Max age single pilot with JAR ATPL(H)

[Camp Freddie]

hey guys,

now I thought i knew this one and thought the answer was 60.
but in LASORS 2004 section A, page 67 it says in the section relating to the ATPL(H) entiltled:

"curtailment of privileges of licence holders aged 60 years or more

2 Age 65

the holder of a licence who has attained the age of 65 years shall not act as a pilot of a helicopter on a public transport flight"


but on page 66, in the section relating to JAR CPL(H) it says


"curtailment of privileges of licence holders aged 60 years or more

1 Age 60 - 64

the holder of a licence who has attained the age of 60 years shall not act as pilot of a helicopter on a public transport flight except

(a) as a member of a multi pilot crew and provided that,

(b) such holder is the only pilot in the flight crew who has attained the age of 60

2 Age 65

the holder of a licence who has attained the age of 65 years shall not act as a pilot of a helicopter on a public transport flight"


this implys that an ATPL allows you to go on to 65 single pilot but a CPL does not (except multi crew), I dont have JAR FCL 2 to refer to easily to check this.
I would guess that this is a typo and they have just missed the 60-64 bit out by accident for the ATPL(H)

what do the panel think ?

[rotordk]

I usually like warped thinking, but I miss any loophole or any implied information in that information.......elaborate please...

[Camp Freddie]

uh ok,

I thought I had made myself clear but maybe not !

the ATPL(H) section does not list any curtailments of privileges until you are 65.

So I thought that implied you could continue single pilot commercial flights e.g. onshore charter right up to 65. whereas if you have a CPL(H) this is clearly prohibited after age 60.

does that do it ?, I should own up that I have a vested interest here being the proud owner of a shiny JAR ATPL(H) who wishes he had started flying many years earlier than he did, and does not want to be forced into early retirement until he is ready as he still feels in charge of his facultys (ish)

[Cathar]

I don't have Lasors 2004 but the legal requirement is in Schedule 8 of the ANO: See page 201 of CAP393 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.PDF

[rotordk]

Ok, I see your point......but if you don't excercise your ATPL privileges in flight, next logical step would be that you only use your CPL privileges , and after that your PPL privileges ....

So I doubt that it would stick.......

On the bright side, I have had the privilege of flying with some of the grey gold, and the current JAR rule is, no one over 60 flies commercially, unless multicrew.

[tecpilot]

JAR-FCL 1 or 2.060 pilot age

JAR–FCL 2.060
Curtailment of privileges of licence holders aged 60
years or more
(a) Age 60–64. The holder of a pilot licence
who has attained the age of 60 years shall not act as a
pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air
transport operations except:
(1) as a member of a multi-pilot crew and provided that,
(2) such holder is the only pilot in the flight crew who has attained age 60.
(b) Age 65. The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 65 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations.

In some countries we have special national regulations up to 65 years. But they are only in national law and do not allow an international operation in other member countries of the JAA. That means a over 60 pilot could not fly the national registrated ship in an other country.

[Bomber ARIS]

The public transport game is up at 60. UNLESS someone lets you fly as multi-crew, in which case you can squeeze out another 5 years.

Essentially, you've had it at 60 and the only way you'll do the public transport thing again is by sitting next to someone (less than 60) who will (theoretically!) not die before you do. :zzz:

[Camp Freddie]

well thanks guys, that is basically what I thought anyway, it was worth a shot but I do think Lasors is badly worded.

with a bit of luck they will change it before I get to 60 as I am in my 40's so there is time.

I did read (in flight international i think) that the medical division have no problem with 65 for single pilot or both of a multi crew, and that it is the national authoritys that are the problem. some countries that should remain nameless being amongst them (France for example)

regards

[Helinut]

When you get a committee of regulators producing legislative requirements (like JAR), they tend to trade:

"We will let you have your obsession if you allow us ours"

I understand that there was much discussion about the age levels beyond which we would be unable to do CAT. Any attempt to de-regulate is very difficult, because the same committee has to unravel all these bargains.

The presumption is that "safety standards" should always be raised. It takes a lot of evidence to counter such a presumption and to "lower" standards by allowing "old" pilots to "risk" passengers' lives. The evidence will have to be solid to battle against all that.

I hope it changes though, because I am not too far from that threshold, but I would not bet my (meagre) pension on it.......

[Martin1234]

This means that the only way someone over 65 can fly and still make money out of it is by doing flight instruction?

[Helinut]

Or other aerial work, e.g. flying private/corporate flights

[ambidextrous]

If you can pass the basecheck and the six-monthly medical what's the problem? I personally view the restrictions on post 60 pilots as being an arbitrary restriction on my right to earn a living.
We're supposed to be living in a liberal democracy? When to retire should be a matter of personal choice, not one imposed by faceless bureaucrats who almost invariably have never been at the coalface and had to suffer the consequences of their actions.
Incidentally "helinut" I'm not normally prone to boasting but in a previous life on passing the S76 Type technical with 96% at age 58(top of the class), the young ones were not amused! Like any good vintage I'm getting better as I get older. Power to the people! Ambi.

[Martin1234]

Can anyone please explain how "commercial air transport operation" is defined? What about corporate flying?

[rotordk]

Pretty simple...read JAR-OPS 3 ....
www.jaa.nl
Enjoy

[Helinut]

Ambi,

I was not saying the rule was right - just that it would be very difficult to change.

The balance is between the rights of a pax not to be killed by an old buffer pilot AND the right of an employee not to be age discriminated - no contest I fear.

The trouble is that the pax risk is so overemphasised when there probably is no evidence of a problem.