Hovered on my first trial flight!

[wish2bflying]

I just wanted to openly brag. With no previous flying experience other than in the Geosim simulator, I went on my first TIF yesterday, and the instructor was so happy with the way things were going that he allowed me to hover back near the landing area for over two full minutes. :ok: :D

His comment, while I was hovering, was "well, maybe there's something in these simulators after all!" I really don't know if I can claim landing rights, because his hands were on the controls and he definitely pushed the collective down right at the end without my help, but I did get the helicopter over to the landing pad and down almost to the ground by myself. I think he thought I was doing things too slowly.

As we walked back to the hangar, he said he didn't know of any student who didn't need several hours training to do what I'd just done (having said that, I expect several PPruNe replies saying "so what?"). :hmm:

Of course, I have had many hours of training ... in the simulator. I would have done an even better job if I had been using the controls I've been developing instead of the FlightLink controls I've got. It took a flight in the real thing to make me realise just how unrealistic the FlightLink stuff is (even though supposedly the US Army uses them!). :confused:

Anyway ... I'm stoked. I just wish I had enough money to take the training further. :{

Cheers, all

Michael.
Brisbane, Australia
Mobile: 0400 508 040

[Whirlybird]

Well, I don't want to pour cold water on your euphoria. But instructors lie. They say things to make you feel good. They make tiny inputs on the controls, which you can't feel. I've done it myself; it's dead easy, and makes a student on a trial lesson feel really good about it. I'm not sure that it isn't dishonest really, but there you are. It was done to me when I was learning; I thought I was a natural because I hovered on my trial lesson...and when I found out my instructor had been fooling me, I was really mad.

I think you were probably doing rather well, as I don't think I could do that with someone who couldn't hover at all - only with someone who'd got the general idea. But doing all you said with no help? I'd be surprised. OTOH, I'm a very new instructor, and prepared to be surprised. What does everyone else think?

[Hilico]

We were sitting in the hover. After I asked for the tenth time 'am I doing this?', the instructor held his hands up and said 'yes, look'. Apparently even being able to ask the question was a good sign - spare mental capacity. That was after months with FlightSim 98.

I was a 300 rather than a Robbo, I have to admit.

[Steve76]

My brother hovered and did straight and level on his first ever time in a helo as well... (bastard)

Grew up in Aviation but ended up a CAD design engineer using a joystick all day for work. I think the hand to eye thing associated with his work helped...not choosing aviation for a living proves he is the talented one of the family as well.

The instructor (9000hr logging pilot) was amazed to the point of disbelief that he picked up on it so fast. It was a R22 as well.

Should see the mongrel ride a bike.....kinda like squeek but with thoughts of self preservation....:}

[MOSTAFA]

Well done chap/chap'ess

I've got 8000hrs and bug*ered if I can hover in most simulators and I've tried a few. Keep it up but above all enjoy.:ooh:

[The Nr Fairy]

I was into radio controlled helicopters before I got on the real thing, but after my PPL(A). My first hovering sortie went reasonably, so my instructor told me (isn't that right, Mark ?)

And I was doing some work last year on a sim aimed at the general public (and believe me some of them do deserve the "unwashed" epithet) and because it's got no side visuals, hovering is definitely a PIA. But a full motion, cracking visuals sim I went on some years ago was fine.

MOSTAFA:

Can I have a go on the ones you're having problems with ? :D

[MOSTAFA]

Let me elaborate NR,

most military, Lynx, S61, and a few civ helo sims, Chinook, are superb for just about anything you want to practice. Most are so good as to allow some form of testing to be done, IR's, procudures, emers, any kind you care to mention and more you certainly would not want to try in the real thing.

In my experience the only small concession is that they all only offer dark outside conditions, some get close to dusk and dawn but they are not brilliant unless you are parked up next to building or somewhere with good visual references, sadly this is not really possible in most of the places that we need to simulate.

I dont believe for one second that I am unique in finding sims hard to hover in fact on the Lynx I found it best to engage the barometric height hold at the normal hover height, (Downright dangerous) in the real thing.

Send me a pm with a contact No I'll see what I can do.

[overpitched]

Whats hovering ????

[bugdevheli]

Cant resist, Built my own simulator, full size sit in job. Saw a Mr Smith at Wellesbourne airfield, told him how good I thought my creation was. " Get in this Robinson " he said, and ill show you how they handle. He executed a few manouvres that I thought were only possible in the sim, and said to me, ok, full auto down to that light green patch next to the runway. Adrenaline rush or what! His remarks were, your sim must be quite good. He said he hadnt touched the controls during the auto, and to this day I believe him. ps. He did talk a bit on the way down.

[wish2bflying]

Whirlybird:

Appreciate your input, but the instructor had his hands waving out the window most of the time I was hovering to show my dad (who was watching) that it was in fact me doing it. Up until that point he had his hands up in the air, and the intercom button he was using was mounted on the door frame, so he didn't need to have his hands on the stick. My wife, who was videotaping it, asked my dad "is that Michael doing that?" and my dad said "no way, it would take several hours training to be able to do that." I took great pleasure in telling him later that yes, it was me.

Also, the instructor knew I wasn't a potential customer at that point, so there was no reason for him to try to make me feel better about it.

MOSTAFA:

I actually think if you can hover in a simulator with only the forward view, you should do better in the real thing, because of the lack of visual cues in the simulator. It's very difficult to tell if you're starting to move backwards when you've got no peripheral screens.

I'm going to have the most kickass simulator controls around pretty soon! :D

Michael.

[B47]

Any instructor who takes his/her hands off the controls that close to the ground on a trial lesson, isn't going to live long.........

[wish2bflying]

B47:

Yes, normally I would agree with you, but this was after we had gone through several attitude holding exercises at altitude with me controlling just collective, just pedals, just cyclic, etc, and he kept his hands close to the controls at the beginning of the hover, but realised that I was holding it almost perfectly stationary and didn't need any help.

The trial flight was in a B47, by the way ...

Michael.

[vorticey]

congratulations :ok: But are you saying you controled the throttle aswell? i find this a little hard to take.
hovering is hard to do strait up because of having all your hands and feet going at the same time. of couse the sim helps this, a three axis joystick makes you practice exactly the right thoughts. i too have the same program but the yore axis is controled by twisting the joystick. i can hover the thing but find its a little harder than a real helicopter, and tends to go into an uncontroled spastic attack for no aparent reason. the planes are much more realistic.
and im not sure but i think you may be able to use it to keep your instrument endorcement current (2hrs sim and 1 actualy flying). as they're better than the prehistoric things at most flight schools.
i too was able to hover for long amounts of time on my tif, and the intructer comented that most people cant think of all the control axis in time.
but one thing that i would like on my joystick is throttle control. much more realistic.

[oldrotorhead]

Now I happen to know the instructor concerned very well and he has actually been a QFI for 30 plus years and a civvy Grade One for over 26 years.......if he said the kid was OK to that extent then he no doubt was!
I also know that having a student hover that well on his TIF is the exception rather than the rule, but it certainly does happen from time to time. My experience is that students who have some experience as radio model heli enthusiasts, gyro copter pilots and believe it or not, "Bob cat" operators, generally take to hovering like a duck to water for some unknown reason.
Either way, I also know the guy had no reason to p1ss in the kids pocket, so why don't you all just let him enjoy his euphoria for the moment?

[PPRUNE FAN#1]

A group that I belong to gives free airplane rides to kids between age 8 and 17. I personally have given over 100 such rides. The vast majority (nearly all) of these kids have never been in a small airplane before. I always stick them in the "pilot's" seat (left-hand) and offer them the ability to take the controls in flight if they want. I've only had one or two refuse. Some do well, some don't.

What I've noticed is that kids who admit to playing a lot of video games do very well. Their hand/eye coordination is extraordinary, and they seem to easily grasp the concept of moving the control wheel in a certain way to make the view out the windshield do what they want. In fact, some of them are so good that it's spooky.

I have no doubt that "wish2bflying" did so well, and congratulate him on it. That must have been incredibly fun and rewarding. I see a day coming when common computer "flight simulators" get so good that we really will be able to teach someone to fly without it having to be in a "real" airplane. Right now, with the proper hardware (control wheel/pedals) and a good sim program, it comes awfully close. I'd love to sample the sim that "wish2bflying" used, as well as the one "bugdevheli" built.

And wouldn't it be nice to cut the cost of flight training? Sims are the wave of the future. If they could only teach judgement...

[slowrotor]

I hovered the R22 on my first lesson after about 30 hours on the X-plane R-22 simulator. The sim absolutely helped save money learning to hover.
Don't think the sim helped much in approach and other maneuvers.
After 10 more hours dual I was discusted with the company. They clearly wanted to milk the training.
Most of the lessons were wasted in flight to distant airports so that I only got about two approaches for each lesson.

[Head Turner]

I started my flying training before the age of electronic things and boy I must have been a real duffer, but what I learnt the hard way has been etched into my system.
From memory I think I went solo after about 12 hours, hovering around a training square under the watchful eye of my instructor.

But here's one for the record;-

I was priviledged to fly a 101 year old lady in an R22 as a special request by her. She was good at knowing what was happening and how the controls functioned that I handed over control and she properly controlled the helicopter nicely in straight and level flight, and in balance for quite a few minutes. This was after only about 30 minutes of flying. Therefore I think your hovering is not such a wonderful achievment as you wern't trying it honestly for the first time, having primed the system by practicing on your computer