To the JAA students, a desperate call...

[Aser]

Hi!
I have the official JAR ATPL (plane) question bank (comes from Italy).
I'm looking to obtain the official JAR ATPL (H) question bank , come on guys,share your resources :ok:

I'm going to do my exams this month...:uhoh:

Regards.

[EuroSkat]

Aser, more fool you and what a waste of money - they're from about 1999/2000, a very early version without (H) questions in 034/020 and 082. There is no (H) bank, they are all included in the main question bank. What's more is that most of the questions are now not applicable in today's exams! You've been had!

[Aser]

First of all you need to known that in Spain we don't do JAA exams for the helicopter license (we are ICAO), I was just asking to known if the H bank exists.I'm ot going to use money for nothing, I have the plane question bank for free and It was very useful to do prep examns in the common things like Air Law.
I've done my last 3 exams yesterday (from a total of 16) and was very well, our CAA (it's full of sh*t) uses JAA questions for Meteo , Air Law etc.. so I want everything possible in my hands to study.
We have also some problems like specific airplane questions in our exams , do you have the same problems in JAA countries that have JAA Helicopter license?

[Watchoutbelow]

Yeah, same problem with JAA, You would think for charging so much for an exam, it must be some type of amazing piece of literatutre compiled by a master in his art.

But instead helicopter students get questions on the inertial reference systems on a boeing 737.
The important thing to do with questions like that is to specify that it is type specific and that it doesn't apply to you, leaving the examiners to eat humble pie and are forced to credit that question, no matter what answer you put!

As far as I know there is no question bank for JAA ATPH, just takes a whole lot of hard work and a bit of luck on the day
(Never trust the bastards, they are going to move the goalposts anyway, so be prepared for anything!).
And once you get the subjects out of the way, rest assured you are going to forget everything about that topic within 3 weeks!

[EuroSkat]

Aser:

I know in Spain you do that, that's because JAR-FCL 2 is not implemented there - so you will get a ''National'' licence, even thought they are allowed to use questions from the JAR bank. In the countries where JAR-FCL 2 is implemented problems still arise due to the lack of helicopter specific questions for use in JAR exams. In this case, the Authority is allowed to supplement the questions with their own (non-JAR) bank - at least in the interim until there are enough questions. Aeroplane questions were developed first, that's the reason for the lack of H questions!

Watchoutbelow:

First, the JAA doesn't charge for the exams, the Authority does, and a large proportion of questions are valid for both licences as the syllabus is common. You will only get H specific questions for H specific subjects...

[Watchoutbelow]

EuroSkat

questions are valid for both licences as the syllabus is common

Can you tell me why I need to know about EICAS/EICAM as a helicopter pilot, or what the jet stream at 40,000 feet over Guatamala in July is?
What the Cabin Pressure, in a pressurised aircraft is, or what the humidity is set as?
How to read Polarstereographic Charts when flying non stop over the South or North poles?
What Mach 1 is at 30,000 feet in Standard ELR?

I could go on and on for hundreds and hundreds of pages but as i said I forget most of the stuff because it is impossible to retain the mountain of B.S forced to learn for one 2 hour examination.

Its complete bollox, and you know it is, if you have actually done them yourself!

The U.K CAA charge 52 pounds per exam
(14 in total, don't forget to factor in the cost of getting to Gatwick to do the exam, or if doing them abroad, paying for a CAA representitive to fly first calss and stay in a good hotel at your expense) 500 pounds (at least) for the flight test, plus cost of aircraft, 500 pounds for the medical, some other silly amount for an RT licence.
Then 180 pounds just to print up the licence, 100 pounds for every other type rating
(yes, you do need a type rating if you want to fly ANY type of aircraft, and each type has to be renewed each year!) don't know what other Authorities charge, can't imagine it being to much less then that.

When doing an FAA CPL, (Far more Practical and a superior system in my view, come on try and argue with me!) $80 to do CPL written test, then about $300 plus cost of aircraft to do 4/5 hour oral and checkride and have a practical licence issued that you can fit in your wallet.


However back to the issue at hand, ASER good luick with the rest of your exams, unfortuantely I can't offer any shortcuts.

[Aser]

Watchoutbelow: It's bad to hear that , I was thinking that you guys in the first world with helicopter JAR (UK Sweden Germany etc.) := don't have the same problems like having to answer what is the Mach Trim :yuk:
I have done all my 16!!! exams in five days, yes 1.000€ just on taxes! but I wrote a letter in the responses sheet calling incompetents and everything to the people in our CAA :} , the second day , they even give me the reason and told me that I'm doing fine requesting my rights!
Anyway I feel that I'm going to pass 12 or 14 exams.

Regards.

[EuroSkat]

Watchoutbelow:

I understand your frustration, but don't you think it's the same in any profession which requires training and exams. If I want to be a financial analyst for some big investment bank, sure there'll be lots of **** I don't need to know, or even want to know for that matter, but I will still need to do the training and exam. Afterall, nobody forced you to become a helicopter pilot!!

Unfortunately in this particular case, you are wrong to constantly blame the Authorities. About 6 years ago, the JAA proposed two options to the Helicopter training industry, manufacturers and operators - 1st a lower level basic training concentrating on pure helicopter operations at CPLH level (making it hard to bridge to the A world); and 2nd, a level of basic training equivalent to that for Aeroplanes making it easier to bridge, but also involving lots of training items not necessarily related to day-to-day H operations. YOUR industry chose the latter, and of course today YOU face the consequences of that decision. Remember Helicopter pilots are smarter than Aeroplane pilots. I too could go on for 100s of pages on this issue, but at least you'll be interested to hear that the training system will change in the future on the H side, introducing a low level CPL, more suited to logging or reindeer-herding pilots - too late in your case, I'm afraid.

Sounds to me that you are complaining because you didn't expect to see these items in your exam.... If that's true then it's the fault of the training school you attended not preparing you better...be interested to hear which one you went to? Was it HAI? You'll find that the schools that offer both A & H courses, and have experience on the A side will have better pass results for their H students because they are taught side-by-side for common training....

By the way, every system in the world requires revalidation/renewal of type ratings (it's ICAO), on a yearly basis. In the future JAR H Types will be grouped into common 'types' eradicating the need for constant rating revalidations, etc.. on every aircraft.

Let's leave the FAA versus JAA debate for another time, shall we...

[Watchoutbelow]

Of course I can blame the Authorities!

They have had several years to get this sorted out now, and it is very far from it, all it seems to me is a bureaucratic mess! And the only loosers are the Students and flight crew.

It doesn't take a genius to be able to tell there is a big difference between Helicopters and Airplanes!!
Seems that the folks who make the decisions can't distinguish the difference, no matter what there military record was.

It is also worth noting that after completing 14 exams and spending obscene amounts just to get that far, you have just 3 years to get your multi engine Instrument and type rating,
Otherwise all the pointless hard work and money was for nothing, a complete waste of time.
(Nearly affordable and acceptable in the fixed wing world, realistically out of the question for the vast majority in the JAA helicopter world)
These guys in the Authorities have no understanding or respect of commercial air operations (and I don't buy the "all in the name of safety" mantra)

Also Regardless of Which FTO does the teaching, everything on the Syllabus must be covered no matter how strange and mundane it seems, so leave nothing to chance, cause they are sneaky little bastards!


Now I am going off to find my happy place:suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

[EuroSkat]

fraid to say it's attitudes like yours that do our business no good at all...

[Watchoutbelow]

Typical reply of a pen pusher!

Did you ever wonder why attitudes like mine develope?
Did you ever think that maybe the system is designed with the large commercial jet arliner or massive operator in mind, and not the small time helicopter pilot who has broke his balls and is getting screwed at every turn, just trying to make a living?

Probably not!

How about you try and put a regulation in place, stopping "attitudes like this" from developing?

[EuroSkat]

....a pen pusher with more than 10,000 hrs fixed wing and rotorcraft...

sounds like you've been listening to your instructors too much.. your opinions don't sound like those of a beginner in the business...

[Watchoutbelow]

Of course, how could I possibly have an opinion of my own?
What could I possibly know about the system?

Your just showing the arrogance that I am talking of

There are plenty of others who think just like me,
who may even also be able to form an opinion themselves and can call a spade a spade and admit that they are getting screwed