Australia to spend $1b on Global Hawk

[Wirraway]

AFP
Wednesday February 4, 3:37 PM AEDT

Australia to buy robot aircraft in 38 billion dollar defence upgrade

Australia is to spend up to one billion dollars (760 million US) on robot surveillance aircraft as part of a 10-year military upgrade to meet the threat of global terrorism and its responsibility to allies, particularly the United States.

The government has made a six-fold increase in funding for a squadron of Northrop Grumman Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) which would patrol Australia's borders, territorial waters and could be used further afield.

"The success of the aircraft such as Global Hawk in operations over both Iraq and Afghanistan have demonstrated the huge capacity bosst these assets can bring," Defence Minister Robert Hill said in unveiling the government's 50 billion dollar Defence Capability Plan for the next 10 years.

"The Global Hawk provides the air force and battlespace commanders with near real-time, high resolution intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance imagery."

Hill said the defence plan, the culmination of a 12-month review of the army, navy and airforce, would also see ageing tanks, frigates and fighters replaced by state-of-the-art hardware.

He said an unprecedented level of recent deployments by Australian forces, including participation in the "coalition of the willing" in Iraq, demonstrated that Australian forces were not equipped to face "new challenges".

"These include the threat of terrorism, concerns associated with the proliferation of weapons on mass destruction and the risk of failed states within our region," Hill said.

"The global situation has also brought our responsibilities, as an alliance partner of the United States, into sharper focus."

Australia was one of the staunchest allies of the US in its war against Iraq, sending more than 2,000 troops and personnel to the Gulf.

Australian military chief Major General Peter Cosgrove welcomed the government's decision to commit more funds to bring Australia's forces up to world standards.

He said the level of technology such as that used in the Global Hawk was being added to the military of other countries and Australia should not risk being left behind.

"Fifty billion dollars is the price we must pay to modernise against an uncertain future," Cosgrove told reporters.

"Terrorism has to be the number one threat because it reveals itself very grudgingly, if at all, and with great violence when it does."

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News.com.au

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,3600,318615,00.jpg

Global Hawk for Australia

The Government would spend up to $1 billion on advanced robot aircraft that can patrol the skies around Australia. He said the ADF envisaged acquiring a squadron of the Northrop Grumman Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

These vehicles could do maritime patrols, land surveillance, intelligence gathering and even help civil authorities with tasks such as bushfire detection and response.

"The success of aircraft such as Global Hawk in operations over both Iraq and Afghanistan have demonstrated the huge capacity boost these assets can bring," Senator Hill said.

"The Global Hawk provides the air force and battle space commanders with near real-time, high resolution intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance imagery.

"This capability will be a quantum leap forward for the ADF and the first phase is listed for decision in the next financial year."

Demonstrating its capabilities in 2001, a Global Hawk flew non-stop from California to Australia, a record for a pilotless aircraft.

Global Hawk is much bigger than other UAVs already in ADF service. Its 35m wingspan makes it bigger than a Boeing 737 and it can fly for 38 hours and cover 14,000 km.

Senator Hill said the latest version of Global Hawk was even better, with a greater fuel capacity and improved satellite control and communications.

The Government revealed the key elements of the DCP in November, including plans for new tanks and landing ships and for the RAAF's ageing F-111 strike bombers to be retired around 2010.

It is also envisaged that the RAAF will eventually retire its AP-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft with the job to be shared between a smaller number of new manned aircraft and Global Hawk.

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[Buster Hyman]

Nice one. As long as we get the capacity to react to the threats they detect.

[Pharcarnell]

So who's gonna "see and avoid" for these in our wonderfull new NAS world???? Or do they have total right of way, no exceptions?

[itchybum]

So how many UAVs do you get for 1 Beeyun dollars?

[pullock]

So we have paid the yanks one BILION dollars for a heap of big model aeroplanes - surely we could have developed our own for that and encouraged local industry - the technology behind them is nothing that we couldn't handle.

[Torres]

Yes, pullock, there was a time when Australia led the world with the G.A.F. Pika, and later the Jindivik.

Now we don't even try it seems. :(

What a million megabucks would do injected into our Aussie aviation industry.......... :ugh:

[oicur12]

Something tells me that being deputy sherriff in the "coalition of the killing" leaves us little pawns with little choice but to buy mega bucks worth of flash new gadgets from the US.

[Wirraway]

So we have paid the yanks one BILION dollars for a heap of big model aeroplanes - surely we could have developed our own for that and encouraged local industry - the technology behind them is nothing that we couldn't handle.

Here is a worthwhile primer to inform you just what a Global Hawk is
capable of:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/global/


Wirraway

[pullock]

Wirraway,

I know that some of the equipment in this UAV sounds impressive, but it's all off the shelf military gear.


For the aircraft - desigmed on basic aerodynamic principal which never change. For the donk - nothing we can't buy.

Navigation - it's a remotely controlled FMS coupled to a couple of IRS, and GPS. Whacko - nothing special.

Comms - Satellite and direct - once again nothing new.

Sensors - infra red, optical and synthetic apature radar - nothing new.

Wait - you guessed it - just a few years ago Australia was a world leader in development of synthetic apature radar.............

It's all pretty basic stuff resulting from integrating off the shelf stuff. If $1B was spent here developing same we just might even come up with more typically Australian innovation that would be beneficial, and maybe even develop overseas markets for AUS.

OICUR12 makes the point most aptly - Australia as a suckerfish to the US is probably required to make such purchases. Funny how this has happened during the FTA talks - I am sure it has been a bargaining chip.

Short term gain for long term pain - as one of my lecturers so aptly put it - selling the horse to buy a new saddle...........

[ftrplt]

I know that some of the equipment in this UAV sounds impressive, but it's all off the shelf military gear.

Well that makes it all pretty simple then.


For the aircraft - desigmed on basic aerodynamic principal which never change. For the donk - nothing we can't buy.

Hi altitude long range aerodynamics - yeah Im sure Australian industry is all over that one.


Navigation - it's a remotely controlled FMS coupled to a couple of IRS, and GPS. Whacko - nothing special.

That also needs to be secure and anti-jammable and extremely redundant. If it has taken the Yanks 10 years to get it to a sound level, Im sure Aus could do it in something less than 50yrs


Sensors - infra red, optical and synthetic apature radar - nothing new...........Wait - you guessed it - just a few years ago Australia was a world leader in development of synthetic apature radar.............

Says who, Australian Aviation and Carlo Kopp?? I guess the 10+ years developing J-Stars and the like have nothing in common with any of the technology in G-Hawk? A little more capable than the DSTO black boxes flying around in whatever its in these days.

Oh, and the small issue of data integration into C3 systems :confused:


It's all pretty basic stuff resulting from integrating off the shelf stuff. If $1B was spent here developing same we just might even come up with more typically Australian innovation that would be beneficial, and maybe even develop overseas markets for AUS.

For 1 billion we would not even come close to 1 operational platform. I guess the 'more typical' Australian product would be a ripper - minus a few wars over the last 10 years to aid development and our amazing test and development facilities we have in this country.


OICUR12 makes the point most aptly - Australia as a suckerfish to the US is probably required to make such purchases. Funny how this has happened during the FTA talks - I am sure it has been a bargaining chip.

Cynicism for the sake of it. Global Hawk will be the best force multiplier the ADF will ever purchase and will benefit all three services as well as the security and civil communities. Open your eyes just a little bit to the potential uses of this platform.



I guess you are a fan of the Nomad? Any thoughts on Kuringa then?

[Cougar]

Pharcarnell,
I don't think NAS will be an issue at 65,000 feet!! As for arrivals and departures, i am sure they will come up with some decent SOP's so that the GHawk won't prang into your bugsmasher on arrival or departure.

[Dark Knight]

6 – 10 Global Hawks will provide surveillance capability, security and civil benefits far beyond the dreamtime of a Labor 3 ship, $800 million dollar Coastguard.

Backed up by our excellent Defence Services particularly the professional troops in our Navy whose jobs is already to Serve and Protect including protection of our borders at least we are seeing some decent, forward, constructive and viable planning.

[currawong]

As long as it is used as a force multiplier, not a force replacement.

Yes, it can do the job of several P3's.

Is it to be used as well as or instead of?

How accurate is it at dropping life rafts?

What are the ramifications for operations such as Surveillance Australia?

Can it do a good beat up like the manned ones?:E

Be good if it is used to plug the gaps. Bad if it is to put many good people out of work.

[Capt Nomad]

Currawong;
Definitely on the mark re
What will it do to Survelliance Australia?
I guess they won't be here for a fair while yet thou.

[pullock]

ftrplt,

Yours is just the atitude that keeps Australians a nation of proletariats.

Think small and I will promise you that you will stay small.

Accepting everything that you get told without critical analysis is another great attribute of the eternal proletariat - hope u like meidcoraty mate !

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Pullock:

You can't seriously believe we could develop, test and build 10 UAV's that have the same capabilities as a Global Hawk? Also given your attitude we wouldn't be buying off the shelf foreign equipment to kit our own UAV out with.

Since you don't like us all being "unskilled people" perhaps you should read up on some economics. Have a look at Comparative Advantage and economies of scale. While your at it take a look at the statistics on the development of C3I related combat systems. Around 98% of them are developed overbudget, late, or not meeting the customers requirements. Buying an existing system that meets your requirements is cheaper.

I'm sure Australia could develop and build one , but I'm equally sure you'd be complaining when they raised your tax to pay for it.
I can't see the point in spending billions of EXTRA dollars just so during a pi$$ing contest you can say look what we built. Take a look at previous Australian purchases. The higher the Australian involvement the higher the cost.



PAF :hmm:

[Gibbo]

Pullock,

I am Australian and I do not think that I am a proletariat, nor do I consider that an accurate description of other Australians (particularly when considering that one of the meaning you may chose to use is "plebs".)

Maybe you have an image and/or identity crisis?;)

[Airspeed Ambassador]

As a pilot once employed on the Coastwatch contract for a number of years, I am pleased to see a government who is prepared to throw some serious dollars in upgrading the country's surveillance capabilities. But the upgrade should not stop there. The current Coastwatch program is totally under funded and has a level of resources (that is aircraft, surface vessels and personnel) that is not capable of providing the level of continuous surveillance and response capability this country deserves. Given the enormous amount of coastline and sea area to the north (where the greatest threat lies) our current "Coastwatch" is not much more than a token effort. The Customs staff responsible for allocating the limited resources do an admirable job with so little, but the average Australian would be shocked to know how vulnerable we are. What will it take to make the government of the day wake up and take this seriously? Probably a small wooden vessel sailing into Darwin harbour undetected (as one did in '95) with a cargo of refugees and a dozen "bird flu" carrying chickens.

The Global Hawk is only a small (though very expensive) part of the solution. Until there is some real vote pulling power in this issue, I suspect little will change when the next Coastwatch contract begins.

AA

[ftrplt]

Accepting everything that you get told without critical analysis is another great attribute of the eternal proletariat - hope u like meidcoraty mate !


I dont know, what is meidcoraty????


Why do you assume I have accepted everything I have been told without critical analysis; maybe I have had some exposure to the capability??

What I cant see is a need for a tank replacement, but thats another issue!


Airspeed Ambassador, good sentiments but there are some things in life that just cant be done to 100% desired effectiveness; Coastal surveillance is just one of those things. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Airspeed Ambassador]

ftrplt

IMHO the effectiveness of our coastwatch program falls well short of what it SHOULD BE not what it COULD BE. 100% effectiveness is not achievable on anyones budget.

My point was that if we are going to spend billions on a squadron of Global Hawks we should look at the funding levels / capability of the other aspects of our maritime surveillance.