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View Full Version : Do you believe in God?


Gerund
12th Jun 2001, 11:46
A simple question. Just yes, or no, please.

There is no catch here, I just want to survey how many pilots really do think there is a god. I will publish the results in detail later, together with personality analyses of the respondents.

For those who don't believe, the question is simple to answer - NO.

For those who do believe - well, I am sure we will get the usual faith rot, but please try just to put YES.

Why is this important?

Well, a good friend of mine won't fly with any Eastern airline. Too much risk of ending up with a pilot who believes in fate and the "will of Allah". Unfortunately, this is now becoming a problem in Europe these days.

When that all important in flight emergency happens, we want effective remedial action - not prayers to the almighty.

I firmly believe that any 'belief' in a supreme being should be an automatic disqualifier for flying duties.

Right, let's find out how many people out there shouldn't be flying.

Just YES, or NO.

Right, we now have enough to start a list. Let's see if we can see a trend. I will endeavour to keep this updated:

YES (shouldn't be flying): the_anti_christ/Jesus Loves You/ fireflybob/Jungle Strip/HugMonster/guyincognito/Jim lovell/ JudyTTexas/ Flying Lawyer/Loki / ROAR/ Send Clowns' Bird / SID the STAR / Ssshhh Noise Abatement / Iceolareanic / Britannia666 / Obi 'gorgeous pussy' Warrori / Superpilot (gets his kicks from his belief, and doesn't believe God has a son) / G-OODY

NO (laser mind in an emergency): compressor stall/saggy /Feeton Terrafirma /Flap Sup /mad_jock/
Send trainspotter and would like to mount Whirlybird Clowns /GoGirl /dingducky /Throtlemonkey /Natterjack/Slasher/Velvet/traveler/RW-1/legalapproach /Davaar /Whirlybird aka grumpy/Ed Winchester/Steepclimb/tony draper/!God! /The Grim Reaper/Angle of Attack /Tinstaafl /pigboat /Juliet November /Grainger /PingPong /gandelf /snaggletooth/GRpr /Blackshirt/Smaug /luddite /redsnail/Luke SkyToddler /Cessna Boy/Capt.Horatio Slappy!!/separator /Blacksheep/Le Pen/kabz/dv8/t'aint natural /LAZYB/ZS-BOK//Rollingthunder/Wee Weasley Welshman /Gog /Baggy /The Fokker's chocka ocker/ DanAirline/ BlueDiamond /Techman /Goldie /Capt Vegemite / Tony Draper / Legal Approach / 80days / no name / comjam

old_cross_bound (in a class of his own, as he should never be allowed in charge of even a model plane)


It will be noted by the pedants that I am including HATS (eg Whirlybird) in the listings. Although it grieves me to do so, believing in god is far worse for airline safety than being a woman. I intend to deal with the important issue of HATS and airline safety at a later date. Meanwhile ladies, please don't hold back.

gul (gone very quiet) dukat has been removed because he is an ATCO, not a pilot, and has therefore been dishonest. Why an ATCO should pretend to be a pilot is anybody's guess. Actually, we don't have to guess very hard. He has brought dishonour on his profession. He is also extremely unpleasant and rude. (If you want to tell him what you think of him, and his sort, you can find him on the thread 'ATC vs PILOTS'. This is an excellent opportunity to tell him, and them, what we really think, and how meaningless their life is. Don't hold back!)

[This message has been edited by Gerund (edited 27 June 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Gerund (edited 27 June 2001).]

the_anti_christ
12th Jun 2001, 13:00
What a silly question!

Of course I believe in the gods. Where would I be without them? I'd be without a job, thats where.


Do you like my little red heart? Pity it's fake :)

compressor stall
12th Jun 2001, 13:33
NO

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Those who restrain desire do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained.
William Blake

saggy
12th Jun 2001, 14:40
NO

But if my Mum asks you it's YES!

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-------------------------
G-XX Finals and ...hopefully land! :)

Feeton Terrafirma
12th Jun 2001, 14:43
NO

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I'm not a PPRuNe addict. (just need one more post)

Jesus Loves You
12th Jun 2001, 14:50
Of course.



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Bless you.

Capt Vegemite
12th Jun 2001, 14:52
well ok (http://sites.netscape.net/threeringheathen/moses.jpg)

[This message has been edited by Capt Vegemite (edited 12 June 2001).]

gul dukat
12th Jun 2001, 14:59
NO .......please don't let old cross bollocks see this thread!!

fireflybob
12th Jun 2001, 15:22
Yes - and I believe God loves everyone - even those who do not believe.

>When that all important in flight emergency happens, we want effective remedial action - not prayers to the almighty.<

Why not both?

Christian faith does not say that we should not take "appropriate action" (in fact, it advises that Christians may well have a hard time!) but what is wrong with praying that when, in the future, we are faced with difficulties God will give us the skill and application to deal with whatever faces us.

Personally I have difficulty understanding how anyone can go flying and NOT have some sort of faith in a "higher being".



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Flap Sup
12th Jun 2001, 15:35
How about asking Danny to set up a forum called "Religion and Politics", we could even have OCB and TG as moderators. JB would be back to normal, containing only sex and jokes.

IMHO personal beliefs shouldnt interfere with your flying.
rgds FS

Gerund
12th Jun 2001, 15:40
Flap Sup -

Quite so. We will take that as a NO

Feeton Terrafirma
12th Jun 2001, 15:51
fireflybob

As a member of the SLF community I believe in several "higher beings". First there is the guy at Boeing who understands bending moments better than me. Then there is his mate, also at Boeing, who can explain Reynolds Number without looking at a text book. And then there is the almost forgotten lame, who can keep the thing from falling apart after 1.63 million cycles. Lastly there is the jet jockey, who I trust (along with the rest of these guys) with my LIFE.

They had better be better at what they do than I am at what they do!


Apologies to everyone I didn't specifically name here, but you get the drift.

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I'm not a PPRuNe addict. (just need one more post)

mad_jock
12th Jun 2001, 15:56
But yet again who would read it?

And No i don't believe, the laws of physics will always work.

And i do think that people on the flight deck shouldn't have a over powering belief.

If it gets to strong they can justify all sorts of acts in the belief that it is good and correct. In fact i am suprised that one of the middle east lot haven't taken a 747 and smacked it into a large US city yet.

As most of gods men in Scotland are currently getting done for kiddie tickling or shagging married women it should hopefully die a death soon.

MJ

Reynolds number is easy, its Naver-Stokes which is a complete bollouxs to learn.

[This message has been edited by mad_jock (edited 12 June 2001).]

GoGirl
12th Jun 2001, 16:16
NO

GG

dingducky
12th Jun 2001, 16:39
NO

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A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.

Throtlemonkey
12th Jun 2001, 16:46
NO

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Jesus Loves You
Everyone Else Thinks Your A ******

Flap Sup
12th Jun 2001, 16:56
Gerunt: I've had religious experiences ("Oh, yes, God, I'm coming, ahhh"), but I don't see the what my religious conviction has to do with my flying.
Should all psgrs check the religious background of the pilots before each flt? "Oh, no, Im not flying with a jew/Moslim/Hara farkin Krishna pilot". Imagine the mess.
On a more personal note, I dont like it either when I hear the SyrianAir captain saying "we will land in Halab in 10 mins, Inshallah" [red.: meant to put Inshallah in bold, but dont know how]
rgds FS

[This message has been edited by Flap Sup (edited 12 June 2001).]

Jungle Strip
12th Jun 2001, 16:58
Depends who's asking.

If it's you Gerund, the answer is YesYesYesYesYes...

Sorry. What was the question again?

Natterjack
12th Jun 2001, 17:46
It's not my intention to start a riot or indeed any form of anger between those who believe in God and those who don't, but I am curious as to why God allows the following to occur if he or she is real:

1. Long-term suffering for those at a disadvantage in terms of poverty (though wealth, eduction, desease or such like), primarily but not exclusively in poverty-stricken countries.

2. Natural disasters which claim thousands of lives thoughout the world each year.

3. Suffering to animals.

4. Death.

I am a little ignorant of Christianity, but I would have thought that, if God did exist, then suffering would be minimalised (for both humans and animals) and death wouldn't occur.

[This message has been edited by Natterjack (edited 12 June 2001).]

Slasher
12th Jun 2001, 18:02
Jesus H. christ not another bloodey religious thread!

Velvet
12th Jun 2001, 18:10
Yes


Nats God is not reliant on the Christian belief structure, nor does death prove the matter either way.



[This message has been edited by Velvet (edited 12 June 2001).]

Gerund
12th Jun 2001, 18:17
Velvet, yes I suppose broomsticks count. But that would make you a HAT! ....You can't get inflight entertainment on a broomstick... Ah! You don't fly sidesaddle. OK.

I have put you in the NO category, because I am sure this is what you meant to say. Drinking again? tut tut

[This message has been edited by Gerund (edited 12 June 2001).]

Natterjack
12th Jun 2001, 18:26
Ah, ok Velvet. I'm NOT religious in the slightest, although Zoroastrianism is seeming an increasing worthwhile religion :) hmm

------------------
I spend most of my money on beer and women; the rest I just waste.

Work like you don't need the money, dance like nobody's watching, and **** like you're being filmed

Jesus Loves You
12th Jun 2001, 18:37
Why are there so many non-belivers?

- enjoy God, enjoy the church, enjoy life.



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Bless you.

Flap Sup
12th Jun 2001, 18:43
I prefer the religion named "Mobutoism", named after the former dictator of the country formerly known as Zaire (Seseseko Mobuto).
Its like a reverse Robin Hood deal; Take money from everyone, rich or poor, and keep it for your self.
Mobuto was a real aircraft connesseur, he leased a Concorde once in a while to go shopping!!
rgds FS

Velvet
12th Jun 2001, 18:54
Gerund, I see I'm going to have to take my besom to you again. Inflight entertainment, you haven't seen my cat balance on the twigs. Of course it's sidesaddle, how else would I get the ripple effect.


If I meant NO, I would frigging say NO

Strange how most men think no means yes, whereas you................

traveler
12th Jun 2001, 20:39
No

Send Clowns
12th Jun 2001, 20:46
You've already guessed for me, mate, but I confirm you are correct to put me in the 'No's

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'Me here at last on the ground, you in mid air'

Flap Sup
12th Jun 2001, 21:05
Oops. "Mobutoism" is a lifephilosophy, it dosn't count as a religion. When does a philosophy count as religion anyway?? If you belive in something and live by it, isnt that religion (no, Slasher - "nailing anything with a pulse" isnt a religion)
This coud be the topic of an interesting discussion, so I'll keep it out of JetBlast.
rgds FS

RW-1
12th Jun 2001, 21:13
Only when it is convienant.

Do I believe in a higher power, a force above all ?

Possibly.

------------------
Marc

Legalapproach
12th Jun 2001, 21:47
Not necessarily, but then;

God created Satan so that there was someone else to blame.
Then God created Lawyers so that Satan didn't take all the blame.

Gerund
12th Jun 2001, 22:03
Lawyers!! I've put you in the NO section.

If I make a mistake with anyone, please let me know and I will rectify it immediately.

Ed Winchester
12th Jun 2001, 22:21
NO

Loki
13th Jun 2001, 01:38
If I believed in God ,or if I didn`t,would it make any difference?

Discuss


Actually, I do believe in something like that but it`s intensely personal.

[This message has been edited by Loki (edited 12 June 2001).]

Steepclimb
13th Jun 2001, 02:15
NO
I used to and am scared I'm wrong.
I'll find out soon anyway, or not as the case may be. There is something horrible about there being nothing after death, intuitively it must be so. So all we can do is leave a good memory of ourselves when we go.
Too late for me I'm afraid, pity really. If I believed in God I wouldn't even consider what I will do soon.
I want there to be a God but there isn't. We all want that. It's like going under anesthetic, blink gone. It's just a question of finding the easy way.

tony draper
13th Jun 2001, 02:54
The best plan is to live a life of complete debauchery,if I understand this right the trick is to repent five seconds before you pop your clogs, if there is,then you go to the front of the queue, if not then bollox.

NO.

Don't know how to do that thick black typing. :)

!God!
13th Jun 2001, 04:10
Hmmm...

Do you believe in magic?

edited because I wanted to.

[This message has been edited by !God! (edited 13 June 2001).]

The Grim Reaper
13th Jun 2001, 04:33
Believe what you want....Only DEATH is certain.


:)

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Death to Accountants :D

The Grim Reaper
13th Jun 2001, 04:47
Oh, and !GOD!....don't think that I've forgotten YOU. I got your son and you're next.

!God!
13th Jun 2001, 05:03
Grim.. and taxes, and despair and joy and love and hate(strong dislike)... and hope.
Easy job you have there, son. Exactly when do you get promoted?

Angle of Attack
13th Jun 2001, 05:42
No way, why be scared if your wrong, at least you won't get cold in hell. Nice and warm in there.

Tinstaafl
13th Jun 2001, 05:55
NO

Don't believe in ghosts, gouls or goblins either.

pigboat
13th Jun 2001, 07:01
I think the ancient Egyptians had it right, so I worship the sun. Dick all to accept on faith, it's there for me every day. Gives me light, heat, helps grow my food, melts all the farkin' snow in my driveway and gives me a nice pre cancerous glow. Best of all, no one wakes me up at 7:30 on Saturday morning looking for money and I don't have to get all dressed up to show respect. Quite the contrary. Also, my prayers have been answered with the same frequency as with my previous deity.
The down side is, if I indulge in too much worship, I could wind up with an incurable malady. But what the hell, nothing's perfect.
Well, maybe Sophie Dahls' a**, but that's for another thread. :)

guyincognito
13th Jun 2001, 08:23
Yes.

A more interesting study would be to look at the great pilots of history and see if they believed in God. That would test your theory.

Jim lovell
13th Jun 2001, 08:23
yep

Juliet November
13th Jun 2001, 08:52
NO

Grainger
13th Jun 2001, 12:14
Nope

Whirlybird
13th Jun 2001, 12:31
Well Gerund sweetie, having just found this thread and seen that my name is mentioned in your first post, how can I not respond. I had NO idea I'd made such an impression on you that you thought of me instantly even when posting on a life and death matter like this one. I'm flattered :rolleyes:

Right Gerund, I'm a Buddhist. Now since I KNOW you have no idea what that means, let me explain in VERY simple terms. My teacher used to say that Buddhism was like Moravian Christianity - there was no God until you found him for yourself. She (oh yes, it was a she - there are female Zen masters too) said many other things I know you'd LOVE to hear - but later honeybunch, later...

As for religion and flying - trust in God and pass the ammunition.

And put me in whichever camp you like.

------------------
Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

[This message has been edited by Whirlybird (edited 13 June 2001).]

Gerund
13th Jun 2001, 13:11
Lovely to hear from you Whirly.

Do your engines need to be running when you hover? Just wondering.

Oh, and I have; thought you'd approve!

Velvet
13th Jun 2001, 13:47
Gerund

My broomstick agrees with you, it doesn't quite know how we fly either. However, a total belief in some kind of higher power helps.

Whirlybird
13th Jun 2001, 13:57
A levitating hover http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif Wow!!!! Now maybe I should try that next time an instructor thinks I need some engine failure in the hover practice.

On second thoughts...

------------------
Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

PingPong
13th Jun 2001, 14:10
Of course not, NO

gandelf
13th Jun 2001, 14:32
I`m still looking for the black cat in a dark room that isn`t there, but some people find it !!

fireflybob
13th Jun 2001, 15:47
!God!

"Do you believe in magic?"

There aren't many magicians that can bring themselves back from death!

Suggest a read of "Who Moved The Stone" by Frank Morison

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snaggletooth
13th Jun 2001, 17:46
Nope

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Lend me £10, I'll buy you a drink & Mother wake me early in the morning...

GRpr
13th Jun 2001, 17:46
NO - unless he's a large rabbit

HugMonster
13th Jun 2001, 21:35
He's not - that was Harvey :)

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Breeding Per Dementia Unto Something Jolly Big, Toodle-pip

Roofus
13th Jun 2001, 22:09
NO.

Bio Warrior
13th Jun 2001, 22:16
YES sweetie I do and can I maybe point out that people who believe in God tend to want to keep those around them alive and not just look out for themselves.... not such a bad thing in anyone who is responsible for getting hundreds of strangers from point A to point B in a hollow metal tube. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

thats all ciao

Blackshirt
13th Jun 2001, 22:31
NO

but these people surely do:-

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

[This message has been edited by Blackshirt (edited 13 June 2001).]

Gerund
13th Jun 2001, 22:50
Bio Warrior -

Yes, yes, yawn. Just like the Inquisitors and the Crusaders and ...

Look, even I have been drawn into a discussion on nonsense.

For your disgraceful, groundless, partisan views I am going to spell your name incorrectly; and let that be a lesson to you.

[This message has been edited by Gerund (edited 13 June 2001).]

luddite
13th Jun 2001, 23:15
NO. Most definitely - no. Higher power? Not convinced.....

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Loud and proud
May the noise be with you!

redsnail
13th Jun 2001, 23:31
No

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reddo...feral animal!

Luke SkyToddler
13th Jun 2001, 23:38
NO

Gerund
13th Jun 2001, 23:50
I am sorry to divert for a moment, but am I the only person who finds redsnail's 'signature' strangely erotic?

[This message has been edited by Gerund (edited 13 June 2001).]

Send Clowns
14th Jun 2001, 00:20
Blackshirt, that is a fantastic website. Some of the best satire I've seen in ages :) Want a 'To sin press here' T-shirt!

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'Me here at last on the ground, you in mid air'

Cessna Boy
14th Jun 2001, 01:59
Until He proves me wrong! "NO".

Bio Warrior
14th Jun 2001, 03:20
Sorry G didn't mean to bore you *smiles* you asked if we beieved in God not if we were religious. Besides the crusades etc were developed by men who seemed to think they were God .... Religion is just another excuse for people who want power to get it... Ugh I better get down off my soap box now :rollseyes:

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Belief is nine tenths of understanding

JudyTTexas
14th Jun 2001, 05:34
Yes I believe in God...but not religion. It's hard to deny from personal experience...and it does go beyond what any church could ever teach.

Capt. Horatio Slappy !!
14th Jun 2001, 07:12
NO

Capt Vegemite
14th Jun 2001, 08:06
Hey Judy! in God We Trust

All you other bums its cash!

separator
14th Jun 2001, 09:03
NO

And before you get stroppy, Gerund, I have been a pilot since 1978 and flying commercially since 1980 as well as ATC.

sep

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Say again, Approach....you want us to do what???

Blacksheep
14th Jun 2001, 09:04
I believe that God wrote the laws of physics and left us to work out the answer for ourselves. So far no-one seems to have got the right answer, but thats no excuse for not trying...

**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

Gerund
14th Jun 2001, 10:54
Bia Wirrior -

You obviously need another lesson. If I wasn't saving it for someone else, I would also give you a damn good thrashing - but I am promised elsewhere.

[This message has been edited by Gerund (edited 14 June 2001).]

t'aint natural
14th Jun 2001, 20:03
No

Le Pen
14th Jun 2001, 22:23
Sorry Bio........


No.

The only thing that i believe in is ME!!! I dont need faith in anyone or anything else to make sure my aeroplane gets from A to B.

I need to have confidence in my own work... 'cos if I stuff it up nothing is gonna save you..

Anyway

love you all

Le Pen

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Nil Fault Found.....Another great work of fiction in progress

kabz
14th Jun 2001, 22:36
Course I do. I AM God.

Sorry, NO.

But look at the evidence. Does http://www.god.com/ work ? No! Omnipotent my sweet bippy. Not even a web-site.


[This message has been edited by kabz (edited 14 June 2001).]

dv8
14th Jun 2001, 22:50
No but dont let God Know


-----------
dv8http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/cool6.gif

Whirlybird
14th Jun 2001, 23:03
Oooo Gerund, I'm now known as Grumpy am I? By who? Only you, cos I got mad at you calling me a HAT. I think I was entirely justified. What do the rest of you think? Right, two questions for you to answer now. I'm sure Gerund will keep score. Can you manage that OK Gerund?

Though come to think of it, I'm quite flattered. And I think the name rather suits me. Mmmmmm...think I still prefer being Whirly though.

------------------
Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

Bio Warrior
14th Jun 2001, 23:07
G' sweetie while I'm used to dirty old men saying they want to spank me, did your mother never teach you not to hit girls? (Incidently I'm not that kind of girl :rolleyes: )
Sad to say misspelling my name has no effect on me honey people have been doing it for years and it simply shows your lack of schooling in the basics *bright smile* (just teasing Gerund I bet you are smart deep down)

Pen dearest no offence taken, I believe in God cos He believes in me ... and has an awful nice habit of keeping me alive despite my constant attemps to be otherwise... it's a great relationship. :)
That doesn't mean I freeze up in situations the best prayer in the world is "help" takes just as much breath as other 4 letter words

Gerund just remember you started this thread, thankyou so much I'm enjoying the banter http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

>hugs to you all<
Bio

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Belief is nine tenths of understanding

[This message has been edited by Bio Warrior (edited 14 June 2001).]

Flying Lawyer
14th Jun 2001, 23:14
Yes.

Gerund
14th Jun 2001, 23:15
Ibo Warrori -

You really shouldn't hang out with dirty old men.

Loki
14th Jun 2001, 23:22
Surely, the question is more important than the answer.

tony draper
14th Jun 2001, 23:31
I think once gravity slows down the expansion of the universe and it starts to collapse in on itself again heading for the next big bang, times arrow will reverse, and we'll have to do it all over again, backwards.
should be interesting. :)

Bio Warrior
15th Jun 2001, 00:28
But Gerund honey I like talking with you... The dirty old men are the best to razz (as long as you're on the other side of the globe from them.) Besides I live in excited anticipation of the day when you work out how to spell my ID, if it's easier for you just call me Bio ;)As for belief in God dear (point of the thread I just remembered)does it help not to believe in a mountain youre flying into?

The truth is out there and either way we all run into it eventually.

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Belief is nine tenths of understanding

ROAR
15th Jun 2001, 02:22
YES

I put down my answer, although not working on flightdeck....



[This message has been edited by ROAR (edited 14 June 2001).]

LAZYB
15th Jun 2001, 03:06
NO, but..."Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." -- W.C. Fields

and...

"...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol."

(Fields, on reading the Bible :)
"I admit I scanned it once, searching for some movie plots..." (but found) "only a pack of wild lies."


I want to die in my sleep peacefully like my grandfather, not screaming and in terror like his passengers.
Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

And the always popular...

Please note - If you do not have the same beliefs as we do, you are going to burn in Hell forever.


[This message has been edited by LAZYB (edited 14 June 2001).]

ZS-BOK
15th Jun 2001, 15:43
a higher power mabey, but not religion
and the church, so I guess NO

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Rather down here wishing I was up there, than up there wishing I was down here!

Prince Of Darkness
16th Jun 2001, 04:24
I believe in God.........BUT ONLY WHEN I'M CUMMING!!!

old_cross_bound
16th Jun 2001, 08:05
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">For those who do believe - well, I am sure we will get the usual faith rot, but please try just to put YES.</font>

***A biased, presupposed position, obviously not worthy of objective analysis. No comment!

ocb :)

tony draper
16th Jun 2001, 11:20
As a follower of the left hand path Draper pays homage to the Horned One.
Alas, the shortage of virgins in the North East of England makes our ceremonies dull nowadays,of course one still derives pleasure
from dispatching one of the Four Horsemen to collect the odd enemy, or summoning one of the Abhumans from the outer circle, and have it gnaw on the soul of those who argue with one. :)

Flap Sup
16th Jun 2001, 16:56
Happy, happy, joy, joy

This thread has brought ocb back. What other improvements can we make to JB? Ban jokes and talk about sex??

FS

Gerund
16th Jun 2001, 17:44
Flap Sup -

Well thanks for nothing! Does the name Velvet mean anything to you? No? Well, have a look at the title of posts in the last couple of days. I think you will spot the guilty party.

Really, ocb understands this thread for what it is, ie a sensible survey on an important topic, and has entered into the spirit of things. A bit surprising that he doesn't believe in god, but there you go. I think he has been taking the piss out of all the old Pprune hands for a long time now. Well done ocb, you really got them going.

Rollingthunder
16th Jun 2001, 17:46
Flying Lawyer says YES.
He must have the evidence.

Gerund
16th Jun 2001, 17:49
Rollingthunder -

Shows how little you know about lawyers!

Legalapproach
16th Jun 2001, 18:04
What's the problem? Most Lawyers believe in themselves.

Flap Sup
16th Jun 2001, 18:08
Gerund -

You're right. Its not only this thread. I might as well have posted on Velvets thread, but how can anyone blame her for anything.

Back to the topic. I only read JB in order to be amused. When interested in flight technicalities and rumours, I read the rest of prune. However when in the mood for discussing my deeper thoughts, beliefs, philosophies or worries I take it up with gf, friends or family.
When going into deep discussions about religion and armageddon (which seems to be ocbs favorite), I am deprived of some of the joy I otherwise would find here in JB. You might say I should just stay away from threads started by ocb (which I do), but he seems to sneak into perfectly harmless thread about sex as well.

What about the freedom of speech, you might ask, ocb - I know, I know. You have the right to publish you oppinion as anyone else. I just find that this is not the right forum for it. Yes, we are sinners. Yes, we may be damned. But let us be damned while we are having fun!

//rant off//

Gerund, I meant no offence against you - I kinda like the hotheaded replies you give "hats"/acto and others.

Brgds FS

Gog
16th Jun 2001, 18:09
No

Baggy
17th Jun 2001, 01:19
If it helps the thread any, as a lawyer I believe in something - not necessarily myself - but I'm not sure that God can take credit for it either.

I guess it comes from a need to believe that we're not in control (imagine that, a woman in control of more than a car http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif ) and that someone somewhere has a grand plan....

Oh yes, and when I feel that I have no control what so ever in what's going on, it gives me someone else to blame!!! (or thank)

The Fokker's chocka ocker
17th Jun 2001, 01:25
Imagine having the temerity and gall to think you have universal significance greater than a speck of amoeba poo!

Most of us here appreciate multi-dimensional thinking. Think about the utter enormity of the universe as we know it, and how we,
(all of us in toto), pale in complete insignificance, compared.

So here we are, dumb f*&lt;k human beings, thinking we're the divinely chosen children of a great and loving creator-benefactor.
How naive of us!

Ever notice that those who hold this belief dearest, are the same people who are constantly at war with others who share it?

This blind faith can be understood of a simple-minded people of a couple of thousand years ago, looking for a crutch in a pitiful, and seemingly pointless existance.
Subscribe to a belief system and cure all ills.
How come it's not working?

Blind faith is just that when we are blind to the fact that all the prayers, ceremony and ritual worship by many billions over thousands of years still adds up to zilch. Zippo.
We still have untold pointless misery and utter despair being visited upon millions of people every day. Every day.

I may be struck down for this, but think it's a fair question... who wants a "god" who's such a c*nt?
Should i be struck down though, there'll be proof.
Now i'm just plain asking for it!

You'll note, it's a long-winded NO for me gerund, but one can't expect a one-word opinion.

In closing, we can expect to just as likely turn out to be the experimental progeny of what we call, an alien race.
It's no more outlandish than anything proffered by the faithful.
And there's more proof!


[This message has been edited by The Fokker's chocka ocker (edited 16 June 2001).]

DanAirline
17th Jun 2001, 02:26
NO

Capt Vegemite
17th Jun 2001, 03:58
Gerunds function as nouns. Thus, gerunds will be subjects, subject complements, direct objects, indirect objects, and objects of prepositions. Present participles, on the other hand, complete progressive verbs or act as modifiers.
Obviously not subjects of God.

BlueDiamond
17th Jun 2001, 06:20
I'm curious - how do you propose to construct an accurate personality analysis based on a limited-choice answer to a single question?

Do I believe in God? Yes - if she really exists.

Techman
17th Jun 2001, 07:36
Since I only expect to live once, NO not really.

Goldie
17th Jun 2001, 07:52
GOD NO
THE DEVIL YES

-
--The devil made me do it-----------------------------------------

Velvet
19th Jun 2001, 22:45
Tony Draper you have much to answer for, I've received the following email from Gerund.

"Dear Velvet, draper is on to me. I've got to get out and quick. Packing now. You may be my last contact with Pprune, with life, got to move fast. My password is xxxxxxx - plse update the 'do you believe in god' thread if necessary. shame to let it go. Please let Send Clowns' Bird know I can't make it - another time. Got to go and fast. Gerund."

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - is he languishing in some dark place, far from any civilised company; is this the last we shall ever hear from Gerund..................



[This message has been edited by Velvet (edited 19 June 2001).]

tony draper
19th Jun 2001, 23:42
Oh!,Hello Velvet my new friend,no pills left now, but fat man gone away,have new whisper in ear person now,hmm he got horns on head and lighty up eyes, yes, he clever ,he whisper tony where Gerund is you bet, no matter where Gerund hide horned man find him, tell tony.
Tony bring back Gerund for Velvet?,
Velvet want all of him brought back?.
Easier to leave screamy bits behind, bring most of Gerund for Velvet,Yes.

SID the STAR
20th Jun 2001, 01:38
GOD -YES
DEVIL -YES
WOMEN -YES
BEER -YES
MONEY -YES
ATCO -NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO........

Smaug
21st Jun 2001, 01:57
Come off it Velvet, you dont think youll be shot of him that easily do you?

Velvet
21st Jun 2001, 02:22
Smaug - wanna bet ?

Smaug
22nd Jun 2001, 00:02
Velvet - You think he gone 4 good?
TD - Watch it matey, G is a bad man, maybe he leave you behind?

tony draper
22nd Jun 2001, 00:26
Oh dear, nother bad man, tsk tsk,
bad man at big place, bad man with the mop
use the bad word at tony when he wash the floor with mop.
hmmm yes,many bad words.
Mommy said,wash mouth out with soap an water,
Oh yes, hmmm,soapy water bucket wouldn't fit in bad mans mouth, so tony fix mouth, bucket fitted in the end, Oh yes bucket fitted all right ,you bet.
tony like cartoons my new friend Velvet,
do you have any cartoons ,in your livey place??, do you Velvet? cartoons for tony.hmmm yes. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[This message has been edited by tony draper (edited 21 June 2001).]

Velvet
22nd Jun 2001, 01:23
Smaug - trust me, Gerund has gone for a while. :)

Tony my little Goblin' you be good and stop scaring all these nice pruners and I'll dig out some cartoons for you.



[This message has been edited by Velvet (edited 21 June 2001).]

80days
22nd Jun 2001, 05:22
No.

Time magazine recently published an article on the universe stating in 1 billion years* the sun will swell 10% and as a result earth will be uninhabitable (everybody will die). God better be making an appearance then otherwise we're all up the proverbial creek.

*Assume humans haven't already killed themselves by this stage.

no name
22nd Jun 2001, 10:53
I believe in science, and there's no factual evidence that God exists.....so NO!



[This message has been edited by no name (edited 22 June 2001).]

tony draper
22nd Jun 2001, 14:34
I think by One Billion AD,cockroaches will have probably evolved past us talkin monkeys.
We'll all be working for them,
"Tote that barge lift that bale you dirty two legger" ;)

Smaug
22nd Jun 2001, 23:29
What? Gerund gone indefinitely? But I hes still got my painting by numbers set. What am I going to do with my evenings now!

Iceolareanic
23rd Jun 2001, 03:28
Yes. Just don't be so materialistic in your presuption about how God exists. Whilst others have argued that physics is unable to explain how God can exist, they are assuming in a material being.

There's an awful lot that physicists cannot explain anyway.

tunneler
23rd Jun 2001, 03:41
No, dont believe that someone is all seeing and all powerful. Never have seen the logic behind someone or some being being) being this perfect creation and creator when so much crap happens in this world......

If there truly was a god Jamie Bulger would still be walking the planet today, Shipman would never have killed and Rangers wouldn't have got stuffed rotten this season http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

tony draper
23rd Jun 2001, 03:42
Problem is a supreme being would contravene, the the second law of thermodynamics, which presumaby he enacted himself.
to many paradox's in a deity.
A old and I suppose childish one,
If god is omnipotent, can he create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it, if he can, he can't be omnipotent because he can't move it,if he can move it he can't be omnipotent because he couldn't create this ultimate rock. err something like that.

[This message has been edited by tony draper (edited 23 June 2001).]

Superpilot
23rd Jun 2001, 16:34
God, as in a Supreme Creator? - YES.

(sorry can't resist, but since you asked a closed question you deserve this along with a kick up the @rse [for saying I shouldn't be flying])

"Well, who created God"

The first thing which had a beginning needed a beginningless one to bring it into existence (logical fact, as all others are conjectures). Reason demands one who is infinitely self-existent and self-subsistent, who undergoes no change. This creator isn't necessarily something which has an identifiable figure, it can be the universe itself. But to say there is no intelligent creator is plain absurb personally.

However I reject the idea that he begets, because it implies he has 'human-characteristics' and also implies that he was probably begotten himself - this does not befit his majestic attributes and neither does it help in understanding this being, therefore I stay away from that part of religion.

[This message has been edited by Superpilot (edited 23 June 2001).]

Capt Vegemite
23rd Jun 2001, 17:20
Ahh..yes Draper your razor sharp intellect cuts straight to the quick.

Er..something I have never really been able to grasp theologically.
Thelonius Monk once said "There is no such thing as the dark,if there was we wouldnt need light to see"
This has got to be one of the most profound statements from a holy man.
He did have a few problems with overdoing his medication.
Can you unravel this for me?


------------------

... Luposlipaphobia: The fear of being chased by timber wolves around a kitchen
table while wearing socks on a newly waxed floor."

G-OODY
23rd Jun 2001, 21:53
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">When that all important in flight emergency happens, we want effective remedial action - not prayers to the almighty.</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">I firmly believe that any 'belief' in a supreme being should be an automatic disqualifier for flying duties.</font>

Of course and a drunk bunch of Nigels and Nigellas is perfectly harmless. lol.

saggy
24th Jun 2001, 22:57
"Now, now my good man, this is no time for making enemies."

- Voltaire (1694-1778) on his deathbed in response to a priest asking that he renounce Satan.

'Agnostic' Saggy :)

[This message has been edited by saggy (edited 24 June 2001).]

Send Clowns
24th Jun 2001, 23:17
Voltaire was quite a sharp cookie.

------------------
'Me here at last on the ground, you in mid air'

guyincognito
25th Jun 2001, 09:45
Capt Vegemite,

"There is no such thing as the dark,if there was we wouldnt need light to see"

This statement combats dualism. It is not a matter of light vs dark, but light and lack of light. In other words, if it was a matter of light and dark, then, by removing the dark, there would be no more darkness and we could see!

The moral equivalent is that there is no such thing as good vs. evil. It is good and lack of good. Evil is a lack of good. That's why Jesus used light as an analogy for himself. (John 3:18-19)

Hope that helps.

Grainger
25th Jun 2001, 19:18
Proof by analogy is a dangerous business. Sure, to pick another example there is no such thing as cold - it's just a lack of heat.

But positive electrical charge is not simply the lack of negative electrical charge. There are two opposites and a body can be charged either way by having an excess of one or the other, or it can be neutral by having equal amounts of both.

So what does this prove about good and evil ? Absolutely nothing of course.

guyincognito
26th Jun 2001, 03:33
Grainger,

No Grainger, not proof but explanation. Capt Veg asked for an explanation and it was given. Nothing was attempted to be proven in the process.

Draper,

Your requirement for omnipotence is nonsense. Omnipotence means all-powerful. Can you then create something that you cannot do? Nonsense question. Besides which his creative ability, that is his abilitiy to create from nothing leads to omnipotence. It is not included within it.

Anyway, omnipotence is a construct used by theologians to synthesize the biblical material. The bible says there is nothing God cannot do, we say therefore he is omnipotent.

If you really are seeking to know God then all this discussion is not helpful anyway. There are much more profitable lanes of entry. If you are just looking for an excuse to dismiss God's existence, why not just join the rest and say, 'I don't like the idea of God,' and be done with it.

Velvet
26th Jun 2001, 04:29
Actually guyincognito, it was a very interesting and thought-provoking question by Tony Draper. Your dismissal of it proves only that you are unable to step outside the parameters you have set - within which you would like your God to reside.

Why cannot there be things you cannot personnally comprehend and yet still be possible.

Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent - God can be and is all this and more. God is all that is, all that was and all that will be.




------------------
How do you explain to a caterpillar that it can become a butterfly, and will, regardless of its current belief system.

Grainger
26th Jun 2001, 12:00
OK guy, then I offer the following explanation of good and evil:

Just as a body may contain differing quantities of the opposite electrical charges and thus have an overall positive or negative charge, or be neutral if they are in balance, then a person can be influenced by the opposing forces of good and evil and be either good, evil or neutral depending on the relative amounts.

So whose 'explanation' is correct ?

Neither is helpful in any way.

If you don't like the word 'proof' then let us say that we learn nothing by either analogy.


[This message has been edited by Grainger (edited 26 June 2001).]

Iceolareanic
27th Jun 2001, 00:48
Yes, However one doesn't need to, or should try to provide an explanation, especially not a materialistic one.

G-OODY
27th Jun 2001, 02:04
Precisely Ice,

Through knowledge and understanding, sure things are learnt, but as flight crew, you’re probably all too aware how much gets taken for granted, i.e. the obvious signs, the fundamentals. In the same way, through learning some of mankind has no need or desire for a God - as everything they need is at hand, easy, and plentiful.

Consequently, to confront an agnostic regarding the issue of a God is pointless, since they do not have a need for one; all other reasons are either personal or due to misconception. This has led to 'faith' being a very private issue for specific individuals.

I have always believed you cannot use science to prove (or disprove for that matter) the God theory. Science uses conceptual models to help understand behaviour we can’t see, these models are adapted for none other than us. As far as we should be concerned, gravity is still a magical and mysterious force. We know 2 masses attract, we know the variables which affect the degree of attraction, but the question still begs – Why? The God theory has been defying the same laws of physics for 1000’s of years, just because we have a better understanding of physics does not change this in the slightest. Simply put, to believe is to have ‘faith’, that is: to believe in the unseen. The choice is yours, but the truth stands as it is whatever you choose….then comes religion.

guyincognito
27th Jun 2001, 10:02
G-OODY,

There is good reason to tell everyone about God. That is because when this world ends everyone will be judged for how they have treated God. This applies to all people, regardless of religion or personal feelings about their need for God.

To suppress the open transmission of the bible's message to the private realm is to deprive people of the message they need to hear.

Grainger
27th Jun 2001, 11:52
guy;

You are the one who offered the light vs. dark analogy in the first place, then described it as "not proof, but explanation".

As I have shown it doesn't explain anything.

Now ice-hole pops up and says "one doesn't need to, or should try to provide an explanation"

For f*cks sake guys get your story straight.

Slasher
27th Jun 2001, 12:17
God is all bullsh!t. As an atheist I dont say that because religion is inconvenient for me to believe in one, but because my research has led me to the logical conclusion there isnt any supernatural being or beings.
Its very human and 3rd-dimensional to believe everything was at some point created, and therefore indicative of a creator. Thats the way the Universe was thought of for much of time. Trouble was, someone mathematicaly deduced the existance of Black Holes. Empirical proof soon followed after. This set all we thought about the Universe upside-down and inside-out. So after years of studying quantum physics (which is bloodey difficult to grasp let alone comprehend) and of also investigating the religions of christianity, islam, buddhism, taoism and hindu, I place religion in the catagory of ancient superstition.
But hey if religion is your thing, do it. Just dont annoy the sh!t out of everyone else.

Superpilot
27th Jun 2001, 12:42
Slasher,
define 'conciousness'. What does it mean to think.

Grainger
27th Jun 2001, 13:11
Yawnorama.

Back to semantics again.

Either come up with a coherent argument or f*ck off. This isn't the Oxford English Dictionary site !!

Winston Smith
27th Jun 2001, 13:31
This should settle the matter:


Also sprach der Teufel einst zu mir: "Auch Gott hat seine
Hölle: das ist seine Liebe zu den Menschen."

Und jüngst hörte ich ihn dies Wort sagen: "Gott ist tot;
an seinem Mitleiden mit den Menschen ist Gott gestorben." --

Also sprach Zarathustra
Friedrich Nietzsche


(transl.:

Thus spake the devil unto me, once upon a time: "Even God hath
his hell: it is his love for man."

And lately, I did hear him say these words: "God is dead;
of his pity for man hath God died." --

Thus Spake Zarathustra
Friedrich Nietzsche)


Ah yes, and Slasher, please cut that black hole bullsh't. :)

ComJam
27th Jun 2001, 13:33
Sorry bit slow...........NO!

tony draper
27th Jun 2001, 13:50
WHY and Wherefore set out one day
To hunt for a wild Negation.
They agreed to meet at a cool retreat
On the Point of Interrogation.

But the night was dark and they missed their mark,
And, driven well-nigh to distraction,
They lost their ways in a murky maze
Of utter abstruse abstraction.

Then they took a boat and were soon afloat
On a Sea of Speculation,
But the sea grew rough, and their boat, though tough,
Was split into an Equation.

As they floundered about in the Waves of Doubt
Rose a fearful Hypothesis,
Who gibbered with glee as they sank in the sea,
And the last they saw was this:

On a rock-bound Reef of Unbelief
There sat the wild Negation;
Then they sank once more and were washed ashore
At the Point of Interrogation.

Oliver Herford

Slasher
27th Jun 2001, 14:12
Jeez Winston and all this time I thought "Also sprach Zarathustra" was written by Eumir Deodato!

Velvet
27th Jun 2001, 14:30
Wouldn't Eumir Deodata have written in Brazilian or Spanish though Slash?

Slasher
27th Jun 2001, 14:38
Its "Deodato" Vel honey. "Deodata" is the list of chemical ingredients found on the side of a can of body-spray! ;)

JBravo
27th Jun 2001, 15:21
Better late than never: NO!

------------------
http://smilecwm.tripod.com/net7/bravo.gif

old_cross_bound
27th Jun 2001, 18:15
And lately, I did hear him say these words: "God is dead;
of his pity for man hath God died." --

Thus Spake Zarathustra
Friedrich Nietzsche)

The way I heard it after Nietzsche death,

"Nietzsche is dead", God

Tricky Woo
27th Jun 2001, 18:23
What's happened to Gerund?

old_cross_bound
27th Jun 2001, 18:24
Natterjack

It's not my intention to start a riot or indeed any form of anger between those who believe in God and those who don't, but I am curious as to why God allows the following to occur if he or she is real:
1. Long-term suffering for those at a disadvantage in terms of poverty (though wealth, eduction, desease or such like), primarily but not exclusively in poverty-stricken countries.

2. Natural disasters which claim thousands of lives thoughout the world each year.

3. Suffering to animals.

4. Death.

I am a little ignorant of Christianity, but I would have thought that, if God did exist, then suffering would be minimalised (for both humans and animals) and death wouldn't occur.

***That's the way the creator intended for it to be when God created the Universe however it was man that rebelled against God causing the curse we are now experiencing.
In Christianity Good and Evil is bracketed. There was a time when only good existed without evil and there will be a time of good only again in the future. No other belief system makes this claim but insist that evil has always been and will always be. In Christianity there will be an end to evil according to Gods plan through judgement. If God were not merciful the judgement would have already occured and we would all either not exist or would be dead by now, unable to talk about this.

ocb

old_cross_bound
27th Jun 2001, 18:48
Loki
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
If I believed in God ,or if I didn`t,would it make any difference?
Discuss


Actually, I do believe in something like that but it`s intensely personal.</font>

***Intensely????????

***Velvet speaks of her broom but is in reality in love with her tongue. To bad there is a great big fork in it. It might be useful otherwise. Repent dear. God still loves you and wants to know you.

ocb



[This message has been edited by old_cross_bound (edited 27 June 2001).]

old_cross_bound
27th Jun 2001, 19:01
The Fokker's chocka ocker

Imagine having the temerity and gall to think you have universal significance greater than a speck of amoeba poo!
Most of us here appreciate multi-dimensional thinking. Think about the utter enormity of the universe as we know it, and how we,
(all of us in toto), pale in complete insignificance, compared.

So here we are, dumb f*&lt;k human beings, thinking we're the divinely chosen children of a great and loving creator-benefactor.
How naive of us!

Ever notice that those who hold this belief dearest, are the same people who are constantly at war with others who share it?

This blind faith can be understood of a simple-minded people of a couple of thousand years ago, looking for a crutch in a pitiful, and seemingly pointless existance.
Subscribe to a belief system and cure all ills.
How come it's not working?

Blind faith is just that when we are blind to the fact that all the prayers, ceremony and ritual worship by many billions over thousands of years still adds up to zilch. Zippo.
We still have untold pointless misery and utter despair being visited upon millions of people every day. Every day.

I may be struck down for this, but think it's a fair question... who wants a "god" who's such a c*nt?
Should i be struck down though, there'll be proof.
Now i'm just plain asking for it!

You'll note, it's a long-winded NO for me gerund, but one can't expect a one-word opinion.

In closing, we can expect to just as likely turn out to be the experimental progeny of what we call, an alien race.
It's no more outlandish than anything proffered by the faithful.
And there's more proof!


***Now this is my kind of post! I can see that you don't get it, yet. Do you know Jesus Christ? He stands at the door to your heart and knocks.
BTW, blind faithlessness has been around just as long as blind faith so that point is mute. Misery came from mans misbehavior towards his creator. It's a creature problem not a creator problem you're having.

It's really interesting and amusing to read that when something good happens to someone like you it's always something you did but when something bad happens to you it's always Gods fault even though you insist God doesn't exist. Quite a confessing actually, coming from one in rebellion towards God.

God Bless,

ocb

old_cross_bound
27th Jun 2001, 19:07
no name

I believe in science, and there's no factual evidence that God exists.....so NO!

***and no facts to disprove God either!

:)

old_cross_bound
27th Jun 2001, 19:26
Agnostics have no neutral ground to stand on simply by making the point that they are agnostic is taking a self-contradictory position.

Atheist have no basis for argument in that they can't prove a negative as it is impossible to do so therefore their statement of absolute isn't and can't be part of reality but only fantasy which contains the attitude of rebellion against something that may very well exist.

ocb :)

Grainger
27th Jun 2001, 19:33
ocb;

I remember reading in a old philosophy book about a branch of thinking that goes beyond both Agnosticism and Atheism.

The idea being that any discussion of God is pointless since you can neither prove, disprove or whatever you want to call it. Hence the question of whether there is or isn't a God is meaningless.

I can't remember the term used - anyone know the name for this point of view ?

old_cross_bound
27th Jun 2001, 20:27
Grainger
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
ocb;
I remember reading in a old philosophy book about a branch of thinking that goes beyond both Agnosticism and Atheism.

The idea being that any discussion of God is pointless since you can neither prove, disprove or whatever you want to call it. Hence the question of whether there is or isn't a God is meaningless.

I can't remember the term used - anyone know the name for this point of view ?
</font>


Monism?
It's the belief that ultimate reality is beyond all differentiation which leads one to say that there is no absolute truth.

Why?

Because truth implies a distinction between truth and non-truth. Monism however, being undifferentiated, does not allow for such distinctions.

It, therefore, includes and absorbs all concepts of truth. The problem with it is:
the statement that there is no absolute truth is itself an absolute truth, and thereby self-contradictory, which is a logical inconsistency.

Monoism says that ultimate reality is without differentiation or seperation. It is thus "not" a form of intelligence, because intelligence makes distinctions between things. Such an undifferentiated source is inadequate as a "first cause" for reality that manisfest distinctions and for a humanity that exhibits intelligence.

If one looks into religions such as secular atheism and evolution or eastern religions such as Buddhism etc.., Monoism isn't consistant with them at all.

***Christianity on the other hand is based not only in reality but in history as well(Israel etc...). It provides for a creator /creature distinction.
It doesn't hold to some fantasy of a continuity of being or an autonomous man way of thinking, " I'm the final arbitor of truth" claim; it's based more in something objective and not subjective relative truths.

None of these Eastern belief systems are based in history. Hinduism isn't based in the history of India nor is Confucism or Buddism based in the history of China etc...historically speaking.

BTW, the top seven of these eastern beliefs (Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucism, etc..) all sprang into being about the time Daniel and the Jews (in the old testament bible) were in exile in Babylon. (around 600BC) Janism for instance has similar dietary rules which were being observed by the exiled Hebrews. Buddhism picked up on some of the wisdom of that time period.

Whirly,

Tell me, what you really gain from the Buddhist philosophy which offers you anything beyond this life? Buddha made no claim to divinity and Jesus Christ offers eternal salvation.

ocb

tony draper
27th Jun 2001, 21:22
History?, most of the new testament is pure plagerism, the stories are not only silly they are not even origial, Mithras ,predated christianity , born in a cave of the virgin earth mother, when he died he told his follower's to eat his body, Norse mythology again predates christianity, Wotan hugh up to die in the oak tree, released after three days, stabbed in the side with his own spear?,also fed by crows for a while.
Hardly history, just myth.
Silly medieval superstisious nonsence.

Winston Smith
27th Jun 2001, 22:50
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Whirly,

Tell me, what you really gain from the Buddhist philosophy which offers you anything beyond this life? Buddha made no claim to divinity and Jesus Christ offers eternal salvation.</font>

Well, ocb, that's exaclty the point! Would you either give your money to someone who claimed to multiply it by a factor of 10 within six months, or put it onto a savings account with modest interest?


And while we are at it:

Jesus saves.
Moses invests.

:) :) :) :) :)


[This message has been edited by Winston Smith (edited 27 June 2001).]

old_cross_bound
28th Jun 2001, 02:02
tony draper

History?, most of the new testament is pure plagerism, the stories are not only silly they are not even origial, Mithras ,predated christianity , born in a cave of the virgin earth mother, when he died he told his follower's to eat his body, Norse mythology again predates christianity, Wotan hugh up to die in the oak tree, released after three days, stabbed in the side with his own spear?,also fed by crows for a while.
Hardly history, just myth.
Silly medieval superstisious nonsence.

***It doesn't predate Judism which is historically where Christianity came from and Mithras doesn't predate the Psalms of David which prophesied the virgin birth. If anything Mithras copied the prophesies in an attempt to disceive and there is no truth in that pagan myth at all, sorry. If you want to worship the sun God then you might consider what it really has to offer you in the after life, nothing.

Winston Smith


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
Whirly,
Tell me, what you really gain from the Buddhist philosophy which offers you anything beyond this life? Buddha made no claim to divinity and Jesus Christ offers eternal salvation.

------
Well, ocb, that's exaclty the point! Would you either give your money to someone who claimed to multiply it by a factor of 10 within six months, or put it onto a savings account with modest interest?

And while we are at it:

Jesus saves.
Moses invests.</font>

***I see! You're into the here and now. I'm into the here after as the here and now is here for a finite amount of time and the here after is infinite as I see it. It's a matter of priority I guess. I don't give money to established religion. I help those who have real needs as Christ instructed us to be. Sounds boring if you're the one giving but it's very hopeful for the one in need. It just depends on which position you are in.

ocb

Winston Smith
28th Jun 2001, 02:46
ocb,

I wasn't talking about giving money to religious hucksters. It was just a comparison, or a parable, as Jesus would have called it. If someone promises too much there is usually a catch to it. Who knows? Maybe Jesus has a filthy deal with the arch-fiend and sells your soul once you have passed away.

By the way, I also find it quite surprising to hear that you choose a religion based on what IT offers YOU. Aren't we supposed to give? :rolleyes:

old_cross_bound
28th Jun 2001, 03:52
Winston Smith

ocb,
I wasn't talking about giving money to religious hucksters. It was just a comparison, or a parable, as Jesus would have called it. If someone promises too much there is usually a catch to it. Who knows? Maybe Jesus has a filthy deal with the arch-fiend and sells your soul once you have passed away.

By the way, I also find it quite surprising to hear that you choose a religion based on what IT offers YOU. Aren't we supposed to give?


***Obviously you know and understand very little about Christianity. It's about putting others first and not self. It's about giving up your life if need be and it's about knowing your creator and the creator of the Universe we live in.
It's closer to the opposite of what you seem to think here. Have you ever read the gospel book of John in the new testament, KJV?

ocb

Winston Smith
28th Jun 2001, 14:22
I give up on this one.

Quoting an entire post ( :mad: )is no substitute for reading it.

I'll try my best to keep out of this "debate".

See y'all in Hell! :)

Engineer
28th Jun 2001, 14:32
Winston

You might as well you are just nailing yourself to a cross.

Quoting the good book God created man in his own image so man is God Simple solution to a complexed subject

All things are simple it is only man that complicates them. Such a profound statement

[This message has been edited by Engineer (edited 28 June 2001).]

old_cross_bound
28th Jun 2001, 18:06
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Winston Smith

I give up on this one. </font>


***Next! :)

Engineer
28th Jun 2001, 18:41
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">I'd like to volunteer to moderate Slasher and those like him. Notice in his original post here, he made no mention of even attempting to moderate his behaviour, at all. Like, that's out of the question.

Here in Texas we have a armed society. A 9mm in each hip pocket and an AK47 behind every pick-up truck and car seat. A armed society is a very polite and respectful society.
We would be glad to welcome Slasher and his kind to Texas where we could rearrange some of their bad habits and give them all a major attitude adjustment.

Then the newly aquired politeness would overflow on Pprune and you wouldn't have to put up with these spoiled babies so much.

Maybe we could even start a business out of it, similar to bear hunting. You catch them and send them my way and I'll skin them for you. What do you think?

ocb</font>

*** ocb Is this a scientific fact or just ungodly?



[This message has been edited by Engineer (edited 28 June 2001).]

old_cross_bound
28th Jun 2001, 19:53
Engineer,

Did you copy and paste to the wrong thread accidentally or on purpose? You tell me what you think is Godly and what is unGodly. I'd really like to know your opinion.
Even better, define for me what you believe good is.

ocb