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VFE
8th Feb 2004, 19:29
Hi folks,

Been reading about Ukrainian artist Nathalia Edenmont who kills animals for use in her work. The animals are killed by herself and on first observation are supposed to look beautiful but I must say it eludes me. This appears to be exploitation at its very worst, an obscene and gross abuse of animals.

However, when one delves behind the reasoning for her work the "logic" becomes more apparent but is still rather questionable. The insight into the reality behind them gives rise to thoughts about people's shallowness and double standards regarding animals but my feelings are that in making an ironic statement such as this she is adding to the problem. A far better use of artistic imagination would be, for example, to find ways of exposing the problems of animal exploitation without the need for killing healthy animals but that's just my view.

Work such as this obviously leads to intense debate and I must apologise now for starting a thread that will no doubt devolve into chaos. But on the wider scale these things should be discussed and are exactly why the work was undertaken by the artist. It encapsulates the leather, fox hunting, meat eating and all manner of other animal debates. Please try to remain sensible when replying and think about the moderators here who have a tough enough job. Any personal attacking and unreasonable response and I'll pull the thead, fear not.

You can read the anti-animal abusers feelings regarding this matter here (http://www.moggies.co.uk/articles/dec2003/abuse.html) and her supporters in the art world's views here (http://www.wetterlinggallery.com/newsletter/newsletter.htm). After reading both debates please feel free to post your thoughts below.

VFE.

Pilgrim101
8th Feb 2004, 19:50
I suppose everyone needs a gimmick these days to stand out from the wannabes, especially in our "fifteen minute of fame" culture.

This obscenity sounds like yet another assault on what should be our aspirations to higher standards in everyday life.

That said, the media and by definition the greater public just adores s:mad: e like this. Yet another example of dumbing us all down to the lowest common denominator. I wish "they" would give us a chance to aspire to better things but a quick shot of prurient publicity seems to be all they can manage for us. No imagination I suppose ?

There's no substitute for original talent in "Art" though, but for example the lack of real contempt and outrage for that gross exhibition of plasticised human corpses by the so called Professor from Germany just exposes how much we have become innured to shock value and how every stunt has to be more "shocking" than the next before we respond. I understand from reports of a recent case in Germany that they're eating one another's genitals now for f:mad: s sake ! ( I suppose I might have to qualify that remark to my girlfriend when I get back home :E)

tony draper
8th Feb 2004, 19:50
Art like the rest of society has become shallow dumbed down and decedent, its a reserve of talentless con men and women.
I watch that arts review program on a friday night after newsnight,(its hilariously funny)some of the crap they are payed to look at and review is a cosmic joke.

Boss Raptor
8th Feb 2004, 19:59
Frankly that is sick and the woman should be sent for psychiatric assessment...how the term 'art' can be used to justify such scenarios/behaviour is beyond me

Onan the Clumsy
8th Feb 2004, 22:37
Art [is] a reserve of talentless con men and women. I quite agree. In fact I was talking to this Etruschian chap in the pub the other night and let me tell you, what he had to say about those "talentless stick scratchings" around the lip of the pots...

G-ALAN
8th Feb 2004, 23:14
Utterly disgusting! It's amazing the kind of crap passes for 'art'. I lothe anything labeled art which is not a painting or a sculpture of somekind.

TamedBill
8th Feb 2004, 23:19
This isn't art, it is care in the community gone wrong. The warped bitch should be put down herself so we don't have to suffer this attention seeking, self indulgent tosh. :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

seacue
9th Feb 2004, 02:42
Curious that no one has mentioned mounted moose / deer heads or the large fish that didn't get away. Is the woman in question just another taxidermist who has found a way to gain publicity?

Mac the Knife
9th Feb 2004, 03:03
From http://dogfightatbankstown.typepad.com/blog/2003/12/yes_but_is_it_a.html

"Sometimes what passes as art is, to me at least, nothing more than the machinations of an over-inflated and warped sense of one's self importance. Or a lame excuse for irresponsibility. Or simply the creation of a sick or criminal mind in need of medication. Perhaps incarceration. I am convinced that some artists are just having a joke at our expense. Some don't know the joke is on them. And some are just crying for help:"

Pathetic really.

seacue
9th Feb 2004, 06:09
Years ago Ph.D. - Dr. X. used to eat lunch at my table in the works cafeteria from time to time. He was a very advanced thinker, at least by his estimation. The subject of modern art came up. I eventually steered the discussion to the point that he claimed that a plain black-painted canvas was art, without any pattern nor variations in reflectivity.

He never again ate lunch with us. I thought I was just joshing him - he took it more seriously.

SC

airship
9th Feb 2004, 07:44
Quite distressing for moggie-lovers like myself. Otherwise, is it really any more shocking than walking around a natural history museum? Or having a stuffed carp over the fireplace?

However, I have a sneaky impression that Nathalia Edenmont is aware that the greatest artists have become so posthumously. So I would encourage her to carefully consider the subject of her next work. Her own head say, on the top of a 55 gallon oil drum. Imagine all the representations that could portray. Can anyone direct me to the art gallery selling her work? A special commission...:E

Send Clowns
9th Feb 2004, 09:46
Perhaps Nathalia Edenmont could become a work of art herself, alive but imprisoned. To give further meaning to a work which questions the definition of art then the public should not have access to her, she should be locked away in a hospital for the criminally insane. In a reference to the connections between the worlds of conceptual arts and literature, Kafka's work should be used as a pattern for the processes of incarceration.

Ms Edmont would doubtless see this whole process as a method of bringing her closer to her own work, seeing the internal significance of her pieces to their subjects.