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Incipient Sinner
6th Feb 2004, 17:34
Phew,

That was pretty close, only last week there we were; Lubyanka, Bellorusskaya and Smolenskaya.

How fortunate that ILS32 made that masterful last move and we all returned home before this tragegy befell the Moscow metro.

IS

The Invisible Man
6th Feb 2004, 17:52
Agreed I S,

We must never travel that route again. The whole of the "Cresenters" world was indeed at stake. Thank you ILS32 for a safe return.:ok:

under_exposed
6th Feb 2004, 17:53
Rather poor taste to make light of such an event.

Evening Star
6th Feb 2004, 18:02
Was there last week (researching MC moves of course...), so news has bit more impact than normal. Very nasty business. Has feel of bad old days of IRA activity here.

Rather poor taste to make light of such an event.

Gallows humour under_exposed. Typical 'one has to laugh to avoid crying' response.

Mrs Ivy Trellis
6th Feb 2004, 19:45
A truly terrible event, I would like to pass on my symathies and condolences to all involved.

I am glad to see that all you jetsetting Pruners are safe and sound; especially that Mr Sinner, he sounds nice.

The Invisible Man
6th Feb 2004, 20:49
Thank you for those kind words Mrs. Trellis.

My Mother ( Mrs Freda Proot, widow of the late Lord Mauningstone ) sends her regards and hopes to see you at Gala Bingo soon.

I hear you haven't been too good.

Boss Raptor
7th Feb 2004, 01:35
Of one thing I am certain Mr . P (Putin not PPrune) will send the boys in to punish those involved most severely...leaving the those metro systems of the world to be safely utilised by Crescenters the world over...

Note: to all Chechen rebels...turn off your mobile phones...laser guided bombs have ears :ok:

flapsforty
7th Feb 2004, 02:36
BR, thought of you when I heard the news this morning and hoped you were nowhere near the place.
Glad I was right.

Seems the world media have strangely fallen silent about the abuse heaped on the Chechens by Mr. P. now that the whole thing can be nicely qualified as 'just part of the war on terror'.
Realpolitik really does suck at times. :sad:

Boss Raptor
7th Feb 2004, 02:52
The previous bomb outside the Duma was not far my old office...have moved to Novy Arbat Street now...

The more the Chechens' do this the more hatred they are building in the Russian people...not sympathy...and that hatred and intolerance is very real... :sad:

Again this sort of atrocity is far worse and inhuman in reality for the Russian people...most of whom are poor and most of whose family will suffer in the long term due to the loss of a bread winner...far more so than if it were in the UK or USA for example...at the site of the last Metro blast some years ago 'Belaruskaya' there is a little memorial and the relatives still lay flowers every day

The Russians now expect Putin to act in retaliation (summary execution of Chechen rebels, quite right too) which no doubt he will, his popularity will increase (even more so than he already has)...no one here has any sympathy for the Chechens due mainly to the levels of violence and atrocities committed by the Chechens themselves against the Russian military and civilian population, something conveniently forgotten in the outside world where of course it is all the Russians fault.

As my boss said on the phone 'If Putin starts to kill Chechin terrorists today he will be President for life in eyes of Russian people' Chechen own goal I think!

Incipient Sinner
7th Feb 2004, 08:12
Very well put,

The views of a people (the Russians in this case but any other would do) are not influenced by terrorist activity, except to become more bitter and angry against those who inflict it.

We, the British, have weathered terrorist action for years and I feel that it makes a nation more resolute in its beliefs. While terrorism often has a valid cause the means rarely achieves the intended end in the modern world.

I would become even more cynical if the catch-all of world terrorism was to be used in this case as an exuse to get a foot in the door of the Russian/Chechyan bad boys.

Chaffers
7th Feb 2004, 09:43
Thats probably 'cos we've taken more than a leaf out of the Ruskies book in the way we deal with terrorists lately flapsie. :ok:

Quite right too, and nice to see that the Russians arn't handicapped by the handwringing prevalent in western european societies.

The Invisible Man
7th Feb 2004, 19:01
Hell, I must have been the only person in the world who didn't watch or listen to any news over the last few days. I trully did not know of the disaster in Moscow, my comments in this thread may have sounded uncaring and flippant. I apologise to all.

Terrorism is never the answer.

My sincere sympathies to all involved.

tony draper
7th Feb 2004, 19:59
I have a friend on another website,he lived near the Russian Chechen Border, thankfully he is in the USA now,he had a fund of stories about the chechens and the horror of living anywhere near them, he said the best way to imagine chechnya is as if the night club doormen pimps and the lowest criminalscumbags walking the earth had taken over and were running your country,he said organised crime would have been better,they could have been negociated with, they have the profit motive, Once they has stolen everything from their countrymenm and anybody else near enough to grab they are turning on the rest of the world, and they have plenty of religiously mind fecked fanatics to act as their cannon fodder.
I have absolutely zero sympathy for Chechnya.

Boss Raptor
8th Feb 2004, 21:43
Russian intelligence are known to have foiled at least 4 plots by the Chechens to obtain fissile materials in the last 2 years, usually from train transport of radioactive fuel rods across the country.

It is also said at high level that the original target for the Chechen rebel group that took the theatre hostages was actually the famous Atomic Laboratory complex at Sarov outside Moscow, the Kurchatov Academy aka 'Arzamas-16'. They intended to seize highly enriched weapons grade Uranium which is stored there. The realisation of the heavy security/military units they would face made them change to a softer target...

...and people ask/wonder why they are dealt with so ruthlessly :cool:

airship
9th Feb 2004, 08:18
Boss Raptor wrote:
Russian intelligence are known to have foiled at least 4 plots by the Chechens to obtain fissile materials in the last 2 years...

Could we please have an independent inquiry concerning these attempts at acquiring WMD? :O

Evening Star
9th Feb 2004, 18:21
Boss Raptor wrote:
The more the Chechens' do this the more hatred they are building in the Russian people...not sympathy...and that hatred and intolerance is very real...
Mrs ES is Russian, and her opinion on the situation pretty much fits in with what BR is saying. Interesting as generally her view on life is, like mine, pretty liberal.

Terrorism prompts a response, and usually the response is to make worse the polarisation that prompted the terrorism in the first place. (For example, back in the 1980's, when my colleagues and I were having to check our cars every morning for bombs, a lot of my colleagues ended up with a hatred of all things Irish.) Not a helpful starting point for any solution to seemingly intractable problems.

I am certain Putin will react. In the long term it may not solve anything but it will most certainly get the support of the Russian people.

flapsforty
9th Feb 2004, 19:01
Perhaps Mr P has already reacted?
Ivan Rybkin, former Duma president, current (no hope) presidential candidate is one of Mr P strongest critics when it comes to teh freedom of press in Russia and to Mr P's handling of Chechenia.

Mr Rybkin has been reported missing by his family last friday. Moscow authorities wanted to start an investigation into his possible murder. National authorities have now overruled this......

mr Rybkin would not be the first political opponent to disappear at the hands of Mr P. Who stands to win the coming elections with 80% of the vote BTW.