How many Type Rated pilots left?

[RowleyUK]

Does anybody have any idea how many type rated pilots there are still left out there following the 9/11 attacks?

I understand its a bit of a vague question but I am just trying to estimate how long is left until we see a definite sign of improvement for low houred chaps like myself!!;)

[Tinstaafl]

Type rated on what? Under which jurisdiction? And with what other jurisdiction's licences/qualifications? Furloughed or fired?

[High Wing Drifter]

I would guess at 'not many'.Well compared to this time last year...

[witchdoctor]

73.2 and the market should have absorbed all of these by 1432 on 8th May 2004.:rolleyes:

[RowleyUK]

Sweet baby jesus............Dont know why i even bothered asking!:mad:

[Fiske]

Well I don't know how many others are out there, but I've got a B737 type rating.

The bad news is that I've been looking for a job for ages and no one's interested.

I feel like I must be going about this job hunting the wrong way!!! Either that or something has been intercepting all the CVs I've emailed and posted.:ugh:

[Man Flex]

The question is kind of irrelevent my friend.

You don't need a type rating to get a job. Indeed a type rating may well be to your disadvantage. The airlines like to train guys their way onto their aircraft - no bad habits. They can also bond the guy for training costs and therefore be more likely to hold on to them for a few years.

When you consider that easyJet are acquiring a further 115 Airbus aircraft and if you assume a modest 5 crews per aeroplane then that suggets recruitment of 1150 pilots - with or without type rating! Assuming that quite a few of their 737 guys transfer over to the Airbus fleet possibly with a view to better command prospects then that will leave vacancies on the 737 fleet. There are almost certainly more type rated 737 guys out there than Airbus but their numbers are dwindling.

In my view easyJet for one will, out of necessity, be required to recruit a great number of non-type rated guys and many of them will be guys like you.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Each Airbus comes complete with training for the entire numbers of crew needed to operate it. Therefore there is little additional expenditure involved in recruiting non-rated pilots.

Of more importance is likely to be how orange people are perceived to be, age, location and so on.

Non-rated new hires are arguably better for the accountants as they can be bonded for a long time on a reduced salary under the TRSS scheme.

With the vast bulk of future expansion to be on the Continent then foreign language skills will be one of the highest priorities for Brits seeking to join.

I would have thought. Not that I know.

Good luck,

WWW

[Flypuppy]

Each Airbus comes complete with training for the entire numbers of crew needed to operate it. Therefore there is little additional expenditure involved in recruiting non-rated pilots.
Non-rated new hires are arguably better for the accountants as they can be bonded for a long time on a reduced salary under the TRSS scheme.

Are you suggesting that EZY are blatantly profiteering from new hires?

If Airbus are providing training included in the price of the new fleet and EZY are "charging" new hires for this training, is this not a tad unethical?

Or is this the new reality of trying to become an airline pilot? Enough people have paid for type ratings so the airlines now think it is a justifiable expense to load onto the newbie, regardless of whether it is costing them anything for the training or not.

[RowleyUK]

A nice way of thinking.

I truely believed you were at a disadvantage without the (TR).

FP- The whole training thing is becoming more and more rediculous every day. What with Ryanair not only charging for interviews but imagine if you were disabled, you'd have to pay for a wheel chair too!! :eek: := :eek:

[Flypuppy]

Rowley,

Despite the marketing speil about "must have a type rating" there are still a number of companies who are hiring without the need to pay for a type rating. Keep an eye on www.ppjn.com to see who is hiring. Don't forget that having a 737 or Airbus type rating may work against you if you are applying to smaller turboprop and regional jet operators.

Loganair, BMi Regional and VLM are three companies that spring immediately to mind who have recently hired bods directly with no requirement to pay up front for aircraft specific training. From what I can gather the market for recruitment is the most optimistic since before September 2001. With any luck the autumn of this year might see some significant movement in recruitment.

Best of luck.

[flite idol]

Well I`m sure Easy take the view that the type ratings that come as part of the aircraft deal are ultimately paid for by Easy and are thus an Orange asset! If you want a share of that asset then sign here..............
I don`t see a problem with signing a bond or service guarantee, but the whole extended reduced salary or even more unpalatable pay to apply to pay to be assesed to pay to train to get reduced pay, sucks!

[Flypuppy]

Bonding used to be seen as the Devils own invention, and there were a few "lively" threads relating to the practice a couple of years ago on PPRuNe. If the level and length of the bond is realistic then I don't see how anyone would have any problem with the concept.

Bonding does seem like a positively angelic option these days, funny how perceptions can change!

[skyman68]

that 's right, "bonding" is the best contract you can get.
I got my first bonding contract years ago, I didnt put one dollar from my pocket and living expense and training was paid by my company.(I have been laid off after 9/11:{ )

My advice is: do not pay your own type rating, it is a waste of time and money.

[mad_jock]

Whats the problem in bonding?

As long as it dosn't take the pish and you get the same money as none bonded crew who cares.

I have a 12k bond serviced by a loan which the company pays. I know they payed 25k for my training, and they pay the bond off over 2 years. I really don't see myself leaving after 2 years anyway because the company fits me. If i fit them who knows, its fun, i enjoy what i am doing, who cares as long as i turn up to work on time and answer my mobile.

MJ

[Half a Mexican]

WWW,

That's very interesting.

It would certainly back up the "a type rating may not be an advantage" theory.

From Easy's point of view, if they had to pick from two low hours F/O's you can see how they might have a preference for the non rated pilot.

Type rated F/O: Will only be bonded for a year, on a standard salary, will still have to be retrained the orange way.

Not rated F/O: Will be bonded for 5 years, on a reduced salary, will pay for own training.

Now considering that all the training is included in the price of the Airbus', from a bean counter's point of view, they could be seen to be losing 25 odd grand every time that they hire a type rated pilot on that aircraft.

For example, if they hire 10 non rated F/O's they would, depending on how you look at things, either save or make about a quarter of a million pounds in the process.


--
HaM:}

[wobblyprop]

There are a number of self-sponsored type rating people from the astraeus scheme still without a job. Several months after they finished.

One has gone back to instructing. I asked him whether he applied to easyjet and he said they would only take people they'd typed themselves.

I was seriously considering doing a type rating myself. This has put me off, somewhat.

[raspberry]

Wobblyprop,

Did these people do a type rating on its own, or did they do the type rating + 100 hours?

R

[triplespool]

People beware 100 hrs is NOT enough in this market, you need 500 on type to be taken seriously.

[raspberry]

I think you have a very good chance of gaining employment with 100 hours on type, also the economy is picking up, with that comes jobs.:ok:

R

[wobblyprop]

raspberry,

i think they did the 100hrs.

[scroggs]

With an A320 costing upwards of $40 million, the type rating courses included in the deal can hardly be said to be 'free'! It's also worth pointing out that Airbus Industries' courses are built down to a (low) price, and most UK airlines feel that they need to add a significant amount of company-specific training after trainees return from Toulouse.

However, the numbers involved suggest that obtaining a jet type rating as a low-houred fATPL may once again be clearly seen as unnecessary.

Scroggs

[eagerbeaver]

me and i know of about 4 to 5 others, all 737.

[Joe_Bar]

eagerbeaver,

Have you checked www.flightinternationaljobs.com. Couple of 737 jobs advertised there.

Cheers Joe

[Cosmic Wind]

In my experience what is far more important than a type rating is solid mutli-crew experience. For sure many are in a Catch 22 situation with regard to this. Carriers look far more favourably at someone with say 300 mutli-crew trubo-prop hours rather than a shiny un-blooded 737 type rating. Airlines seem to favour lots or next too no experience with little time for those inbetween.With many of the Eurpoean national carriers off loading experienced pilots I can't see things really improving for those at the frozen ATPL/instructor level. A great shame....