CASA Raids Meatbombers No 2

[QNIM]

Gday

Last week the principal of the meatbombers at Barwon Heads was arrested for the alleged assault of one of the members of the Barwon Heads Safety Committee.

It is alleged another member of the committee has taken out a restraining order against the principal and the chief parachute instructor.

The owner and operator of the airfield has set up the committee with representatives of all the users including the meatbombers to draw up a set of operating rules (taken from CASA and APF regs) that must be adhered when operating at the airfield, it is understood the meatbombers refused to comply.

Two people from CASA and one from the APF arrived last Wednesday to apply further restrictions to the meatbombers, it is believed one of them being that they must not jump if conditions were under VMC below 10,000 ft.

As these gents were about to depart it was pointed out to them that the jump plane was climbing above cloud, if they cared to wait they would witness a breaking of that rule, they cleared out as fast as they could.

Just makes you wonder.

Cheers Q :confused:

[Boney]

Yes, does make me wonder?

I heard there is a charactor that sits regularly by a hanger down there with a hand held radio butting in on the jumpers organising separation with other aircraft and confusing/jeopardising the safety of arriving/departing aircraft and the meat bombs.

This same person also used to work for the said company but got the sack.

This person would want to be carefull. No doubt the operator is sick to death of the harassment and sooner or later, legal ramifications will be on the way.

I feel sorry for this pathetic creature who obviously desparately needs to get a life - not you is it Q?

[marreeman]

Qnim this is not the only place to be blatantly breaking the jumping through cloud rule. A few months ago there was a thread about this sort of carry on at YGWA. Happened to be in that neck of the woods last weekend & they were at again, 8/8ths & still dropping. Personally I don't believe casa want to do anything about it they appear to be, to interested in trying to make life for reputable AOC holders harder for minor accidental indiscretions.

[QNIM]

Gday Boney

"Nup"

Gday Marreeman
I totally agree, its about time CASA got real with these meatbombers, that are not clubs and force them to hold an AOC like every other GA organization, advertising and charging for their services.

Cheers Q :confused:

[Ang737]

In defence of the parachute operators, you can not generalise about all operators being serial rule breakers. There are outfits out there that don't pressure us pilots to bust minimas and fly fully loaded. The club I fly at is dead against breaking rules and regs which makes it a pleasure to fly.

Jump flying is some of the most enjoyable flying you can do. The people you meet and experiences one gains is great. Anyway my two cents worth...

Ang ;)

[swh]

I dont know the operators involved, however some operators have an exemption under CAR 152 for "Authorisation for parachute descents through cloud". I have also seen an NPRM that CASA has put forward to allow it.

Dont think the exemption actually covers the aircraft.

CASA has also issued Authorisation CASA 205/98 to the Australian Parachute Federation for "Authorisation and specification in relation to parachute descents".

CASA has also issued Authorisation CASA 206/98 to the Australian Sky Diving Association for "Authorisation and specification relating to parachute descents".

[rs480]

Boney

Well what a gob full and most of it bull**** ever thought (if you can) about getting the facts right?

The guy you refer to never worked for the halfwit operator and neither would anyone with an ounce of sense as he exploits all his staff and gives them up at will to the authorities to protect himself.

It’s people like you and the operator that confuse and jeopardize SAFETY don’t know your reason but the operators is $$$$ and at anyone’s expense.

Before you shoot off at the lip again it may be best to take a little time to familiarize yourself with the regs.
May help to prevent you from making yourself look like an IDIOT in future.

The operator can be as sick to death as he likes, what the guy is doing is within the regs. unlike the operator.

It is you I feel sorry for, as it must be an unbelievable burden to go through life being so stupid. (no prize for 2nd place)
:yuk:

QNIM

Spot on what more can I say the COPS and CASA have got it right.
:ok:

Griffinventure:

CASA should take a look at any dodgy operator but need to be advised of all breaches of regs. remember it has taken 3 years and 100s of reports to get action at B.H.
Maybe when the B.H. saga is resolved it will set precedence and the industry will be cleaned up.
;)

Ang737

I agree and you’re a lucky chap.

ps. Any chance of the club you fly for coming to B.H. all the promotional work has been done and a professional competitor may put this clown out of business?
:D

Rs480
:cool:

[the wizard of auz]

griffinventure, I hope that stick your poking into that wasps nest is a long one. ;)

[Islander Jock]

Wiz,
check ya PMs

[Travelair]

I suppose any operation can be "an accident waiting to happen", but griffin, I know the operator you mention south of PH, and after seeing him fly...I really hope nothing ever happens. But its frustrating, because pilots, especially low timers, unfortunately do not put reports in when they should. So CASA/ATSB (which we have to live with) never really know.

Ive flown ypjt to albany IFR, on 8/8 days at 8000 feet, in june, july, and these clowns are jumping from 10000 upwards. Reported it, been told it will be investigated...to this day... funny thing is that ATC and pearce both know about them...and they give tham as traffic, blah, blah, blah, but CASA does not know anything.

PJEis a big money industry, some operators Im sure do the right thing. I have flown for some PJE ops in my time (one very good one over east), and it is a great way to learn and enjoy flying.

Sorry to say that maybe it will take an accident with some foreign tourists (even though they have signed the "Im risking my life" form) for something to happen.

By the way, downwing t/o in a navajo Id say is ok, if winds are 5kts like the manual says, but with that strip, and those trees, and that weight...stupid. Tip of the iceberg?



:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

[sako]

you may have seen the other post Goolwa IFR, if the people are prepared to report the offenders,who are the best people to notify in the sky dive world ? Will they take notice ? Will it make any difference ?

[Islander Jock]

Sako,

My advice would be to make my first point of contact the Area Safety Officer (ASO) for the state council concerned.
South Australian Parachute Council -
GEOFF COOLING
Phone No(s), 08 8272 8229 (wk); 0409 707 775
Email [email protected]

One would hope that if there is a blatant disregard for the association's Operational Regulations by an operator then it could be adequately dealt with at the state level.

If you receive no joy from the state ASO then I would go direct to:
National Director Of Safety, Graham (Dixie) Lee in Perth on (08) 9339 6439 or mobile 0412 122041, or
Director of Aircraft Operations, Al McVinish 07 4668 0135, mob: 0428 457840.
I would also CC any correspondence at the national level to the appropriate CASA FOI. Phone CASA on 131757 and ask for the FOI responsible for sport aviation in the state concerned.

The APF numbers given above are all taken from the APF website.

Whether it will make any difference is doubtful. There were reports of a certain pilot in WA taking off with control locks in, contually busting CTA, flying and dropping meatbombs through 8/8ths, blasting off with the door open and a skydiver being literally dragged into the plane as it became airborne. And that was just one pilot at one DZ.

Nothing is likely to be done either by CASA or the APF until there is smouldering wreckage at the end of a runway somewhere with a few corpses fused together. As has been said before, there is big bucks in this game and regulation is enforced by enthusiastic volunteers often with personal agendas. Think along the lines of an FOI being responsible for surveillance of flying training and also him/herself being CFI of an operaton within that area. That is how the APF operates.

[Travelair]

Sorry Islander, but I really doubt the National director will do anything about it. He, the same as all APF people, derive income from skydiving, and once in a while jump though cloud if they need to, and jump into aeroplanes pushing the pilot to go...

You said it, the day the accident happens things might change. Until then, the people responsible for the safety (pilots) are the only ones with the power to not do the wrong thing, and give CASA HELL until something is done about unsafe practices.

Forget the APF on this matter.

[Floody]

I dropped chutes for 3 months over East, out of a 206. Every weekend, usual grind of Saturday drops. Only twice did I refuse to drop, the first because the 2nd radio wasn't operating, so a replacement was found, problem solved. The second, it was 8/8 at 7,500ft. Operator trying to get me up over it but I told him either we land, or we drop from 7,500ft. So we landed. Much to his disgust, but he saw me reasoning for it later on.

Those were the only 2 problems I ever came across. I was lucky in that the owner of the DZ and other skydivers involved there, were quite good in that they followed the rules as much as possible, and didn't make life too difficult for myself.

If you find a good parachute operator, all good and well, but dodgy ones are just way to dangerous to tolerate. Throw in a report, and encourage others to do the same.

Certainly enjoyed my time dropping meatbombs, and learnt a hell of a lot from it.

Floody

[Hung Starter]

I have a question!

QNIM
Simply what is the purpose of your thread?:rolleyes:

I have read the original you started a while back and now a second go for what reason?

There has been some very interesting comments made about the sky diving world and its operators. Some very correct and educational. Also some rubbish.
But QNIM what are you trying to achieve here. A collection of people to hate the BH mob?
Why dont you start a local petition of support for your views and get it off to CASA and the local council.
Just keep sending them off. They will get the message in a while.

A number of years ago I was a meatbomber and enjoyed it very much. At the higher level it is a very responsible, challenging, and rewarding job with great people.
I found the tourist and bigger turbine operators to be very profesional and safe. They also pay very well compared to other GA or entry level small airlines.
One such operation over east has been operating IFR for a number of years now and as far as I know have little probs with traffic, or incidents on marginal days.

Also QNIM, dont quote speculated rubbish like;

"it is believed one of them being that they must not jump if conditions were under VMC below 10,000 ft"

So are you saying there is a new APF and CASA reg just for BH.

SWH
Once again your on to it with the facts. Always enjoy your posts.

rs480
states "Spot on what more can I say the COPS and CASA have got it right"
So whats the problem?

HS

PS. I also think the tandem operators should go the AOC way but I can see that in the meantime the effective body doing the same thing is the APF for the sport side of it. CASA dont have the time or the experience to deal with this so rely on the APF.
As for the a/c well thats another topic!

[sako]

Thanks Jock

i think a few people are getting into the ear of the authorities concerned,

there is no excuse for them not to act. should an inocent tandem get hurt, there inaction will be exposed.

come on casa and others do something, you are getting info handed to you on a platter.

[QNIM]

Gday

Friday the 13th is a great day for aviation.
I have been handed a copy of a faxed letter to the Meatbombers at Barwon Heads from CASA today, then to other interested parties.
I tried to scan it so as to post it but I dunno it don’t work, so I typed it the hard way.

Australian Government.
Civil Aviation Safety Authority
13 February 2004

Luke McWilliam
Skydive City Pty Ltd
1405 Barwon Heads Road
CONNEWARRE VIC 3227

USE OF BARWON HEADS AERODROME
REGULATIONS 92 AND 152 DIRECTIONS

I attach for your information direction made today pursuant to regulations 92 and 152 of the Civil Aviation Regulations 1988. The effect of the directions is that parachute descents may not be made within a 2 mile radius of Barwon Heads aerodrome. The direction is effective from today.

The directions are made in the interests of safety of air navigation. They have been made to protect the safety of parachutists, aircraft and persons in the vicinity of Barwon Heads aerodrome. This is because since at least 2001, Luke McWilliam and Skydive City Pty Ltd have been party to breaches of 152 of the Civil Aviation Regulations 1988, when parachutists exiting from aircraft operated by Luke McWilliam and Skydive City, including VH-MOS, have descended through cloud and near other aircraft.

If you have any questions concerning the directions, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0262171139

Yours sincerely


Tony Rothwell
General Manager
Aviation Infrastructure and Sport Aviation Branch.


So what have they done moved to a small paddock adjacent to the circuit area of the other training airfield in the CTAF. They are really desperate.
I am sure that will be sorted early next week.

Cheers Q

[QNIM]

Gday Meatbombers/Dirt Darts

It is alledged that there are far more reaching restrictions from various authorities to the skydiving operations at Barwon Heads than those just implemented.

Thanks Guys

Cheers Q :O

[Lukeatme]

Well all the posts on CASA doing something at last to protect all concerned around the BH area is to be applauded, must say it is about time! why do these people not move to a more isolated area that traffic will not interfere with (for there own safety as well) I seem to remember that a Geelong Club was in the Meredith area for many years without any noted trouble? suppose the dollar grab is better than safety though? Do think this is only a temporary fix as they started in this area obeying all rules just to get a foot in the door and then anarchy reined supreme, but the department may now have it in hand as they are tigers once they too get the bit by the teeth.
Sounds as though by Qnim it is still about to become a bit more safe, well that can only be a great step forward for all concerned.
I notice in the local paper that the DZ operator is bemoaning the fact he is losing 10 thousand dollars a DAY? MM! sure is not about money hey? he states that he has never had an accident here but as we all know that is just pure luck on his part as the more cloud dropping can only cause the chances of it happening.
If his figure of $10,000 a day can be believed can you imagine the amount of drops this is and the concerns that the average Joe are about the safety of all other persons flying in and around this place?

[the wizard of auz]

the thing is, no one is flying around the place. their all flying through the place. I am sure if it was a DZ, it would be marked on a chart some where as a danger area. What does it take to fly around the area? (unless its your destination).
sounds to me like there are people with an axe to grind (other than the saftey concerns) and are just using the rules and regs to prove a point. How very GA!
you people need t get a life and move on.

[QNIM]

Gday justapplhere

It certainly is real and signed by Tony Rothwell.

I think your criticism of the investigaters is some what harsh, they have been working on this problem for at least three years.
I think the delay was further up the chain.

Cheers Q

[Hung Starter]

Im with you Wizard!
It does sound a bit like axe grinding going on down there by a select few.
I would like to think that in time the operator will sort out some sort of danger area just like they have at Picton DZ south of Sydney.
Then I would imagine the area would be safer and the wingers can move on!

HS

[Air Ace]

justapplhere. I would think Rothwell would hold that delegation.

However in view of Sect 9 of the Civil Aviation Act, how is CASA able to determine commercial parachuting operations as private category operations and delegate it's regulatory responsibilities to sports aviation organisations? (E.G. Ultra lights and parachuting.)

[swh]

Air Ace,

Basically its sport as they all jumpers need to be a member of a club, and "purchases" are done through the club (in theory).

Where I see it gets very grey is advertising for services, that requires and AOC, adverts I see don't say become a member of a skydive club for one day and we will give you an introductory push out an aeroplane, rather "Tandem Jump thrill of your life" etc.

Some states clubs use similar rules to get around the liquor licensing rules, instead of buying say a beer, they purchase a raffle ticket from the club, you just happen to get a beer with the raffle ticket.

[Air Ace]

swh,

The Civil Aviation Act 1988 states:

9. CASA's Function:
CASA has the function of conducting the safety regulation of the following, in accordance with this Act and the regulations:

(a) civil air operations in Australian territory.

My question is: "How is CASA able to determine commercial parachuting operations as private category operations and delegate it's regulatory responsibilities to sports aviation organisations? (E.G. Ultra lights and parachuting.)"

In view of CAR 210, how are commercial parachuting operations able to publicly advertise their services?

justapplhere seems to be "close to the CASA action" and generally seems to be correct in his/her interpretations.

Not knocking your interpretation, but I have a real problem in "joining a club" and "buying a raffle ticket" where air safety is concerned.

[bach]

I've read this gossip from the beginning and it appears that much of it is "gossip". Being in the West and a Board member of the APF I am more than happy to hear from people who can give me facts and dates and first-hand accounts of breaches of regulations. If pilots are flying "questionable" overloaded aircraft and flying in cloud without appropriate ratings this should be looked into. As should jumpers who breach the regulations. The APF is serious about enforcing the rules and I take offence when unconfirmed accusations are made in a public forum. Many of the statements made on this topic could be considered libel. I would suggest that in this forum accusations are made because the authors cannot be identified. Give me the facts and dates and identify yourself and action can be taken.

[Woomera]

bach:

"I am more than happy to hear from people who can give me facts...." and

"Give me the facts and dates and identify yourself and action can be taken."

I'm sure those who have posted comments in this thread would like to provide you with those facts.

May I suggest you activate either or both your PPRuNe Private Message or Email function as it is currently impossible for anyone except a Moderator to contact you?

I am more than willing to immediately remove any posting which is subsequently proven gossip, libelous or contrary to the rules of PPRuNe.

Woomera

[swh]

Air Ace,

By operating as a club, its looked at as a "Private Operation", you seem to have a copy of the regs and act so you can look that one up.

In theory you are not paying for the flight, the club does, and everyone is a club member.

My point that I mentioned above, and you have restated is you need an AOC to advertise, it is possible, and I believe it is done that some PJE operators have and AOC and fly around IFR.

If you want to have a look at INSTRUMENT NUMBER: CASA 388/00 (http://www.apf.asn.au/apf_admin/downloads/CASAspecification%20388-00.htm) follow the link, its the conditions for PJE ops, two of these have been issued, one to each of the large PJE orgs in oz.

Not withstanding this, it is plausible to conduct the PJE ops commercially under an AOC, making general comments about all PJE operators on this forum will not serve anyone any good.

Just some facts, I am not involved in the area at all.

Its bit hard to stroke every club and PJE operator with the same brush, there are some very professionaly orgs out there, and some not so, just like a cross section of the wider community.

[bach]

Thank You Woomera for alerting me to that oversight. I have now activated my Private message function and look foward to recieving the facts, dates and first-hand accounts.

[Woomera]

Go Here

CASA Miscellaneous Legislative Instruments (http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/rules/miscinst/index.htm)

And open

CASA 64/04
Specifications under regulation 152 of CAR 1988 relating to parachute descents at Barwon Heads Vic (February - Revokes CASA 36/04).

CASA 63/04
Direction under subregulation 92(2) of CAR 1988 relating to the parachute operations in the vicinity of Barwon Heads Vic (February - Revokes CASA 34/04).


refers.

It's all there on the record.

[GW_04]

Once again swh...your onto it!
Woomera...cheers mate. Have read this one.

Its interesing to note that CASA has not shut these guys down but moved them as such with a new reg in place.

I think there is a lot of pending things going on at the moment with the BH troubles and all, also with other DZ's about.
This kind of stuff has been going on a long time at other DZ's around the country.
Unfortunatly it becomes a war of jumpers against the others so to speak. As stated in a post, they came with good intentions but it turned sour.
From my past experiences thats what has happened at some 3 or 4 DZ's I know off.
I dont think its a matter of the DZ operator's becoming complacint ******s like QNIM and the like's would like you to believe, but more a fact of the area or airfield not used to the high number of A/C movements invading the space and seeming to own the place because of all the action.
And also not understanding the whole skydive neighborhood!

By moving jumpers and ringing CASA every 5 minutes because it apears they are not within the regs, or pissed off they are in your space all day, is not the answer to me.

There needs to be more research done by the APF and CASA to make the modern skydiving world (BUSY) a much safer and better place for all. Regulated as such!

As far as cloud punching goes:
In NZ read Part 105.25 (b)
A person may decend through cloud in airspace designated under Part 71 as controlled airspace, and classified as Class C or D, if they have an ATC clearance to do so.

In AUZ there is a proposed rule well worth reading for the in's and outs of it all. Go here. I hope it develops for saftey sake.
http://rrp.casa.gov.au/miscprojects/nprm0012os.asp

Air field user groups are all good too. Here where we operate is one of the busiest airports and areas in the country and we ALL operate within an MOU (Memorandum of Understanding).
ATC included. It works very well.
Maybe if people got a bit more proactive on the whole thing people like QNIM would stay a lot more happy and the BH mob won't have to lose so much dosh every day because of grey area's if you know what I mean.

Hope it all works out for all!
Bye for now.
Cheers GW
;)

[luke@yourselves]

I’m sad to say, you sorry bunch, that.

I’ve been hearing about the bull that’s been going on at this site but until I’d read all the threads I couldn’t believe the amount of absolute rubbish that seems to be coming from rs480, Lukeatme and QNIM. I’ve been flying in and around Geelong for the past 15 years and it would appear that you all have your noses out of joint as a result of his pink one being a bloody site bigger than yours.

So guys, what are you going to do when the dirt darts come back, I hear they’ve legalized jumping through cloud, so it cant be that dangerous after all. My suggestion is you start working out how you are going to work with them for the safety of all concerned

[QNIM]

Gday luke@yourselves

With all my faults, Im still to Penetrate controlled airspace without a clearance .

Have a nice day :O

Q :O

[the wizard of auz]

:\ I have........... so whats the biggy with that?. It happens and is unintentional, not like doing stuff on purpose. 12 years of flying and it finally happened :{ .

[QNIM]

Gday Wiz

Did it cause a biggy to abort it's approach and was your licence suspended?

Cheers Q :confused:

[the wizard of auz]

Uuuuum, nope, just a simple "clipping of the edge of class C". I dunno if I'm going to get shot for it yet................... Still waiting.
could have aborted an approach if my timing was a bit better though. :uhoh:

[Dale Harris]

You shoulda aborted that approach you did in melbourne oh, maybe around early 2002........

[gaunty]

Hey Dale,

Aborted the approach ??....:E ........ geeez, by the time I got there he already had the chocks under and the covers on. :p :ok:

[the wizard of auz]

Oh dear, three people on two threads having three seperate shots on the same subject................ and your all still guessing. :}
some of you have extreemly selective memories. I was too crook to commit the deed.......remember? :\ ;)

[gaunty]

Damn where's Go Girl when you need her:=

Yeah! just keep sending the money and I'll keep selectively remembering. :ok: :E

[Lukeatme]

Luke@Yourselves

Only 15 years? your just a kid!! a little wet behind the ears though, all this talk about penetration what the hell give us your spot for finding the jump through cloud site? BUT on a serious note if that has happened then maybe it is going to turn around and be safer! I for one do hope so as no matter what you guys say it is NOT SAFE the way it was going. And yeah lets hope the jump operator can talk to people and indeed listen to others as his is the closed mind.

By the way have you broken up my name?

[BackdoorBandit]

Is the aircraft you fly capable of climbing high enough to breach CTA?:{

[Dale Harris]

Hey wiz, obviously you weren't, no guesswork - straight from the horses mouth so to speak, and we'll forgive you when you pay us enuf!!

[Lukeatme]

Looks like the new system must be working OK as no posts?

[QNIM]

Gday
Yep very quiet from where im sitting. :O
Cheers Q

[QNIM]

Gday
It's taken a long time for someone to tell it as it is.
The local state member for South Barwon Mr M Crutchfield has finally told the whole ugly story in State Parliment, it's worth a read ( Hansard-Parliament of Victoria ) 4th March 2004.
This man is to be congratulated for finally sifting through the bull**** served up by certain posters and others, advising the members of parliament what the real facts are.
We should see some action now.
Start repacking guys
Having a great day.
Cheers Q

[OZBUSDRIVER]

http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/downloadhansard/pdf/Assembly/Autumn%202004/Assembly%20Daily%20Autumn%204%20March%202004.pdf

Then go down to adjournment on the bookmark, look for parachuting: regulation

Especially like the bit about being a commercial operation

Regards

[rs480]

QNIM

Well well well who would have guessed that was happening at B.H.:uhoh:

Now the cats out of the bag one would suppose the authorities will have a serious look at the regs. :ooh:

If they decree that AOC’s are the flavor of the month the industry will only have one
Person to blame their fellow operator at B.H. :8

Rs480
:cool:

[rs480]

justapplhere

You’ve lost me I haven’t a clue what you’re on about.:confused:
When the smoke clears try again.;)

Cheers
Rs480
:ok:

[Lukeatme]

JUSTAPPLHERE Do not worry about the wording it is fact son!

Hell have you seen the area they now drop in? it is right next to the power lines (high Tension) sure would release some pent up nerves if you went into those babies.
But the paying tandem oops club members mm!!! would not know about it until they see it, but hey at least the circuit area is a lot safer than before!!

Hope it stays that way!!

[Disco Stu]

Is this related to what seems to be being discussed here,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1065653.htm

Last Update: Sunday, March 14, 2004. 5:25pm (AEDT)
Woman dies on 200th parachute jump
A 24-year-old British woman parachutist has fallen to her death while making her 200th jump, over Barwon Heads this afternoon.

Police says the young woman's main parachute became entangled in her reserve chute soon after jumping from a plane at 14,000 feet.

The woman's body was found by police in a field near the Barwon Heads airport shortly after 4:00pm AEDT.

A report is being prepared by police for the coroner.

The dead woman's name has not been released.

[OpsNormal]

In addition to what Disco wrote:

From news.com.au....



Skydiver shares kiss before death

By Mariza Fiamengo

16mar04

A SKYDIVER shared a kiss with her boyfriend in mid-air just before she plunged to her death near Melbourne at the weekend.

Clare Barnes, 24, the daughter of Denis MacShane, a British Foreign Office minister and Carol Barnes, a television newscaster, was killed when her parachute malfunctioned during a jump with her boyfriend at Barwon Heads on the weekend.

Skydive City Club manager Luke McWilliam said the couple were unaware that tragedy was moments away when they shared the romantic moment as they were free falling during her 200th jump.

Mr McWilliam said Clare had met her Australian boyfriend through skydiving and they lived in Melbourne.

"I think they actually met through the skydiving world. They have been together for a number of years," he said.

"He is obviously completely devastated. They were very close."

Early investigations indicate Clare was attempting a nine-way formation when it appears her main chute had become entangled with an emergency chute after she exited the aircraft at 14,000 feet (4267 metres).

Mr McWilliam said she had been with the skydive club for about two years and her death had shaken the club.

"She was extremely well liked. She's one of those very positive, very happy, strong, outgoing personalities," Mr McWilliam said.

"Everyone is just completely devastated."

In a statement issued by the Foreign Office in London, where Dr MacShane is minister for Europe, the family said: "Carol Barnes and Denis MacShane have lost their lovely and much-loved daughter, Clare, in a skydiving accident in Melbourne on Sunday.

"Clare was close to both her parents, to her brother, James and her half-sisters and half-brother who are united in grief at the loss of a beautiful young woman who made more friends in her short life than most manage over long decades.

"She died as she lived, living at the edge of experience in a sport that gave her immense pleasure.



A sad event indeed. My thoughts go out to those involved.

Regards,
Ops.

P.S. Guys, you may like to engage in pi$$ing contests about who is right and who is wrong, but don't forget life is just too d@mned short to be bitter all the time. Please work it out.

[maxgrad]

My deepest sympathy to family and friends.

OPS... another voice of reason in this ridiculous situation, although I must admit it was good reading up to just previous.

It is not nice to hear of any accident

[OpsNormal]

Max, sent you an email about a request you had last week.

Something to your liking should be in your work pidgeon hole. :}

[Lukeatme]

Please guy's this is not connected with the very tragic event that has happened, the safety concerns have been addressed in my opinion by jumping away from the airport.

I had been involved with the Geelong Club for many years and flew people (will never use the other derogetry term again) for jumping and do feel very sad of the loss of this Lady's life and can understand the Male friends tragic loss.

I am sorry also for the pilot as he must feel very down and I know it is not his fault either but the feeling of depression after an accident is great and quite a burden.

Please I am quite sincere in my comments and wish that this had not happened.

[QNIM]

Gday

Firstly I must express my sincere sympathy to the family and friends of the young woman who died last weekend.

I find it hard to believe that under these circumstances that two stories relating to the tragedy in today’s news papers one quoting APF manager of national safety Graeme Windsor and the other quoting APF safety officer inspector Neil Cheney with completely conflicting reasons why the tragedy occurred, the coroner will have a field day with them if the reporting is correct.
I have enclosed the links.

http://www.geelonginfo.com/readarticle.asp?articleid=10902

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/17/1079199297145.html


Q

[kerplunk]

Can't help yourself, can you QNIM?!
You're a very sad man and your "sincere sympathy" comes across as somewhat hollow!
I presume this is the first time in the aviation world that two different media outlets have interviewed two different people in two different states and they've come up with two different stories.
Must be hard being so fault free, yourself!

[the wizard of auz]

HMMMMM, seems I've been censored. Thats a change.
OK, seems I'm not allowed to post on this thread.
:\

[Lukeatme]

What no more grumbles ? is it working? all lost interest in safety? or more insidious the forum has been censored unless more newsworthy message appears??

[29351]

Maybe they're jack of it.......

[pol]

AUSTRALIAN PARACHUTE FEDERATION

P.O. BOX 144, DEAKIN WEST ACT 2600
Phone 02 6281 6830, fax 02 6285 3989
Email: [email protected] - Website: http://www.apf.asn.au/

INTERIM FATALITY REPORT

Date of Accident: l4 March 2004 Main: PD Sabre l20
Drop Zone: Barwon Heads, Vic Reserve: PD 126R
Sex: Female Harness/Container: Javelin JI
Experience 200 Jumps AAD fitted? Yes - CYPRESS expert
and "C" Licence RSL fitted? No
qualifications: Star Crest Jump Type: 9-way RW
Packer "B"
Age: 24 years; Cause of Death: Injuries sustained from
Time in sport: 2I/2 years impact.

BACKGROUND
The deceased was a current jumper taking part in a 9-way RW jump to celebrate her 200th jump. It was her second jump of the day, the previous descent having been performed with the same equipment and without incident. Information from her log books is that she had not previously experienced a
malfunction or cutaway.

THE JUMP
The jump proceeded normally and the participants commenced to track away at about 4000 ft. There is video footage of the RW phase but it does not keep the deceased in frame after break-off. The video until break-off showed nothing unusual with the jumper or her equipment. She demonstrates adequate freefall skills, height awareness and control throughout.

There was little visual recorded evidence following break-off. Two jumpers reported seeing what they believed to be either a pilot chute in tow, or a bag lock but were unsure of details. Ground based witnesses stated they saw the malfunction develop into some type of main/reserve entanglement that remained until impact. From the reports received investigators believe that the main deployment commenced as normal at about 3000 – 3500 ft.

Impact was feet first at high speed with both the main and reserve canopies out of their respective deployment bags but each incapable of inflating due to the excessive amount of entanglement of the lines and risers. The freebag and reserve bridle were observed to separate from equipment immediately prior to impact and were located approximately 9 metres from the deceased.

The cutaway and reserve handles were found some considerable distance away and downwind form the impact site leading to the conclusion that they had been activated (and dropped) at a normal height.

EQUIPMENT INSPECTION
The value of the evidence presented was greatly enhanced by the rigid adherence to APF scene preservation protocols by those first on the scene. The investigators were able to examine the equipment in the original state and remove the gear to a controlled environment.

Damage to the main pilot chute and the inverted position of the hockey-sack handle strongly indicate that the main, collapsible pilot chute was un-cocked at the time of deployment (see separate paragraph below). In this condition it would create insufficient drag and therefore be consistent with the reports of a pilot-chute in tow followed by bag lock, either of which could be experienced in this circumstance.

The Australian Parachute Federation exists to administer and represent Australian Sport Parachuting. We achieve this by promoting and maintaining a high level of safety and by
improving the standard of Sport Parachuting to encourage participation and experience in performance.

Additionally the kill-line which would normally be used during a pre-jump equipment check to confirm that the packed pilot-chute is cocked, was not the right length to show the tell-tale mark in the window on the bridle. Also, had it been properly cocked the mark was so faded as to be virtually unnoticeable.

The rig was also fitted with non- standard and incompatible risers to attach the main canopy to the harness. These risers were manufactured as Reverse 3-rings (see separate paragraph below).

Blue marks matching the main deployment bag were found on the reverse bridle and the two sets of lines were found irretrievably entangled and twisted.

The rubber bands used on the main deployment bag were mismatched, of varying age and condition, and one at least was an us\n suitable type being very large and strong. This band had been double wrapped around the line stow and, coupled with the low drag effect of the uncocked pilot-chute, was the probable cause of the bag lock. A segment of this rubber band was found still stowed around a line tight but broken away from the bag.

The Cypres automatic activation device (AAD) did fire but the nature of the cut loop, being unusually frayed at the cut, has led the investigators to believe that it was not cut while under tension from the main reserve. (A Javelin container, due to the positioning of the cutter, is one of the few rigs that will still result in a cut loop even after manual reserve deployment has occurred).

COLLAPSIBLE PILOT-CHUTES
Modern parachutes utilize a pilot-chute deployment device that “collapses” as the main parachute leaves its deployment bag and after the pilot-chute has done its job of pulling out the main parachute. This is to reduce the parasitic drag of the pilot-chute while flying under the fully deployed parachute. The collapse is effected by a kill-line running down the centre of the bridle which turns the pilot-chute inside out by pulling down the centre. The pilot-chute must be “cocked” by being pulled out at each repacked. The state of a collapsible pilot-chute cannot be directly checked after the parachute is packed but most rigs incorporate a small window on the pilot-chute bridle which should allow a view of a mark on the kill-line if the pilot-chute is properly cocked ready for the next jump.

REVERSE 3-RING RISERS
On a reverse 3-ring riser, the two rings attached to the riser are closest to the jumper’s body and when packed lie under the riser. In order for the risers to be released, either the pilot-chute or main canopy must exert enough drag to lift the riser rings away from the harness.

On a standard riser the two rings are built on the outside and can disengage more easily than on the reverse design.

The advantage of reverse risers is that hey are generally stronger (for the same sized webbing) since no hole needs to be punched through the riser for the locking loop to pass through to meet the cutaway release cable. The ring release problem is solved by attaching the main harness ring higher on the harness so the riser will come clear of the jumper’s shoulder.



PROBABLE SCENARIO
Following the pilot-chute in-tow/bag lock the deceased probably began normal emergency procedures consisting of pulling the cutaway handle followed by pulling the reserve handle.

Since these handles were found very close together it is reasonable to assume that they were thrown away or dropped from a similar height. Since they were located a considerable distance from the impact site it may also be assumed that they were pulled early (high) in the emergency sequence.

It is believed that the main/reserve entanglement resulted because the main failed to release when the cutaway handle was pulled. In a low drag situation (such as would occur with an uncocked pilot chute) it is reasonable to assume that the incompatible nature of the reserve risers would further contribute to the failure of the system to disengage the main canopy. If the deceased did not wait for main separation (or assist it by releasing the risers by hand) then the action of immediately pulling the reserve would have likely resulted in the entanglement. It would appear unlikely that the deceased delayed the reserve pull or tried manually to release the risers since if either had been attempted the cutaway and the reserve handles would need to be pulled separately and would have probably been found much further apart.

The descent speed was sufficient to trigger the Cyprus Expert AAD (which should have happened about 1000 ft) but the evidence strongly indicates that the reserve had already been deployed manually.

CONCLUSION
The poor packing discipline of using whatever line stow bands came to hand was the first link in this chain of events. Double stowing a very strong rubber band is never recommended and in this case almost certainly caused the bag lock.

The probable failure to cock the pilot-chute appears to be the second link in the chain. This could be caused by either inadequate packing discipline or a distraction while packing.

Since the kill-line mark would not show even under normal circumstances it is unlikely that this important check was part of the deceased’s pre-flight inspection. Failure to utilise this pre-flight check is the third link in the chain.

From here the initial problems were set in place, with the main parachute failing to deploy due to lack of drag from the pilot-chute which was unable to overcome the grip of the strong, double stowed rubber band.

The final equipment failure is the use of the non-standard reverse risers on a rig, which was not designed to use this style of release. Even a momentary hesitation in the release sequence would have been sufficient to entangle the reserve as it deployed.

It would appear that the lack of attention to equipment assembly, maintenance and packing may have all combined to produce this fatality. The fact that the deceased was a qualified Packer “B” entitled to pack main parachutes for students and other jumpers is a concern.

Individually, each link of this fatality chain has been repeatedly reported in published APF incident reports and if occurring in isolation may simply have led the jumper to dismiss the subsequent problem or malfunction as “just one of those things”. This fatality is an example of the classic “chain of events” when one failure leads to another, and so on to the tragic outcome. Perhaps even more tragically, if any one of the links in the chain had not occurred, the outcome may well have been different.

Safety officers should try to reinforce to all jumpers the lessons from this to try to prevent this kind of sequence recurring. This could be illustrated through the use of the “Reason Model” (available as an APF safety poster and from our web site) which illustrates how numerous safety layers concerning training and equipment can be put in place that can break such a chain of events.

Neil R. Cheney IA213,
Deputy ASO Victoria

HERALD SUN 17-3-2004


Natalie Sikora
and Cameron Smith

A MID-air kiss was the final goodbye for Melbourne skydiving couple Clare Barnes and Chris McDougall.
Just seconds later he watched in horror as his girlfriend of two years fell 420m to her death after her parachute malfunctioned over Barwon Heads.
The Kensington couple had just completed a nine-way formation and were free-falling when they exchanged a romantic kiss and flew away from each other to open their chutes.
“They had no idea the kiss would be their last,” Skydive City manager and co-owner Luke McWilliam said yesterday.
Ms Barnes, 24, the daughter of a British politician realised she was in trouble when her parachute malfunctioned and became entangled with her emergency chute.
Her 26-year-old boyfriend, a tandem master and world champion base jumper, could do nothing to help.
Mr McDougall, who works at Geelong-based Skydive City as a contract skydiver has made more than 5000 jumps, was yesterday trying to come to terms with Claire’s death.
“Chris is devastated,” said Mr McWilliam. “He was glad he was there and in particular that he kissed her goodbye, but nobody is happy about what has happened.”
“Some of the nine other jumpers were aware she was in distress and some weren’t, but her boyfriend realised she was in trouble and he landed with her, he was by her side.”
“She fought to free the main parachute from her and unfortunately it didn’t happen in time. She knew what was going to happen.”
Clare Barnes, daughter of Dennis MacShane, a British Foreign Office minister and Carol Barnes, a TV newsreader, met Mr McDougall through the skydiving world two years ago.
She planned to move to Australia to be with him.
Mr McWilliam said the nine-way formation was a special event designed to commemorate the talented skydiver’s 200th jump. He said she had jumped earlier in the day and repacked her own parachute, as do all experienced skydivers.
“She was in her normal happy, joyful mood,” Mr McWilliam said.
“She was probably the least experienced skydiver of the lot.”
An autopsy will be carried out today..
Last night her parents were due to fly to Melbourne with Claire’s brother James, 21, to make arrangements for her funeral.
In a statement issued through the Foreign Office, the family said: “She died as she lived, living at the edge of experience in a sport that gave her immense pleasure.”
A memorial service will be held at the centre, which has been closed as a mark of respect, some-time next week, Mr McWilliam said, The Civil Aviation Safety Authority and the Australian Parachute Federation are investigating the incident.
An Australian Parachute Federation safety officer returned to the scene yesterday where more equipment had been found.
Neil Cheney collected cutaway handles and the reserve ripcord from the Connewarre paddock where Clare landed.
“They will be very significant in the investigation,” he said. He told the Herald Sun the investigation had focused on Clare’s personal equipment because weather conditions were perfect for jumping.
:mad: Mr McWilliam yesterday defended his company against any wrongdoing and said it was unfair to blame the operation as being responsible for Claire’s death.
“It’s something beyond our control,” he said.
“We do everything possible to ensure people’s gear is well maintained and inspected before they go skydiving and that was the case here.”:mad:

Club Questions, Page 38.

Herald Sun 17/3/2004.

Makes you wonder

pol

[QNIM]

Gday pol
I am tempted to rest my case but not quite yet, wouldn't you agree Wiz?
Cheers Q

[the wizard of auz]

Not at all buddy, having been in the industry and knowing that the jumper is ulitmately responsible for their own gear.
and it certainly doesnt excuse you for your deleated post.
and as for my opinion of you, refere to my deleated post.
W:mad: R.

[QNIM]

Gday Wiz
Not my doing, best talk to Woomera.
Take a closer look at the press release from the principal.
"We do everything possible to ensure people’s gear is well maintained and inspected before they go skydiving and that was the case here.”
All I have tried to do is create a safer flying environment for all airspace users in the area, its ok for you some thousands of miles away to be critical of my methods.
Thank goodness its all coming together coz Im sick of having my life put at risk by these income dominated people.
Have a safe and peaceful easter.
Cheers Q

[rs480]

Hi QNIM

Try as I may I cannot understand why anyone would try to protect the Skydive City operator as the fallout from the BAD PUBLICITY (and rightly earned) must be a concern to the honest operators with the reputation of the industry being tarnished.
But then, he isn’t worried about anyone else.

Rs480:ok:

PS. I just got a peek at a DIRT DARTS logbook with dodgy entries (before it was forwarded to CASA) apparently signed at B.H. word is a couple of hundred will see you right.:ouch:

[Islander Jock]

PS. I just got a peek at a DIRT DARTS logbook with dodgy entries (before it was forwarded to CASA)

RS480,

Perhaps you would care to expand for the benefit of those of us here who have just a little more than fleeting experience with skydiving and the APF as to why someone's log book was being sent to CASA. Unless things have changed greatly over the past couple of years, any incidents, accidents or disciplinary matters are dealt with by the relevant State Council or national body of the APF.

Me thinks your comment is intended to little more than incite hostilities against BH. Signed by who at BH you say. Well guess what, any licensed skydiver on the load, the pilot of the aircraft or an instructor can sign a skydivers log.

[rs480]

Islander Jock


Who is carrying out the investigation into the operations at B.H. CASA not the APF.

Could be that CASA wanted the logbook to give it to the CORONER.

SIGNATURES ONLY the section for the rating or endorsement WAS BLANK.

Now do tell who signs for the packer “B” qualification any licensed skydiver on the load, the pilot of the aircraft or an instructor?

From what I read a few posts earlier Neil R. Cheney IA213 Deputy ASO Victoria seems more than a little concerned about qualifications and from the logbook I saw rightly so.

You may have a little more than fleeting experience with skydiving but no matter how much you and the the wizard of auz flap your gums it will not erase the problems these people have or the signatures from the page.


Rs480
:ok:

[the wizard of auz]

rs480, if you had of read my post before it was deleted, you would have seen I was not defending the said club, or for that matter anyone in it, I was defending the deceased ladies right for a bit of dignity. What your mate QNIM (you post just like him/her, could you be the same person???)had to say on the subject, was of little relevance and a disgusting use of an unfortunate accident and death of a person to try and justify his/her constant trivial dribble. I doubt very much either of you have a clue and I won't be decending to the level of ********, like you pair, to "flap my gums" about this subject with either of you.
I really hope you both get what is coming to you soon (and I believe it is coming) and I can assure you it won,t be a medal to pin on your pigeon like chest. :ok:

[GW_04]

Wiz,

I have a great deal of respect for your posts as most I have read have been well respected and often educational.
There fore I say well said in your last post.
I have made a few posts to the original topic here a while back but realised after a short time who we are really dealing with here. These two individuals are the random spinoffs in the aviation industry most of us hope never to meet.
It really does upset me to see them using this as a lever.

R.I.P girl. You were loving life to the fullest.

Hey D. My thoughts go to you buddy. Will catch you again soon I'm sure.:)

[QNIM]

Gday Wiz
Tish tish not another tantrum daaarrrling, are you looking for a spanking?
cheers Q :p

[the wizard of auz]

Dream on buddy. I doubt you could give one with those limp wrists anyway. ;)

[rs480]

How thick are you clowns?

There is every chance the woman would be alive now if: -

She had been trained properly
She had been advised of the incompatible gear in her rig
She had been supplied the suitable rubber bands
She had her equipment checked prior to the jump (which was supposed to have happened according to the operator)


READ THE APF ACCIDENT REPORT

THIS TRADGEDY COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED

Rs480

PS. Your right I wont be receiving a medal, as I will not be flying a drop aircraft.

[Islander Jock]

RS480,

You raise some valid points but from my experience there is nothing to suggest that the training or level of supervision she received woud be vastly different at another DZ. Using incompatable risers 8 years ago left me with a smashed ankle and 8 weeks in hospital but I do not blame the INSTRUCTOR who gave them to me, or the DZ for allowing it to happen. Rather I, like this poor lass, was an experienced skydiver and made a change to my system without properly assessing the risk or asking for advice. If this type of procedural fault can occur perhaps it identifies a fault with the APF licencing, and supervision requirements rather than with the individual DZs.
If it was known that the riser configuration was so dangerous then I'd suggest the APF would have issued a Rigging Advisory Circular (RAC) about it. I don't know if any such RAC was issued, do you?

wrt your points about rubber bands and checking. As a C license holder there was absoloutely no requirement for her packing to be supervised so no one either with or without authority on the DZ would necessarily noticed double stowing of the suspension lines. A gear check for a jumper is usually confined to to a reserve pin check prior to boarding the aircraft and the exit again, not necessarily by an instructor.

It is indeed sad that some people here are needlessly jumping on this tragedy to peddle their own agendas :mad:

[rs480]

Islander Jock

Just a few points

I agree with you if there is a problem with reverse risers and apparently that is the case the APF should have issued a Rigging Advisory Circular (RAC)

1/ The woman was reported to be a class “B” packer the APF RAC No 215rev C states mating of components from different manufactures may be made by a packer “A” and any question of strength, operation or compatibility must be resolved by a packer “A”.

One must ask was this the case here?

2/ AS for the rubber bands this is on the APF web site
by John Sherman
It has become apparent to me that despite the problems in the past with out-of-sequence openings among other things, that people haven't learned that rubber bands break for a reason. The U.S. Government spent a lot of money developing a specification for parachute stow bands. In my 35 years in the sport I have never found an acceptable substitute.
You might find a product which will work most of the time and which might seem to solve your breakage problem. But don't count on it working every time in every situation. If you think about it, you might ask why someone hasn't previously come up with a more durable product. It's such a simple matter, a stronger rubber band, and there are a lot of smart people who have come before us ...
I remember the “red” rubber band that was popular for a while in the 70's. They ended up melting and sticking to the grommets. I remember the Buna "N" "O" rings. They “spit” lines. I remember the Type 17 riser problem that was traced to a non-Mil. Spec stow band. If you haven’t had a bag lock due to one of these “unbreakable” stow bands – you probably will. I have witnessed three baglock/cutaways that are directly attributable to “bands that would not break.”
Consider this; parachute system designers develop components based upon the characteristics of the stow band. This is a fact. I know, as that is what I do for a living, and have been doing it for over 30 years. I strongly advise all parachutists to use only Mil Spec. rubber stow bands. To use anything else can and will compromise your system.
The really good aspect of all of this is that Mil. Spec. rubber bands cost considerably less than all of the new-fangled substitutes.

Who supplied the mismatched rubber bands of varying age and condition, with one at least being an unsuitable type being very large and strong?

3/ Why would the operator state the equipment was inspected if it was not required?

4/ Unfortunately sometimes it takes a tragedy to highlight the downfalls of ignoring safety and the following excerpt from the INTERIM FATALITY REPORT is wise advice.

Safety officers should try to reinforce to all jumpers the lessons from this to try to prevent this kind of sequence recurring. This could be illustrated through the use of the “Reason Model” (available as an APF safety poster and from our web site) which illustrates how numerous safety layers concerning training and equipment can be put in place that can break such a chain of events.

The only agenda is SAFETY

rs480

[Islander Jock]

RS480,
In reply to your post, the skydiver was a packer B and yes a packer A does rate equipment as airworthy. But for this to occur the packer A would have had to been made aware of the change to the system by the skydiver concerned. She, unfortunately appears not to have done this.

As for the rubber bands, as the DZ provides both tandem and sport jumps, both types of bands would have been available and of the correct spec. It would appear that she used the wrong type of band and as a packer B she would have been aware of the difference between the types.

In relation to the pre jump equipment inspection, as I said previously, this would be a pre jump pin check only.

You are quite right when you say that it takes a tragedy such as this to highlight any downfalls in safety however in this case it seems the jumper ignored the safety aspects, not the operator.

Finally, I have just had a detailed and lengthy discussion with the National Director of Safety who is very concerned regarding your assertion that:
PS. I just got a peek at a DIRT DARTS logbook with dodgy entries (before it was forwarded to CASA) apparently signed at B.H. word is a couple of hundred will see you right.
If you are truly concerned and not just tyring to stir more sh*t then he would be obliged if you will contact him directly. As you appear to have a good grasp on the APF website, you will have no trouble finding his details.

As an experienced pilot I think it would serve all of us (both skydivers and pilots) if you would address your alleged findings with the relevant authority concerned so that the matter can be cleared up without heresay and ambiguity, if your allegations are indeed correct.

[QNIM]

The Geelong Advertiser today.

Sky dive charges

The CASA investigation has ended in charges.


Wednesday, April 14
NATALIE STAAKS

SKYDIVE City operator Luke McWilliam has been charged by Australia's aviation watchdog with breaching safety regulations.

The operator of the Barwon Heads business faces 21 charges filed by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

The Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions has confirmed Mr McWilliam was due to appear in Geelong Magistrates' Court on May 14.

Mr McWilliam yesterday said he did not know the full extent of the charges but intended to fight them.

CASA has been investigating alleged safety breaches by SkyDive City for more than two years.

CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said the bulk of the charges, filed under the Civil Aviation Regulations 1988, related to dropping parachutists through clouds.

One charge related to having unauthorised equipment on board an aircraft.

Each proven charge attracts a fine of up to $2500.

Mr McWilliam said he welcomed the chance to defend his business operations in court.

``The investigation has gone on for three years. We did 2000 plane loads last year, that's 20,000 drops so we're talking about .01 per cent of our drops,'' he said of the 20 cloud-dropping charges.

``From our point of view it's closure, we can defend the charges openly now.

``I think we will be able to prove we've been very careful.''

South Barwon MP Michael Crutchfield has previously told Parliament of his concerns with the operation of SkyDive City.

Yesterday Mr Crutchfield said it was now a matter for the court.

``There is a procedure to go through and I think that everyone would hope for a resolution soon,'' he said.

[rs480]

Hey wiz

Looks like your statement

“I really hope you both get what is coming to you soon (and I believe it is coming) and I can assure you it won’t be a medal to pin on your pigeon like chest” was nearly right.

You only got the recipient and the timing wrong but CASA got it right.

Hi QNIM

You know what the last time I wanted to get rid of a wiz I just flushed.

Cheers
Rs480
:ok:

[QNIM]

Gday All
A little more balanced report from the Herald Sun

Skydiving firm faces charges
Milanda Rout
14apr04

THE skydiving company linked to the death of British parachutist Clare Barnes last month has been charged with more than 20 breaches of safety regulations.

The charges are not related to her death, but are the culmination of a separate 30-month inquiry into Skydive City by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

The charges have been issued by the federal Department of Public Prosecutions against club operator Luke McWilliam and relate to alleged violations of CASA regulations on parachute jumps.

A CASA spokesman said Mr McWilliam would face the charges at a preliminary hearing at Geelong Magistrates' Court on May 14.

He said the matter concerned alleged breaches of CASA regulations that specify how and when operators must conduct skydives.






It is believed some of the charges relate to the operator allegedly allowing parachutists to jump through clouds.

CASA raided the operator's Barwon airport base late last year, carrying out safety checks on light aircraft and seizing a number of items before taking formal action this month.

The charges come just a month after Ms Barnes, daughter of British Government minister Denis MacShane and English TV newsreader Carol Barnes, plunged to her death while skydiving with the club.

The Australian Parachute Federation's interim report into the accident found poor gear maintenance and incorrect packing of the parachutes were the likely cause of the 24-year-old's death.

The report said Ms Barnes was likely to have packed her equipment herself.

South Barwon MP Michael Crutchfield warned of the club's safety record in State Parliament 10 days before Ms Barnes' fatal accident.

He told Parliament that "someone is going to be killed" because of the long-term safety issues with the club.

Mr McWilliam yesterday said his solicitor had received the charges, but he had personally not seen them.

But he welcomed the charges, saying he wanted closure on the matter.

He said the investigation was politically motivated and that the allegations were not true.

And a little more the Today Tonight program channel 7 showed people dropping through cloud and the principle denying it had had occurded.
Can't wait for this to be heard in court
Cheers Q

[johhnyrelegate]

I saw the today tonight section regarding Skydive City, it was quite ammusing a buch of ****** private pilots whinging and a tosser skydive operator defending him self.

Cant we just leave this thred untill the court case...

If it took CASA 30 months to finally take Luke McWilliam to court it means that CASA are a bunch of useless pricks or Skydive city isnt really that bad compared with other DZ'S.... Who knows and cant we leave it till 14th of may with a new thread.. PLZ

[QNIM]

Gday Johnywhatever
Nup
Cheers Q :O

[the wizard of auz]

whatever rs480..............but I bet you had to squat to have that wiz. ;)

[johhnyrelegate]

ure a tosser QNIM

[rs480]

OH DEAR MORE PROBLEMS


GEELONG ADVERTISER

Thursday, April 15
NATALIE STAAKS

No city permit on day of fatal jump

SKYDIVE City did not have council permission to land in the Connewarre paddock British parachutist Clare Barnes was aiming for when she died.
The City of Greater Geelong yesterday confirmed Luke McWilliam and his company were required to have a planning permit to land on the privately-owned property at the corner of Charlemont and Barwon Heads roads.
A council spokesman said a planning permit was required for any area in the municipality that was to be used as a parachuting drop zone. He said failure to comply with this requirement could result in the City taking enforcement action through the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal or through the courts.
Mr McWilliam said he was aware of the council's requirement but did not believe it was correct.
He said SkyDive City had restricted jumping at the paddock and had moved to a recreation reserve in Collendina.
``They've suggested we need to get a permit,'' Mr McWilliam said. ``I must say that 90 per cent of parachutists land on rural land and they don't have a permit to do it because most councils think it's acceptable.
``The only places in Australia that parachutists do not land in an airfield is on a beach.''
SkyDive City was banned by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority in February from dropping parachutists within two miles of the Barwon Heads Airport.
Ms Barnes, the daughter of a government minister and television newsreader, plunged to her death last month a short distance away from the alternative drop zone after a parachute malfunction.
Investigators are still collecting evidence and an inquest into her death is still some months away.
Mr McWilliam was this week charged by CASA with 21 safety breaches relating to parachutists dropping through cloud last year. The charges are not related to the death.

Rs480

:D Hi wiz
I sure do
Rs480 ;)

[Lukeatme]

RS480

Hell I cannot believe this guy? he seems to be able to break any rule without a problem and state some bull**** answer that he does not think it is real or proper rule that applies to him,either he is a fool or his time is about to explode in a court of law. The cronies that follow him and defend these actions should also wake up and take a reality check before anyone else gets hurt.

As far as he is concerned he is living in the past eg: we have always landed on other land/everyone does well Lukey boy laws do change and if you cannot keep up to changes you will find out the hard way son, as you state about landing anywhere others know how to operate properly and do not have the problem as they do not try to stick it up authority.

[pol]

Hi Lukeatme

The operator can’t string a couple of sentences together without a lie.

Mcwilliam stated in the Geelong Advertiser 15 April.

“SkyDive City had restricted jumping at the paddock and had moved to a recreation reserve in Collendina”.

The word is it is private land owned by a couple of Doctors in Sydney.

Next sentence

“I must say that 90 per cent of parachutists land on rural land”

Next sentence

“The only places in Australia that parachutists do not land in an airfield is on a beach.''

What happened to the rural land?

I guess to read all the lies one would have to obtain the Gospel According to Skydiver LUKE.

Rs480
:ok:

[rs480]

Hi Lukeatme

Just arrived home from up north
I picked up the local rag at the airport and SURPRISE SURPRISE the DIRT DART operator has changed employment, he is now a demolition contractor.


Trouble building at Skydive City

Saturday, April 17
Geelong Advertiser
SKYDIVE City owner Luke McWilliam could face court action after failing to comply with a Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal order to remove several buildings from his property by yesterday.
The tribunal ordered Mr McWilliam at a February 19 hearing to remove all caravans, accommodation units and a toilet block from his land after the City of Greater Geelong council argued he did not have a permit for the buildings.
Mr McWilliam's eight weeks to remove the buildings expired yesterday, but all were still standing last night. A council spokesman said an inspection of the property would be made early next week.
``City staff will make an inspection of the property to ensure he has complied with the order to remove the illegal buildings,'' he said. ``If he hasn't then further action will be taken.''
But Mr McWilliam last night said a removalist had failed to pick up the buildings during the week and they would be removed by the end of the weekend.
``I'm not going to comment on this other than to say that the guy who was meant to pick them up didn't so I'm taking them down myself,'' he said.
``The power has already been disconnected and I'm in the process of pulling the rest apart now.''

HOPE HE HAS HIS WORK COVER PAID UP

Rs480
:ok:

[QNIM]

Gday rs480
Guess what they were still there this arvo, I think the council will be there first thing Monday morning with a Kato and the job will be done in half an hour and the principle will have pay the costs.
But isn't that what comes from ignoring regulations?
Have a great day
Cheers Q :O

[rs480]

Hi QNIM

Well he beat the Kato five removed two to go.

An irate TAX PAYER told me he and the cool contractor may have to try to beat the TAX MAN now, as word has it, it was a CASH JOB.

Rs480
:rolleyes:

[rs480]

wiz

No but feel free to if you wish.

I included the CASH JOB to again illustrate that no matter what this operator does he cannot do it within the law.

rs480:ouch:

[maxgrad]

Hey guys, keep it up
this is almost better than watching a good bit of biff on telly!
NOT!!

If you have an attack on someone take it to them and not spray it onto a forum that is more discussion and an informative media.

I am not a parachutist or jump pilot.
Don't know any of you lot but I must say that at least WIZ has the intestinal fortitude to stand by what he has said.

RS lukeand Qwhateva,
You have a go at Wiz for retaliating to your obvious childishness.
Look in a large mirror and them reset your individual bull$hitometer's.

If you have a problem with this operator take it to an appropriate authority and keep it there!

[Islander Jock]

oh dear, oh dear, oh dear,
This train has certainly come off the rails.

Woomera - you have control.

[rs480]

Hey Q

Cop on to this lot when the boot is on the other foot and they don’t have the answers they call for big daddy to stop it hurting.
I was sure the wiz said” its just a silly little game of name calling and baiting, played by little boys”.
Well lads if you can’t take it don’t give it.

Rs480
:D

[rs480]

I just read this on another thread MORE THREATS by the mentally unstable:8

the wizard of auz
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
posted 17th April 2004 12:09
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

in the interest of good taste I have deleated my previouse reply.
Q, if you want to carry this on, do it by PM.....otherwise, STFU.
I might just add that your not quite as anonymous as you think, so be veeeeeery careful...............Man!


[Last edited by the wizard of auz on 18th April 2004 at 02:13]

What an angry little ant I believe “pol” is right this guy needs help

rs480

[Islander Jock]

Ho hum, yawn,

RS,
My previous comment post to Woomer was simply to amplify the fact that the thread had turned into nothing more than a slanging match and had probably run it's course.

BTW RS, Any truth to the rumour throughout the BH community that you were the prat with the VHF handheld making the deceptive radio calls? Personally I couldn't care less. Live and work too far away to give a toss but a lot of people in your neck of the woods certainly seem to have your measure.
Now living in WA and working further afield than that, just how do you suppose that little snippet of information was leaked?
:p

[rs480]

Islander Jock

Not guilty

There are a lot of liars in this neck of the woods and had you seen the today tonight show on the skydive operation you would have witnessed the No1 liar stating we don’t jump thru cloud; the problem was they had footage of it happening.

The only deceptive calls I know about were made by the Skydive operator and I saw a copy of one report that had been submitted to CASA where he called a Cessna on late final to turn left as he had parachutes in the air.

The pilot believing there were skydivers she had not seen turned and as she put it if it had been a lesser plane than a 182 may very well have ended up in operators house.


rs

[maxgrad]

dives from one side to the other to return a feeble shot with little power.
isn't table tennis fun!

[Lukeatme]

MMM not much in the air today?

[kerplunk]

Is there any truth to the rumour that the genuine, safety conscious pilots are now complaining about parachutists jumping UNDERNEATH the cloud?!!! I hear that cloud base the other day was around 10 or 12 thousand feet, and the jumpers had plenty of cloud free sky, but somebody still saw fit to put in a CAIR report. It can't have been a mistake, because the agitators insist they do not make errors. Must be a safety issue then. No doubt, they'll enlighten us.

[Lukeatme]

Mate!! you are a real bright one, planes fly through this area all the time and half the reports that go in are never seen by people in this area as the pilots probably do not even know the background to the whole saga. When an unsafe act is around and you may be involved the only course to go is by the use of reports to the responsible department, this is the bloody problem down here and bright people like yourself comment on stuff that you do not even see.

As far as I am concerned the movement off the field to land at other positions has worked fine as I notice a hell of a lot of aviation again being performed, but this may have caused problems elsewhere but unknown to me and most certainly YOU.

[QNIM]

Gday
Has heaps of condemning stuff come out of the woodwork since the publicity.
Channel 7 are to be congratulated for a balanced and truthful report.
Cheers Q :ok:

[pol]

Kerplunk

Obviously you never saw the report on channel 7
THEY NEVER JUMP THRU CLOUD
So I guess it’s fair to say all CAIR reports submitted over the last 3 years must have been blatant attempts to defame the operation?

pol
:p

[pol]

maxgrad

Are you for real?
Do you honestly believe operating outside the law and a fatal accident (that could have been avoided) is childishness and any statement made by these guys is bull****.
From what I have read they have taken it to the authorities.
Like anyone else if you are not happy with what is posted on this forum DON”T READ IT.
Ever heard about freedom of choice?

pol

[kerplunk]

Why avoid a perfectly reasonable question?
No, I have not been there and I am not in the area. Yes, I did see the Today Tonight 'report'. I did not say they NEVER jump through cloud. But I did ask if those making the allegations are ALWAYS reasonable. Your responses have left me in no doubt!

[Lukeatme]

kerplunk

What a drop kick no one has avoided your question! you do not want to hear the real story! you have made your mind up because you do not want to know any other answer but what you have dreamed up, tell us where this crap came from? I think you are one of the type that starts a line then tries to convince himself that it is the fact. Well get the report and put it on here!

You see you are just running on rumors the evidence has been collected by a lot of average joe's that are sick of rules being bent/broken and safety compromised by an organisation/club? that only worries about his dollars and no one elses safety.

[pol]

Kerplunk

I have never avoided a reasonable question but yours doesn’t fall into that category.

As you say it is a rumor and it doesn’t take to many smarts to guess where it originated.

I am not aware of any complaints about parachutists jumping under cloud but as you are don’t hold back share all the details with us and NAME your source.

I am aware of false incident reports forwarded to CASA by the parachute operator and the fat old bald guy he employs, my source, a letter from Tony Rothwell CASA and the airport owner operator.

On a more personal note if you believe all the rumors you’re fed you must have the intellect of an ant.

I eagerly wait to read more of your foolish dribble as you attempt to justify your unfounded statements.


pol
:ouch:


Lukeatme

Spot on

pol
:ok:

[rs480]

Hey “Q”

Things are Soooo quiet

Looks like business has ground to a snails pace.

Obviously the punters have seen the light.

I hear CASA have been down again and by the way its off to court this month.

This bloke is going to get what he deserves, it’s a pity all that support him will miss out on their just deserts but that’s life.
rs

:ok:

[maxgrad]

POL
actually I am real
Fatality and safety are very real issues also, hence my statement that this needs to be kept with the authorities and not turned into a slanging match on a forum.
I understand that there is a huge amount of anger and emotion to this whole saga so I again state that this needs to be sorted by level heads ON BOTH SIDES.
Calling each other names does not come into this ideal.

I am a strong believer in freedom of speech but I am dead set against the personal attacks where people hide behind catchnames . If you have a problem with someone, have the intestinal fortitude to deal with them.
(OK might be hard in this setting so why don't you PM them and stop all this )

[QNIM]

Gday maxgrad
No one has received more insults and crap on these posts than I have, which I ignored till sometime in March. My reaction with the moderators reluctant approval was immediately removed along with a post from Wizard because of his name-calling and insulting dribble.
My only aim of these posts was to remove an extreme danger from mine and others work place, the personal insults came from those opposing my views and actions, please take the time to check back through both topics.
Have a nice day.
Cheers Q

[Getablackdogupya]

QNIM, good on ya for bringing this topic to the forefront.
There are a lot of pelican heads (big mouths small brains)out there who don't have a sniff on what is going on.
I have experienced it first hand on all fronts and I tell you I would be pleased for all in this area too see the back of this tool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

So QNIM keep punching.

[maxgrad]

GIDAY Q
have read all post and both topics
My statement stands
note the words "BOTH SIDES"

and no I don't know half the facts
I am responding to what has been posted

am having a great day
maxgrad

[pol]

Maxgrad

Now you have read all the posts on both topics I have two questions

How many posts are backed up with facts?

Who do you believe made the factual posts those pro the skydive operator or those pro SAFETY?

pol
:ok:

[maxgrad]

POL
Good try, but I am not going to wade in here and bore all with my views
why?

The facts as I know them are only from these forums.
Adding my views are only going to add fuel to the already overfed fire.

Don't get me wrong, I have definately a view on this matter but that is as far as it goes.

POL, happy hunting......elswhere;)