Mac Networking help

[Evo]

I've just got an eMac (with OSX Panther) for my wife, but i'm struggling to get it networked and connected to the internet. I've got an ADSL router doubling as a DHCP server, and everything else (two Win/XP PCs and an x86 linux box) self-configure quite happily. However, the Mac claims not to be able to configure networking - so i'm guessing it isn't talking DHCP. However, it's giving me no useful information to find out what's wrong!

Now i've never used a Mac before, and after clicking on everything technical looking (and there isn't much!) I found something that allowed me to force an IP address and Netmask. If i do this I still can't access the web or add a network printer, but the other computers can now ping the Mac on the IP address I've given it. Slight progress... but now i've run out of ideas. I'm a unix person at heart, my solution to network problems is with ping, tracert, route and the like. If these exist on OSX then i've got no idea where to find them. Command line would be nice (now all the Mac users are really laughing at me! :{ ).

So... where now?!? How do I get this fuggin' computer to tell me something useful? It's great in a "hey dude, chill out while i auto-apply a groovy filter to your jpegs... whoa man, check the colour balance now" kind of way, but it's hard to believe there's a proper operating system in there somewere... ;)

[The Nr Fairy]

Try

http://www.apple.com/support/panther/network/

[Evo]

Nr, maybe i'm missing something, but all I can find talks you through the obvious and ends with "if it still doesn't work, talk to your network administrator" - or words to that effect.

I know the network is fine (using it now from a PC) and I know the Mac is on it, because I can ping it. Just want to be able to work through the problem from the Mac...

[Mac the Knife]

I thought the big thing about Macs you just turned them on and they worked.......:E :E :E

[Evo]

So did I... :O :* :{

[goates]

I understood that Mac OSX has all of the usual Unix utilities, although I haven't used much myself. I do know for sure that it does have a terminal program to run command line apps. It's in the utilities folder, or at least that's where I saw it when I was playing with one on display.

Maybe this link (http://support.shaw.ca/troubleshooting/dhcpmacosx.htm) will help with the DHCP setup. I know setting up Mac OS 9 to use networking was painless.

goates

PS - Try going here (http://www.macfixit.com/index.php) and asking in the forum there.

[Evo]

Ah, goates, you've pointed me at ping! Thanks :ok:

[goates]

It's the machine that goes ping! :D

I hope you get it working. Good luck!

goates

[Saab Dastard]

Interesting that the Apple ICMP implementation does 3 pings, while Windoze does 4. I've come across some flavours of unix that don't show you the individual pings, just the summary and others that do 5.

God I'm sad :8

SD

[SLB]

I have encountered this problem occasionally when using hotel broadband connections - a PC works on DHCP when the Mac will not work on DHCP. I tried both OS X (10.3.x Panther) and OS 9.2.2, my older TiBook boots in either. Same results either way.
In OS X, setting System Preferences - Network to Show: Network Status (http://www.dataton.net/JFK/screenshots/Network_status.png) indicated a valid ethernet connection was in place but no IP address was assigned (so it self assigned one which does no good). It shows a yellow LED graphic in this instance, so it knows things are not right.
I was never able to figure out why the Mac wouldn't get along with the hotels DHCP server - but I was able to work around it.
I also travel with a D-Link DI-604 router (found it on special for $19 so I added it to my travel kit, the router, power supply and a cable all fit in an old DL business class CD pouch). The router will communciate with the hotel DHCP through its WAN connection and then seperately serve DHCP to its LAN. As the router DHCP server works OK with both Macs and PCs it solved the probem by acting as a bridge.

I would really like to know how to get the Mac to overcome this problem too, in the meantime I work around it.

[Evo]

After some more fiddling around i've got it working. Ping, as usual, is the key - that showed that I could ping the local network, but the gateway (aka router in Mac-speak?) wasn't set so i couldn't get outside. Fixed that, could ping by IP but not URL - DNS problems, again easily fixed. And, hurrah!, a networked Mac.

Well, kind of. I'd really prefer to use DHCP, everything else does, but it all goes wrong again if I turn DHCP back on - the machine decides to give itself an IP address in the Virginia Department of Health Class-B network :confused: and then refuses to talk to anything else (for obvious reasons). After a little more messing around i've come to the conclusion that DHCP just doesn't work on OSX in a heterogeneous network, so i've given up for now. I've certainly lost the belief that PC users have in the mythical self-configuring Mac. Maybe if you just have a network of Macs using Apple hardware then it is ok, but in my 'real world' network my Win2k Thinkpad does a far better job. Wired or wireless, it just works :ok: unlike the Mac :{

[Mac the Knife]

"...the conclusion that DHCP just doesn't work on OSX in a heterogeneous network..."

I'd be very surprised if it REALLY doesn't work. Chez moi I have a FreeSCO router dishing out DHCP addresses to 2 XPs, a Win98 and a SuSe Linux 9 boxen which all accept it without any fuss. Something ain't configured right somewhere. Can you establish who the browse master is?

[goates]

I'd have to agree with Mac, something isn't right. At home I have 2 Mac OS 9, 2 WinXP and a linux computer that all work off of a Linksys DHCP router setup. The only problems I've had with the Macs is 3rd party hardware going bad.

Have you tried going to a Mac forum for help?

goates

[Mad Monk]

I have found that Macs and ADSL just plug in and off you go.
Current home system is a G4 running Panther with ADSL via Virgin/BT and Netgear DG834. I raised the modem/router through a browser, it configured itself and everything in the garden was lovely, all in less than five minutes from opening the Netgear box.

ADSL into network at slavery, with 9 Macs running 9.2 and Jaguar, 4 PCs and WiFi was just as easy to set up.

I belive points to watch out for are the Encapsulation, which should be PPPoA not PPPoE here in the UK. Multiplexing should be VC-Based, not LLC-Based, with VCI set to 38. These should all come from the ISP.
It might be worth checking your firewall rules as well. Went on line one morning after a boozy night to find I had blocked Everything in and out !

For efficient usage check with your ISP on their MTU (Maximum Transmit Unit) size.

Hope this might help, apologies if not.

[Evo]

I'd be very surprised if it REALLY doesn't work.


Yeah, i expect it does work really :) but i've spent more time fiddling and I cannot get DHCP working.

With a static IP (192.168.0.44, with the router at .0.1) the Mac now networks perfectly. No LAN or Internet problems at all.

However, if I set the Mac to use DHCP it decides to use an IP address of 169.134.x.y :confused: There's also a DCHP with forced-IP option, and that doesn't work either - the IP is now correct (obviously, it doesn't have a choice) but the netmask is wrong and the gateway isn't set correctly. The DCHP server is issuing addresses in the range 192.168.0.4 to .0.24, and everything else I have plugged in works fine (and that includes Win2k, XP Home & Pro, SuSE 8 Linux and, on occasion, a Sun box running Solaris). If there's something wrong with the DHCP server then it's very subtle.

I haven't asked elsewhere - i'm not all that fussed, because I can just switch back to a static IP - but the geek in me doesn't like these mystery problems :)

[rustle]

EVO wrote:it decides to use an IP address of 169.134.x.y

That just means it cannot get an address from a DHCP server, so it is the "default" address - IP abhors a vacuum :rolleyes:

If you really want to know what's going on, run the network monitoring app in your W2K box and capture all the packets while the MAC boots and negotiates to get an IP address...

You should see some activity as it sends a broadcast packet onto the LAN looking for the DHCP server, then some activity as the DHCP server identfies the MAC address (of the MAC ;) )...

An example:

1 1.406250 rustle2 *BROADCAST DHCP Discover (xid=0F7B7DD3) 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 IP (Looking for DHCP server)
2 1.406250 rustle1 *BROADCAST DHCP Offer (xid=0F7B7DD3) rustle1 255.255.255.255 IP (Hello - I'm a DHCP server)
3 1.406250 rustle2 *BROADCAST DHCP Request (xid=0F7B7DD3) 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 IP (Can I have an address please?)
4 1.406250 rustle1 *BROADCAST DHCP ACK (xid=0F7B7DD3) rustle1 255.255.255.255 IP
5 1.421875 rustle2 *BROADCAST ARP_RARP ARP: Request, Target IP: 10.65.35.24

ETC...

(Names changed above to protect the innocent --> "rustle2" is the client, "rustle1" is the DHCP server)

If you really want to bottom this out PM me - I won't even mention Solent ;)

[Danny]

Not an expert but have networked a PC and my Mac through a router to ADSL.

Settings that work for me are as follows:

System Prefs/Network/TCP/IP: Configure IPv4: Using DHCP

System Prefs/Network/PPoE: Deselcted (using PPoA)

System Prefs/Network/Ethernet: Configure: Automatically

Just make sure you have created a 'Location' and have the network port configurations set to 'on'.

Use the 'Network Utility' (Should be in Applications/Utilities) to check all the ports and comms. 'Terminal' in same directory should let you telnet into Unix core.

Hope I'm not telling you how to suck eggs.
:bored:

[Evo]

At the risk of bringing a long-dead thread back to life, I wrote


...everything else I have plugged in works fine (and that includes Win2k, XP Home & Pro, SuSE 8 Linux and, on occasion, a Sun box running Solaris). If there's something wrong with the DHCP server then it's very subtle.


I've just plugged in a new router (also with DHCP built in) and the Mac now auto-configures perfectly. So I guess there was something subtle wrong with the DHCP server :confused:

[Ausatco]

Hmmmm .... Interesting. I had an almost identical problem with a Wintel lappy.

I have a D-Link DSL604+ ADSL modem/wireless (802.11b) router.

My PC connects via wired 10/100 LAN.

My lappy connects via a D-Link650+ PCMCIA 802.11b wireless card.

DHCP works perfectly.

I bought another lappy with Centrino 802.11g built in as a gift for someone. I wanted to set it up on my wireless LAN to update XP, install some security progs, etc before I gave it away. I could get the wireless link working (high signal strength was reported), but proper IPs would not be assigned. It needed 192.168.0.x, but ipconfig /all showed 168 or 169.x.x.x (Can't remember, I gave up on it a few weeks ago)

I tried disabling MAC address control on the router, re-enabling it with properly assigned MAC addresses and manually assigned IPs, etc, but ran out of time. At all times my 11b lappy worked, but not the new one. I ended up disabling the inbuilt wireless, installing a spare D-Link650+ and off it went with no problems.

A non tekky friend has bought the same lappy as I had problems with, and a D-Link DI624+ 802.11g wireless router and wants me to set it up for him. I am hoping that being 11g connecting with 11g (rather than the seemingly problematical 11g with 11b) it all works out of the box.

AA

[Saab Dastard]

I'm surprised that the 11g device doesn't auto-detect 11b and downgrade itself to the WAP speed. Is there a configuration / BIOS setting that you can change?

The signal strength is a tad misleading - 11b and g both use the same spectrum, so it's a bit like plugging an ethernet network cable in, seeing you have a link light at both the hub/switch and the PC, but wondering why you can't communicate when the hub is set to 10 Mb only and the PC is set to 100 only!

SD

[Evo]

I've run both an 11g card to an 11b WAP and vice-versa without problems; in both cases there were options you could set at the 11g end to tell it what it should do (setting "auto" worked fine).

[Ausatco]

Saab, Evo, Thanks for the replies.

I checked out all of that as much as I could in the time available, but drew a blank - I couldn't make the b u g g e r work.

I think you're right - the 11g machine should have dropped back to 11b. There was obviously a carrier (or whatever) there, hence the signal strength, and I too believe that it was just a wrong setting somewhere, but damned if I could find it and make the machines talk to each other, even though they had a connection. With a bit more time I think I could have - I certainly wanted to, but other priorites stepped in.

I wanted to pursue it for the technical exercise, but as I said, the machine in question was a gift, it had to depart, and it's now about 800km away, permanently - somewhat out of range of my network, methinks. And it won't be used on a wireless network, so the problem has solved itself. Sort of :O

I have heard of occasional equipment compatibility problems within a supposed "standard";). I'm wondering if this was an example, and am sincerely hoping that it is not repeated in my friend's new gear when I attempt to set it up for him.

AA