Deicing fluids

[Ivan Urge]

A colleage of mine operated to the frozen north of China the other day in freezing fog and snow at temps of down to -28C. He was de-iced or perhaps anti-iced with a fluid that was a complete enigma to everyone as to what type it was. Apart from the complete lack of knowledge about cold weather procedures displayed by the helper in the right seat; there was no holdover charts in the aircraft. Upon further investigation we discovered that despite the fact that this airline has been operating for ten years in these conditions there are NO holdover charts anywhere
in the company!!!

So help us out here. We (you can guess who we refers to) would like to at least have our own personal copies of holdover charts, even if the other pilots are not interested in using them. I am sure they are a worldwide standard.

Anyone care to publish them here or direct me to a website as I have had no luck.

That will be the easy part. The next part is finding out just what that fluid was. Does anyone have a definitive list of all the de/anti ice fluids in use around the world and in particular what might be used in China? Again I have not been able to find it on the web.

Thanks..

Would you want to fly with us? The new aviation frontier!!
:ooh:

[safetypee]

See AEA De-icing Handbook. (http://www.aea.be/aeawebsite/datafiles/deicing18-final.pdf) UK AIC 105/2003 now references this document.

Take care in those extreeme outposts; some of the fluids used east of Euroland, particularly as used by the military, may attack the paint scheme (good de icing but poor anti icng). Also use the lowest holdover times or less, particularly if the fluid mix is unkown. Neat fluid may often be diluted in the can before you start mixing it with water.

[Shore Guy]

Also, you can try these links (hope you have high speed)

http://www1.faa.gov/avr/afs/afs200/afs220/hot2004.doc

http://icebox-esn.grc.nasa.gov/ext/documents/sae/GroundOps/FAAID4_Myers.pdf

http://cf.alpa.org/internet/alp/2000/nov00p15.htm

[DrSyn]

Ivan, check your PMs.

[Ice-bore]

Not aware of a definitive list of approved A/C de-/anti-icing fluids. However, Transport Canada do list the fluids that currently meet both the aerodynamic and anti-icing performance requirements, detailed in the latest versions of SAE AMS 1424 (Type I) and AMS 1428 (Type II and IV), in Table 5-1, 5-2 and 5-4 at:

http://206.222.76.45/tables/HOT_2003-04E.pdf

The majority of these fluids will also meet the materials compatability requirents, defined in the above specs. However, this aspect was not addressed by TC and confirmation that a fluid is fully approved would need to be obtained from the fluid manufacturer.

FCY-1A, a fully approved Type I fluid, is available in PEK and may also be available at other Station within China. Should the fluid in question be on the TC list, would suggest the holdover time tables published by the AEA (link provided by safetypee) be used.

In the event that the fluid does not meet/has not been tested to either of the above specs, it is most unlikely that it will have been approved by the A/C manufacturer for use on his aircraft.........

Should 'emergency' use of such a fluid be contemplated, would suggest that the user would need to establish a). that it is not a 'thickened' fluid (if 'thickened' unlikely to have been tested for aerodynamic performance, therefore what proof exists to guarantee that it will flow-off the critical surfaces prior to rotation?) b). the freezing point of the fluid mix used (must be at least 10 degrees C below the OAT) c). that during active freezing/frozen precipitation the de-icing operation can be carried out at or near the end of the active R/W, i.e. de-ice and go (holdover time generated by an 'unthickened' fluid is likely to be similar to that published for Type I fluid, i.e. minimal) d). that a 'post de-icing check' will be carried out by a competent person.