I/R Sim or Actual M/E Hours

[Howski]

Hello All


As we all know there are many different schools who do the I/R courses, however many of them differ as the courses they provide have varying hours of actual M/E Time v's M/E Sim time.

For instance one school I know does 40 Sim and 15 Actual, how much of a difference do you think this makes to a potential employer ?? also is 15 Actual enough for a difficult courses such as the I/R is ???

Regards

Howski :ok:

[TubularBells]

Tagged onto the back of this question (providing you don't mind too much Howski!;) ) I also like to ask if it also makes a difference in the type of sim that one trains in (i.e visuals\no visuals, frasca 142, FNTPII etc)?

Cheers!

TB.

[18greens]

I don't think employers are bothered how you get the IR but they will look at how many Multi hours you have. You can't really log the sim time so the I don't think the type of sim matters.

The other issue is will you do the IR with only 15 hours on the plane. The sim is great for procedures and provides a vital part of the course but the plane in the real world with turbulence, unpredictable winds random air traffic etc.. is another level.

I think the more hours in a real plane is better for you in terms of logged hours and chances of passing the IR first time.

Either way good luck.

[Pilot Pete]

It's a commonly asked question, as is the one of adding these hours into ones total time.

I think 18 greens has summed it up correctly. Airlines need to put ticks in boxes when it comes to handing out selection places. One of them is a suitable licence (read CPL/multi/IR frozen ATPL) here in the UK. If that is what they want and that is what you have you get 'that' tick in 'that' box. Total hours may (usually is) be another box that needs a tick. If they are looking at recruiting very low hours straight out of training pilots then it makes no difference if you have 200 or 300. If you include sim time in that total I think you could run into trouble, especially if they want (lets say) 500hrs TT and you claim 505hrs of which 50hrs are sim time from your IR/MCC/JOC etc. I think you don't meet the criteria set down and are in danger of being thought of as trying to claim more hours than you actually have.

If you don't agree then why not go and do another few hundred hours in an FNPTII sim and bump your total up that way, much cheaper than paying for a real twin aircraft?

Airlines are not interested in sim time. They want to know how many 'real' hours you have and that does not change as you get more experienced gaining type ratings and airline time; when it comes to dishing out commands I know of no airline which considers a pilots now (not inconsiderable) total number of hours in full motion sims.......................

I'd go for what suited me best. If you get more aeroplane hours than another course for the same price I'd take that course (all other things being equal), but it may be that other factors come into the decision, like if you live next door to one training provider it may be that what you save in living costs makes up for the lack of aeroplane hours (and possibly allow you to spend some of that money on something after the multi/IR).

Best of luck whatever you choose.

PP

[TubularBells]

Thanks for the info.

TB.

[cesspit]

At the risk of veering off track alittle, also important is the chance of a first time pass.

Not only because of the financial benefit, but as I found out chatting to one potential airliner recruiter, he sifted applicants who passed first time, considering those who partialed has having 'failed'.

A school near me offers the 40 hour sim / 15 flying option, and has never returned a good first time pass rate.

The local examiner is of the opinion (and it is only an opinion, albeit quite an informed one), that because the students spend so much time on the sim, the school is turning out good sim pilots, which does not translate into good aircraft pilots.

The FNPT 2 does not have the same feel as the aircraft and does not run into the same problems, i.e. ATC issues, weather e.t.c.

Where the sim is good is to fine tune skills, practice procedures (especially the rarer ones!) and work on weak areas.

Ideally the mix should be with a greater emphesis on a/c time, and that need not all be M/E, as S/E maybe just as useful.

Yes more a/c time adds to the cost in the short term, but will save on re-test fees. I can't help thinking that some schools maximise sim time not only to be able to advertise a lower cost IR, but also to maximise their profits as the sims are are darn site cheaper to run and easier to make a profit on then a/c. This is not the best option for the student.

[tom24]

I flew 20 minutes on the King air sim (non IR related) thing and found it awful. Absolutely no comparison to the real thing at all. How i am going to cope with training in the thing for IR is beyond me. Maybe practice makes perfect?

I think to enhance my chances of success in the IRT i would rather pay a couple of grand more and actually log the twin hours.

[nasib]

Quote
Yes more a/c time adds to the cost in the short term, but will save on re-test fees. I can't help thinking that some schools maximise sim time not only to be able to advertise a lower cost IR, but also to maximise their profits as the sims are are darn site cheaper to run and easier to make a profit on then a/c. This is not the best option for the student.
Unquote

I must be missing something here. The schools offer the maximum allowed in the sim because that is the cheapest option for the student. It would, without doubt, be much better to do more hours in the aircraft. I would imagine most schools (and certainly the one I work for) would be glad to oblige any student who wishes to do less hours in the sim and more in the aircraft. The student only has to express that preference, and of course be ready to pay for it.

Personally, I would advise any student who can afford it to do the whole course in the aircraft. The difference (in our school) would be a mere £9,200!

Nasib

[LFS]

Although Nasib has a point I would never advise a student to complete a whole IR course in the aircraft. 35 hours sim may be too much, however the sim still has its uses. For example: you cannot freeze a flight in the aircraft to see what is going on, you cannot plot the hold that has just been flown and in the sim the instructor has the ability to decide what 'curve balls' to throw at the student to see what they can deal with. It is all about getting the correct balance between sim and aircraft.