View Full Version : ATC vs PILOTS

9th Jun 2001, 00:12
This is jet blast right?

all you air traffic controllers out there, may i remind you that us PILOTS fly the aircraft and not you!
we will obay your instructions and so forth,but if you cannot handle the pressure please lay off.

aviate,navigate,communicate...that is the order.

now let me enjoy this flight.

9th Jun 2001, 01:48
Who rattled your cage?

gul dukat
9th Jun 2001, 02:52
so what on earth is making your crotch itch ?? What has happened that you have suddenly felt the need to bring this up ? I'm listening !

9th Jun 2001, 03:04
And to all you PILOTS out there....its us ATCO's who have to sequence you in amongst lots of other PILOTS and avoid the PILOTS going every which way.....so stop watching your TCAS displays and constantly narking on about "is that my traffic?" "Whats that one doing" "Can see it on TCAS can I now go visual" Stop blocking the RT, FLY the plane and let US do our job of stopping you hitting each other...

rant over ...back to sleep!

:) :) :) :) :) :)

9th Jun 2001, 04:01
Previous comment cancelled due to Red Wine

[This message has been edited by sickBocks (edited 09 June 2001).]

9th Jun 2001, 05:38
This will end in tears

9th Jun 2001, 06:51
The place in the middle of the screen where all the dots meet at the same level.... is called an airfield.

Slowing down 385 tonnes of aluminium? Easy. Fly it into another 385 tonnes of aluminium coming the other way that you didn't know about because you thought you didn't need Air Traffic Control.

Groop I implore thee,
My foonting turlingdromes.

Gen Brace
9th Jun 2001, 08:26
O.K. Here goes.

If it isnt for us engineers then the plane wont move in the first place!.

Simple Really

Radar Departure2
9th Jun 2001, 09:22
Yawn....Here we go again. Another pointless battle of tender and oversized egos.

Why don't we just cut to the real issue? Select one of the following:
a) "My car goes faster than yours"
b) "My d!ck is bigger than yours" or
c) "I earn more than you"

It's all the same argument, really.


Spuds McKenzie
9th Jun 2001, 09:43
Isn't it rather that the AIRCRAFT is flying the pilots nowadays?
(What does this button do?)

:) :) :)

"say again?"

9th Jun 2001, 11:11
The topic is not about egos etc...
its about the fact that ATC think they are doing us a favour by letting us fly in their airspace, and their airports and what not..
my point is simple,my ass is doing 8 miles a minute,while theirs is rocking on a chair,so,show some respect and harmony just like we listen to and obey your instructions.
i respect ATC,so respect us too!

Kick It Straight
9th Jun 2001, 11:50
*My dads bigger than your dad*

Kick it straight!!!

9th Jun 2001, 16:41
have to say as a GA pilot I have allways found ATC very helpful, and, no I am not creeping

Spuds McKenzie
9th Jun 2001, 16:56
Talking about respect, SID, eh?
There's too many of your kind around who believe, they've got a god given gift, flying a piece of metal in the air with an attitude like: "You're not gonna tell me how I'm supposed to fly my aircraft."
As an airline pilot you carry home shitloads of money, as an ATCO I carry shitloads of responsibility.
We're just part of a jigsaw and so are you. We always try to do our best to manage the traffic in our airspace, and there's heaps of it.
You seem to have a need to have a go at us, but remember: It's not us who set the rules, there's an authority behind it. We have to put up with it as well, and believe me, we're not always happy about it.

"say again?"

Hercules Grytpype Thynne
9th Jun 2001, 17:13
Which of you earns the most money?

Allow me to introduce myself.

Radar Departure2
9th Jun 2001, 20:18
It's not about egos, Sid? Sid the Star that is? Sid the Star, the B767 CAPTAIN with an email address of [email protected]? Nope, no egos in play here.

"My ass is doing 8 miles a minute... Show me some respect...." :) :) :). In Australia, Siddy old mate, we have a word for people like you. It sounds like banker and it starts with W.

Sad, Sid, Sad.


10th Jun 2001, 00:01
I wonder what Sids personal car registration could be?

10th Jun 2001, 01:21
radar departure2... [email protected]
You've got room to talk mate! if you slow down a bit, you could add your favorite EGO word in your profile.
In Europe we also have a word for you....

Now i know why you earn less money.

10th Jun 2001, 15:37
First post deleted due beer.

I love you atco's you make my job heaps easier, my wife would prefer it if you didn't stuff up to often, as you have in the past and so have I.

[This message has been edited by Throtlemonkey (edited 10 June 2001).]

Send Clowns
11th Jun 2001, 01:20
SID, dear boy, it may do you good to listen to the wise. You are behaving like a spoilt child, not the manager of a flight crew. You're not ex-single-seat are you?

Your job is easy. You take off, then after that your aircraft is capable of flying itself. If all you did was programme the automatic systems then the chances are the aircraft would arrive safely to where you drive it to the gate. Remember, you are an emergency system and a comfort to the passengers, nothing more. That'll keep your ego within the bounds of your physical body.

'Me here at last on the ground, you in mid air'

Co ordination unaffected
11th Jun 2001, 01:45
If you have a problem, why don't you bugger off outside CAS and squawk 7000? Then you won't have to talk to us and we won't have to bother with you.

Which suits me.

I suspect the reasons for you not doing this are simple. Please stop being a child.

Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days.

[This message has been edited by Co ordination unaffected (edited 10 June 2001).]

11th Jun 2001, 03:06
Send Clowns

I hope this thread was started by a bad day at work, but if we start down the road of the plane flying it's self etc. I think everyones job is at risk.

If the computers are working real time with data sync and all the rest. Planes won't need clearance because the plane will know how it fits in the big picture and we will all end up being PR OK button pushers.

But i think that Mother Nature and Murphy's law will mean that we will all be in a job for a few years yet :)


[This message has been edited by mad_jock (edited 10 June 2001).]

11th Jun 2001, 04:38
I believe this is a cue for Gen Brace to appear again and point out who will be designing the computer systems that will make you all redundant. At least engineers' jobs are pretty safe for a while.

Oh well - Back to the drawing board...

Send Clowns
11th Jun 2001, 23:42
Yeah, I know mad_jock. Just trying to get him to wind his neck in. Pilots have a bad enough reputation for arrogance! This is not an 'us against them' situation, it's 'us with them'. A pilot's job's somewhat easier than the more pressured controllers' jobs as well! (I am a pilot, btw)

12th Jun 2001, 22:09
Send Clowns ..... your dead right. With out each other each of them would earn jack-all!!!! If I could get out of my C152 and fly a B767 I wouldn't be complaining. This is the job you've chosen to do and it ain't like you chose to do it yesterday is it - ATC/Pilots are part of the decision you made.


12th Jun 2001, 22:58
Don't be nasty to ATCOs. They have an important job to do.

Just like Traffic Wardens in fact. Where would we be without them? It would be impossible to park, let alone drive, in almost all our large towns and cities.

And if they want to pretend that they are VERY important, just like Traffic Wardens, let them. Would you like to sit around all day in the dark, pretend to be 'in aviation' and have the women ignore you when they find you only play adult computer games? Of course not.

Being an ATCO is hard work, make no mistake.

Bit like being a lavatory attendant. We need them to keep the toilet clean, but when it comes to pissing we don't want them telling us where to aim. And bless them, they don't. Hurrah for ATCOs.

gul dukat
13th Jun 2001, 01:35
Gerund I presume you do these things for effect ...however just in case you don't may I be the first on this thread to say that you are an inarticulate to$$er and god forbid that I should ever have to part company with hard earned cash to avail myself of whatever service you provide to the flying public! I believe the bon mot here is GOB$HITE!

[This message has been edited by gul dukat (edited 12 June 2001).]

13th Jun 2001, 03:07
gul dukat -

Well, that's a fine thing. I come to your defence and just get abuse.

Shame on you.

13th Jun 2001, 16:46
Hey I am just a student pilot but I think you all have lost sight of the most important thing. I want to know why you are all in aviation. I know that when I finish my course at the end of this year I will struggle to get even a small charter job. But didn't you all get into aviation cause you loved the idea. If you call yourself a pilot and are after just the money than I say you are not a true pilot. I respect the ACTO's not for the work they do to keep me out of others way but cause they have helped me in learning what the hell I am supposed to do in CTA. give each other a break and start to remeber what it was like when you first started flying a bloody C152 or worse a tail dragger and had no bl**dy help. I am not brown nosing to anyone here I am just saying what I see

Diversions? what the hell are they!!

Oh you mean this extra track written on the back

Aluminium Importer
13th Jun 2001, 16:51
Sid and Gerund,

Whilst you are in the air and everything is going swimmingly it is actually me and my other ATCO colleagues that fly your aeroplanes.

We say turn right and you will do it.
We say turn left and you will do it.
We say climb and you will do it.
We say descend and you will do it.
We say fly a speed and you will do it.

The list goes on...

You are merely just the people that input my instructions into the aircraft by twiddling those knobs on your dashboard! :)

I am not only flying your aeroplanes, but those of everyone else you hear on frequency. All that in addition to managing MY airspace and MY frequency. :)

Therefore because I could be flying (and separating) up to 15 aircraft at a time, I should be earning the equivalent of 15x average pilots salaries on top of my own...

And anyone thinking of replying with grumpy smilies, remember this is jetblast!


[This message has been edited by Aluminium Importer (edited 13 June 2001).]

13th Jun 2001, 17:50
flyboy_33 -

"had no bl**dy help" ..... Good grief man, hasn't anyone told you that you are meant to have an instructor these days? All credit to you for blundering into a CTA without ever having had a flying lesson - it's chaps like you that made our Empire great. But I would hazard a guess that you were somewhat fortunate to have an ATCO tell you all about CTAs in the air. Maybe he was taking a break from the Jif (or Cif, or whatever they call it now).

Alumininium Importer -

Really! Who are you kidding. Shows how little you know!!! Ho, Ho, Ho!!

14th Jun 2001, 03:12
Like your style, however, if you were any good you'd be a pilot.

All the best.

14th Jun 2001, 13:57
Twiddling knobs? Shows how much you know, most of us usw the steering wheel instead!
And sometimes when given a heading by ATC, I'll turn to a heading one half a degree off of what they said...just to prove I don't have to do everything they say! ;)

14th Jun 2001, 14:22
Look, let me put in bluntly.

Pilots say "standby" or "unable to comply" for a variety of reasons. Usually it is because we want to finish our sandwiches or are in the middle of touching up a hostie.

When we want to do what ATCOs suggest we should, we read back what we are going to do. If it all agrees, which it usually does because, after all, ATCOs' training isn't that bad, then all is hunky dory. If it isn't what we are going to do, we say "unable to comply", come up with a spurious reason, and have another mouthful of sandwich or hostie.

What I love is "readback correct". Of course it is! We just told you that is what WE are going to DO.

Lap? Kok? - Chek!
14th Jun 2001, 18:51
Intentionally Left Blank :)

[This message has been edited by Lap? Kok? - Chek! (edited 14 June 2001).]

Lap? Kok? - Chek!
14th Jun 2001, 18:56
SID THE STAR - well doesn't that say it all SID ??
Have a high opinion of ourself do we ??

You are either a 5hitstirrer or you have 2 dicks - nobody could get that stupid just playing with one.

So you have a couple of hundred tonnes of metal strapped to your arze doing 8 miles a minute huh? - I hope it's only a freighter.
Try working with thirty or more pieces of metal hurtling around the sky at 8 miles a minute, several of which are either not doing what they are supposed to or not telling you what they are doing. At least one more (usually SIA) whining about not getting his requested level and then wanting to know what traffic is holding him down. The same guy will then go on to ask for higher levels and traffic every time he gets a frequency change thus increasing everybody's work load.
- Situational awareness ? .... HA!
Then there will be the 4 or 5 guys (was that an American accent?)who are either not listening or can't hear because of RFI or 5hitty ground equipment so you have to repeat everything you say to them - several times.
And that's on a normal 8 hour shift, add a taifun or some bad weather just to make life a little interesting.......but it's OK cos we only have to do that 5 or 6 days out of seven. It's just lucky for you that the rest of the guy's/gals up there act like professionals and get on with the job and the guy on the ground doesn't lose his rag and tell you all to "eff off", unplug and leave you to look after yourselves"

Now....where was I ??? Sheeeeit..ABC567X turn left and descend immediately..traffic in your 12-o-clock, 6 miles......

Somebody pass me another pill please....and a beer to wash it down with.

[This message has been edited by Lap? Kok? - Chek! (edited 14 June 2001).]

Send Clowns
14th Jun 2001, 23:19
Any chance you could post regular warnings, Gerund, of the airspace you are likely to occupy, so that we can avoid it? I prefer to aviate with professionals, not arrogant little twerps.

'Me here at last on the ground, you in mid air'

14th Jun 2001, 23:55
Hah! 'aviate' is it? What's wrong with the word 'fly'? I know your type. Straight out of school and think they know it all. Well, when you actually get to 'fly' you'll be eating your sandwiches just like me. You'll also get around to slipping your hand up the hosties' skirts now and then. Actually, come to think of it - you're too damn 'nice'. When are you going to learn that women don't like 'nice' men. And that goes for female ATCOs too - worth a looksee and grope when times are lean, but they have to be pretty damn lean.

[This message has been edited by Gerund (edited 15 June 2001).]

15th Jun 2001, 00:31
I`m staying out of this one because I think pilots are wonderful, especially the ones who thank me when I give them a direct route, call me "sir" occasionally, otherwise manage to maintain a listening watch on the RT, and comply with my instructions.