LTN & STN snow closed

[LTNman]

Luton Snow closed as from 16:30 for at least 2 hours. Stansted also snow closed

Both Luton and Stansted were closed within 10 minutes of each other. Heavy snow at Luton with Luton closing just 10 minutes after the first flakes. Snow heading south.

[The Highlander]

Will the Management at Luton never LEARN its not even the 2nd ,3rd or 4th time this has happened.
I also seem to remember that this was forecast to happen (the snow that is) on or before Friday of last week.
I wonder what the excuse will be this time.

Highlander

[LTNman]

Runway was de-iced but it is snowing too hard to have any effect. They are using blades on the runway as the fire service are reporting that there is too much snow for the brushes.

[easyprison]

The Germans and Scandinavians must laugh their socks off at these idiots running UK airports. Closed for 2 hours??

A sprinkling of snow- enough to bring Bog town Airport to a stand still (Luton).

[LTNman]

It has stopped now ( 17:15 ) lets see how long it takes to open Luton again. Snow has a depth of 9 cm on the concrete

[Red Four]

I know, lets build another runway at Stansted. It's the most suitable place for one!! Never gets snow or fog problems.

[teachin]

Why is this country so pathetic when it comes to extreme weather? Look at Prague in the winter months, always under snow but operates a constant service, Moscow, always open. We get some snow and close, PATHETIC!

[MAN777]

I think BHX and EMA also having problems at moment

[WHBM]

Well here close to London City in 10 minutes it went from raining and +5C to heavy snow, thunderstorm, 0C, and the runway closed and ops crews going flat out (well done guys, I'm in the warm). And cars are getting stuck on the road outside. So it's quite a snowstorm.

Teachin: bear in mind the airports you quote have multiple runways so they can clear them alternately. Single runway you can't do that. And as the current base is 100m and vis 300m they would likely be below minima anyway.

[LTNman]

Radio is reporting that Luton is gridlocked due to its hills and it is snowing again

[MAN777]

LHR single runway Ops (1 hr holding) and BHX full.

[LTNman]

Easyjet have cancelled all flights from Luton and Stansted until tomorrow

[EGCC]

BA have cancelled all domestic flights from LHR and LGW now, as well as some european flights.

[transwede]

Trouble up North too!!

NCL was closed earlier today with BA cancelled flights, Air Wales going to LBA aswell as Eastern Airways. Easyjet were circling overhead and KLM diverted 2 a/c to EDI.

Airport is near closing again, snow falling and things holding overhead!!:mad:

I cannot believe, when the snow is fairly small amounts that the UK Airports grind to a halt!! :{

[DeepC]

As someone else has stated on PPRuNe....

The type of snow we get in the UK is generally of a different type to more snow prone countries. It is typically very wet snow. Not blowable, brushes sometimes do more harm than good, salting has a very limited effect when it snows as hard as it did this afternoon in the Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire and Essex regions. Very heavy, very wet snow.

Not the sort that has very good skid resitance when compact either so not an option to operate on compacted snow.

Typically we only get snow when it is within between about +2 and -5 degrees. Any colder and we don't often get snow. The problem comes when you have snow around sunset when the snow lays quickly but then the temperature drops lower and the slush freezes. Then it is very dificult to clear.

Having said that, Luton is a bit of a snow magnet. Sitting on top of a hill it gets inches more than the surrounding areas.

Just some thoughts and mitigation...

DeepC

[Britannia]

NCL was closed for about 20min's half hour ago, now the EZY Copenhagen flight has been cancelled.

[almost professional]

do not know how things went at NEMA today-thankfully day off!-but the problem these days tends to be that we are not allowed to use Mu/meter-griptester reports in wet snow-so we can not give braking actions, in effect ANY wet snow/slush means clearing operations must start and that means closures that always take longer than anticipated-in the past we may have been able to operate for a bit longer and got some traffic in or out but that avenue has now been closed- and with the best will in the world even with advance warning the first snow needs a learning curve! believe you me it is as frustrating not being able to open up for movements as it is sitting waiting for the word-and the poor sods in the snow clearing vehicles are also doing their best

[LTNman]

Luton hoping to open at 22:00 after 5.5 hours closed. Temperature -4C - 13C with the wind chill

[Buster the Bear]

WOW, not for a good while have we seen such blizzards. The heavens opened and within 15 min 2 inch+ of snow.

No airport could stay open, it reminded me of the winters of 19962/3 and 1969/70, only they lasted longer than 2 hours.

Off to bury the polar bears.......

[737James]

NEMA coped very well last night considering the amount of aircraft and passengers using it i read on here 58 extra movements although it was a bit chaotic in the terminal later on with all the passengers waiting for the coaches to arrive.
Big congratulations to everybody involved NEMA did the right thing they closed at the first sign of snow but then managed to stay open rest of the day well done Everybody.:O

[JW411]

teachin:

"Look at Prague in the winter months, always under snow but operates a constant service".

Bullsh*t - Prague airport was snow-closed for over 2 hours a couple of weeks ago and I had to divert.

[aviaraptor]

Similarly Geneva this month also. Before Xmas, NE seaboard US also effected.

Wx happens and we pilots are a sensitive lot. We don't do snow. Each mm of snow and x-wind reduces aircraft performance and I for one don't want to be the next 1958 MUC.

With powdery drifting snow and x-wind conditions the only place not swept is the grass and that's where drifting snow comes from after it's stopped snowing.

The reason the UK is cr@p at snow management is that snow events are unprecitable. Yesterday UK Met forecast a 11.00 drop in the SE UK. When it came it was a band of rain, thunder, lightning and 70mm snow in 20 mins.

In cold places, the wx is more stable and predictable. In moist/damp/grobbly wx like the UK has all year round you don't know what's coming in the next 4 hours. Remember Michael Fish in 1987 - " I can aauure the lady from XXXX who rang in to say that there is a Hurricane on the way that she need not worry".... Oh dear.

[Bealzebub]

He was right there wasn't a hurricane ! The winds that arrived had the same effect though and it was clearly a classic understatement.
As others have said the UK simply isn't affected by snow and ice to the extent that every airport should be geared up to deal with it. Every now and again that policy will cause some disruption but so be it. In many parts of the world, snow and ice is such a prevelant feature that the airport can only feasibly operate the majority of the time if the necessary investment is made.

[eurostar builder]

Bournemouth had 15 diversions before the runway way closed with snow which included

Ryanair
EasyJet
GB
BA
KLM

The airport stayed open 24hours and upto 400 passengers spent the night there.

Somebody also used the Cash Point too.

[hasta lueGO]

:D MUCH LAUGHTER @ Bournemouth's cash machine - bet they wish they'd never advertised it's arrival!!!

[bacardi walla]

Spare a micro-thought for the guys and gals on the ground. Did they manage their shift change or did they work right through. I suspect people coming into work at say 1900 had a tough time getting in. Passengers seem to forget about the people behind the scenes who also have to get places - i.e. to work !!

[LTNman]

It took me 45 minutes to drive from Halcyon House, which for those who are a little unfamiliar with Luton is by Britannia’s 767 hangar to the bottom of the hill on the approach road, say around half a mile. Walking the other way were waves of passengers dragging suitcases up the hill from the railway station due to the shuttle busses being caught up in the congestion and this was at 11.30 the following day some 18 hours after the snow had fallen.

[CAP670]

LTNman's comments about the road conditions at Luton the following day are quite correct: but the villain isn't the airport operator TBI but the local council (Luton Borough) which is arguably, one of the most inefficient and ineffective local authorities in the south of England. Public roads are the responsibility of the Council - not the airport operator.

Whilst on the subject, Luton was NOT the only airport to become SNOCLO - BHX, LGW & STN to name just three, were also closed.

The location of Luton on top of a hill - as are Biggin Hill, Bristol and Leeds - also East Mids (310') - is a geographic fact of life and not the fault of TBI.

The fact that the local road system has not been substantially improved over the last 10 years (just minor lane adjustments, etc) is entirely down to the local council (yes, once again...) and the DfT (which does however, seem able to spend vast sums of public money on linking STN with the M11).

Luton's not perfect - but a significant impediment to Luton's improvement and progress is the local council and it's 1970s timewarped councillors and officials; TBI may not be perfect, but it has invested considerable sums in improvements and continues to do so, despite the operating concession which is probably the most uncommercial inflexible contractual arrangement that could ever be conceived (which is probably why no other local authority airport in the UK has gone down this road).

Give Luton a break guys - it's not all bad and TBI is doing its best.


;)

[Buster the Bear]

My understanding was that the roads locally to Luton had been gritted, but the sheer volume of the snow that fell during the 2 hour period in question prevented the grit from working, coupled to this, all the office workers in the area left work early choking the already lethal roads. Remember, this happened around 4pm.

As a result, the snow clearing/gritting Lorries were also stuck in the horrible queues, totally unable to help. The roads therefore became covered with solid, compacted ice. The temp dropped to -4, below which the grit/salt does not work efficiently? Believe me, I was outside in it for 10 min and my brown fur resembled a white polar bears!

[LTNman]

CAP 670

After several false starts the new dual carriageway to the Ibis hotel at Luton Airport from Capability Green will be started this year. When complete it will be dual carriageway all the way to the M1

[CAP670]

LTNman

The roads also need to be improved towards the A1(M) - you can't operate a major airport handling 7M PPA + if some of the punters still have to drive in via a single-lane congested road that backs up for miles at peak times (the A505) - but then in 1972, Luton Borough Council didn't see the need to dual carriageway the road; neither did the County Council. And the deadbeat councillors and officials still don't!

As I said, Luton's not all bad - just its access roads.

By the way, being privately run, at least Luton's owners TBI can continue to offer incentives to the likes of RYR without falling foul of the EC. Unfortunately, the concession deal that was struck with Luton Council makes it virtually impossible to get the price down to a competitive level against cross-subsidised Stansted. So the Council has effectively f***ed this up as well.

No wonder unemployment in the area is well above the average for the region...

It makes you want to:

:yuk:

[LTNman]

It all depends what side of the fence you sit on. From the councils point of view they have off loaded the airport for 30 years. They will get back an airport that will have been heavily invested in at no cost to the council and not only that will also earn the council a nice little income in passenger fees. TBI agreed to take on the lease of the airport with their eyes open and I don’t think I have heard them complain.

As for the road links to the A1 the government are proposing to continue the dual carriageway from the Ibis to a point between Luton and Hitchin on the A505 with the road passing under the airport.