Blackhawk Down

[penash]

A BLACK Hawk helicopter has crashed near the Amberley air force base, west of Brisbane, a defence force spokesman said.

Police said the accident happened near Mt Walker about 11am (AEST).

It was not immediately clear how many people were on board.

A mayday call was received before the crash, a police spokeswoman said.

AAP

[Turbulent Eddy]

Reported to be 8 POB, Rescue 350 and Careflight 599 attending along with 4 urban fire units, and RAAF fire. Crews requesting bulk foam :(

[Ang737]

Source: www.ninemsn.com.au

Eight survive Black Hawk crash

Eight people survived a Black Hawk helicopter crash near Amberley RAAF base, southwest of Brisbane.

The helicopter crashed in rough terrain at Mt Walker during a routine training flight just before 11am (AEST), police said.
Rescue crews had to trek almost 1km through bush to get to the crash site.

A mayday call was received just before the accident, police said.
Three of the injured, including the pilot, were airlifted to Brisbane hospitals after the crash while five were treated at the scene by defence personnel.

One with chest injuries was flown to the Princess Alexandra Hospital while two others were airlifted to Royal Brisbane Hospital.

Australia has had a troubled history with Black Hawk helicopters which were bought in the late 1980s to replace the ageing Vietnam-era Iroquois.

In June 1996, 18 men were killed when two Black Hawk helicopters collided during a night-time anti-terrorist exercise near Townsville in north Queensland.

In the same year during the federal election campaign, a Townsville-based Black Hawk came close to crashing when carrying then-prime minister Paul Keating and staff into tropical rainforest near Cairns.

Four years earlier, a Black Hawk was lost in an accident at the Oakey training base in south-east Queensland.

Another made an emergency landing while on peace-keeping duties in East Timor in October 2000.

[Turbulent Eddy]

The incident involving the Blackhawk carrying the Prime Minister was caused by the tail rotor mating with a large tree...hardly the aircraft's fault :ooh:

[Chronic Snoozer]

Choppers have litany of disasters
By Kevin Meade and AAP
February 13, 2004
MERCIFULLY, they all survived. But yesterday's crash of a Black Hawk helicopter with eight people aboard revived memories of the worst chopper accident in the nation's history.

Eighteen men were killed on June 12, 1996, when two Black Hawk helicopters collided in the night sky west of Townsville. The accident happened during an anti-terrorist training exercise involving 68 men from the army's Fifth Aviation Regiment and the elite Special Air Service Regiment.

They set off that evening in six Black Hawks, but as they neared their target, one of the helicopters veered into another and both plunged to the ground. Fifteen SAS men and three air crewmen died.

A military inquiry found "negligence, deficiencies in the exercise of command and errors of judgment" on the part of a number of officers.

Charges were laid against three soldiers but were eventually dropped.

It was not the first fatal accident in the troubled history of Australia's Black Hawk fleet.

In 1992, two men died when a Black Hawk crashed at the Oakey aviation training centre -- the home base of the chopper in yesterday's crash.

During the federal election campaign in February 1996 -- four months before the Townsville accident -- a Black Hawk nearly crashed while carrying then prime minister Paul Keating and staff in the Daintree rainforest north of Cairns.

The chopper's rotor blades hit trees while landing. An army investigation blamed pilot error.

In 1995, the army revealed that because of a shortage of parts, only three of its 27 frontline Black Hawks were able to fly.

The S-70A Black Hawk first flew in October 1974, and was selected to replace the Vietnam-era Hueys in US service in 1976. The US now operates about 1000 of the type.

Australia initially adopted the maritime version, the S-70B Sea Hawk for navy service, and the Black Hawk was subsequently selected and a tender issued in 1984 worth $500 million.

The first of 39 was delivered in February 1988, with the majority assembled at the Hawker de Havilland plant in Sydney.

They are used as a utility helicopter, carrying troops, cargo or acting as a gunship and are operated by the army's Fifth Aviation Regiment at Townsville and the training school at Oakey.

The Black Hawk carries a crew of two pilots and two crewman-gunners and up to 10 fully equipped soldiers.

From The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8666678%5E2702,00.html)

Ah, journalism at its finest. 'Sensational headline that, bl00dy sensational.':yuk:

[TheStormyPetrel]

The sensationalist media (not all media) will never let go of an accident like the 1996 one. It will get dragged out again and again. They don't care about the effect it has on people who lost family and friends in this (or any) disaster. Such reports are worth complaining about. I just wish such complaints would make a difference!

[Captain Sand Dune]

It was not the first fatal accident in the troubled history of Australia's Black Hawk fleet.

There's nothing wrong with the aircraft:rolleyes:

[Wiley]

Be interesting to see if this accident revives the "the choppers should never have been taken from the RAAF" debate. I know there are some very strongly-held opinions in both camps.

[griffinblack]

Nice cast Wiley, but no cigar.

[Smedley]

Thought you might enjoy reading this account of "Blackhawk Down". The
author was one of the Blackhawk pilots depicted in the movie Blackhawk
Down. He now flies for Comair. Got this from a friend.
"During the last few days many pilots have come up to me and asked me
if I had seen the movie "Blackhawk Down." I don't mind talking about the movie, and I welcome the opportunity to talk about the heroism and valor of my friends. I just wanted to post some comments here about the movie and my impressions. Also I wanted to try to answer some frequently asked
questions.

First of all, I and many of my friends, that also flew on the mission,
thought that the movie was excellent! It is technically accurate and it is dramatically correct. In other words, the equipment, lingo and dialogue are all right on. By dramatically correct, I mean that it very effectively captured the emotions and tension that we all felt during the mission.

It did this without being a cartoon, (like TOP GUN) or being over the
top, (like FIREBIRDS). It's true that the screenwriters had to consolidate two or three people into one, but this was necessary because otherwise there would have been too many principal characters to keep track of.

Also in the actual mission we had nearly 20 aircraft in the air that
day. In the movie they had 4 Blackhawks and 4 "Little Birds." The unit could not afford to commit the actual number to the filming of the movie. However, through the magic of the cinema, they were able to give the impression of the real number.

Our force mixture was as follows: Super 61 - Lead Blackhawk; Star
41-44 Little Bird Assault; Super 62 - Trail Blackhawk. These aircraft made up the assault force. Their mission was to go into the buildings and capture the individuals who were the target of the day.

Super 61 was shotdown, killing both pilots. (They were CW4 Cliff Wolcott and CW3 Donovan Briley. The three of us shared a room at the airfield.)
Star 41 landed at the crashsite and the pilot CW4 Keith Jones ran over
and dragged two survivors to his aircraft and took off for the hospital. Keith re-enacted his actions in the movie. Super 62 was the Blackhawk that put in the two Delta snipers, Sergeant First Class Randy Shughart and Master Sergeant Gary Gordon. They were inserted at crashsite #2.

Shortly after Gary and Randy were put in Super 62 was struck in the
fuselage by an antitank rocket. The whole right side of the aircraft was
opened up and the sniper manning the right door gun had his leg blown off.

The aircraft was able to make it out of the battle area to the port area
where they made a controlled crash landing. (This is not depicted in the
movie.)

Next was the Ranger Blocking Force. This consisted of 4 Blackhawks:
Super 64 (CW3 Mike Durant, CW4 Ray Frank); Super 65 (Me, Cpt Richard Super 66 (CW3 Stan Wood, CW4 Gary Fuller); Super 67 (CW3 Jeff Niklaus, CW2 Sam Shamp)

The mission of the blocking force was to be inserted at the four
corners of the objective building and to prevent any Somali reinforcements from getting through. In the movie there is a brief overhead shot of the assault.

My aircraft is depicted in the lower left hand corner of the screen. This was the only part of the film where I come close to being mentioned. As the assault is completed, you hear the Blackhawks calling out of the objective area. When you hear, "...Super 65 is out, going to holding..." that's my big movie moment. There is also a quick shot of an RPG being shot at a hovering Blackhawk. I did have one, maybe two, fired at me, but I did not see them or the gunner. I only heard the explosions. We were not able to return fire, although some of the other aircraft did. Make no mistake. I am fully aware of my role in this mission. My job was the same as the landing boat drivers in "Saving Private Ryan." Get the troops in the right place in one piece. I
am very proud of the fact that my crew and I were able to do that. After
having done this in Grenada, Panama and Somalia, I can identify with the
bombardiers of World War Two. You have to ignore all of the chaos that is going on around and completely concentrate on the tasks at hand. That is holding the aircraft as steady as possible so the Rangers can slide down the ropes as quickly and safely as possible.

Okay, Okay, enough about me. Super 64 was shot down also with an RPG
(Rocket Propelled Grenade). They tried to make it back to the airfield,
but their tail rotor gave way about a mile out of the objective area.
They went down in the worst part of bad guy territory. The dialogue
for the movie appears to have been taken from the mission tapes as it is
exactly as I remember it. (This was the hardest part of the movie for me to watch).

The actions on the ground are as described by Mike Durant, as he was the
only one from the crew to survive the crash and the gun battle. It was here the Gary and Randy won their Posthumous Medals of Honor.

Super 66 was called in at about 2000 hours to resupply the Rangers at
the objective area. Some of the Rangers were completely out of ammunition and were fighting hand to hand with the Somali militia men. (Also not depicted in the movie). Stan and Gary brought their aircraft in so that they were hovering over the top of the Olympic Hotel with the cargo doors hanging out over the front door. In this way they were able to drop the ammo, water and medical supplies to the men inside. Stan's left gunner fired 1600 rounds of minigun ammo in 30 seconds. He probably killed between 8 to 12 Somali militia men. As Stan pulled out of the objective area, he headed to the airfield because his right gunner had been wounded, as had the two Rangers in the back who were throwing out the supplies. Once he landed, he discovered that he'd been hit by about 40-50 rounds and his transmission leaking oil like a sieve.

Super 66 was done for the night. The final group of aircraft were the 4 MH6 gunships, and the command and control Blackhawk and the Search and Rescue 'Hawk'. They were Barber 51-54 MH6's; Super 63 C&C; Super 68 SAR

In the movie, the gunships are shown making only one attack. In fact,
they were constantly engaged all night long. Each aircraft reloaded six times.

It is estimated that they fired between 70 and 80,000 rounds of minigun ammo and fired a total 90 to 100 aerial rockets. They were the only thing that kept the Somalis from overrunning the objective area.
All 8 gunship pilots were awarded the Silver Star. Every one of them
deserved it!

Next is Super 68. The actions of this crew were very accurately
portrayed. The only difference was that they were actually hit in the rotor blades by an RPG. This blew a semicircle out of the main rotor spar, but the blade held together long enough for them to finish putting in the medics and Rangers at the first crashsite. It was then that they headed to the airfield. What they did not know, was that their main trans-mission and engine oil cooler had been destroyed by the blast. As they headed to the airfield all 7 gallons of oil from the main rotor gearbox, and all 7 quarts from each engine was pouring out. They got the aircraft on the ground just as all oil pressures went to zero. They then shutdown, ran to the spare aircraft and took off to rejoin the battle. They were in the air just in time to affect the MEDEVAC of
Super 62, which had landed at the seaport. The pilots of this aircraft
were CW3 Dan Jollota, and MAJ Herb Rodriguez. Both men were later awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross.

Major Rodriguez is retired from the Army now and he teaches middle
school with my wife in Clarksville, Tennessee.

Finally there is the Command and Control Blackhawk, Super 63. In the
back of this aircraft was my battalion commander, LTC Matthews, and the overall ground commander, LTC Harrell.

In the movie, there is a scene where the men on the ground were begging
for MEDEVAC. By this point in the battle we had 5 Blackhawks out of
action, either shot down or shot up so much they couldn't fly anymore. Of the two assault force and four blocking force 'hawks', only myself and Super 67 were left. I fully expected LTC Harrell to send us in to try to get those men out.

I jacked a round into the chamber of my pistol and my M16. I knew that the only way to do it was to hover with one wheel balanced on the roof of the building. Then the Rangers would be able to throw the wounded in. I knew that we were going to take a lot of fire and I was trying to mentally prepare myself to do this while the aircraft was getting hit. My friends had all gone in and taken their licks and now I figured it was our turn. (Peer pressure is such a powerful tool if used properly.) Quite frankly, I really thought that we were at best going to get shot down, at worst I figured we were going to be killed

The way I saw it we had already lost 5 aircraft, what was 2 more? I had
accepted this because at least when this was all over General Garrison
would be able to tell the families that we had tried everything to get their sons, fathers or husbands out. We were even willing to send in our last two helicopters. Fortunately for me, LTC Harrell realized that the time for helicopters had passed. The decision was made to get the tanks and armored personnel carriers to punch through to the objective area. Once again, the dialogue in the movie is verbatim. What you don't hear is me breathing a sigh of relief! I remembered thinking that maybe I was going to see the sunrise after all.

I guess I got a little carried away. I really didn't mean to write this
much. People ask me if this movie has given me 'flashbacks'. I don't
think you can call them flashbacks if that day has never been out of my mind.

I hope that when you do see the movie it will fill you with pride and
awe for the Rangers that fought their hearts out that day. Believe me, they are made of the same stuff as those kids at Normandy Beach. When 1LT Tom DiTomasso, the Ranger platoon leader on my aircraft, told me that we did a fantastic job, I couldn't imagine ever receiving higher praise than that.

I love my wife and children, but the greatest thing I've ever done is to be a Nightstalker Pilot with Task Force Ranger on 3-4 Oct 1993.

Thank you for reading this. I look forward to answering any and all
questions anyone may have about the movie or the actual battle. I just
thought that this might fill in some of the blanks. Thank you again.

Capt. Gerry Izzo (Super65)
"NSDQ" ("Nightstalkers Don't Quit ")

[Captain Sand Dune]

Smedley – interesting story!!

But back to the original thread…………..apparently the pilots’ 10 gallon hat was obscuring his vision whilst low flying. When he tried to increase power to get away from the ground his six-shooters limited the movement of the collective, and his spurs jammed the tail rotor pedals. The last thing heard on the radio was “YEEEHAAAAAAAH!!!”
:E :E :E

[Cougar]

Sanddune,
Your inflammatory post is not needed here. For your info, the said helo was conducting fighter evasion exercises utilising low lying techniques in a simulated tactical environment. I dare say you have never experienced this, and as such, most probably cannot comment on the accident at hand. There is an investigation going as we speak and most probably the results will be made public. Until that time you should really be feeling lucky that your tax paying dollars purchased a helicopter that can survive battle damage (in this case severe crash damage), which allowed all occupants to survive.

End of story.

[Arm out the window]

Certainly was a miracle and a testimony to the ruggedness of the airframe that no-one was killed. How are the injured getting on? It seems from the news reports that there were some serious injuries amongst the people on board.
Any more info of a non-speculative nature as to what happened?

[Cougar]

G'day Arm,

From Defence Media Release:

13/02/2004 Departmental 21/04

UPDATE ON THE ARMY BLACK HAWK HELICOPTER CRASH IN SOUTH QUEENSLAND

On Thursday 12 February at approximately 10.00am local time, a Black Hawk helicopter undertaking a training flight was involved in an accident near Mt Walker at the Amberley Training Range, Queensland.

Of the eight persons on board, six members suffered injuries. The current status of the injuries as of this morning is:



One member suffered a spinal fracture and will undergo surgery over the weekend.


One member suffered breaks to his wrist and knee and is recovering from surgery.


Two members received minor injuries and are being held for observation at Amberley Base medical facilities.


One member sustained minor injuries and is being held at Royal Brisbane Hospital for observation.


One member sustained neck trauma similar to whiplash and is being held at Princess Alexandra Hospital.


The other two members are being held for observation at Enoggera Army Base Hospital

The Accident Investigation Team arrived in Brisbane last night and is commencing investigations today. An initial assessment of the aircraft indicates it is damaged beyond economical repair.

The RAAF Service Police, in conjunction with Army Military Police, are securing the scene.

At this time there are no broader implications for the Black Hawk fleet, pending the outcomes of the investigation into the accident. At the time of the accident Commander of the Army Aviation Training Centre imposed a pause on flight training in order to support the efforts at the accident site.

Normal flying training is expected to resume on Monday, 16 February 2004. Operations flying continue and there are no restrictions on the use of aircraft deployed on operations in East Timor.

The Black Hawk is a reliable, robust and highly capable aircraft that has served Australia well over the past sixteen years.

The ADF has clocked up over 108,000 Black Hawk flying hours since the aircraft came into service in 1988.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Cougar,

Spare me your indignation. Been there - done that.

[captain69]

Oh joy, the port in Mogadishu, makes the Wild West look like a tea party for nuns.

[Cougar]

Sanddune,
Would you care to explain your post then in the light of your in depth knowledge? What exactly were you trying to say?

[Captain Sand Dune]

Cougs baby,

AAvns' safety record since aquiring the Blackhawk seems to speak for itself, doesn't it?

[balance]

Jeez, SD. Shaky ground, mate. Just remember, this ain't a slanging match, but some things just gotta be said.

Try taking a look at the RAAF record with the UH1H, and then compare it to that of AAAvn. I would suggest that no less than FOURTY gallon hats were worn by the RAAF when they had the venerable Huey in comparison to the Army. BTW - the Army haven't lost a Huey since they took them over in 1990. A few incidents, but not one injury - touch wood!

Now AAAvn haven't had a good run with the S-70, but you need to view it in perspective.

[bitter balance]

Balance - if you are talking about perspective here - how many of those hats were acquired in Vietnam? How does the RAAF UH-1H mission compare to the AAvn mission since the intro of the S-70?

[CSL]

While we are getting our balances sorted out maybe someone can answer a couple of questions for me (no - have no interest in either side)

1. If comparing UH1H ops- what is the army using the hueys for - ash and trash or tactical inserts? ie how close are their ops to the limit of the aircraft
2. Do they still have a gunship role?
If comparing Raaf UH1H to army S-70 (apples to oranges) then
3. What's the S-70 single engine OGE capability like?
4. Does the S-70 suffer have tail rotor authority limits in cross winds?
5. does army operate it so it has SE engine performance in all ops?
6. Is S-70 limited to how many troops it can carry in the tropics or is it able to carry a full load everytime.

As for the accident - very unfortunate for those involved But you have to practice hard in case one day you find youself in the real thing. Hope they are on the mend real soon and back in that saddle.

cheers,
CSL

[Gibbo]

I do not think that a RAAF v AAAvn slanging match is in order, really! :(

Hope all make a speedy recovery.

Gibbo


I agree with you Gibbo. Please stick to the thread subject, and in that remember that where accidents are concerned, until competent accident reports are published, a certain decorum is appropriate.

Woomera

[balance]

Agreed Gibbo. This is not a slanging match. The statistics/roles etc will certainly reveal differences. But the point remains.

SD however, obviously has an inappropriate bone to pick (ie anti AAAvn) and the guy needs to be pulled into line.

[Runaway Gun]

The important bit is that everyone got out alive. A big "well done" is deserved for all involved. I hope all injuries are patched up as good as new. :ok: