wind up though!

[Hugh Jarse]

And furthermore to Keg and DHD's posts:

WE DON"T CARE!

Get over it...

[Truth Seekers Int'nl]

yeah......you had it all...... and then along came the AFAP and decided to take on abeles, hawke, murdoch & co. for a lousy 29.73333% pay rise when every other bloodey worker in Oz was tied to the accord and guess what happened ?
the big boss Brian Mac says all stick together so the rank and file either retire, rack off overseas, move in on GA jobs or sign contracts with the airlines.
fu**ing good one and was always going to be a winner - only better plans were the 9 to 5 campaign and resigning.
so you just keep reaping and sowing aimee and let the boys who are still in the flying game do their best to salvage the can of sh*t left over by the AFAP.:{ :{ :{